YULE & WINTER SOLSTICE TALES| New Hampshire's Derry Fairy and Female Icon & Witch Baba Yaga (Ep 353)

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LOW RASPING SCREECH, [screaming] not belonging to any animal or man, but to one of New England's strangest Christmas legends. He couldn't believe what he was seeing, but sure enough, it was a house walking towards him, stomping through the woods on chicken legs, and the witch stepped out. Today's episode is all about the holidays. Yeah,

very spooky.

Hello. Merry holidays.

Merry holidays.

Merry happy everything or not. [laughter] You know what?

You know, also is the season to be sick. So, if you see my I thought you were going to say the season to be sad.

Oh, [laughter] my watered down OJ that, too. And my

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bowl of Cheerios, just ignore. We do what we can.

We're trying to survive. I will say if you listen to the Patreon bonus that comes out on Christmas, anytime around this episode, you're going to be like, "Oh, these are two very different Sabrinas." Because in that episode, I was like, "Oh, the emotional valve has been turned off." It was [ __ ] activated this past week. I cried something happen

like a baby. Well, I was aware that I was blocking a lot of emotions, so I decided to do a um Vegas nerve breathing meditation.

Oh god, that gives me anxiety just thinking about it.

Oh, and I had a two-day cryathon. Jesus.

Anyway,

so how did you find this uh exercise? Was it just like on YouTube or something?

Yeah, I looked up on YouTube. I'll link the one. I mean, she has like 400,000 views on her video. So,

Oh, I thought you had 400,000 videos. Like, Jesus Christ.

Maybe. I mean, I don't know. But, um, it's the 4ount breath in, six count out.

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Isn't that crazy? Just like what the human body does.

Yeah.

That's like I told you about the chiropractor that I used to go to when I was in high school and that they were like woo woo chiropractors.

So, they wouldn't crack your back. They would just like tap you in certain spots and then you'd breathe through it and like people would weep

and I remember like fighting laughing fits fighting myself crying like multiple times. I don't know what the hell they were releasing in our bodies by just tapping us and you're not in a private room either. You're lined up. There were like five lined up.

So we're just like all laying there like [laughter]

and then your back cracks and they're like okay you're good to go. I really I've been interested in I don't know that I necessarily want to do it right now at this time in my life because I'm despite having felt the last couple of days. I do feel like I am not in a place where I'm like oh I need to do more emotional work.

Yeah. But did you feel a release from it?

Uh somewhat.

Or are you like [ __ ] I shouldn't have done that right now?

No. I mean I spent like the whole weekend in bed so that was annoying cuz

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I don't like being depressed but no there's like all these rituals and retreats. I think a lot of them are like Southeast Asia where you go and they're like predominantly women. There's like all these like healing and like baths and these like women like leading you through it. So cool.

And I've always wanted to do one, but you should. I'm not emotionally available right now.

That could be your holiday gift for yourself and then you plan it for like 6 months out and then you've got six months to mentally prepare. Your birthday gift

eight months.

It's not a this year, it's not a next year thing. Maybe maybe in like three years. to know yourself.

Yeah.

Right.

But today's episode is all about the holidays.

a creature in the Christmas trees

Yeah. What I'm about to share with you, just pretend that this is coming out of my mouth in kind of a sexy way. All right.

All right. I have my sexy Karin ears on.

Just You're not going to get that, but pretend that that's [laughter] what you're hearing. It was the first real snowfall of the season in Derry, New Hampshire.

Ooh. The kind that coats the old stone

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walls and makes every pine tree look like it belongs on a postcard. Holly Danvers, [laughter] I love her name. I made it up, had sworn she'd never come back. She had a good job, a tiny apartment in New York City,

Hallmark movie. [laughter] And exactly zero time for nostalgia. Totally tried to make it pretty corny. And when her mother called asking for help running the family's Christmas tree farm,

of course, [laughter]

Holly had to pack her bags and head home to the farm. On her first morning back, bundled in borrowed flannel, she trudged through rows of evergreens toward a man sawing at a fur tree near the woods edge. She recognized him. Not the man from high school. He used to be friends with her older brother, [laughter]

but she hadn't seen him in years. And wow, he'd really grown into himself.

Wow.

Rugged, quiet, the kind of man who still chopped with the oldfashioned way.

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Of course, they all do.

God, he was handsome. Perhaps she should say something. Well, no. What's the point? She doesn't even live here anymore. She's still returned to the city in a few weeks. But she hasn't really been with anyone for a while. So her mind wanders and she begins to think of his strong hands covering the entirety of her back. Her flannel slipping gently to the floor. The heat of his soft lips on her neck warms her just enough before they [laughter] Her fantasy suddenly interrupted by a sound. Her eyes darted back to the man who was now frozen, staring just past her into the opposite treeine. His ax slipped from his glove, and Holly turned, expecting maybe a deer, maybe some mist. But instead, she saw nothing. But the man's breath quickened, his eyes wide with terror. And then, from somewhere between the pines, came a sound. Low, rasping screech, not belonging to any animal or man, but to one of New England's strangest Christmas legends,

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THE DAIRY FAIRY.

[screaming]

the Derry Fairy cryptid

OKAY, SO OBVIOUSLY I made up the beginning part.

Wait, but what happens? Do they get together? [laughter] What's the We need We need a happy ending.

Have sex.

Did she leave the big city for her [laughter] for her small town farm? They um split time.

Half city, half [laughter] rural I don't know, New York. I don't know where I said this.

Somewhere Between the Pines sounds like a TV show.

Somewhere Between the Pines. In the Pines. Isn't that a spooky book? Maybe sounds like it should be. Probably is.

Yeah.

I also couldn't My narrative couldn't be more

opposite. [laughter]

I did write smut. It was an entire page. I really kept going.

I love it.

Okay, so I clearly exaggerated at the beginning,

but we should write like a creepy Hallmark holiday [laughter] movie.

