r/TheMallWorld | Why Thousands of People Dream of the Same Place | A Reddit Deep Dive (Ep 382)

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If you've been there in your dreams, you're not alone.

I encounter a classroom.

So many people have been to the classroom. [gasps]

Are you [ __ ] kidding me?

No, I'm very

I just got full body chills.

Today we are talking about the very real liinal space that thousands of people have all visited called Mall World. Yeah.

Very spooky.

Hi. Hello. This is Two Girls, One Ghost. Two Girls, One Ghost. We are your ghostesses. That is Curran. I'm Sabrina. And I'm very excited about today's episode because I had never heard of it, but a lot of people have not only heard of it, but been here.

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I'm very excited, too. This is very back roomsesque.

have you been to mall world?!

Very. So, let's just all real quick close our eyes.

Okay.

Unless you're driving. Me, too.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You You You close eyes closed.

Unless you're driving. Keep your eyes open.

I feel weird. I feel uncomfortable.

I'm going to ask you to look into your brain. dig into that conscious and subconscious and maybe into the universal consciousness. I want you to think about a mall. Not a specific mall, but just like the vibe of a mall. The hum Keep your eyes closed. No cheating.

I want to look at you.

Look at me in a minute. Okay.

The hum of fluorescent lights, marble floors, slightly humid air with a mix of Ante's pretzels oddly combined with the smell of department store perfume. The cinnamon pretzels. So good. Long halls, escalators, food court. The way that malls kind of transcend time. That wide open atrium a lot of times with a little fountain at the bottom. But here's the

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thing. As you're picturing this, it's empty. There's no families running around running to Build-A-Bear. No guys lurking outside of Victoria's Secrets. No middle schoolers loitering around in their Etnne sneakers.

A flashback. [laughter] In fact, even the stores themselves are empty, vacant spaces. And then when you step on the escalator, you realize there's no end to it. It just keeps going up and up and up. Does any of this sound familiar? You can open your eyes now. Have you seen this before? Have you witnessed this place? Are you screaming, "Oh my god, Sabrina, how do you know I dream of this place?" Maybe because if you've been there in your dreams, you're not alone. Thousands of people all over the world, complete strangers to one another, have all visited this place called Mall World.

I never have.

Me neither. That was the hardest thing about writing this episode is like because I've never been there, it's hard

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to describe it,

right? And like a lot of the images that people have either drawn or generated are AI generated and the ones that are drawn are more like maps. But it's like anyway

well and I think it's confusing to people who have gone in a before. And also the thing about mall world is like mall world is just one place that people dream about. There are other worlds out there and other places that a lot of people

but it's all connected. So it's mall world isn't just one place.

There's tunnels. Oh, I'm so curious. Okay. because I do have a reoccurring dream of a particular place, but it's like

what is it

down?

Is it the tunnels?

It's in a tunnel.

We're going to briefly talk about the tunnels.

We'll see.

Okay.

It's like a tunnel, but it's also the hallway and then it brings you to

We're going to talk about that very briefly.

Oh, I wonder if I've been to like a tiny little branch.

You need to go on the mall world Reddit and look this up.

Okay.

Because that's I mean, we'll get there, but like Mall World. Yes, it's called

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Mall World, but it's not just a mall.

Yeah. Like I encounter a classroom.

So many people have been to the classroom. [gasps]

Are you [ __ ] kidding me?

No, I'm very scared.

I just got full body chills. I'm actually scared. What?

Okay, we're going to get there later, but we're not going to go in detail on the school. But yeah, there's a school. I don't know the specifics.

Okay,

but there's a map. So, we'll look at the map. Okay, but before we get to that, let's slow down. Let's go start with the beginning. M world is a place that doesn't exist in our real reality, but somehow yet it does. A place that strangers from all over the world have visited in their sleep. A place that has its own rules, its own geography, so it's beyond a small world and its own unsettling experiences. Thousands of people have convened on Reddit to discuss what this place could be. They've tried to map it out. They've tried to look for exit. Spoiler. There is really no exit. No way.

Which is why it's kind of Yeah. It's like a whole other world. The back

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roomsish.

Just with that intro, are you intrigued? Did we pickle Whoa.

Did we pickle you?

Did we pickle your tickle? [laughter]

I meant to say tickle your pickle, which is also inappropriate, but [laughter] did we pickle your tickle?

Wait, no. I want to see a little jar with tickles being pickled. [laughter]

A little vinegar. How do you even depict tickles?

Little fingers. I don't know.

Little fingers glistening

and with giggles. [laughter]

How creepy.

And then it says like pickled tickles.

I'd be like I'm on LSD right now if I saw that.

That's how people probably feel in mall world. So yeah, today we are talking about mall world, the very real liinal space that might predate the back rooms or might be the world within that the back rooms exist.

Oh yeah, maybe the back rooms. The back rooms is an office space. So, it's like

that could be a whole another spot.

I can't wait till we get to the maps cuz we're going to have we're going to have

Is the mall the central? Is that like what people believe to be the central

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place?

They don't know.

Okay, [gasps and laughter] this is so freaked out. I'm even more freaked out now knowing that like maybe I did end up somewhere. for if you you have to look at the threads because people have seen the school and

I've never seen anything outside of just like the mall and people saying like oh there's other places you can go

and you people talk about like I've seen people talk about like a movie theater

there's a movie theater there's an amusement park there's a school I mean we'll get there but no matter what this is the thing that's so creepy is it's not like oh I've been to mall world and I see the mall that looks like this way and you've been to mall world and it looks different no it's people who are complete strangers seeing the same place with the same exact format, layout, like the same tree, the same.

Is there any outside area?

Mhm.

Is there water?

Mhm.

Cuz there's one other place that I go to a lot, too. Oh, [ __ ] [laughter]

welcome to mall world

Okay. So, this is the major question is what is M World? And I can't promise we're going to give you a satisfying

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answer. I don't think there's any answer whatsoever really. No one knows. And I guess that's the same thing about like the back rooms and ghosts in general and life. We don't know.

But because of this confusion and because of this like curiosity and wanting to understand, back in September of 2021, a subreddit was created called the mall world, specifically the mall world. There is another one, mall world, but it's not really used.

The user who created the sub forum simply asked, "Have you been to one of these common dream locations?" And pretty much overnight, the internet exploded. It has more than 25,000 members. I thought I had seen because like when you go to the Reddit thing, I thought I saw it had 40,000 members, like over 40,000, but then I couldn't find the number anymore. So, Oh,

but they have

a lot of people though.

A lot of people. And like there's like 200 posts weekly, thousands of like active visitors weekly. It's so hard. That's the thing. It's like the second you

you'll see my thought process as I was researching this cuz it would be like, "Oh, what is my world?" And then I would

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start looking and then I would see something. I'd be like, "Wait, what is this?" And then I would go down rabbit holes and there are thousands of posts about every question you have. [laughter]

Yeah. How did you even write this episode? I feel like I'd be so lost.

I mean, I think that's the point is it's so confusing and I really do. There's no answers. There are so many people who have been to Mworld. They had no idea what it was, let alone that it was a place other people were also visiting in their dreams. And now when the subreddit was created, everyone was like blown away cuz they were like, I thought this was just a random dream I was having in a place that I kept going to. But now the fact that thousands of people who I've never met,

that's also what I thought.

Or going here,

we'll see if I if at the end of this I feel like I might have been here or if I have my own world.

I think you're in the world. [laughter] Yeah.

I didn't know they had outdoor spaces.

Yeah. Again, complete strangers have independently visited the same place and described it in impossibly matching and specific detail. Steep escalators,

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looping corridors, the same flickering dead zones on upper floors, the same food court that feels like the center of the universe, the same exits that like when you go out the door actually like loops you back into the inside of the mall.

