The Dead Helped Catch Their Killers | True Crime & Paranormal Mysteries (Ep 237)

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very spooky hi Karen yes I have so many paranormal things to tell you okay all right well to start this is two girls one Coast two girls tacos uh we are your hosts that is Karen hi I am Sabrina and I have a question for you Corinne yes did you dream of me last night I did not but I had a horrible nightmare and not about me though no why did you dream of me believe I astral traveled to you last night oh like my ass like you found me in the dream space You Were Sleeping you

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saw me what was I wearing you were under your covers so I don't know shoot I'm like how do we prove this it's happening you're getting powerful basically it was very very brief okay so I have been getting massages every week because I'm treating myself self-care it's important I'm an adult I'm spending my money how I would like to spend my money yeah you don't have to explain it to anyone everyone spends their money on different things yes so my thing is getting a massage and I felt like in a very meditative space last night that I could feel myself outside of my body so I decided I was like let's send my astral self to you Corinne this was me like this was an 80 minute massage I think for the first like 10 minutes I was getting into this meditative State and I could feel myself outside of my body and I felt like the energy of it and then I decided okay let's see what I can do and I was trying to send my astral soul to you and so I

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kept like envisioning you and I envisioned your apartment I envisioned Boston and then I was calling your name and I said it over and over and over like in my actual self I was like Corinne Corinne Corinne and then I saw you and Brian in bed and it was super blurry because I think I'm not good at this yet I'm still figuring it out but I could like see the outlines of it I kept trying to call your name and I was like I'm curious if I can prove if this actually happened so I wanted to know if you dreamed of me or if you heard your name being called at all last night anyway it was really brief and then I got home from the massage I was gonna fall asleep so easily but I have not been sleeping well lately and I think it's because I can feel like I don't think my soul is resting like I truly feel like I'm astral projecting at night or I'm hovering above my body like I don't think I'm fully projecting and traveling yet but I I'm tapping in I'm tuning in oh wait I'm devastated that I

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didn't I mean maybe I did but I don't remember I'll try it again tonight yeah I feel like now that I know this I'm going I'm going to really pay attention to my dreams because I I really didn't sleep for the past like four or five days I didn't sleep well either and I was like tossing and turning and barely asleep at all what's up I feel like that's a thing lately like what's up in the air because multiple people I've talked to I don't know I've said that is it because Taylor Swift is in Los Angeles and the energy is whack did you see that all of those reports being like Taylor Swift is saving the economy really oh my gosh people are flooding to whatever cities and towns that she's playing in and it's just like the local economy is just booming for a short period of time when she's there and it's a really helping a lot of places out which I'm like that's incredible she should just always be on tour I I will say in seeing Taylor extend her tour and do what she's doing it makes me feel

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like we can we got this with our tour which by the way this episode comes out September 3rd our first show is in four days four days yeah I mean the amazing it's just I've never speechless been to anything that Taylor Swift has done I've never been to a concert but seeing all the clips I'm just like geez like she's she's a performer and she also cares for all the people I was reading about her uh tipping her drivers for the tour like between 100 and 200k which I'm like good for her like that is someone that you want to High Praise High Praise for her her choices oh my gosh Sabrina I can't

Astral projection experiences

get past this whole potential astral projecting you don't remember anything about like do you remember the room do you remember what I was wearing you don't remember anything like that I was trying really hard to focus in on things but it really was pretty blurry like I could focus I could see you in Brian's shapes like it felt like I was

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stretching you know like I wasn't fully there so in that regard it's probably why like I didn't actually make contact but the fact that I was able to visualize and experience that I'm close I'm getting there and someone recently tagged me in a thing and I wish I had it saved but someone tagged me on an Instagram reel and it was all about how when your frequency is vibrating or your energies are vibrating at a certain frequency there are symptoms there are side effects one of them is being invisible to others around you really that is really interesting do you feel like you've been exceptionally invisible recently because I feel like you've been working so much on taking up space I've been inside a lot lately or I've been alone a lot lately which is kind of nice but um I'll I'll walk the streets later today and let you know see what it what comes your way it is interesting I feel like I love the age of internet and

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Tick Tock and all of that for the purposes of learning so much more about other people's beliefs and just kind of testing out different things when it comes to like spirituality and witchiness and seeing what feels right for me and I love all the vibrational theories and and all of that where it's like we're all just at certain frequencies and how frequencies affect you and yeah it's made me want to wear I was watching a video the other day that was like about fabrics and how certain Fabrics affect your body and how energy and and like healing frequencies can enter and exit your body and I was devastated to find out that bamboo ranks really low on the list because I feel like half of my clothes my pajamas my sheets everything is bamboo because it's so soft and I love it and then they were like oh the superior one is really it's like 100 cotton or linen and I'm like Lennon makes me itchy half the time in terms of being a conduit yeah basically for for keeping your body like this is

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the spiritual side of things where it's like keeping your body at a frequency where you like feel good and are able to basically like manifest and unlock different things in the universe but if you wear certain other things like a polyester or a bamboo fabric which is all my wardrobe then it's much harder to get past that it was basically saying like you will remain sad I was like no the linen to challenge that I would argue and this is from zero knowledge or understanding I would say that it's person dependent right because I have I have a very I'm very sensitive to certain Fabrics textures touches and like feelings so if I'm wearing something like linen I cannot wear I it it like I feel in my blood boil when I wear it anyway I think people have just

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different physical reactions and feelings and then bamboo is a plant so as a green witch which I very much believe that you are Korean shoes and plant related objects and feelings and things Fabrics would actually be beneficial for you yeah well thank you and that's science and that's science Sabrina so in science wow okay well here my goal is to also attempt to astral project because if you are close to mastering it and I begin my journey on it now imagine how many places we can go together in the astral plane like you and I just meet every night and we're like let's go here let's go there let's experiment here let's talk to the ghosts there and go on adventures we can go on adventures that's what I'm hearing I love it I love a good a nightly Adventure where my physical body does not have to do any work I have okay I have so many more things to say but real quick so we're about to