Oh my god, I love that. Hallmark movies are so Well, I don't mean to insult anyone. I was going to say easy.

They're cheesy

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to write. It's like what's the cornst

but not all of this was made up because there really was a man in the woods and his name was Alfred Horn. I don't know if Alfred Horn wore flannel or was super sexy or

but it's New Hampshire and it's winter. So

yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. I said I don't know where I set this as if it wasn't in Dair [laughter] New Hampshire. I'm already forgetting things but that was fact. Dair New Hampshire. Okay. So Alfred Horn, he encountered something very strange in Derry, New Hampshire while he was in the woods harvesting Christmas trees. So that was not totally false. I don't know if he was harvesting Christmas trees just for his own property or if this was like sort of the thing where he like, you know, was slinging Christmas trees on the edge of the road or whatever, but he was in the woods. According to legend, on December 15th, 1956, Alfred was specifically in the woods near Beaver Lake. He had an axe in his hand and he was on the hunt for the perfect Christmas trees. And while in the woods, Alfred spotted something. It

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was an animal, but it also kind of wasn't because this creature was something like he'd never seen before. It was about 2t tall, green skinned with wrinkled folds like an elephant's skin, like you know, like that tough kind of like a wrinkly but green. It was about 2 feet tall. Yes.

Two feet. It had floppy ears, like basset hound ears, tiny holes where the nose should be. I know this is like the most bizarre looking creature. And eyes that looked somewhat like they had almost like a film over them.

Like I'm almost picturing, you know, like when like a when like a dog goes blind

or I was like a newborn too, like a not like a skin and dogs like they have like that little like film over their eyes for a couple of days before they can actually like fully see,

right? which like if he saw all of this, he was super close to this thing.

I also feel like when something's so traumatic or also just like off-putting, you almost memorize you either memorize details way more or you block it out.

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Block it all out. Yeah. The creature's arms and legs were really short, which makes sense. It was only standing 2 ft tall. And it ended in stubby hands and toeless feet, so it just kind of had like nubs. How did it pick anything up? With its mind, probably. Oh,

okay. So, he's like, "This is impossible. This animal does not exist. What the [ __ ] am I seeing?"

Right.

Yeah. Standing there in the woods, this thing is really close to him and it's watching him silently. So, Alfred's like, "Okay, I'm just going to keep [laughter]

and then start singing.

You can give requests. Jingle bell, jingle bell, jingle bell rock."

It watches him for 20 minutes. 20 minutes. that just stands there watching.

He's watching it for 20 minutes.

Yeah. He keeps doing what he's doing and is like aware of this

goblin went home and was like, "You'll never believe what I saw in the woods."

Truly. Truly. And like I think Alfred really scared this thing, too.

So Alfred, aware of this creature the

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entire time, decided perhaps he needed to capture it because as he was thinking about it, he's like, "No one's ever going to believe me that this is what I saw and that this thing is staying here." And this thing wasn't really moving. So he's like, "It's tiny. It's stationary. I can totally get this thing.

It reminds me kind of the Squon, especially the folded skin kind of.

Oh, what if it was like the Squon's cousin

who lives in New Hampshire? He's a little green up there. I mean, it is a bit greener.

Yeah, right. He's got a bend into the trees more.

Yeah, we know nothing. [laughter]

So, Alfred, we said this is two girls, one ghost. This

is two girls, one ghost.

Hey, Serena Karen.

Nice to meet you. Back to it. [laughter]

Nice to meet you. Pleasure. Pleasure is mine. That's [laughter] like when my brother [clears throat] came into town for Thanksgiving and uh as he was leaving, I hugged him and I said, "Nice [clears throat] to see you." And and he said like you as well or something. I was like, "This is the most formal goodbye ever. It's awkward now."

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[laughter]

Okay, so Alfred, he lunges at this creature and the poor thing is so scared. It lets out this terrifying screech. But the screech is so scary sounding that it scares Alfred. Good. It could. [laughter]

So Alfred runs. I I assume the creature ran too and that they're both like both parties left the woods in haste.

Yeah.

Uh but Alfred then reports exactly what he had seen

and he goes to the news and he's like, "I saw a goblin or a fairy or something in the woods." [clears throat]

Yeah.

So based on the description Alfred gave, the entity soon earned the name the dairy fairy because it was in Dair, New Hampshire.

And it rhymes.

Yep. This was an interesting thing because while they were calling it a fairy and it did have like goblin-like characteristics, some people wondered if he actually encountered an alien because the length of New Hampshire, I guess if you're driving from north to south is only like 3-hour drive.

It's it's a small state if someone's never been there.

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Maybe like hour and a half to two hours away from where this was drive-wise was the Betty and Barney Hill abduction.

What year did that happen? I thought that was 65.

Uh, I could be totally wrong. Oh, it was 1961 and this happened

in 56.

Oh, yeah.

So, I'm assuming that from what I read, this was like an it must be an afterthought. Yeah, cuz it wasn't Yeah. But basically, some people are like, "Oh, is this another example of the little green man existing in New Hampshire?"

Right. But the lore of this region and of Beaver Lake is much older than these 20th century encounters and could potentially explain what was seen by Alfred on this winter day in the search of Christmas trees. There are a few retellings in different versions of this and I didn't go into full detail because it involves some like less favorable narratives about like native people in the area and I just don't want to include that. Um, but one of the potential matches to the Dairy Fairy that I will say is that there is a tale

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of Shenito, a fa hunter, and spirit protector associated with this lake and this region.

And according to legend, it says that this fairy, Shenito, lives in the woods here and looks out for people in distress, using its powers and magic to help and save people who find themselves in a rough spot in the woods. So, could Alfred have been watched by the dairy fairy who is really Shenito who's like this spirit,

forest spirit who is out there like protecting people and making sure people who are alone there are okay. I think about this a lot like how many times objectively as humans we are limited. Even our eyesight is limited. We can't see the like atoms moving in the air like we can't see everything. How many times do we accidentally see something that we shouldn't see?