Mhm.

And it reminds me so much I mean same with back rooms like the severance offices.

Yeah. people recognize

before you get to the out before you get to the classroom and the outdoor spot. I want to say what I have seen.

Okay.

And then we'll see if it matches or not.

I won't get to that for a little bit, but I'll tell you when I do. Yeah. And I also don't have like deep descriptions of them.

A part of me is like I wasn't there. I don't want to.

No, you for sure. Like 100%. I know. I feel like I don't even know, but I feel like Yes, you have.

Okay.

And we can we can look it up on the Reddit to see what people say.

Yeah. I want to see people's like pictures, too.

No. Like so people see the same markers and people have seen other visitors or dreamers there. And I couldn't find specific stories about this, but there was like similar to the gateway tapes where someone had dreamed of someone

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they had never seen before and had an interaction with them and then many years later through the Reddit forum was like actually connected with that person in real life and was like, "Wait, I met you in the dream world of mall world and I don't know you in real life." Yes. Creepy. So again, when the subreddit was created, countless people came flocking and experienced that same sense of shock that this mall they had dreamt of for years and had never told a single soul about cuz they thought it was just a dream was not really just a dream.

description of mall world

Obviously, we're going to talk about the theories and we'll get to the idea of like universal consciousness and the question of is this all like a weird video game? Are we all coded?

But let's talk about the specifics of M World first. This is and thanks to the subreddit. It's also an ever evolving story and place. So, we don't have all the answers and it almost seems like over the years as people talk about it and explore it, the world is expanding because are we just made of code and

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we're in a simulation and we're unknowingly building an everexpanding place that our consciousness goes to and right now we're we are currently in a version of a mall world,

right? Like did a previous versions of humans build the world that we're living in right now and now we're building a world that humans will eventually live in?

That's gonna get woo. Okay. But based on descriptions, this mall that people are seeing has the same architecture, same details that defy physics and logic. If there's a hallway with an atrium on the right and then a little like post on the left, it's like that for everyone. There's like one person who described going out a door that actually did lead to the outdoors and there was like a tree on the right hand side and multiple people were like that's the exact same door I went out. That's the exact same placement of the tree that I saw. Like it's the same for everyone. But here's the thing that kind of gave me the most eerie feeling about all of this is that everyone describes feeling normal in

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their dreams while they're at mall world. But the second they wake up, that is when panic and fear kicks in. So it's not like a normal nightmare. When you're having a nightmare, you're scared because you're scared.

You're like, "Oh god, okay, that was just nightmare." You start to calm down.

No. People will be in mall world and be like almost in a trance moving through it and then when they wake up and think about what they just dreamt they realize how terrifying it was and how unsettling everything about mall world is but they weren't feeling it in the moment

which feels really creepy. Like I feel like it's

I feel that exact same way about the classroom. I don't necessarily feel that way about when I've been outside. It's been weird. I'm pulling up Reddit right now

and like a bit unsettling. But there's also a really beautiful apartment complex by the water that I've been pretty focused on trying to um get into.

I need to look them up [laughter]

when I go there cuz they have waterfront

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spots. And I was like, God, if I could just get an apartment unit in there, I could kayak and paddle board every day. I feel like my classroom experience was probably that. I'm not sure if my outdoor experience was okay. Well, there's this thing called scary town. It's a trap. So maybe don't go to those apartments.

But they're so pretty.

There's al Oh, there's nice houses. Maybe that's where you're looking. Is there water by

town? There's town houses and they're right on the water and it's off to the right.

So mall.

Wait,

nice houses, water.

Oh,

but I don't know where the school is.

Oh, school's over here.

This map does not look like my outdoor experience.

Okay, again, we'll get back to the outside in a little bit, but back into the interior of M World. The escalators are one of the most prominent features of Mlew World. They seem normal, but then the moment you step onto it, you realize they're absurdly steep. They also like move at unnatural angles and like cut through the mall in different ways, but they just like keep going up and up and up and up and up and seem

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like they have no end in sight.

People do get off of them.

But this is why it's like,

well, do you get to choose where you get off or do you just get dropped where you get dropped?

Right. Is it like the rotating stairwells in Harry Potter? Yeah.

I don't know. Again, this is what's hard about this episode because I've never been there. I've never seen it myself. Like, I was writing these descriptions based on other people's descriptions,

right?

But they seem to defy gravity. And that's like one of the common things about my world is nothing

works with the physics of our world that we understand.

There was one picture that I feel like was so trippy to look at. So this is like how the mall like different windows and walls.

Oh yeah. Very disorienting.

Right. But like

it's very Alice in Wonderland where

Yeah.

It's almost like Alice in Wonderland syndrome where it's like where I have been diagnosed with that before from our listeners when I was describing like this weird vertigo like slow down and climb and everything's bigger and louder

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and like muffled and like Yeah. It's

but it's like

it's almost like when you're on the verge of fainting and the world starts shifting.

Yeah. Well, cuz it's like at first it looks really normal and then like the deeper you go into mall world and the more you explore and like try to put it together after the fact, you realize that like none of it actually made sense.

Mhm.

Also, apparently there are elevators, but everyone warns to not get into the elevators. Like horrible things happen or like there's no control e and sometimes they won't work, but other times like they'll take you to places that you don't want to go. Is it mostly vacant when people are in there or is it

There's different experiences.

Okay. One user simply wrote about the escalators super steep. [ __ ] was nuts. And then thousands of people were like, "Oh my gosh, yes, they're terrifying." According to the responses, the higher you go on the escalator, the worse it gets. There are also stairs. And like a mall that does exist in our world, there are multiple floors in mall world. And the lower floors are often described as

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pristine, frozen in time, like a capsule of the '9s. People say the stores are closed, but merchandise remains inside as if they're simply closed for the evening.

So it's like ground floor, normalish.

Yeah.

Closed.

It's mall after hours.

Mall after hours. But maybe it's made that way to make it make you for a moment feel like you're somewhere like familiar and safe.

But as you travel upwards, that's when things really change. And the energy also shifts. The upper floors are abandoned. Like the stores are empty. There's no merchandise, nothing. Lights will flicker. It almost looks more than just empty. It looks abandoned and almost like apocalyptic is my understanding. Lights will flicker. It gives off major backroom vibes. It really feels like a liinal space with no end. And there's that like low hum that a lot of people describe. They say if I were in Waking Life and I heard that hum, my gut instinct would be to run. But when you're in mall world, you're in

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this like weird trance where after when you wake up, you're like that sound and that feeling I'm now reliving is horrifying.

Yeah.

But in the experience, you're just moving through it. The upper floors feel wrong, like places you should not be. And a lot of people have described the upper floors as if it's AI generated, but it's also difficult. And there's a whole thread on the subreddit about what to do about AI generated images because so many people because this is so confounding and there's nothing in the real world to actually relate it to people are using AI to try to like generate the image of what they're seeing.

Mhm.

But I guess it's like it makes sense if it defies physics. It kind of does feel like it's computerenerated,

right?

Getting around and getting out is not easy. It's as if it is made to keep you trapped and to keep you confused. All of the architecture loops. Stairwells sometimes lead in circles. Corridors loop back to where you started. Doors that seem like exits open back into the

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mall and there's seemingly no way out. There are a few people. And this is the thing that's so confusing about mall world and the outer world. Like even though we have maps, it doesn't seem like you can easily move through the space.

Yeah.

So it's like Yes. They all look so similar and maybe you can find a door that goes to a place but it doesn't make sense

and like maybe it doesn't present itself to everyone all the time and it almost feels like the mall is alive.

Well, we're trying to use our logic from what we know about our world which has physics.

So, you can't describe a world that doesn't follow our rules.

It's reminding me of Inception.