Live tour investigation

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Venture onto this new Journey which is the two girls one ghost fall tour an investigation into The Conjuring house and I feel like we have recently been getting a lot of questions like what is the show and what do you mean an investigation into The Conjuring house it can be confusing I figured before I share two more Ghost Stories We Tell a little bit about the show so we're going on tour we're going on tour from September 7th until November 5th okay we just added a second Wesley Chapel show in Florida and by the time this comes out we may have added a couple more second shows if that's the case you still have a chance to get tickets we'd love to see you Karin and I went and did an overnight investigation at The Conjuring house we're not going to give away too much because there's so much that we're going to dive into in the actual show but we did a ton of research our research went beyond just being at the conjuring house so this is like an investigative journalist

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type extensiveness in terms of research we interviewed people we read books we went to historical societies like we dove in and there is audio videos photos so much mixed media in combination with Karin and I just being spooky um that we will that we have put together for this show it is going to be fun it is also going to be scary and there are so many surprises along the way we can't wait to uh get even more haunted with all of you because we inevitably will become or will be leaving this tour with more ghosts than we started with oh I think absolutely and also just as a reminder Sabrina said it before and people are starting to send stuff to our P.O box but Sabrina she's now open to collecting haunted things so if you have a haunted item

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that you're looking to part with you can bring it and Sabrina will collect it and I will shake in my boots and I think are you going back on that now no no here's the only caveat is bring it to the show if you would like I will have to interact with it before deciding whether or not oh okay like I want to you know not just blindly taking your haunted thing yeah it's like right I want your demons I have enough of my own yeah but if you are curious about the show if you want to come see us hang out at a theater and and have a fun spooky night with us you can find tickets to the show basically on all social channels they're linked and our website is twogirls1ghost.com if you are listening to the podcast right now or if you're watching it on YouTube if you click that show more in the show notes or the description you will also see a link to our website where you can buy tickets correct YouTube though you can't like link things which is annoying if you

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like link it in the video yeah you just URL I do have other ghost stories but I'm going to share them in the next recording that we have because I'm cliffhanging everyone it's a cliffhanger uh tune in in two weeks because that's the we're recording all out of order right now in preparation for the tour so check back in two weeks for the ghost stories and then also last thing while we are on tour we are going to be visiting so many haunted places and doing a bunch of fun buddy best friend things um aka me wearing scary things in the morning and creeping you out Korean while we're sleeping yeah we're sharing hotel rooms so you guys will be the first to know if I have to get my own room if someone scares me too much but that being said we're gonna share a bunch of stuff on patreon so if you want to follow along with like Vlogs and daily updates and stuff you can join us on patreon great okay I have a multitude of stories for you Karen oh wow okay I'm

The Greenbrier ghost

very curious because you had texted me a few days ago and you're like I'm doing a full-on pivot I'm changing what I'm researching and so not that I had peaked

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at what you were doing before but I feel like I knew a little bit and now I know nothing so here's the thing I had researched an entire episode and I had it researched and it was sitting there and then and I was reviewing my notes in preparation for this recording and I was just like this is a bummer and my gut was like let's pivot let's do something a little less of a bummer and I pivoted and it's still a little bit of a bummer but it's cool so trigger warning this episode does involve tragic murders and some gruesome deaths and details okay that being said there is a lot of Justice in this episode which was what I was excited about amazing so the first version of this episode was going to be um more of a true crime case where a spirit of a victim haunted their killer into confessing of the murder so I stayed kind of in that vein and back in

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like early days current like 2017 I think it was actually it was it was episode two I wrote it down Zona Easter shoe which was yes this story she sees the infamous Greenbrier ghost she is a woman who came back from the dead to solve her own murder and put her killer Behind Bars and then you covered Tara Sita Bassa yes yes nice memory episode 177 yes well I mean they're the two women who basically solved their own murders from Beyond the Grave it's hard not to sear their their names into our memories because yeah there are tough topics but they're it's really fascinating yes and we recently had a conversation with a couple people who I'm not going to share who because I don't want to spoil the content for the tour but they had a relationship with Lorraine Warren of Ed and Lorraine Warren and they told us a story about how Lorraine was brought in

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to help with a police investigation of a murder and she was taken to the crime scene and upon stepping into the crime scene she knew who did it she knew all of the details she could based on the suspect's point and say that was that's the person and if you confront him about it he will confess because he has been bearing the guilt and sure enough she was correct and this man confessed so I was just like all of this combined I was like this probably happened so much more often than we think or then is publicly spoken about so I wanted to read more more so I found a couple stories of I think it was I think it's three or four stories that I will go into okay so Zona Houston shoe The Greenbrier Ghost came back to solve her own murder in 1897 it was the first and perhaps only case in which testimony from a ghost helped convict a murderer but ghosts have been coming back to help solve their murders

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far before this and even far beyond this so I don't know if I'm ever murdered I will come back I hope you're not murdered but if you are I will I will do whatever I can to help your spirit break through oh you will solve my case for sure if you did if I was okay so I believe that spirits and people will continue to come back to help solve crimes so my first story for today's episode actually predates Zona Easter shoe it goes all the way back to 1827 so 50 years before Zona history Maria Martin grew up in polstead so Oak it's a small town in England and when she was 25 she met a young man named William quarter quarter was 22 and the two felt deeply madly in love I think Maria at the time had a child from a previous relationship who she was not married to quarter was kind of new in town he was Whimsical like he was

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Charming charismatic and so Maria fell in love she was so smitten with William he was great to her kid they began to speak of marriage they made plans to run away together ugh I feel like there's a romantic Montage going in my mind's eye right now if the two of them together it sounds so lovely I'm just gonna go ahead and say it is not lovely oh okay I should have guessed this is kind of the the vein of our podcast right this was this is a relationship that very much would be or would have been featured on a podcast like something was wrong um oh gosh yeah okay so in 1827 William and Maria actually had a child together out of wedlock very sadly the child died in infancy and obviously Maria was heartbroken and she was so worried that William would no longer want to marry her but he insisted he absolutely did in fact he wanted to marry her even more