Oh, and is this an example of it?

And like, do our brains correct it most of the time or we're like, "Oh, that

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could that was like it was just a flash of something and then you pretend that it's something else?" Like, does your brain rewrite your experience and you're actually seeing things more than you know? Hm. Well, then I think about this entity too that like is there an entire whole like species or like category of beings that literally live in the unseen? I think yes. He was like I was scene today. Yeah. Isn't that like the whole thing where there was like that one piece of um glass or something? I don't know if this is a conspiracy or not. There's like a piece of glass and people were making like glasses out of it or whatever, but they could see into another dimension. Never heard this.

What? You got to get deeper into your Tik Tok. [laughter]

No, but it was like Yeah. Once you can see the other plane, you see how much exists and all the different creatures and

Oh,

things and like other cities like amongst ours, but it just exists in another plane, but we're all together stacked on top of each other, but somehow

Huh,

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dude. I don't understand.

I mean, I believe that. I just haven't heard that of the glass.

Yeah. Okay. Wait, let me do a quick Google. I'll tell you what the glass is called.

Okay. I think Google is trying to steer me away from conspiracies because [laughter] the type of glass is not coming up, but it does exist.

Someone will know on the internet somewhere. Anyway, that's the Dairy Fairy. It's very short, but it's a little tale of some strange creature lurking in the woods of Dairy, New Hampshire.

Interesting.

In the winter looking at people harvesting Christmas trees.

I'm so curious where this man is.

Harvesting the right word. I keep saying harvesting,

but

cutting down Christmas trees. Yeah, harvesting sounds I feel like we're we're kind of killing the trees the trees.

Yeah.

I wonder where this man is now.

I don't know.

Like I want to talk to him. I want to hear I want to hear the story from him.

What if that's your grandpa?

How cool would that be?

That would be really

or your dad.

Yeah. Ask your families this Christmas if they've ever seen anything weird out in the woods.

Yeah. Yeah, I honestly feel like you'll be surprised because I feel like so many

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people I think because of our positions of where we are with this podcast, like we do get told things, but like people that I'd known for years or like family members or whatever

suddenly tell the tale of like seeing something strange. I'm like, you saw Bigfoot or like you saw a lake monster.

Your dad constantly has new stories.

Oh god, I can't even. This past Thanksgiving, my dad was talking about how he was had like a high score on one of the arcade games and he's like, "But you know it it's not like that impressive cuz like I worked at the arcade so I'd ask we're like when did you work at the arcade?"

And I was like, "Christian, did you know this?" And my brother just shooks his head. He's like, "No, but classic dad." Like you just learn

a big part of his life and childhood at some other

Doesn't it make you sad? You'll literally never know. Even like everyone in your life, the closest people in your life, you'll never actually know their whole story.

Everything. I'm like, why? How'd that never come up?

Cuz you had lots of jobs. I don't know. I've had a lot of like weird odd jobs that like I probably haven't shared cuz

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I don't think they're that interesting. Did I tell you I was a referee for soccer? Like literally for years and years. I worked under the table at a couple restaurants. I once chopped off a piece of my finger and hit it cuz I was so scared. I literally was using a knife. Not a piece of my finger. It was like a slice of my skin and I like literally held a paper towel on my thumb like the entire day. Just kept working.

Sabrina, have you told your therapist this?

Probably or like equivalent to that cuz that's like metaphor for my whole life.

That's why I was like, "Oh, this is one of the early examples of you not showing your pain.

Do not hiding [laughter] anyone everyone.

Hold it together for everyone. They depend on you."

Baba Yaga - Christmas Icon

[laughter]

This is a great transition into my story because this is a figure, a Christmas winter being that I want to learn from and embody moving forward in my life.

Okay. Well, now I'm very curious because you have once said that you wanted to be the squank. So, I'm like

that's the creature that cries.

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[laughter]

I am the squank.

Baba Yaga.

Baba Yaga I feel like

is who I ought to be.

Have we talked about Baba Yaga before? We have mentioned her in passing and someone brought her up to us recently, but we've never covered her.

Mhm.

Christmas. Christmas as we know it today. It's a time of cheer, family, joy, hot chocolate, mold wine,

veging out in Christmas mold wine, veging out in Christmas pajamas [laughter] as we are doing currently. But that is not the Christmas I'm going to be sharing with you today.

No, today I'm going to talk about Christmas of the past. The one where children didn't go to sleep thinking of toys beneath a Christmas tree, but instead went to sleep with fear that they might not wake in the morning. This Christmas story is about survival.

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12 Days of Winter Survival

And so to really paint the picture, I'm going to take you back in time to the 1500s in Russia where a young girl or

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you, whoever's listening, as a child prepares for the most dangerous time of year. That's so scary. It feels like the purge preparing for the most dangerous time of the year. And it's Christmas. [laughter]

Yeah.

Used to be Black Friday before online shopping. Oh god, it was still scary. Walking on Newbury Street on Black Friday was scary.

Okay, so instead of a Hallmark movie, I'm going to take you into a horror movie. Picture yourself huddled around a fire inside a small cottage that sits on the edge of the woods. A simple stew simmers above the flames. You watch as the sun sets outside. Not that it provided much light or warmth during the day that is coming to an end. You fear what comes after the sun disappears. Your ancestors have long warned of these days, the most dangerous of all, the 12 days between Christmas and Epiphany. These 12 days mark the days the sun is at its weakest. But it was never just the cold that they feared. It was what

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grew stronger as the sun grew weaker, the spirits. For these 12 days were the most dangerous of the entire year. Where the nights are longer than the days. Where the wolves walk upright. Where the lost spirits linger. And where the witches snatch children from fields. Jeez. A chill runs through your spine as you think of what lurks just beyond your home. And you turn your attention back to the flames in the hearth. You whisper a prayer, asking that the fire stay strong through the night. Because you've heard stories of what happens should the fire die. You've heard of the young boy named Male. And even the thought of his tale frightens you. But now that you've thought it, you can't think it away. The story runs through your mind over and over. His family was just like yours. Simple, small, sitting around a fire, hoping to make it through the night. But on the ninth night of the 12 days, Male and his family ran out of dry wood.