It's Oh my god, that's a perfect way to describe it. Which also it's like this idea of like computerenerated type of

right like a trippy

Yeah.

and you can fall down different layers and it's constantly moving and disorienting and how do you get out

and like rewriting itself.

There are a few people who have found a door that leads outside and again it

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seems to be the same door the people are that are finding this. But when they open it there's a terrifying blizzard and a parking lot that just goes on forever and ever and ever and there's no cars, no people, no road. And they all get this feeling when they're in mall world. They don't feel the fear. But if when they open that door, fear hits them.

And so they rather stay inside the mall than go face whatever goes is outside. And while there are no people outside, a lot of people do wander mall world without seeing any other person. But there are plenty of people who have seen other

people. And I say people in quotes because a lot of the occurrences are almost like this is how they describe them. People describe seeing other people that are very off. They're almost like mannequins. Like they only move when you're walking past them almost as if they're animatronic. It reminds me of House of Wax. You know how like they have the figurines that are like look like they're opening the curtain in the window,

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but it's just to make you think there are other people there,

right?

And it feels computerenerated. It's like a NPC. Is that what they're called? like games.

Yeah.

Where they're like meant to walk up to you to say something and then they freeze. Yeah. So again, common theme here is these people feel wrong.

And then there are people who have seemingly met in mall world like I was saying earlier who have like never met before and then like pieced it together. Also, this was reminiscent of the telepathy tapes where people who are able to lucid dream have like actively tried to meet up in mall world and find each other.

Do they succeed? Has anyone succeeded? I I I think so. I couldn't find really specific stories,

but you could spend years on this subreddit and still not figure it out.

Wow.

Which so then it reminds me of like the hill in telepathy tapes or just like in gateway tapes like being in this like meditative place where you can connect with the consciousness of others.

Safe to say M world is absolutely confounding. But I figured the best way to really talk about it and try to paint

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the picture more was to give you real experiences from people.

Okay, great.

So, I found accounts on the Reddit threads.

Also, you know how sometimes when people talk about like lucid dreaming and being in the dream world and going up and talking to people and like saying, "I know I'm dreaming," or whatever, that there's a lot of danger in that. Is there also danger associated with actively and openly talking about mall world or trying to like understand the space and manipulate it? I don't know.

I think people are just so concerned about what mall world is and so many people are going there that I think there's more danger about being in mall world than there is about talking about it.

Okay.

Is my understanding.

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Reddit stories - real life experiences

So, I'm going to preface this again that there are at least 30,000 members in this subreddit. Oh, I'll correct myself. 7,300 visit on a weekly basis, meaning there are thousands of posts. Impossible to read them all. But this one post and

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photo described the subreddit perfectly. [laughter] Oh my gosh, that's so good.

It's like, what's that guy's name? And he's like got like the board behind him. He looks kind of crazy.

Charlie day.

Yeah. And it says

or is that his real name or is that the what he is in? It's always sunny in Philadelphia.

It's the classic like the guy Charlie who's

crazy eyes and it says how how it feels to tell people about the dreams. [laughter]

So that's a good preface for this.

So my biggest question was how do you get to mall world? And a lot of people asked that same question and a lot of people responded to those questions. Most people it seems like the consensus was I never asked to be there. I would not recommend trying to get there. Everyone's like I didn't ask. I just ended up here and it's horrifying. I would never ever want to go there,

so why the hell are you trying to get there?

One person joked or theorized that aliens have to bring you there.

Interesting.

There are also people who don't hate mall world, but that I will say that's

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like maybe a fraction of the people on here. Sunny Jim 333 responded to this question four months ago and they said they think about the mall and the places they've been inside there in the past as they're trying to fall asleep and that's how they try to get to mall world.

I can't imagine actively trying to go back there after you've experienced it and then wake up with the panic,

right? But I think some people don't have as horrifying as experiences. Mhm.

And also now that you realize there's this like subread of thousands of people who've also been, there's also a ton of people who are even more curious and wanting to go back to help map it out and like figure it out what this is.

Okay. Throwaway Mod 1989 wrote, "If you're dreaming and you see a sort of train station, that's one way in. [clears throat] There's a huge busy hub where dreamers come in and out either from their own dream space or as they start to dream/wake." And we've heard about the train station. Yeah,

especially in in relation to the paranormal.

It's so interesting because it's like

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there's so many places that I thought were just their own paranormal or like dream spot, but now from this episode, the theory is everything is connected.

Yep. That that is the theory. Okay.

That like gives me the heebie-jebies.

It's so creepy and it's so confusing. So, just to recap, the two schools of thought as to how to get to mall world are as follows. One, don't go there. Don't try. think of it, meditate on it, try to lucid dream, picture yourself there as you're trying to go to sleep, and set the intention of going. I did find one account that was very Narnia-esque, but it's so like it was like a couple sentences and then they didn't go into further detail,

but a user wrote like they were falling asleep basically and like astrally or dream world, whatever.

I entered through a coat closet that was in my dad's office in the basement of my parents house. I'd peel back the coats and walk into a long underground tunnel system that led me straight to mall world.

Which you've been to the underground tunnel system.

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Yeah.

But then this was the thing that's so unclear because this is the only account that I could find where it was like someone using a place to access it whereas almost everyone else was like I just wake up there like I just end up

that's how mine was. I always start on the like specifically for the classroom one. I'm on stairs,

right?

Walking down this like curved hallway.

Yeah.

And then I walk down the hallway. But the hallway is very What was Okay, so the creator of the OA, she wrote that other show.

What What was the other show called?

Murder of the End of the World.

Yeah, Murder at the End of the World.

Is that their show, too?

Yeah. Yeah, Murder at the End of the World.

I feel like that hotel that they were in almost reminds me a little bit of what I experienced like the colors because I when I walk down the hallway, it's extremely dark. There's just like a couple lights very sporadically at the top. So, it feels almost like a cave underground tunnel. And I know I'm underground cuz there's no windows and no lights, but it's almost like I can't tell if the walls on the side of me are painted or if it's actual like stone cuz

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it's really like a dark charcoal gray. And the very first time I was ever put there, someone was with me and told me to follow them and then ditched me after the first room. And then every time I've been there since and it's like I walk down and

is it a school or a classroom?

It's not a school. It's just it's a weird hallway.

Okay.

And I am a like my brain tells me that I should be freaked out but my body's pretty calm walking through.

Very similar with my world.

And then it's like I know I'm supposed to be looking for something but I have no clue what I'm looking for.

That is what some so many people describe.

Really?

I'm about to read an experience about it. But so that's the tunnels.

Okay. But then there's like a few doors.

I skip I think I skip a door or two and then to my left hand side I open it up and it's a classroom.

Okay. So it's a classroom.

Yeah. And I've only gotten the past the classroom once and I can't remember what I saw in the other behind the other door cuz I left the classroom and then I walked and the classroom's empty except

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one time I saw another woman there but we didn't speak and I felt like I was unwelcome in it.

Wait. Okay. This person wrote, this is from a year ago, strike alternative 487. I had a dream with a lot of people present, which usually doesn't happen, but in my dream, we were in a larger room and everyone was sitting at desks lined up like how you would be in a classroom. Everyone was an adult and the desks were larger than the ones you have in schools. Everyone seated and we all look up at the wall and there's a projection from a projector, I assume, but there's a countdown and after it hit zero, it was like starting a psychedelic trip. H

the projection then guided us down a light tunnel and I could feel the intensity in my stomach. I had this feeling that I wasn't supposed to be there. I'm trying to find like specific description.

It's [laughter] like the conflicting thing where it's like I feel like I'm not supposed to be there but I can't leave and I'm also looking for something. And I also have the feeling that like a lot of people don't know that this thing exists underneath and that there's you for sure been into like whatever the equ like into whatever

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world mall world is.