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now and then he starts to tell Maria and her family that he's really worried because he heard a rumor that local authorities are coming after Maria for having another child out of wedlock which oh given the times I guess it is I don't know necessarily all of history in that time or that place but based on what minimal knowledge I do have I do know that like you know having a kid out of wedlock was looked down upon or anyway quarter says there's a rumor that authorities want to arrest Maria and it was believable so clearly it was something that was believable in the time yes so he quarter shows up to Maria's family she he's in front of Maria her father Thomas and then Maria's stepmother Ann Martin and William proposes to Maria he's like let's sweep you off your feet I'll bring you to

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um if Ipswich and evade all criminal charges and we'll get married and live our wonderful life we'll have uh I know we lost our kid but we'll have another fan we'll have another one we'll start our family and we'll live happily ever after so the family's sitting there listening to William proposed to Maria telling her of this whole plan he's like we're gonna go meet at the Red Barn there they would get married and the two of them would travel to Ipswich So the plan was supposed to happen that night it was a Wednesday night and he was like Andiamo toot sweet uh bye bye let's go let's make this happen but then he pushes it he's like uh I I need more time to organize all the details let's do it Thursday and then on Thursday morning he's like wait um tomorrow what the heck yeah he's all over the place what does it matter to him he can just get married and then figure out your travels after right right so I don't really understand he's all over the place and all of a sudden one day he

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arrives to Maria's home in a panic he's flustered he's like we have to go right now the local Constable has a warrant for your arrest Maria we have to go right now and obviously Maria is terrified and so is her family William's like it's gonna be okay we we've got this and then he tells her to dress in Disguise to wear the attire of a man so that people don't recognize her so Maria did what he said she put on the attire of a man and she meets William at the red barn and Martin who is Maria's stepmom was like kind of worried you know this is all happening so quickly she's concerned she doesn't know what's happening and she also doesn't hear from her daughter because it's 1827 there's not as readily easily available ways to communicate with one another and so she's like Maria left I gave her a kiss goodbye really hope her and William got away okay a little while later Ann and Maria's dad Thomas are

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like we should have heard from Maria by now like if they got married and went to Ipswich she would have written a letter yeah how far away are Ipswich and Suffolk from each other it's a good I'm gonna look it up because not that I know how quickly letters traveled at the time yeah but I am curious let me know also let's look at kitty real quick she's like drunk off my arm look at her oh look she's so cute she's so cute oh oh my gosh it is so close Okay so Suffolk to Ipswich in the United Kingdom it is 14 miles okay that's by car it says 22 minutes and that's to like dead center of Ipswich dead center of Suffolk so yeah okay well it was 1827 roads are different transportation's different um access to transportation is different so anyway Ann and uh Thomas are a little concerned and then they see William Porter he's in town he's back in Suffolk

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Suffolk and so they're like where's Maria and he's like oh Maria is in Ipswich we're married and we're living on the Isle of white so Ann and Thomas are super happy to hear this but Anne's like I want to see Maria I want to speak to her like surely enough time has passed they can return home right right but William's like no no not yet it's not safe I don't feel safe yet and it's around this time that Anne starts to have really weird dreams she starts to dream of Maria and it felt as if Maria is trying to communicate with her and told her husband of her concerns but Thomas was like no it's okay and then shortly thereafter they start to receive letters from William and Maria and they wrote saying all is well Ann and Thomas would write back and asked to get letters from Maria herself because she knew how to read and write she could write to her parents but very clearly the responses were written by William because of the handwriting and

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in every response William would say oh Maria has a headache oh um Maria's wrist hurts she can't write today or oh the letter she wrote probably got lost in the mail all right my chest is literally tightening right now hearing this because I feel like this is just a red flag after red flag and this feels like a story that unfortunately we do here a lot in True Crime yeah and murder cases so oh my gosh I can't imagine and Anne's dreams continue they become more and more intense and Maria appears to her in her dreams looking stolen and sad and now is certain that something bad had happened to Maria and in one of her dreams Anne finds herself in the Red Barn which is the same Barn that William had told Maria to meet him at and that's where they were going to get married and before they went off to Ipswich so in the dream Maria looks at Anne and then she looks

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to a specific spot on the floor at the red barn and points and understood what it meant she woke up immediately and begged Thomas they had to go to the red barn and dig in that spot after some convincing on April 19th of 1828 Thomas and Anne go to the red barn with some shovels they dig in one of the grain storage bins and Thomas very quickly discovered and uncovered the devastating truth his daughter Maria Martin was dead she never made it out of polstead so Thomas and Ann discovered a sack with remains and despite being badly decomposed Maria was still able to be identified based on her clothing and apparently she had a missing tooth and the remains had that same missing tooth they also discovered a green handkerchief wrapped around Maria's neck

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which was the key piece of evidence because that handkerchief belonged to can you guess the same but yeah William William quarter here's the thing as soon as I knew he was going to be the murderer I immediately removed his name from my memory great yeah with this evidence and the letters William had written to the family pretending Maria was alive and well with him they were like okay wait we know who the Killer is um only one problem he is nowhere to be found eventually the police track him to a boarding house for ladies in Brentford because William had remarried and now he owned this boarding house for women with his new wife so basically in their research and in finding him they found that pretty much right after killing Maria he posts an advertisement in multiple newspapers for lonely hearts basically that like his heart is broken and he needs someone to fill the void of his past love so that

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is how he met his new wife okay he also was such a terrible criminal because despite denying his involvement he had in his possession the pistol believed that was used to murder Maria and a series of letters that like deliberately and outwardly incriminated in himself like him saying that he committed the crime and also do we know the why so the Y is not clear he was taken to trial and found guilty but he the entire time continued to say and stay his innocence until August 11 1828 which was the day of his execution he was to be hanged for his crimes and he finally admitted that he did in fact kill Maria so I think it was a bit of like repenting before his death rather than the truth coming out as to why it's odd behavior to to vehemently deny murdering someone when