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There was nothing left, and their fire was dwindling fast. Male was sent into the forest to gather fallen branches. Doing as he was told, he walked into the trees. The silence was thick. He could hear the snowflakes as they landed beside him. He was nervous as he trudged through the woods, looking for branches. And he couldn't help but notice that the moon wasn't out, almost as if it too was scared of the night. And that's when he heard it, a creaking like a tree branch bearing weight. Then came the snap. Male whipped his head around. Crunch, crunch. Someone or something was upon him. He turned again, eyes wide, landing on it. A hut with legs. Not just legs, chicken legs. With He couldn't believe what he was seeing, but sure enough, it was a house walking towards him, stomping through the woods on chicken legs. What in the

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world? This is very Wizard of Oz. The detail was unmistakable. It was a house with a fence made of bones walking in the woods. And he knew what came next. And the front door of this hut swung open. And the witch stepped out. Baba Yaga. She was even more terrifying than the legend proclaimed. Long iron teeth glinting like needles. Skin as gray as ash. And then she spoke. a deep raspy voice that while small echoed through his head. Little mouse, why do you wander during the 12 days when the world belongs to me? [laughter]

Also, it feels like you could outrun a house trying to make its way through the woods. [sighs] Yeah, but I think the terror just stopped you in its track.

Yeah.

Or what if it's magical and it like a house that's walking through the woods if it's magical? [laughter] Male had nearly forgotten his mission,

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the fear enveloping every inch of his body. He whimpered a response, telling her he's searching for firewood. And Baba Yaga seemed to grin then, and in silent orders, she commanded the house to bend down. And then Baba Yaga was face to face with Male. She took a step towards him, so now he could see inside the front door. And the witch beckoned him inside. Then come burn your firewood. Male moved as if in a trance entering Baba Yagyaga's hut. And as the door shut, the forest swallowed the sound and male with it, too. You shiver as you recall this tale. And then you turn to your own fire and count the logs of wood sitting beside the burning fire. Only three remain.

Oh my god. You've got about an hour.

You better hope they last through the night, which you It won't. You ever seen a fire? It won't. And that's my Hallmark movie. Damn, that's

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terrifying. I was just like, what is the

who is she?

point of these Baba Yaga stories? Like, it's why why? And who is she? That's a secret I'll never tell. [laughter] XOXO Babi Yaga Babaga.

Right. No, she sounds terrifying. And also like the imagery of this hut on chicken legs, it's a bit absurd and

funny. Like there's like a Yeah. like humor to it.

Strange. Why that? Yeah.

It does feel like it's like a picture book made for kids in a way to like scare them. Like the house swallows you whole

and she does sound scary,

but then also it's like what are the lessons? Like what makes Babi Yaga come for you?

Well, that's a good question. Who is she? Who is she? What's her motive? And she seems scary, but she's also a badass. And I hope that you'll leave this episode thinking, "Wow, what a badass witch Babiaga is." [laughter] Okay, so we're going to talk about her, who she is,

according to the lore, and then I'll break down the history, the origins, and

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then her lasting impact. So, in the very simplest of terms, Baba Yaga is an ancient Russian and Slavic witch spirit who lives in a magical hut on chicken legs and is a very complex being who challenges the people she encounters, which is mostly children.

She is both a destroyer and giver of life and resembles the old hag and enjoys feasting on children. Although, this is okay. I this is a quote that I took from um a grunge article because I it's like my favorite description I came across and I was like why rewrite perfection?

Yeah. Okay. Baba Yaga is a voracious swamp witch who wants only to gobble up fat children after forcing them to do chores for her. [laughter] Oh my god. The voracious swamp witch.

Yeah.

I feel like that should be our new Instagram bio. [laughter] We are voracious swamp witches. Um, no, I just loved that description of her and

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stole it, but gave credit. Her name Baba Yaga. Baba means like old or like grandmother,

but [clears throat] Yaga I think is like harder to translate, but so people call her the old woman witch or like that's what it translates to or the old woman of horror or old witch or the terrible grandmother.

Oh wow. and she shares a lot of similarities to the old crone, the old hag or the evil old witch stereotype throughout history.

But what I love about her is she is complex with duality. She is a woman with lots of dimensions. She's not like a two-dimensional scary character.

Cuz I can't remember all the details, but I feel like the you covered the woman from Iceland who would like collect children in her s sack and

Right. So there's like Fra Peta. I think that's

Oh, yeah.

I later on I referenced like a couple of them that we do that we have talked about in the past.

I feel like those are it's a harder to find redeeming qualities when they just

steal children and run away.

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Yeah.

And but the thing is like and we'll get to it, but with so many of the other Christmas scary creatures, they were like created to teach lessons.

Mhm.

Whereas this one wasn't. But

she's just like doing her thing.

She's just doing her thing. But she also

which makes me almost believe it like feels less like it's a legend that was made up and more of like was there a was there someone named Baba Yaga who was terrorizing the town and it like be turned into this lore.

I believe she was a personification of something which we'll get to that over the years became something much larger.

Okay. I mean this has started in the 1500s you said.

Yeah. or actually before that, but the first like recorded writing of her is 1500s.

Um, okay. She isn't two dimensional. She's a complex creature who doesn't do what you want her to do. She does what she wants to do. She behaves differently depending on the encounters. They vary

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throughout literature, but most scholars do agree upon the way she appears, her tools, and her abilities. Baba Yaga is said to appear as a gaunt, skeletal, long-nosed, iron tothed witch with hair like twigs or smoke. One of her legs is often stripped of flesh, stripped of muscle, stripped all the way down to the bone. Basically a reminder to those who see her that she is, you might be seeing her physically, but she has one foot literally in the grave. Like she is not of this world. It is said that her voice is like wind through dead branches and that her sunken eyes burn yellow or blue. She is often seen flying in her mortar and pestle. Which I love this so much cuz it's like I don't know where this falls in terms of like the witch on a broom.