Yeah. But my classroom wasn't like for adults. It was definitely for young.

They're saying they never see other people in the like it's not common for them to see other people.

I feel like this classroom had a lot of like colors of the '9s, too. Like I feel like it was like a bright blue, a bright yellow, bright a bright red with like some of the objects and furniture. Like I would have guessed it's for elementary school.

Let's see.

I think like a 5-year-old goes to school here.

I doubt they're actually going there. I think it just exists. No, I hope that they don't go to school because it had weird vibes and no windows.

Okay. School, classroom, and hallways.

And felt wrong. And like in my mind when I was standing there, I dreamt of that place maybe three or four times. But like I think to myself like, "Oh god, what's happening to the kids that are here?" Cuz it feels weird.

So I'm like, "Ew, what am I experiencing? What am I seeing?" The hard thing is that we don't have like real pictures, you know, like

and I can't find specific descriptions because there's a lot of I guess there's different classrooms, but everyone describes a similar feeling where it

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just feels wrong.

Yeah.

Okay. So then adding to the like how to get to mall world, a lot of people were talking about things that they feel and notice when they end up in M World. So Local Monitor 2482 posted a year ago asking if anyone else had this feeling before entering M World. They wrote, "I've been noticing something weird before I enter M World." And again, I'm not conscious that I'm going to mall world, but I've started to piece together the pattern. But right before I get to mall world, my body will start to stiffen up like my hand, jaw, or something. Sometimes, but not always, I will hear and feel a deep vibration almost like a helicopter or something shaking. Also, right before I fully enter, sometimes I will catch faint mumbling, but I can never make out the words or who is speaking. Other times, I'll hear music or chanting, but again, no clear details. Like so many people respond to being like, "Yes, I feel that. I get tingling on my neck." Like things like this. And it reminds me so much of when I do the gateway tape meditations and I talk about like that oscillating fan feeling and sound

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as you're like leaving your body, which makes you think or makes me think that when accessing M world, it's not your physical body. It's not your physical being. It's like your soul and consciousness.

Ooh. I never had like the full like sensation and all that, but every single time I've been to any of these weird places, which there's another there's a third weird place.

What's the third one?

It's like a strip of like downtown buildings, which I don't think is that far from where the water is,

which is so weird because you're not walking from place to place, but you just conceptually know that they're close to each other.

I have no idea where the underground space is, but I know

this is it's wild.

Yeah. you just know I but before that dream happens like a a split second before I'm put into that space I go oh [ __ ] I'm going to one of the weird spots again like that's what I feel

and one of the big things that people on the subreddit have tried to do is like understand why certain people are going to mall world and like put together commonalities like there's been polls

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where it's like do you experience sleep paralysis have you had cancer like putting together trying to find any commonalities

how do you scientifically understand what's going on.

No idea.

You know what's weird that I never really put too much thought to until you were just saying some of the details is my my outdoor space. I'll describe it super briefly. The outdoor space, it's very hilly. It's like hills with ledges and people like do frisbee and hang out and have picnics and stuff up on that ledges and then there's kind of like a windy path that goes down. But I never start at the top of the windy path. I'm always like towards the bottom of the hill and then there's a boardwalk and on the left if you're facing the water there's um like a little pier and on the right is the apartments on the water and then

this is wild.

If you look out into the ocean or lake, I don't really know what it is. It's pretty overcast and spooky, but if you look behind you, it's pretty sunny on the hills. But every time I've ever tried to go up the hill towards where

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all the people are like playing on the ledge, I don't get very far. I like have a feeling I have to turn around. Same thing with the pier. There's some people on the pier and if I try to go towards the pier, it's almost like I'm a video player and I like can't go past this like thing. So, I really am kind of just hanging out at the bottom of the hill looking up at the sunny area

and being pushed towards the apartments or the town houses on the water. I'm trying to pull up the one map that's like the most. And then when I get dropped into the space that's the like downtown streets, it kind of almost reminds it gives like Sweeney Todd vibes. There's like smoke coming out of some of like the buildings and everything feels gray.

I love how you're like I'm very brief to describe it and you're literally describing the most thorough detail.

They're like creepy but everything's closed. You can't go in anything but it looks like they're open. And sometimes you'll encounter someone else walking down the street, but they ignore you or they give you a weird look. And I've only gotten onto two parallel streets

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before, but I've never been able to get very far past that. I don't remember how any of them end either. I feel like I'm just blipped out of it. That's I think what makes it so confusing.

But those are my three reoccurring like I go back there. While things are weird around me, I feel like my dream body and dream space is like I would be alive right now. Like time is slow and it's present and I'm experiencing every single second that [snorts] goes by. You know, cuz in dreams like sometimes you're like here and then you blip over here or whatever. That doesn't happen. I'm just I'm fully in my body the whole time.

How often do you dream of this world?

Underground probably four times. The

four times ever. Yeah.

Okay. Or four times a week. I'm [laughter] like

No, like four times ever.

Okay.

The downtown spot maybe up to six and probably Yeah. like under eight for the waterfront.

When's the last time you've dreamt about these places?

I thought waterfront was definitely the last time and it was sometime within the past year and a half. I only started

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getting them a few years ago.

See, this is like I don't understand why people are going. I don't No one understands it. So, here are a couple things. It does seem like a lot of people experience sleep paralysis or have experienced sleep paralysis who are able to go to mall world and they experience it kind of while going in and coming out of this dream space

like their physical body is experiencing par like paralysis but then their mind and like consciousness goes into dream state and then when they wake up they realize their body's in like a paralysis state. Nice groomer lady wrote that they do not enjoy mall world and they go through periods where they will wake up screaming and crying from their experiences.

Damn.

They also added that as they've been doing more therapy and digging into past trauma, more wings of mall world have opened up in their dreamscape.

Interesting.

Yeah, I don't understand what the correlation is, but that's something they're figuring out.

Multiple people have commented like these are the people who feel like M World itself isn't scary. They have said

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it's fine until you have to use the bathroom. And almost everyone agrees the bathroom. And I don't know if they've been in there necessarily or like what it is. It just is terrifying.

Mhm. Which again that's weird cuz it's like to have your own body's human body's urges like to know that you need to go to the bathroom.

Well, you also said you're not experiencing mall world or whatever this world is like a normal dream. like you're experiencing it like your present mind is there and body is there.

Um

time within my own body does not feel like dream time. It feels like normal waking time

cuz maybe this is not a dream. Humble Fly 1055 wrote and this was in response to like what is it like going to mall world? They wrote try eating something your body can't handle while you have a tripledigit fever. That's what it feels like to be in mall world.

It's sickening and disturbing. Ooh, I didn't want to experience that.

Multiple other users said it's very over overwhelming like they feel like they're

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trying to go somewhere or find something but can never find what they're looking for or get where they're going. And you just described that.

Yeah.

Many people, this is also a weird detail, report having their cell phones with them, but then like they can't get signal. [ __ ] Have you experienced that?

Yes. [laughter] I've never looked at my phone underground, but in the city and outside by the waterfront often. Never. weird detail

cuz I'm like I got to call someone cuz I'm totally lost.

I don't think I've ever had my phone in a dream.

What the [ __ ] I'm getting scared. [laughter]

I might start crying.

There are a lot of scary encounters with M World. One user, Mayan, posted 5 months ago that they have been stuck in M World for nearly 10 years.

They wrote, "Until I found this forum, I had no way to put a finger on it, but it's very interesting, and I'm glad I'm not alone in these dreams. It makes me feel less crazy. You all got me interested in attempting to map it out a bit and write descriptions for myself, but the more I read your experiences,

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the more I start to remember places that I've been to, which is happening to you right now.

Wait, so is mall world just like the term not just for the mall? It's for like the whole world.