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you pretended that they were alive you wrote letters from them and yes I understand that people grieved differently and there's different trauma responses when something horrible happens and and there's a death of someone in the same room as them or that they loved but it sounds like because he was asking her to meet him in the red barn and then kept pushing it and delaying it it sounds like he was maybe not expecting her to agree so quickly or maybe hadn't fully thought out his his plan and then was delaying it so that he could prepare for whatever he nefarious activity he had planned yeah I mean so he definitely was a con man so that I think that's the biggest thing is in his history they and I didn't go too deep into it but he was wanted for other crimes and it was mostly the financial crimes and so I wonder if because his running and blaming it on Maria I think very much was because of something he was running away from rather than Maria and he wanted Maria to come with him and

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maybe perhaps she caught on to it or like when they were about to leave they got into an argument and he killed her I'm not sure do we know what the motivating factor was to open up this home for women with his new wife his wife I think she wanted to do it and I also think he's a bit of a skeevy womanizer yeah I wasn't sure if there was like another a play here I guess with maybe maybe he got caught before he could finish the end of the I don't know but that's all to say that if it were not for Maria's spirit and Anne Martin having these dreams of her spirit who knows if Maria and her body would have ever been found or if her killer would have ever been caught also this is a fun fact and that's a small fun fact but back on episode 142 I told the story of the spring healed Jack which was a massive case in England in

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London one of the investigators on this case on the Maria Martin case was James Leah who was the same London police officer who went on to lead the spring healed Jack investigation so I just thought that was cool he had some Infamous cases going on here oh yeah lots going on spookies Spirit centered cases as well it does break my heart though that I mean this is one of those things where like her mom had the message come to her right like she had this extreme gut feeling so much that it pulled her physically along with her spouse to go dig up and find her daughter and so it does it's one of those things where not that I need to know how or why but it is the Curiosity in me where it's like was it the daughter coming through somehow and giving her mom messages or was her mom just so incredibly connected and it's sort of like the mother's intuition thing where she just yearned

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for her daughter so much that she she just was open to receiving these messages however they came through yeah I mean I bet a little bit of both had to be true in order for the messages to come through and for Maria because Maria Spirit or the dream version of Maria like very clearly kept showing up and was like trying to get the message across but couldn't and as time was going she finally was able to like point to this space and bring Anne to the Red Barn in the dream and be like it's here I'm here oh my gosh wow so my next story I'm gonna fast forward to 1933. this is

Romeo and Juliet ghost

a story of Rose McCloskey she was 19 years old and this is a very real Romeo and Juliet type of situationship she was 19. and deeply madly in love with a 29

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year old whose name was Dennis Boyle but Dennis is 10 years older than Rose yes and so Rose's Family is a little bit they're like we really like Dennis we think he's a great man we think he really loves Rose but it's just not age appropriate we don't approve of this aged Gap it feels inappropriate I mean she's also I know that we consider 18 as entering adulthood but it's teen 18 she's 18 19. she's a teen so they basically forbid Rose from seeing Dennis but Forbidden Love furthermore desired Rose and Dennis get engaged in secret they plan to elope and then once they were married they plan to tell their friends and family they were not going to run off they were not going to like go live somewhere else they were very much like we're just gonna get married that way it's legal there's nothing our family can do about it once we are married they will have to accept us unfortunately just like Romeo and Juliet This Love Story does not have a happily ever after on January 4th 1933 Rose and

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Dennis snuck off to a park for a romantic evening together they were making out when very sadly someone attacked them oh a mysterious person hit Dennis over the head knocking him unconscious and then attacked young Rose bludgeoning her to death with a rock oh my gosh this is such a Lover's Lane situation this is horrible yeah and then the killer split Rose's throat a group of guys stumble upon Dennis as he's like crawling incoherently looking for help he's clearly concussed like he's confused he like these these guys think he's drunk but then he's like no I need help I need help paramedics arrive and Rush him to the hospital and sadly Rose did not survive apparently oh this is so tragic one of the details I read on this story was Dennis was so heartbroken and when they told him the news of rose's death in the hospital his screams and

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his wailing and heartbroken cries were heard throughout the Halls no it's so heartbreaking so because of this plus Dennis's injuries they ruled him out very quickly as a suspect they were like we don't we don't believe he did this even Rose's Family like I said I know given the first story Maria's story it might have made you think that Dennis was responsible in this one but no despite the indifferences in the family not really approving of the relationship they did really think Dennis was a great man so if it was Dennis who was it six months passed with no break in the case until all of a sudden this is six months after Rosa's death and murder when a man named Thomas Berry shows up to the police station and he's like Rosa's spirit appeared to me and everyone's looking ahead I'm like oh my God get out you drunk man get out and he's like no I know he's like I am fully coherent I have my wits about me I haven't had a

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sip of alcohol tonight I swear to you her spirit arrived and appeared to me and he goes on to explain that he was at home and he saw a woman in his home and he was like very confused and he sees what he then determined to be Rose in this like spectral fashion and she raised her arms kind of just like looking at him intently and raised her arms and when she did that he was given these images from the night of her murder from her POV oh I have chills yeah so Rose was like which you might be asking like why did she show up to Thomas like what what is this about Rose knew something that no one else did she knew that Thomas knew something because Thomas Berry was at the park on the evening of Rose McCloskey's death oh my gosh I just got chills again right and this is why it's like so wild

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because like rose living Rose would never have known that she was busy with Dennis like she didn't see Thomas she didn't know Thomas was there but in the afterlife she knew Thomas was there and that he had a piece of information that would solve her murder so that night the same night of rose's murder Thomas had been in that Park and he had like kind of been passing through with a I think he had his own date with him and he had seen a strange man kind of like following a couple and he like made note of it it felt weird to him he was like that's like a weird distance that this man is coming from he could describe like he could see the man but he didn't think much of it like you know people are drinking walking through the park yeah and as he's heading out he hears a scream but he didn't think much of it like it it was late like were people drunk and fooling around he doesn't know and it was not until Rose's Spirit arrived and showed herself to him this day six months after her death did he put it all together so he went to the police with this story and was able to