Yeah.

Like lore, but she literally flies in a mortar, which is kind of like a cauldron,

right? It's like a

And then her pestal

tub.

Yeah. Right. And I love that. And then

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she's always seemingly accompanied by her hut, which yes, stands on chicken legs and moves through the woods with her very much alive, but doesn't move with power.

She's a green witch. She's all She's ready to just like grind herbs,

her children. [laughter]

So, this is one drawing.

She's smiling

cuz she's happy. [laughter]

She looks dead, but

her life how she wants or her afterlife. But yeah, so this house, this hut on chicken legs also has like a yard of its own, which I love. Like she travels with her house in her yard, but this house doesn't operate without her. So it's not like you could just see her chicken leg hut in the woods. Like if you see it, you see her.

Okay. So it it only appears when she's there.

Yeah. As far as I know. And aside from the standout chicken legs, her hut moves by Baba Yaga's command. It will spin and it will turn. It'll dance when she asks it to. And it has a yard, like I said. And this yard is surrounded by a fence of human bones. And every other like fence post is topped with a skull.

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Oh jeez. Wow.

Should you go inside and make it out alive, you would think that the interior would be corresponding to the terrifying exterior.

Mhm.

But no, you step inside and it is in direct contrast. It is cozy. It is your grandmother's house. It is comfortable. It smells like apples and cinnamon. It's always warm. It's a delight inside her house.

This is making me wonder if Sarah J. Moss, who wrote A Court of Thorns and Roses, got any inspiration from Baba Yaga for the weaver, which is like a creature that kind of looks like her

that lives like deep in the woods in this hut, but is like blind

and her house is really kind of cozy inside and has a lot of stuff and she spends her days like

weaving but will kill you if she catches you in her house. It is kind of similar and I do feel like Baba Yaga's house is very similar to her. The exterior does not seem inviting but at the core inside

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there's warmth. There's also terror and this mortar and pestle has multiple purposes. It is to fly. It is her vessel that she flies in. But it's also the perfect place for her to grind up the bones of her next meal. She carries with her a birch broom to sweep away any mess. She's keeping a tidy home. She likes a tidy home. Exactly. She also has magical fire, like an eternal flame,

which if you keep in mind,

where is it?

She just has the ability to have it. And I think she keeps it in like a skull and then also in her hearth in her home.

And by all accords,

so really people wouldn't need to go chop firewood if she would just share the eternal flame.

So exactly. So some people do seek her for fire.

Ah, it's all coming together.

Yeah. By all accords, she totally embodies the witch trope, like the old scary witch in the woods. She controls, commands nature, she can fly, she can shapeshift, she knows of herbs, she can cast spells using herbal tinctures, and she can foresee the future.

She literally has like an herb garden.

33:00

Totally.

She travels with she travels with Yeah. And I also love this idea that like cuz sometimes traveling, the worst part about traveling is like you can't bring your home with you. Like the comforts of home, you can't bring your cats and stuff. She's like, "I have a solution. Pick it up on chicken legs.

She is the original mobile home.

She is. [laughter]

The chicken legs is a choice. I don't know what why, but that's how it is. Because she's a green witch and she probably has chickens on her property, too.

That's true.

Her favorite chicken probably. And it's like last breath of life. She's like, I will find a way to make you live forever.

Auntie made it her home

be a part of my home forever.

Chicken wax.

The chicken carries the house. And like I said, from the narrative I shared in the beginning and also most narratives that do include Baba Yaga, she is quite terrifying. And also, this is kind of going back to what we were just talking about, the Christmas winter legends we've shared in the past. You would assume that maybe Baba Yaga is created to teach a lesson to teach children to

34:00

be good girls and good boys. Like Grya, maybe Grya is the one who I covered.

Oh yeah. Yeah, Gry is the one that carries children in her sack.

Krampus. And then there's Fra Percha, which I think you pa or pecta. I do remember her.

I put an R in there, but I could have just added it by for funsies. But Baba Yaga is much older and quite frankly doesn't give two skulls about Christmas. Two skulls. She rules the 12 days, December 25th to January 5th. She's not directly tied to it, but over the years she's become more tied to it because she's considered to like rule during the winter when okay the sun is the weakest.

So she exists always, but she's strongest and most frequently seen

in the winter.

Most frequently written about regarding the winter. So now this could be a whole different episode, but there's a history of a pagan festival called Kolada that was celebrated during this time. So it's like pre-Christianity. This is in Slavic countries. Briefly though, it's very

35:00

similar to the ule or winter solstice, a time of warding off evil spirits in the darkest time of year and welcoming the new sun. And just as a little side side fun fact, um during kolata, like a way to celebrate, people would go perform ritual carolling. They'd go house to house to bless and drive away dark spirits, but they would like show up in masks and costume. And it's like one of those traditions that has kind of turned into what we now know as Christmas caroling. Wait, remember that the carolers with the We covered this one of the Christmas episodes.

Yeah,

it's in Ireland.

Well, so that's part of the Ule traditions.

A lot of them are very similar. They are like pagan traditions. [clears throat] But yes, Kolada is a little bit different than Ule, but they symbolize very similar things. Just like a regional difference. But it is important to note that while Baba Yaga rules and reigns strongest during the 12 days, she is not explicitly tied to Kolata. But many who have studied her origins and

36:00

her happenings believe that she embodies everything of the winter season. She's strongly tied to the darkest part of the year, but can appear anytime. Whenever someone crosses into the forest or into the supernatural realm, Baba Yaga can appear. And while most of us, I'll speak for myself, suffer from depression, especially running rampant in the winter when it's dark and cold and we choose to hunker down, stay inside, hibernate. Baba Yaga, she thrives.

She is winter. Winter is her season.