Yeah, that's what Cuz it started with people talking about the mall, but then realizing it's actually this much bigger world.

Okay.

So, yeah, mall world is kind of a misleading term. It's like other world.

Yeah, cuz I'm like, oh, I'm glad I didn't go to mall world, but I went to some other branch, maybe.

No, you're you're in mall world. Yeah. Um, this user wrote, "I hate going. I've managed to escape for a while, but I always get dragged back in and I'm always in a state of panic. I'm always searching and I cannot find what I'm looking for. I cannot remember a time where Mworld ever felt safe for me." One user a year ago claimed that they were attacked in Maul World. They wrote, "Last night I was in mall world and bombs were being dropped on us. It felt so real and I've never experienced anything like this before. I was looking out a window and I could see a large bomb being dropped on this small city. Then bombs were being dropped closer and closer. I didn't know if I should leave or stay in the building. It felt like I was going to die at any second. A friend even ran back in the building to find me

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and my dog. Anyone else have a similar dream? And a lot of other people talked about like seemingly in the same day or time feeling like they were being attacked in Maul World. And it wasn't specifically the same way, but it was like something was happening in M World where people were feeling like they were

M World was under attack.

What is happening?

Right. someone explain this.

Or it feels almost like a video game, too, where like maybe someone is puppeteering and coding, but they're seeing the like computerized generated like we're the computers and we're figuring it out and they're like, "We have to distract them." It's like Hunger Games when they're like, "She's going too far to the perimeter. Like, we have to firebomb and get her back into the center."

Okay, another user reported.

Why am I getting dropped? I feel like I'm on the outskirts. [laughter] I mean, I focus a lot on the mall,

okay?

Because that's what I mall world started as. Another user reported that there are times when they're in their dreams at mall world and they'll be running and apparently that's happening in dream world, but their physical body is also

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acting it out. So, like their boyfriend who's sleeping in the bed next to them. This is what they wrote.

Oh, it's like a dog when they're like, "Yeah,

and you're like, "Oh, they're chasing squirrels."

My boyfriend says that I start headbutting and thrashing and going into a tiny ball and he can't like help me. Oh gosh.

And I'll also start talking and mumbling and it sounds angry like I'm fighting someone. Usually when I wake up I'll tell him all about the dream and the details. What's funny is sometimes when he experiences me headbutting and stuff I wasn't actually physically fighting in mall world but I was arguing and running. But like if you're laying in bed like

right

your body is moving the same way it looks like you're fighting. So then naturally when I read that story I was like okay well now I'm curious if people have reported getting in fights or running or being chased while in mall world and this like this was the point where I was like every question I have or every story I read leads to more questions and then I go down a deeper rabbit hole and of course the answer to my question was yes. One user said they were chased by what looked like a member of Men in Black who, according to them,

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it seemed like this man could hear their thoughts and intentions before they themselves even knew they were thinking those things. And every time

is this why people are wondering if aliens bring you here or something.

And then every time they thought they had lost the man in black who was chasing them, he'd pop up. So like you can't hide because they know your every move.

What is this? Another dreamer wrote that they've been followed in mall world and have even received creepy texts on their cell phone in this dreamscape as if someone is like stalking them. Like they'll get texts on their phone that say like I'm watching but they can't text out. Like like someone has the ability to send messages to their phone but their phone has no signal so they can't call for help. So we're not in control.

Damn. Also I never have an iPhone in the dream.

Interesting. What kind of phone is it?

It it's like a

flip phone.

Flip phone.

H another person

but like it doesn't feel like a flip phone. It feels like it has the capabilities of an iPhone, but but it's more of a flip.

That's so weird. [clears throat] Another user said that they were walking around Mall World and they they were on

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one of the lower floors, which usually are like the more benign ones, but they had again that feeling of like they needed to get somewhere. They needed help and like they were lost and they saw what they thought was a human inside a store. So, they walked into the store and they asked the person if they could use the phone in the store to call for help. The second they said call for help, the store owner like started attacking them.

You know what this is reminding me of? There's that movie and I can't remember was it Ryan Reynolds or something in it

where he's like he gains consciousness.

Yeah. Where he's the NPC in the video game that gains consciousness.

Free Guy.

Free Guy.

That was a good movie.

Oh yeah, cuz his name is Guy cuz he's just a

he's just a guy.

Just a guy in the background of the video game.

Okay. Then there was another post from a user, Weird John, also posted about a year ago about a shady group in mall world. And then like this opened a whole can of worms about like there's like this organization operating in mall world and it almost always seems like it's a man and a woman

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and multiple people have seen them. But this one person said, "Has anyone run into a shady group or coalition of people in Malt World? I had a dream where a bunch of people were in like a cafeteria hanging out and this group came over to me and started going through our belongings. I remember it feeling like they were associated with management or boss of some job. I got a bit defensive and ended up punching one of the guys in the face and I realized I screwed up. So, I apologized to who I felt was the boss and his wife. The boss was about 510 average build with thin straight shoulderlength blonde hair and had a lot of acne scars. his wife or whoever the woman was with him was a couple inches taller than him with dark brown or black hair and gave me like Carella Deville vibes. Later on the dream, I'm walking down an alleyway and I feel someone following me. I looked behind and it was this guy and a couple others. I ducked into a building and then ended up being chased by these men. And there were other parts of the dream

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as well that involved me having to do some type of test or exam that involved me riding around to different areas. And I don't know, but I had this feeling that I had wronged this group and now they were watching me. And I've seen them since that occasion. Like every time they go back to mall world, the group is watching them.

That's so creepy.

So many people responded to this saying, "Oh my gosh, I've experienced this couple or this duo." And one person was like, "That man can change shape and form. I've literally seen him go from being a baby to an 8-ft tall terrifying being to an 8-year-old kid. And everyone agreed that that woman was demonic or evil. And then there's also like a group of people who followed these two leaders that like often wear black cloaks. And so many people are having these similar experiences. So it's like slowly over time people are hoping to try to piece it together. But every experience that people start to detail and put and be like, "Yes, I experienced that too." makes it all the more confusing. [sighs and gasps]

When I'm in the downtown area, I have always been scared of running into

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someone I'm not supposed to run into.

I'm shook. I'm actually really

like I'm sorry you're going here and I'm sure this is like even more confusing.

I'm going to tell myself I'm not.

But I'm also glad that you have had these experiences cuz it helps like paint the picture of this

place. But I'm also like I need to go on the Reddit thread cuz I'm like did I or is this just my own little

I'm sure you have space. That's what so many people think.

There are two places in the mall part of mall world that are often talked about because they almost feel like meeting spots or like

gravitational centers. So, the first is

the food court

the food court. And based on all the descriptions and like images people have generated, it gives me like the food court in Stranger Things like kind of very like bright colors and retro.

Yeah. Apparently, the lighting in this area is very different than all other spots in mall world. Interesting. It has like a warmer light and it's consistently reported that people get the feeling that food court is the

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center of it all, the anchor,

like the sun to earth, like everything is

centered around

the food court. And it's a place that people use at a as a meeting spot. So, like if like the groups of people on the Reddit who can lucid dream and can control like where they end up

use the food court as their meeting spot. Like I'll meet you at the food court tonight in our dreams.

Well, why wouldn't you choose that if it feels warm and it's like the only spot that doesn't feel absolutely terrifying.