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describe in detail the man that he had seen following the couple and with this the cops were able to identify and arrest a man named Richard Bach Jr who had a bunch of priors he fit the profile like to a T and within a couple of hours confessed to murdering Rose and assaulting Dennis on the evening of January 4th 1933. wow I have so many questions too about was this this man's only crime do you know any details about his motive what he did why yeah I didn't write this down but so he apparently had seen them be in love and it made him Furious and he snapped and he I mean who knows the psychological profile that you can go into on this man but love and the idea of love was a trigger for him I guess and so he in his rage struck on by

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seeing other people in love and happy he killed Rose so okay so it was he didn't personally know them at all he just happened to be there was clearly very ill yeah very very yeah and got it apparently he had no remorse and when he confessed he was like yeah I did the world a favor because love basically saying like lovers should all die oh my god oh very very horrible but Justice four Rose because Rose was able to come back in spirit form and I also love that in stories like this that the people that they go to trust the Vision Trust what they're seeing and hearing and actually do something about it because I feel like it is probably so difficult unless it's your own child it is probably so difficult for someone like that man to

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convince himself that he should go into the place and be like I saw a ghost and she's telling me how she was murdered like you are putting yourself in a position to be laughed at to never be trusted again to be made a fool but none of those things is worse than someone's murder so I think it is important that people who have that information do come forward but then it's another one of those confusing conflicting things where it's like there are so many people so many psychics that do work with the police force do work with the FBI yeah and then there's probably just as many people that think that they're getting a message and that it's it's kind of convoluting it conflicts with evidence it doesn't actually add anything it's just it's distracting from from what is the truth but it's it's hard how do you differentiate right I mean that's why they have tip lines right because it's like if you can who knows even if it's not real it's a lead worth following and maybe it does end up being and the only

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way to know if it's a real thing is if it's checked out anyway yeah what's interesting about this too is that Thomas very easily could have gone into the PlayStation and said like I just remembered I was in the park the night of rose's death but he chose to say her spirit visited me which I think is interesting maybe just who he is as a person or maybe there was another message that we the public don't know and that he gave to Dennis or something I don't know but I'm also curious because it took six months and I wonder if that was Rose trying to find out who else was there like rose was running an investigation on the Paranormal like on in the afterlife or if there were other witnesses as well that Rose was trying to make contact with and they were not able to view it as something like they they didn't take it the way that Thomas did you know and also I mean we can't necessarily speak for for Thomas because we don't know what his motive was or the reason for him admitting to seeing her spirit

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versus just saying I have a bit of information but I would also I'm gonna make an assumption and I I assume that perhaps he had more information from her spirit than we know and he realized for him to be for him to so give the information he needs to and for it to be trusted he'd have to give additional information which if he knows that information perhaps he could have been looked at as a suspect and only the killer would know that you're going conspiracies here I know I can't help it no no I mean all I will say is it's tragic all of this and it's heartbreaking that I even that we even are sharing these stories and that you know they exist because ideally there is no murder and ideally we don't have ghosts coming back from Beyond to solve their own murders yeah well and it is sad to think that certain Spirits are burdened with the responsibility of

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solving their own murder you know that they they can't just fully find peace and move on and forget about this life and all the negative parts of it that they do stay but it makes me wonder like is that because they're staying because they want to solve it they have to for some reason or is it for the benefit of other people that they left behind that they know that those people need that closure not that we don't always need and want closure but there's just something else keeping them there and that's the hard thing right because there's so many unsolved cases and so many cold cases like it's devastating to think or do you even like the to just know that there's nothing we can do about those like that we can't communicate with the dead we can't get the answers like these cases did but at least and this is the glimmer of hope and I guess bright side of this episode is

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that at least these cases there was Justice and there are answers and while there are so many other cases that don't have this closure I am glad that these ones do these ones do yeah I also think it's yes I'm glad that these ones do I also find myself both so curious about people who try to make contact with the spirit world in order to Aid cases that are cold cases or just Active cases in general but simultaneously feeling icky that there are these people you know I could be one easily with like my own Spirit Box having no relationship with the family or the people and I'm asking questions about their missing loved one so it's I both find myself so fascinated and eager to get an answer from the other side but then also I'm like oh gosh but this doesn't feel right yeah but okay this is a great segue

Psychic detective work

because I'm about to share two stories of cases that have been solved through

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paranormal intervention not specifically by the ghost but because of psychic mediums oh okay and yeah we've heard countless stories of like on the news where there are people and even in the like Gabby Gabby potato I was thinking about her with the first one yeah where there were a lot of people saying like psychics coming forward saying like I know the answer and I spoke to Gabby and it's like there's a question of do they really truly believe that are they actually or are they monetizing or gaining some type of self gratification or self Fame whatever it may be because it's like a it's like I see Buzzy story which is Icky because it does also seem like there are some real psychics who work privately with investigators but that's that's the key right there it's like privately with the investigators and with the family it's not going Live on YouTube and Tick Tock right and a lot of people I mean I don't

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know if this is like across the board but of the psychic mediums that we have communicated with if the people who do tarot readings and all of that they will not reach out to you and ask you for money yes they so like and there's a lot of people out there who like mimic them Michelle T being one no matter good child they will never ask you for money even I saw on Dana newkirk's Instagram the other day there was a someone was trying to imitate her I reported that account yeah did you good yeah yeah unfortunately people that do work within the industry and do have a lot of intuition they are their identities preyed upon because there's a lot of people like us included we want to believe we want to experience things we want answers and so if someone's like hey I have all the answers I pulled these cards for you and this message you wouldn't believe but it will unlock all of the answers that you've been having over the past two years depending on who you are you might find yourself be like okay now like well I don't usually give

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things for free like if you want to just give a donation wouldn't you part of you be like okay I could just give it to I'll just give them 10 bucks and find out those are those are spam someone is it's the prince emailing you for money situation don't fall for it to play Devil's Advocate real quick like and if you hear any background noise that is not a ghost it is someone hammering something because I live in a city um city life but to play Devil's Advocate and you kind of brought this up earlier is like if you do feel like you get a message from someone like it does bring up complicated feelings and like I'll share a kind of non-specific example when one of our friends passed away I had a dream about them and it very much felt like an actual encounter with this friend of ours but I had to weigh like can is it something worth telling people