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encountering Baba Yaga

And so you might be wondering, well, what happens when or if you encounter

38:00

Baba Yaga swallow you whole? technical question. As communities start to eat away at some of the forests to create residences and towns and stuff like that, does she still consider that her domain, her woods, her territory?

I'm sure she puts up a real freaking fight

and doesn't make it easy, but I think she does rule. She's kind of like stuck in the woods.

Okay.

Or that's where she feels safest.

Hidden man. Baba Yaga you encounter depends on you and why you enter the woods. She does target children mostly, but this is also because in old Slavic life, children were the ones who were mostly sent into the woods to go gather things like firewood to fetch water to herd the animals, which meant that as a child, you were often alone in the woods. And Baba Yaga is basically the representation of that very real danger that they could encounter. I'll get into like the metaphors more in a bit, but sometimes these encounters in the woods

39:00

would change the children forever. They might enter the woods innocent, stareyed, and if they do return home, they might return changed, transformed. It all depended on what version of Baba Yaga they encountered.

Throughout the years and across the many iterations of stories, there are four types of Baba Yagas that seem to be most popular. And after I tell you about all four, I have a quiz for you.

Oh god.

For you to find out what Baba Yaga you are.

Oh, I like this.

Yes.

We're like 17 magazine. Like

very [laughter] I was like I just just having fun with it.

Which juicy pants are for you?

Which Baba Yaga are you? Okay. So these are the four. The devourer. I don't know why that's so hard to say. The devourer. Whoa.

Right.

Yeah.

The tester, the gatekeeper, or the helper. So we'll start with the devourer. [laughter] It sounds so wrong and it feels so wrong coming out of my mouth. But this type of Baba Yaga burns away what no longer

40:00

serves her. So basically, if someone comes into the woods with like bad intentions, she is very just. She's all about justice.

She will threaten to cook or eat those who fail her tests. And in this iteration and this encounter, her stove is like that in Hansel and Gretle, large enough for children. But [clears throat] she is not cruel or evil. She doesn't just eat and kill for the sake of it. She's very just. She only burns those who are lazy, foolish, disrespectful, or deceitful.

Then

see, that's tough because I feel like in trying to survive, deceit is like part of trying to trick the witch to let you free.

But if you're doing it for bad intentions, like if you're going into the woods to do something maybe menacing and you lie

or try to hurt her or something.

Yeah. Okay. Then there is the tester. This Babi Yaga likes to give visitors impossible tests like separating grains or retrieving supplies from dangerous places. She likes to push people to

41:00

their limits, challenging them to do more than they thought they were capable of.

So, it is kind of like

you have to pass the test to not be eaten. She's setting people up for failure in a way.

I think she's trying to make people

find the motivation within.

Yeah. Yeah. She she kind of serves as a mirror like look back at yourself and see yourself who you really are and if you don't like what you're seeing why is that

interesting because the weaver's brother in Acatar has a mirror that basically says the same thing.

Interesting.

Sarah I still haven't finished the series.

Well, it was funny cuz when you had Noah was when we were reading it for Patreon book club and I didn't love it. So I feel like I didn't keep it up.

Yeah. People are waiting for you. [laughter] Okay. The third type of Baba Yaga is the gatekeeper. And this Baba Yaga guards many things. She guards the boundary between life and death. She guards nature, specifically water and animals.

42:00

She is a physical barrier blocking those venturing where they do not belong. So in like some iterations, she's like the troll under the bridge. And if you can get past her, you earn her respect and she will gift you deeper wisdom. But other times trying to pass her makes her bear her teeth and devour you.

Great.

But if you're catching the theme here, it does seem it's a lot about respect of the land.

Yeah. And just like stay out of the forest. Don't touch her. [laughter]

Why are you there to begin with? It seems like most people don't just happen upon her. It seems like they seek her out. Some people have sought her out, but others come upon her for a reason that maybe they didn't know. Like for example, someone's venturing out into the woods and there is this like wild stream ahead that as a child you would have to cross, but first you actually in like you come in contact with Baba Yaga and her purpose is actually to prevent

43:00

you from crossing that dangerous dream because it's dangerous.

Yeah.

But you don't know that cuz you haven't reached it yet. do the wrong thing and you die by the hands of Baba Yaga when maybe you would have survived crossing the stream. Maybe. I don't know. It's all It's tricky.

Baba Yaga is a mythical creature. So, she's not necessarily killing children. I think she represents the things that were killing children or people wanted to make

a standin for it. Um, okay. But so this helper version of Baba Yaga appears when treated with respect and honor. And these usually end with pleasant endings, happy endings, and end with gifts rather than death. She will guide those who are lost, gift the magical items, bestow fire or whatever is needed. So basically, she'll either eat you or be kind and bestow knowledge upon you,

give you a magical toy.

Quiz: Which Baba Yaga Are You?

Okay, so here's the time for the quiz. I have a quiz for you,

okay? And you can all follow along, keep

44:00

track of your answers, and let us know in the comments what Baba Yaga you are. And there's also I made a like this is a three question one, but I made an eight question one for Patreon.

Ooh. So if you want if you want to take a longer quiz, okay, but question one, when someone crosses your boundaries, what are you most likely to do? A, cut them out immediately. B, test them. C. Set the boundary again but louder. Or D. Give them a chance to fix it.

A C.

Okay. I'm a D.

Yeah, I'm a C but like also an A. Like I'm a C.

I know. I was going to say

like I'll be like, "Oh, that wasn't cool." But then I will

You give second chances,

not talk to that person for like the rest of the day or whatever, but it's not forever.

Okay. But you're C.

I think I'm more C. I I start with C.

Answer with your gut.

Yeah.

Okay. I see your C. Question two. You're lost in the woods at night. A strange

45:00

hut on chicken legs approaches you. What do you do? A. Walk inside. If it eats you, that's cool. Cool way to go. B. Knock with confidence. You're prepared to face them. You think you can outsmart them. C. Circle the hut to see what you're dealing with before you enter. D. Make an offering and hope that you have something they'll want. There is no running away option. Yeah. I [laughter] was like, "What's the running?" I would probably say C.