Revolve

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47:00

orders, shipping and returns make it so easy. I'm all about feeling good, looking good, and Revolve has styles that look elevated but effortless, and it really works for whatever is on the calendar. And there's inclusive sizing and new arrivals daily. So whether it's a big night, a wedding, a summer trip, or you just need something last minute that actually works, Revolve always has it. Go to revolve.com/tg to shop our faves and use code TG for 15% off your first order. Fast shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That's revolve.comtga. You can drop our faves and get 15% off your first order. Offer ends August 2nd, so don't miss out. The other place

the tobacco shop

that's not absolutely terrifying, but again is a place that so many people see is the tobacco shop. It has so many like countless encounters over the years and it's like again every detail is the

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exact same and it feels like it's another anchor. It's the only store that has a specific name in the mall world. Like it just says the tobacco shop,

but like nothing else like the food court doesn't say the food court, but the tobacco shop says the tobacco shop.

Tobacco Shop.

And everyone who has seen it describes the exact same thing. While mall world itself is eerie and unsettling, the tobacco shop has a very friendly and warm vibe and it feels safe. But like no one knows much more about it.

Like who created that?

No idea. And this is where I I mean we already said this, but this is where I wrote but here's one of the most horrifying details that people have started to put together over the years. It's not just mall world. Mall world

it's bigger than mall world

seems to have opened up a larger conversation about various liinal spaces just like it. Like they are all connected. There's university world, library world, hotel world, pool world, shower room, labyrinth, the bathroom, the classroom, and all these places are that people are also seeing in their dreams and thanks to the subreddit,

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people are piecing it together, and other people see them, too. So, one person asked, "Has anyone been here before?" And it's this like road that just like goes up.

Oh, it reminds me of playing Mario Kart,

right? This one says, "Every time I dream about a school or gym, I have to make passage through the shower room labyrinth."

Oh. Oh, very creepy.

Yeah.

See, that reminds me of the back rooms. Like that photo feels very back rooms, which again, the back rooms could be part of this.

And on a lot of the maps, people have back rooms on the maps. There are others who have seemed to have to go through underground tunnels to get to M World. Ah, damn. others who have exited through doors that lead to other landscapes. And these same landscapes have been seen by strangers, complete strangers. And so because of this, people have been trying to map out mall world. And I tried to find just the ones that are handdrawn because let's use people's real art. So the first picture, I mean, I'll have put this in the episode earlier because we talked about it earlier, but the first was like a picture of just small world

50:00

and how

confusing it is. Very Alice in Wonderland like you were saying. And then the next three are of the greater world that mall world exists in or is the center of. I don't know. Okay, this one's more about the mall. It's hard to read, but like a bus stop, an airport terminal, a water park, an amusement park that turns into fair, big ass back room, strip mall, weird long highway, Cliff Hill, and then there's like

Wait, Cliff Hill could be described as my [clears throat] outdoor space,

right? Well, so that's like a sketch. And then let's see this one also like cliff side water. Didn't you say the cliffs are by the water?

Well, it was it's more Yeah, it's like a really steep but like carved in spaces.

I mean, again, these are just like sketches. I would draw my own, but yeah, this one would necessarily match perfectly.

Hotel, high school, trees and houses.

Okay, I'm going to draw a map. I'm going to put it on Reddit. I'm going to

Can you share it with us first? [laughter]

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I'm curious now. Then there's like forbidden area. Wow, some people have gone so far. Nice houses. So then there's like eraser where like back rooms exist between a hospital and a scary town. That's a trap. And then it's like nothing mall. Then there's a cinema, an airport, bathroom and school. Again, nice houses on a hill. [sighs] How interesting.

But almost all of them have the back rooms on the maps, which leads us, are

backrooms connection?

they connected?

Did we all play the Sims when we were younger? Or is that maybe one of the

It's I don't know. I don't know either.

Also, like I didn't grow up having these dreams. It was

right.

Very recent.

Yeah.

In life. I I'm sure there's at least one person listening to this who is like way more wellversed in the Reddit like deep dive of M World and is going to be emailing us being like, "Karen, you have absolutely been." I'll go on to Reddit after this too and search for like some of the things I remember and see if anyone else has experienced it.

52:00

Okay. So then one of the big conversations about mall world is like how is it connected to the back rooms? Is it connected? Do they exist in the same world?

And

are we prisoners there?

I don't know. And you talk you covered the back rooms. I can't remember when.

Couple years ago maybe

an episode something in an episode of your girls and girls. But just briefly, it started as a single image posted to a 4chan thread back in 2019 and it went viral for a creepy concept. The empty fluorescent lit yellow carpeted office space with long hallways that extended forever in many directions. The feeling of being watched. And as far as everyone knew, it started as a creepy story, like an idea. And then people started adding on to it and being like, "Oh, there's different levels and then like horrors that you have to like face,

right? It's something stalking you. There's creatures." And then people started saying, "I've actually seen this in my dreams." So, it's kind of like which one came first, The Chicken or the Egg.

And now there's an A24 movie.

And now there's a movie out about it. Yeah. And a I think it was like a Korean film recently that came out. But a lot of people are like, "Was this fiction?"

53:00

And then people started to like dream about it or was it something people had been experiencing and then it turned into a little bit of fiction? But now like which one is writing which?

I mean that's a great question. I we could go far back into the timeline of humans and be like, "How were people in Chile drawing the exact same weird things as people in northern China?"

Right? It's very confusing. And we there's a section at the end where we'll talk about like the biggest theories about this,

but one of them is like an egregor. I think that's how you say it. Egregor.

Yeah. where it's like our human thought has almost created this because we put so much energy into it

and it bled into the collective consciousness and unconsciousness and then penetrated this dream space.

Are we all just like one massive hallucination? Well, I do think we are all connected by the universal consciousness, which also brings us to like Carl Young Jung's is that Carl Young.

Young,

54:00

it's spelled Jung, but young.

Yeah. Like theory of universal consciousness. But anyway, mall world people have been dreaming of for decades before it was ever posted online. Whatever the concept, it does feel safe to say that mall world and the back rooms are connected, but we just don't understand how. It's just wild. Like I know you said like it keeps building on itself and getting bigger, but it is kind of wild that it's like becoming a whole like town. Like will one day it be an entire globe?

So we'll talk. Okay. So now we're going to talk about theories and we'll get into that a little bit. But theory one,

theory one: we made it all up

there's like two subsections of theory one is that we all made it up.

It's fiction. We made it up and

everybody's having dreams that are similar enough based on human experience and we're trying to make connections,

right? So there's and reason

two categories here. The first one is skeptics people who are like you read about it so now you're dreaming about it. The pain in the ass group. Um and then there's the second group which is like the egregor paranormal thought form created. Oh

okay.

So we'll talk about the skeptics first.

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So skeptics were saying it all started online that once it was posted people jumped on the bandwagon.

So I figured I'll talk about the specifics of when it first came online.

Okay. MW World was first posted online in 2016 by an anonymous user on a conspiracy and paranormal forum called Godlike Productions, which I had never heard of before.

Yeah.

But they posted a thread in 2016 titled, "Does anyone frequent mall world in their dreams?" So, this is very different than back rooms cuz when back rooms was posted on 4chan, it was like meant to be posted like fiction. It was like an image.

It wasn't create a scary story,

right? It wasn't a

like Slender Man,

right? And it wasn't like a I've been here, have you been here? Whereas this was very much like,

hey, I keep experiencing this. Anyone else? [clears throat]

And almost immediately people start responding and saying yes. In 2016, then in 2019 that thread resurfaced on a 4chan paranormal board again. More people are jumping into this discussion being like, I've been here too. Then in 2021, the subreddit, the mall world, was

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started. Thousands of people were posting about it. But then the concept of mall world actually really blew up in October of 2025. So not long ago when a 32-year-old artist Jessica Tilton made a Tik Tok about how she had been dreaming about mall world for years. And because she's an artist, she started to like draw and map it out. And so she

and it's a place that she's been experiencing for years. So it's it predates this post.

And so she's like now that I've been here for years, I'm finally able to navigate it consciously.