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or do I keep it to myself is it my way of coping was it a real experience is there any benefit in sharing this like how will people react to it is it going to upset and Trigger other people we're trying to heal yes so I ended up keeping it between you and I Corinne because it just you know it wasn't like and this is not like oh it was an unsolved murder or anything it was just more of a brief moment in a dream where I felt like I communicated with her and it but it did bring up challenging emotions and concerns and I was like okay so in that regard plain Devil's Advocate if you do end up having an interaction with a spirit of a murder victim or of someone involved in a crime like it does bring up questions it's like what if this could help but also what if this could really hurt and how do I yeah process that and determine what to do with that information so I will share two stories this is cases solved through paranormal intervention by way of Psych mediums and

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the first story is of Elizabeth Cornish so on August 8th of 1987 42 year old Elizabeth Cornish of Belvedere New Jersey was very sadly Beat to Death at Chile in her own bed with leads drying up in the case growing cold Elizabeth's sister requested to bring in a psychic medium to help with the investigation so this is interesting because she specifically sought help and I don't know how she was connected to this psychic medium but she requested that Nancy Weber come in to help Nancy Weber is I mean she could have a podcast of her own or like an entire episode dedicated just to her on our podcast because she very clearly has a long history and an extremely long resume of paranormal intervention psychic work she apparently as a little kid was called little witch by her friends and family so

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So High Praise yeah I pray seriously so this case the Elizabeth Cornish case was not her first work her first time helping police so basically when the police heard that Nancy Weber was going to be the psychic helping they were like okay we know her we trust her we've actually worked with her before Nancy was brought to the crime scene and she knew public details of the case but nothing else she didn't know the suspect less she didn't know who they had talked to or who they had cleared but as soon as she enters the apartment she turns to look at the investigator and said the evil is upstairs whatever happened had to come from upstairs she continued around and looks around the place starts to describe the suspect she goes the man has a scar on his face and he wears a large belt buckle with the initials J R on it okay that's very specific three things it came from upstairs man with a scar on his face large belt buckle Jr

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initials man that's like so many Clues right even if you had a thousand suspects I feel like there should only be one maybe five most who probably fit that yeah so the cops were like shocked because the man who lived above Elizabeth Cornish his name was John Reese J R ooh not looking good for John he was a 31 year old Farm worker who lived directly above Elizabeth the only problem was that they had already spoke to him he had an alibi and he passed a polygraph but Nancy's like no I know it is him something is wrong he is the Killer and so there's something in here that is not correct about the crime it also really I feel like most of those things passing the polygraph but it doesn't really matter those things aren't reliable and then who who and what is The Alibi because that could easily crack so Nancy

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comes in even more to help out well first of all John Reese does have a scar on his face and has the belt buckle that Nancy described like how would Nancy know any of these things to start and then second Nancy's like I'm so certain of this and as she's spending more time in the crime scene she goes your time of death is incorrect and she's insistent you need to re-examine the body and have the autopsy done again and sure enough they re-examine the body and the coroner whoa and the coroner the coroner the corner I can't I'm done I'm heading out I said they made a mistake the time of death was actually Four out four four hours earlier than previously determined that's such a long period of time oh and whatever his name is JR upstairs he probably was shaking in his belt buckle

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for a few minutes before realizing they were asking him about a time where he actually did have an alibi and then he's like oh my God I'm gonna get away with it and sure enough he did not have an alibi for the correct time of death and they speak to him again they interrogate him further he finally gets caught up in so many lies now with this change time of death and he ultimately confesses so the next and last story I have

First psychic witness

is um is actually a story about a woman a first it is the first psychic to ever be placed on a witness stand in a murder trial Rosary Kerr wait what is her name Rosemary Kerr Rosemary Kerr she um passed away in 2015 at the age of 80. but her Aid and guidance in many cases has not gone unforgotten I also like want to do tons of research just into her as a person individually but I'm going to speak specifically about this

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case that was the first time a psychic was placed on a witness stand on June 9th of 1987 27 year old New Orleans resident Andre Daigle met a friend for dinner and a few rounds a pool which turned into a long night of drinking after which Andre was never seen again with the news of Andre's disappearance his sister Elise McKinley who lived in Southern California was like I don't think he disappeared and the police are not investigating this because they believe it's just like a missing person they don't think there was any Foul Play and she was convinced that her brother had been attacked and was in severe Danger so she sought the help of Rosemarie Kerr and she went to New Orleans and picked up where the police had left off and apparently before going to New Orleans when Rosemary met with Elise Elise showed a picture of Andre and rosemary

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apparently put her hand on the photo and immediately sensed that he was dead what a horrible feeling to get when you have that ability you probably hope so much that whatever you feel is something good that you have an answer to bring this person back for the family and instead you're just like oh my gosh I'm about to deliver the worst news yeah she was able to in that moment identify where Andre's body would be found wow was able to draw a map for the police and sure enough in the exact spot that she had identified Andre's body was discovered he had been murdered and with her help they were able to convict two men who ended up testifying that they killed Andre for sport what yeah told myself I was gonna stop swearing but I want to swear so badly right now because this is so disturbing and absolutely deserves wearing oh my God

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super up it's like the most dangerous game ew oh yeah this actually okay I wasn't a share so I have two ghost stories that I I'm gonna share one the next episode but this leads nicely really grotesquely into one of the stories okay and it's not really a ghost story it's more of disturbing so we have talked about Slenderman before and like the true case of these two girls who believed so deeply in the Slender Man myth lore Legend whatever you want to call it that they stabbed their friend however many times with scissors luckily she survived but uh a girl a friend of mine was telling me a story she's a kindergarten teacher at an elementary school and she the kids were at recess when all of a sudden she sees these like three kids pinning down another kid and yelling we're sacrificing you to say in