I'm A. I was going to say you're A. 100% you're A. I'm [laughter] A. Okay. Question three. Your friend comes to you in a crisis. How do you naturally respond? A. Tell them the hard truth. No sugar coating. B. Ask them questions to help them see the answer for themselves. C. Protect them. Tell them you'll handle this and help them through it. Or D. Offer warmth, advice, and maybe a protective spell. I feel like at times I could do all of those, but B is more my my like more go-to.

Okay. But you're mostly C's. So you answered two C's, one B.

Yeah.

46:00

So mostly C's. You are the gatekeeper. You are the Baba Yaga of boundaries and thresholds. You guard what is sacred, your time, your energy, your people.

That feels right.

Yeah.

This is a good quiz, Cosmo. [laughter]

I did mostly D's.

What was your last one? D. Cuz you did D A and then what was your last one?

I'm D. So if you're mostly D's, you are the helper. You are the guardian witch. Warm in the shadows. People feel safe with you.

Oh, that's so nice.

If you're mostly A's, you are the dev devourer. God damn. You are the Baba Yaga who burns away but no longer serves. People find you intense, but they also admire you. If you are mostly bees, you are the tester. The Baba Yaga who initiates growth. You can see potential long before others do. Mhm. [clears throat] See these all like reading the descriptions they all seem positive,

right? Like I never be the devour [laughter]

cuz yes, she is portrayed as the scary witch in the woods, but she is actually

47:00

nature personified.

So like many spirits before that we've discussed, she's here to protect what we as humans disrespect. She can be both cruel and generous, wise and terrifying, indifferent and yet passionate. She's got depth and her roots date very far

origins & representation

back. So, like I said, the first known documentation of Baba Yaga is written in the 1500s, 1547. There's a book called the book of the great and terrible Sar Ivan Velvik. I said that wrong, but it's a historical religious text where there's a list of demonic evil beings and Baba Yaga is listed on this.

Now I feel kind of bad for her,

right? But she's she's just listed. So that means and it implies that Baba Yaga is a known and talked about being

in this time in the world.

So her legend now predates 1547. It's amazing that it's still talked about, you know, like I feel like so many

48:00

things are dropped off and like never talked about again,

right?

Like I'm curious like from this era what will remain because now it's inundated with records and

Right. Well, then also one thing I'm not afraid of outlets

people talk about a lot is like so because she kind of comes from like a paganish background there's also keep in mind that with Christianity they try to like wipe away a lot of the pagan practices. So they they're all these like pagan goddesses and deities that we don't hear about often,

but it's almost like Baba Yaga, while she's not specifically a pagan deity, she is like an amalgamation of those deities who were erased,

which is also cool in its own way.

Yeah.

Baba Yaga starts appearing in written texts in the 17th century when a lot of Russian scholars would go around and collect oral stories to try to document them. And then she starts appearing in a lot of folk tales. Everyone kind of agrees that she is the personification

49:00

of nature's cruelty, but is also wisdom. This old woman who is feared and revered. She symbolizes nature, mother earth, and the relationship of women to the wild, which I love that part.

Yeah.

Cuz it's kind of like the depiction of like witches, like the women naked, like dancing in a circle with their long scraggly hair. Mhm. And also, I feel like women were demonized so much that when you did something that didn't conform with societal norms, you were depicted as ugly and hideous. [clears throat]

And yet people still need you and need things that you provide. And so they still end up seeking you out,

but will spread rumors about you anyway.

Totally. And Baba Yaga survived. So above all else, she is woman. She is

feminist icon

every part a woman that society has for centuries feared. Independent, powerful, she answers to none. Truly, over the years, Baba Yaga has become a feminist icon, which I love.

Damn.

I don't think she was initially created

50:00

for that purpose. But she was so long demonized, the witch in the woods, something to be literally afraid of. But she persisted and continued to do whatever the heck she wanted. She can wreak havoc. She can help. She can heal. and she can give aid to those who seem deserving. There are two scholars, Marina Warner and Andrea John's, who have both written in depth about how Baba Yaga is like feminism. So, I'm going to give them credit because this is where a lot of this came from. But they showcase how she represents the wild anti-domemesticated woman who devours whatever no longer serves her and embodies the ungovernable woman, which I love. Mhm.

And also was another reason why I want to embody Baba Yaga moving forward in my life. But she also does symbolize the transformation from child to adult. So like I said before, like a lot of stories with Baba Yaga take place in the time where old Slavic cultures would send children out into the woods. And there were so many real life dangers that they could have faced.

Yeah.

51:00

That I think these tales were written where Baba Yaga was the standin for what they actually were experiencing and what they actually were facing. And a lot of them

bears and man.

Exactly. So some children would not return home from the woods, but if they did, they almost lost their adolescence and they had to step into adulthood. But when they lose childhood, they gain something else, right? You gain, yes, you might gain trauma, but you probably also learn lessons. You get courage. You get wisdom in some way. You learn something new that you bring into adulthood with you. And Baba Yaga is that representation. She's like, "Let me take away your childhood, but I'm going to give you a lesson to take into your adulthood."

Oh man, I feel bad for every child that ever existed all the time.

Like, I wish that you could just create

a perfect childhood.

No hurt, no harm.

I know, but it's I don't want to get into that conversation cuz it's I think about it daily.

Yeah.

But anyway, back to Baba [laughter]

52:00

Yaga. I'm going to tie this back into winter. So the way that childhood disappears, the story symbolizes winter equaling the loss of childhood.

Mh.

Where you emerge from the darkest days, but days then come longer. Like you emerge from childhood, you come into adulthood with wisdom and lessons, a little bit of a rebirth for both. And

Vasilisa the Beautiful

there are so many famous tales of Baba Yaga, but I'll just share one. Actually, there's one that's very much like Hansel and Gretle. This man encounters Babi Yaga and he like tricks her to like burning herself in the stove and he's like, "I don't know how to lay down in this. Like, show me how to." He like tricks her.