Wow. and I'm moving through it and I so she started to draw a map and I'll link the Tik Tok in the show notes so everyone can like go and watch. I think it's like three parts and they're pinned at the top of her page. But yeah, she's like mapping it out and she's like using her map as reference and like talking about it. It blew up. It got 2 million views and again everyone is responding being like I have been here or been to places that you're describing.

It's just mindboggling, right?

It's like what is happening? So, if you're on the skeptic side and you think

57:00

that thousands of people are lying,

you're the liar.

You're the liar. Stop trying to gaslight us. Do I think that some people are lying? For sure. Do I think some people are like, I want to be a part of this? Yes. And they maybe believe that they are a part of it, but maybe they're not. Then there are like a subsect of this skeptic world that's like, okay, maybe it's not all completely made up, but it started out made up. kind of like Harold the doll

where it started out as a madeup concept but because so many people started talking about it and experiencing it they

energy towards something

right

it's so hard because it's like

any old dream sometimes it's like okay well that was in your subconscious or like you've been thinking about that or that was something was stressing you out or someone made some little comment you saw a sign and then suddenly it influenced your dream

right but not M world is okay other people argue that the appearance of M world on the internet aligns with the same period in time in real world where so many malls were shutting down and that the abandoned mall started becoming

58:00

a real life place and it kind of gave off this like creepy energy that would naturally start to form in like horror stereotypes or in nightmares because

we were really seeing a place that used to be so lively and meetup and like happy place in most regards becoming completely abandoned

become totally creepy. Yeah. Honestly, when you were putting us through that visual

in the beginning

Yeah. in the very beginning with our eyes closed, I was thinking about the Burlington Mall in Vermont because for years everything started closing. Then there was just like only a couple random shops. Then it closed completely and then Burlington High School like caught on fire or something happened. I don't know. And all the kids had to go to school in the abandoned mall.

Abbott Elementary just did this where something happened with like their generator or something at the school. So they had to go set up shop as a school in abandoned mall.

Like it really but it kind of makes sense.

Happened. I was like, "Oh, well the classroom's already there. The escalator

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up to your next class." Like

Yeah. Okay. So then the second part of this theory is kind of similar to like what the skep like the lesser skeptics were saying where maybe it started out as fake

and is an agreor where we've put so much of our human collective energy and thought toward it that it really has taken on its own life. And other examples of this are the conjuring Philip experiment which we talked about Harold the doll which I don't think that was created by people talking about it but that's like a theory there

or then even like Greg and Dana Newkerk who are doing experiments to prove this theory.

The creepiest items that they can do which is

ventriloquist dolls

made in their essence.

Yes. My twin doll.

Yeah. So the theory here would mean that because people have put so much energy into this world, we literally fed the idea and created a monster.

But like that makes me think about well I guess our world isn't changing in that in that way. Like it's pretty

right

steady. But like again it's like how how

1:00:00

is [sighs and gasps]

how do work?

Regardless I think it 100% mall world exists. We just don't understand why or like how it's expanding.

Yeah.

theory two: universal consciousness

Okay. But theory 2 is universal consciousness. So this connects to the gateway tapes and a lot of other universal consciousness ideas. And it goes back to Carlo Young who proposed that beneath our personal unconscious, there's a much deeper layer shared by all humans, the collective unconsciousness. And within this is everything across the universe, across cultures, across history. It holds all of human history and knowledge. M

not unlike the idea of the aosic records which

I've had on my list to do but it's just so expansive and so like kind of in the way that mall world is so hard to like really grasp and put into words. The aosic records is like that times 10.

I have a couple of those on my list that have like literally been sitting there for like 5 years. When am I going to tackle this?

Right. And it feels like if you just did like a synopsis of it, you're not doing

1:01:00

it justice.

Like the Anunnaki artifacts are on my list, but then I'm like, well, you can't just talk about the artifacts. you have to talk about the people and then you go on to the other alien species and it's just like

it's it's a

it's a rabbit hole rabbit hole.

Okay. So the idea that people have like started to develop in relation to this is that mall world actually serves as a gathering place or waiting room to the collective unconscious that it was made to reflect our physical world in society. Malls used to be our gathering places. Mhm.

So like this idea almost

well and even like classrooms and the cinema and like

right but this almost suggests that our collective unconsciousness has evolved over years because 40 years ago 100 years ago like they didn't have these things that we have in modern day

100 years ago. Welcome to the pub.

Did it look Yeah. Did it look like a pub or did it look like the what's it

the town green

the Romans where they would gather?

Oh the coliseum.

Yeah. like did it look like that and

1:02:00

[laughter] has it changed? Others have even said that it's the processing plant where all of current things in our lives are being processed and that's why it's like expanding the more and more because we're like developing more through life and like the idea that the upper floors are the future that haven't been developed yet or haven't h happened yet and that's why they're so scary and you shouldn't go up there.

Again, everyone's just trying to figure out of it. spin it straws here just trying to understand.

But what I did like about this idea is like that's why it's so looping and confusing because it's

figuring it out.

Which [clears throat] is the same way like we're also figuring it out. It feels like we're so many steps behind though cuz it's like it's figuring it out while we're trying to figure out what it even is in the beginning that it's like the second something might make sense it changes. It shifts and then there's another

but then it's also like are we figuring it out? And that's why one place becomes less confusing because we figured that out and then now it's opened another

1:03:00

door that we have to figure out and like

okay well who are these like groups in this the scary man the couple like

I don't know I don't know

who are those players here

I told you at the beginning we're not going to get answers here then the third theory

it's so trippy

it's so trippy the third theory is about

theory three: astral plane / another dimension

the astral plane and potentially this being a completely different dimension

so the theory here is that the mall world is in the astral plane or an allgether different dimension that you can only only access while asleep or in a deeply meditative state. Some users on Reddit who just absolutely hate mall world call it hell. Other people think it's code that nothing is real that people are in mall world because we were coded to go there that we have no

that's what we said in the beginning.

Yeah.

It's kind of like an easy out. It's like well it's a simulation and there's code and we are just a series of numbers.

But that's also still confusing cuz it's like well but who's coding us?

Who's coding us

and why? And I thought we were made of stardust, not in zeros and ones.

I know. But like I said, everything I found out about mall world led to a

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hundred different questions. And even now, like talking to you and hearing your experiences, we both have even more questions.

People have conducted polls and tests and try to understand why people are going to mall world like why why have you been and I've never been. Also, why? I don't want to say that. I've been

I don't want to be a part of this club. I don't want something else happening to me. [laughter]

Okay. We'll gaslight you and pretend you've never been, but I'm winking at the camera. You [laughter] guys like Karan the Ben. To summarize this crazy topic, we don't know anything, but mall world, I can like confidently say, is in some regard very real. It's a place you can visit in your dreams, maybe just by talking about it, and maybe just by listening to this tonight as you drift off to sleep, you'll be thinking about it subconsciously, and you might end up in Malt World. M

and if you do, we're sorry, but please also email us.

Yeah, [laughter] tell us about it.

Um,

and if anyone's been [clears throat] anywhere that I've been, let me know.

1:05:00

I mean, they have, people have

kindly

100% people have,

but like the essence sounds right, but like the descriptions, the details are a little different,

right? But then I also think like even as people are mapping it out, it's not like someone is walking out of mall world into the street. It's almost like you're blipping into different places. So, and then even the way you were describing it, it's like you just know that this is there

and that something's happening, but you don't know how they connect,

right?

God damn it. [snorts]

listener story: mall world

Did you find

[ __ ] up? We have exactly one single email.

Someone's been here

from mall world. Yeah. I was actually surprised. I expected more. Well, maybe we need to look up like the elementary school because it goes so much bigger than we even realize. Ever since we've been doing this episode, my computer is like not working

really. Like it's moving very slow and glitching.