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like all of what yeah so these kids were sacrificing a classmate where did they see this right so luckily she was able to intervene they didn't have any weapons they weren't actually being violent they were just whole I mean it's violent she comes no we're saving her so and she goes she's like I had to email their parents and tell them that they were practicing demonic rituals during recess oh my God can you imagine I was like where did these kids learn that where did they learn that but apparently it never happened again so okay clearly talk to them and yeah kids are safe and unharmed they all got bathed in some holy water and yeah what the heck some I know kids like Sage smoke absorb everything in here everything and with the access to the internet now like who knows what they are watching when we're not watching them but my gosh like

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kindergarteners that they're five years old what babies babies that is freaky yeah man see this is I mean are we that shocked we were Toys R Us tried to sell us glow-in-the-dark Ouija boards and sparkly Ouija boards and tie-dye Ouija boards since we were five too so yeah that's true it's just shocking being this old and hearing that I'm like no the children not the children but I probably played the same thing you definitely did you were creepy um yeah so that is my episode on crimes Fall From Beyond the Grave it is a little bit of gbi ghost Bureau of Investigation we have an afterlife Bureau incredible though it's just so wild that there are so many stories like there's both so many stories and not nearly enough stories right because it's

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such a rarity that we hear of a story where there was spiritual intervention to whether it be through a psychic or through a spirit coming from Beyond the Grave to help solve a crime or a murder I feel like that is such a rare story but the fact that you just covered four and we'd previously done two questionably three because there was there was I think there was like a Bear Lake or not Bear Lake but something something like that that was a little bit similar that we did one time the fact that we have a hand over a handful of stories to discuss like this is just incredible to me more than anything these are evidence undeniable evidence of the Paranormal how can you hear these stories hear a story of a woman who's a psychic putting a hand on a photo of a person she's never met before and being able to draw a map to his body

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how how do you like how else do you explain that aside from there is something Beyond us that we do not understand that there is an energy of the universe that some people can tap into that we are energy and our Spirits live on after our physical bodies don't I'm also so curious about how it works for someone like that who clearly has the psychic abilities is it something that they can always do so could they be involved in a hundred cases of missing people every single month or is this something where sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't if you drain your energy too much it won't work and so they only take on one caseload a month or something because otherwise information gets jumbled and they're not able to successfully help like that is something that I'm so curious about like what is the what's the threshold for someone like this because I would think that the ability that woman has and so many other psychics because I

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have definitely heard stories of people who work with law enforcement regularly to help find people with such accuracy I'm like why what stops us from using those people for literally everything good question but then also like psychologically if you are a psychic who has helped solve a case do you then get in your own way because you did help in that one you think you can again and you really want to but wanting to so badly actually impedes your ability to and then if you you know misunderstand some type of communication then you kind of hurt your own reputation and it's just like oh it's such a complicated it's all very complex it is I guess we have to reach out to someone who was on one of these cases I feel like a shot in the dark let's email I sent an email to

1:00:00

the woman that Medium was actually based off of because I got her book on Audible oh and I started listening to it and so I sent an email and she never responded so that's okay maybe she listens and she's like oh my gosh I'll check my SPAM I don't know these two girls one ghost might go to your spam here here's the thing we can let's just email once a year every year every person that we want to talk to and maybe one year someone will yeah someone will notice and answer her yeah okay well I have a

Haunted college stories

story from a listener this was sent in from Sarah it is called Haunted college town bodies under the porch Shadows climbing the walls oh so I thought it was appropriate for this episode hi Corinne and Sabrina let me start by saying I've never been a fan of podcasts but I could listen to you guys all day I started listening to your podcast last month and I'm currently on episode 39 so I have a lot of catching up to do well

1:01:00

Sarah I hope we don't get worse so when did when was this sent recent it was sent oh a couple months ago okay I wonder where you are now yes I've had many paranormal spiritual experiences growing up but because of my religion and also being terrified of every little thing that is spooky I chose to ignore it all however in the past two years my fascination with the Paranormal world has grown and I appreciate having your podcast to know that I'm not alone in my feelings or my encounters and we hate to say this but it's very possible that listening to our podcast might make you even more open but also you guys emailing us makes us more haunted so it's it's reciprocal it just all goes around in a big circle we call ourselves the triangle but really this is just a spooky Circle I will share my dad's story and my story as we both seem to have some ghostly College roommates at the same College I'll start with my dad's story my dad went to a college in a small town in

1:02:00

Pennsylvania in the early 90s he rented a house on campus with a couple of guys the house was previously owned by an elderly woman who they assumed either passed away or was moved to a nursing home some of the women's possessions such as Furniture were left in the basement of the home and the tenants were informed to not use it one day my dad and his roommates had some friends over to hang out including a friendly and well-trained German Shepherd no he was the type of dog that listened to his owner's commands and never left his side they realized that they didn't have enough seating for everyone so one of the roommates decided to go down into the basement and grab a kitchen chair despite being told to not use that furniture I will say that feels kind of like you're renting a house but leaving all this furniture and telling them not to use it like yeah just remove the furniture then or lock the basement if if that's your storage room exactly yes as soon as the roommate came upstairs with the chair of the German Shepherd lost his he began barking growling and even started lunging for the chair

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as if he was going to attack it while his owner was fighting to hold on to the leash despite the owner's commands for the dog to stop it persisted to try to get that chair my dad grabbed the chair and threw it on top of the kitchen table away from the dog but the dog would not stop he grabbed it again and ran down the hallway to throw it in one of the bedrooms and at this point the dog was able to break free from his owners and booked it down the hall after my dad my dad then threw the chair into the room and slammed the door shut what even with the chair being in the room the dog continued barking and trying to get to it his owner was more pissed off than anything at this point and grabbed a hold of the dog and left my dad and his roommates all just stood there in silence giving each other the what the hell just happened look yeah as time went on strange things started happening around the house but here's where it gets Mega spooky my Dad decided to go home one weekend and when he came back his roommates were absolutely freaking out they had a small party over the weekend and one of the guys there claimed to be able to see spirits and