Deceit.

Deceit. Yes. Okay. Then this one is called Vasilisa the Beautiful. And it was first shared in the 19th century collection of most significant Baba Yaga tales as the story goes. And you'll recognize it kind of has Cinderella vibes. Basilisa is a young girl who is

53:00

mistreated by her stepmother and she ventures into the forest seeking fire, but she specifically goes out in search of Baba Yaga because she knows Baba Yaga has eternal flame. So, she seeks her out. Upon encountering her, Baba Yaga says she will grant the fire to Vasilisa if she completes some near impossible tasks. And she's able to complete these tasks with the help of a magical doll that her late mother had gifted her. As she works on the impossible task like sorting grain, she sees three horses and riders who gallop outside the window one after another. Upon completion, Baba Yaga is impressed, gifts Vasilisa this skull lantern that burns with eternal fire, and before returning home, Vasilisa asks who the riders were. Baba Yaga reveals that they were the day, the sun, and the night, her faithful servants. After this, Basilisa returns home and she uses the eternal fire and the knowledge she gained from Baba Yaga to destroy her stepmother. Damn. Yeah. So, a lot of her stories read like fairy

54:00

tales.

Yeah.

Like Grim's fairy tales.

That's exactly what I was just thinking.

enduring legend

So, there are many iterations of her and they've only grown in modern time. She has transcended time. She is something that people talk about still to this day. She is even mentioned in the John Wick movies.

Really?

John Wick's nickname is Baba Yaga by his enemies. [laughter]

Like basically calling him like this boogeyman.

Yeah.

She's also in the movie Spirited Away if you remember.

Oh, with the horse.

That's her.

Oh, I don't remember that.

Then Neil Gim also used her in his Sandman comics for DC.

Even her and her chicken hut.

Oh, look at her chicken hut.

Yeah. And then more recently, this anthology of short stories was released called Into the Forest. And it features 23 interpretations of the Baba Yaga character.

Wow.

All written by women horror writers. Yeah. But now to tie it up in a little bow and put it under the Christmas tree.

55:00

Baba Yaga, while doesn't really care about Christmas eggnog, she is celebrated especially during the winter season. She's a wise old woman who keeps the world honest in the darkest of times. And in Russian folklore, when she was talked about, she was often kind of faced up against Morosco, who's a winter wizard, whose name is often translated to Father Frost,

and they kind of would like battle against each other,

which is how she has become more tied into Christmas narratives over the years.

Interesting.

Yeah,

that would be a crazy Christmas movie.

Baba Yaga versus Morzoko.

Yeah. Or like Father Frost.

Yeah, there probably are Russian versions of that. Yeah,

but Baba Yaga thrives when the sun is the weakest. She tests us when the veil isn't the thinnest and when you find yourself in the darkest of times. You must face Baba Yaga before the light returns. And while facing her might not be easy, she promises to help you shed what is no longer necessary so you can emerge a new just like is symbolized

56:00

with the winter solstice. In the time of winter, you have to get through it to emerge a new in the light of the spring.

Beautiful.

Yeah, that's popular.

A lovely Christmas tail.

A little creepy, but really creepy.

Delightful.

Yeah. I mean, I didn't know how we were going to turn around and end up liking her for like a good half of that.

Do you like her now?

No, I do like her.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like what she stands for,

right? Yes.

I wouldn't necessarily want to encounter her in the woods.

I might want to be her, though.

But Exactly.

Yeah.

I want to be her. She's Call me Baba Yaga, a voracious swamp witch.

The voracious. I can't even say it.

The devourer.

The devourer.

Everyone, sit it in your home, wherever you are, your office. Say that word out loud multiple times. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel right on your mouth.

Anyway, happy holidays. [laughter]

Let us know what Baba Yaga you are in the comments if you took the quiz. and let us know what your favorite maybe lesser known Christmas holiday winter

57:00

solstice creatures and cryptids are.

Yeah, because we do this every year. So,

we do.

Give us ideas for next year.

I actually I'm excited for my one next year.

You already picked one out?

Well, cuz I was between Baba Yaga and Christmas Werewolves.

Oh, yeah. I did see that.

There's just a bunch of like little stories. It's a teaser for next year. You'll all remember that a year from now we'll be talking about Christmas werewolves unless

I change my mind which I'm allowed to do [laughter]

and we do it often.

We do. But we don't change our mind on one thing. It's that we love you all.

And we love doing this podcast

and we are never ever going to stop.

No. So we'll see you next year which will be in a couple weeks because we're taking

the holiday hiatus. But if you do join

into the woods with Baba Yaga for a couple weeks. It's funny because we do take like time off, but I feel like we work the whole time because we're preparing [laughter] for the for when we come back. We're like

And then also we have episodes that come out one week early and I'm free on Patreon and then also the Apple Plus subscription and a Patreon bonus that

58:00

comes out on Christmas. So

you have ways.

We say we're taking two weeks off, but

we're never far off.

If you find us in different platforms, we're not. [laughter]

We're creeping. We're watching you.

We're always watching. We're always watching.

I hope you encounter the dairy fairy. I know that that we both kind of picked protective beings in the woods.

Yeah,

I would rather come in contact with the dairy fairy [laughter]

for sure. Yeah,

cuz the one encounter is just a stare off and then a a scared scream and a run. Little workout classic. But yeah, we love you. Please email us any of your encounters to two girls podcastgmail.com. And if you want episodes at free and one week early, join us on Patreon plus bonus. If you want those everything we just basically said, we're on YouTube. You can watch us there.

And we hope you have a wonderful holiday.

Stay safe. Totally fine. If you don't celebrate the way everyone else does, you do you. We love you. You're part of this community

and we will see you on the other side.

59:00

Very spooky.