Well, that's never a good sign. Okay, there's an email. It's called Mall

1:06:00

World. This was sent in white ink. So, if you first opened it, it looked completely empty, but then I highlighted it and I was like, "Oh, here's the text.

It's Mole World did it. They don't want us to talk about the place."

Who's they ladies? My name is Amanda and you're more than welcome to use my name. I've been watching your podcast while I work for over 8 months now and I love it so much. I've been very interested in the episodes about astral projection and I wanted to share something that has personally happened to me. Last year I went to a session of something called the EE system once because my parents said that it could help me with my anxiety and any pains that I have. I'm an avid crossstitcher so I do get a lot of joint pain. Anyway, after I went through an hourong session of laying there with the headphones on, I stopped getting dreams. Also, all of the gifts of feeling and hearing and smelling spirits seemed to go away entirely.

Interesting.

They all came back a month later, thankfully, but something really strange started to happen. I [clears throat] started to have other people's dreams.

1:07:00

What?

For example, one of my dreams I remember very well looked like it was set in Japan. And I have never even owned a passport. I have never traveled outside of the US. I was not me at all. But I was being led on a tour by a man and he took me to this underground illegal casino. It had shiny title all over the ceiling or tile maybe all over the ceiling and walls. There was this big archway covered with the same tile and tables for games scattered all throughout the room. And when I was walking through, I remember these men just stop and start staring at me. They stared at me until we walked all the way through. And I'm not sure if I was male or female in this dream, but I knew I was not welcomed and I was definitely not me. Okay. And then I started to get these dreams about mall world. And they didn't start until after I had this session. One time I went to the What is an EE system? Cuz it all started with that

EE system. Okay, my computer is being so slow.

Security system supplier. It's not that.

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Okay. Some sort of like meditative therapy. Oh, e system healing. The energy enhancement system combines mind, body, spirit, and science to achieve peak performance and reach higher states of health.

Okay, so we still don't understand, but

it's like an energy treatment.

Okay, so she went had the energy treatment, lost all abilities for a month, and then [clears throat] started having weird dreams with the return of her experiences. Okay, one time I went to a movie theater. I remember waking up in the foyer seeing all these murals of film strips and popcorn like what you would see if you go to the cineark.

A lot of people go to the cinema in mall world.

Uhhuh. I also got dreams of this infinite disgusting bathroom consisting of broken and very dirty toilets.

Everyone's terrified of the bathroom.

There will sometimes be short stalls but not enough to provide privacy. Or sometimes there will be no stalls at all. And I will see people in there, both male and female, but they don't seem to move and no one acknowledges me. Oh, it's so creepy. I've also roamed

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around the mall. My experiences have consisted of roaming around the mall portion in these very dark hallways. It always starts to form a maze. And sometimes it will look like an actual mall, but sometimes it doesn't. If I go into a store, it will barely have anything at all or it will just have clothes in it that I would never wear. One time I do remember dreaming about a library, but this is a library I've never been to. It had such rich dark wood and those green table lamps that you always see in libraries and movies. I'm not sure if this is part of the mall world, but I wanted to mention it. I've since been looking it up on Tik Tok and Reddit and have seen that people are connecting these experiences with mall world as being part of the gate program.

So, a lot of people that's like one of the commonalities. They're like, "Oh, I did the Gate program growing up." And like

interesting. She says, "I don't think I was ever a part of Gate. I do remember hearing tests as a kid in school, but that's all I remember."

Yeah.

See you on the other side, Amanda. But then I also feel like the GATE program, I mean, there's that's like a whole conspiracy. And I feel like we've

1:10:00

briefly talked about it, but just because some people were chosen to be a part of the gate program doesn't mean other people don't have like the similar abilities. Like I really do feel like similar to the gateway tapes like the meditative state that you go into is what allows you to access these other planes.

And there's so much like when you were doing the gateway tapes with all like the different beats and stuff. I do wonder if there's something like if people living in cities or something if there's just some sort of accidental

like a vibrational hum that like

happens

or like a perfect series of events where like there's a couple tones that happen in a certain sequence randomly every once in a while and it just sends certain people who are super sensitive into this state into this world.

I don't know. Now I'm like thinking I I was just trying to look it up but I'm pretty sure we recently read a story from someone who was like I had a dream in their dream they were in a mall and like very similar idea where like these people like kind of stopped and stared at them like they shouldn't be there.

But I'm like if we shouldn't be there

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why are so many people accessing it? Get your security fig.

But also are those people looking at you as if you shouldn't be there or are they also there being like oh my god there's another person staring at me?

I don't know. only because one time I saw someone in the classroom out of the like four times I've been there

and I stared at her the whole time.

Like what if you

and I was she was in in the classroom. So like I felt like I shouldn't be there and that she was acting weird because that's because I was cornering her exit standing there staring at her.

Well then I'm now I'm curious about like the two like the duo like the shady business group that's like working in there. Like what if they're real people who've just like figured out M world and like are able to like run through it kind of inceptiony.

Mhm.

I don't know. It's so

I don't know either confusing.

It is [clears throat]

but it's a place and it's so many people all over the world are talking about it and experiencing it.

God and like again like what is the trigger? What brings people there? I

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will say I re I've been researching this for like a week and so like it's on my mind or it's like in my subconscious that I'm going to sleep and I've not visited but I have once I go on Reddit and read more.

You've gone great. [laughter]

You've been 100%.

It's opinion based.

But I I really did want to like while doing the research for this I really it made me want to do another gateway tape.

How many are you have you done? Three. I think I've done like four now.

Four. You should.

Yeah. The fourth one is the one that I witnessed Whitney's weird thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's also so interesting cuz it's like you're not doing them in succession. You're just kind of doing them whenever, but they're working perfectly.

Yeah. The idea is that you're supposed to be able to get to a place where you don't need to listen to the beats that you just go into a meditative state. Well, there's like so in the last one that I did, it was like now moving forward like anytime you lay in this position and count to 10 imagining this

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bubble growing around you like there's like code like

code that they're treat like teaching you to to do it in the future without the the beat.

Man, I'm so bad at math. I don't want to talk about code. [laughter]

I'll never understand if that's what it all is relying upon. I mean, I think the the truth is we'll never understand. At least not in this lifetime. Maybe on the other side.

Or maybe one day we'll all be seated in the classroom in mall world and get a lesson on what is life and where are we right now.

That kind of seems scary. Like it's almost better to not know.

Ignorance is bliss.

Yeah. Um

I'm down to float around on this rock

and in mall world because you've been um All right, we'll do a poll. Who thinks Karen's been to Mall World?

I haven't been to the mall.

You have not been to the mall? Correct.

I'll let you know if I get into one of those apartments.

Yeah. [laughter]

Into the condo.

Get a lease signed.

I'm trying. A one-year lease. Just six months.

That's funny.

Six months for me to kayak on the spooky waters.

I know. There's like a lot of places

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that I mean, the whole place feels kind of like a trap.

It does.

Um, but yeah, if you've been to M World, we want to hear your experience cuz maybe if we get enough, we'll do a whole encounters about it.

Oh god.

Yeah. So, yeah. Email us at two girls oneodcast@gmail.com. I think I mumbled that. gmail.com. It's also in the show notes and

said it's like

on our website. Yeah, you can email us any of your stories. It doesn't just have to be about M world, but we do want Malt World stories.

Thank you to [clears throat] Jamie Ryan who edits and produces both our regular episodes and everything that is exclusive on Patreon as well. So, if you're not a Patreon member, head over there. We've got a lot of cool offerings. Adree one week early episodes. Yep.

Book club, witch class.

We make it worth your money and your time.

Merch, everything. Merch discounts.

Yes. And thank you to all of you. We love you

and we will see you on the other side.

Very spooky.