1:04:00

sensed something was in there that night they invited him back over to see what he had to say they followed him as he slowly walked through the house and then eventually ended up in the basement he was staring into a dark corner for a while when he then said that there was a woman standing there and she appeared to be pointing at something beside her they were all confused as there didn't seem to be anything over there besides some old furniture so they ventured over to the corner where the man said that she was standing and pointing to their surprise they discovered a brick wall that was built in front of the actual house there was a small space in between two walls with a gap on the side where the ghost was pointing to one of the roommates decided to walk between the walls don't do it and there is where he found a small wooden door about three feet high with a lock on it being a bunch of college guys they said screw it and busted the lock the door turned the door turned out to lead to

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underneath the enclosed front porch and there they noticed three large piles of dirt that looked like bodies could have been buried underneath them they were all horrified and they hurried out of the basement as fast as they could with the image of the dirt piles engraved in his mind my dad searched up missing people to see if there were any reports of people who went missing stop but they never found any okay thank goodness and to this day he never found anything but desperately wanted to return to the house was it the ghost of the previous owner confessing to the crimes that she did was it the ghost of a victim from under the porch trying to help solve their murder or could it have just been Dirt flash forward to 2020 and I was a senior attending that same College because of covet the campus was shut down during my final semester and the college seemed like a ghost town pun intended however I was interning for the college Town's local hospital so I stayed I had already moved my stuff out of the college apartment that I was living in with my friends so I began renting a townhouse from a friend and it was my first time

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living alone the house was old with crooked stairs and Floors that creaked with every step the basement of the house was blocked off by some furniture and I was advised to not go down there what is up what is up with the don't go in the basement I guess wherever this college is it's like anti-basing Town someone's having something adding their secrets in the basement I know you noted I had no plans to go down there whatsoever of course it's a little weird living alone but I knew it was only temporary and that I'd be out of there within two months when my internship was over once I adjusted I had no problems of living alone until I realized I was not living alone started with that feeling that you're being watched while you're asleep and jumping awake at night I would sleep with my door closed but I could distinctly hear footsteps one after another starting from the top of the stairs and ending right at my doorway I started sleeping with the AC running beside me as well as a fan in the front to block out any of the noises once as I was

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going to bed I stepped into my room and I flicked on the lights to my horror there was a shadow figure sitting at the edge of my bed when I turned on the lights I watched as it went up by my bed across the ceiling and then out the door above my head I stood in the doorway breathless and in shock I tried recreating the shadow but there was Zero explanation as to what I saw I don't know how or if I slept that night let alone ever again in that house on the day that I moved out I could not have been more ready to leave my parents came up to help me move my stuff to an apartment on the way other side of town away from the college and of course curiosity got the best of my dad and he asked what's in the basement after we had gotten everything out of the house we decided why the heck not let's go down check it out I didn't even make it to the body of the steps before I realized that it was nothing but a small table with candles circling around

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I yelled nope nope nope nope the whole way out of the house and into the car this stuff is a weird freaky fascinating and at times completely unexplainable is up with this town if you got this far thanks for reading my stories again I love you guys and the podcast Steve on the other side Sarah Sarah where the heck did you go to school what is happening I feel like there's some weird like shoot what was the Watcher did you watch that on Netflix I did watch it yes there was I feel like there's some weird similar stuff that was going on in that neighborhood happening in this town like the neighbors are in on it they're renting their houses out but everyone's like keep them out of the basements because that's where we live that's where we do our rituals what the heck it also makes me wonder if this town I'm just wondering about Prohibition era and how many Rum Runner tunnels and secret tunnels there could possibly be between or even like you

1:09:00

know a mob town where I'm like are are the basements the connection points and people are just trying to like seal them off and it's not like anything bad is happening there now but it's just more dangerous and you don't want the liability of your tenants crawling into a a tunnel I have to argue with you here because you said you don't think anything weird is happening there now she went downstairs and there were in a circle around One Singular table it's kind of very very effectively yeah it's very Barbarian there is actually some type of like ritualistic weird stuff happening yeah okay these kids that my friend told me about trying to sacrifice their friend went and visited this town they went into the basement their parents were like we're gonna go sit outside you guys hang out in here don't do any don't get into anything and it's like Rugrats you know how they always wander off

1:10:00

yeah yeah they went into the basement those kids learned a thing or two about dark seances yikes so scary but Sarah you need to tell us more about this town yeah and I really hope that the Mounds of dirt were not bodies and maybe they were like animals or just I don't know I don't know I don't know it is strange though that the one friend who came over that was a medium saw the woman like I was almost expecting it to be the older woman kind of pointing to like this is where my chair was and it's been moved but it was you've touched it was my chair you touched my chair but it wasn't that at all it was like here is no a hidden basically walkway like here's a hidden path that leads to underneath that why are there three body-sized mounds of dirt if someone Works in like pest control or Landscaping can you tell us why that would be there that's not a body yeah are there like certain animals

1:11:00

that burrow like that yeah and it sounds like it was well spaced this is one where like usually you and I are so down to like believe in ghosts believe in conspiracy but this is one situation where I very much want the Skeptics to give me reasonings like rational explanations like I want the rational side of it did you ever watch Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix the few seasons that they dropped yeah it kind of reminds me of the episode it might have been in the family the family and they all went missing but really the dad had killed them and they were all buried yeah that's really sad yeah well have a great day everyone see you on the road um see ya in the basement uh uh yeah cool if you're a psychic who gets messages and you often have

1:12:00

this battle and debate of like what to do with the message please let us know what you do and how you cope and deal with it I'm so fascinated and if you have any ghost stories or Cryptid a creepy alien Supernatural type of story email them to us at two girls one ghostpodcast gmail.com uh you can interview US on iTunes you can follow us on all the social medias watch us on YouTube join our patreon for all the amazing fun spooky stuff and we'll see you on the road September 7th through November 5th we are doing a live tour hopefully coming to a city near you I mean there's 32 cities and like 34 shows at this point so check it out in our show notes uh thank you good luck blackheads are good luck check out stray cat Alliance to adopt soot whose real name is Regina Regina that she might be adopted by now by the time this episode comes true but there's always other kitties out there to adopt

1:13:00

so many we love you all and thank you Christina for editing our podcast thank you to Avery and Loren for helping us on the business side of things and thank you to all of you for listening and supporting our show over the six years that we've been doing this we love you all and we will see you on the other side