Attempting to Conjure Spirits | The Philip the Ghost Experiment (Ep 285)

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very spooky hi hello hi hi hello hello hi this is two girls one ghost two girls one ghost and we are your ghost SES that is Karen and that is Sabrina I stole your line oh my gosh wait that's so fun you no this is really fun actually I just had a flashback to our very first time recording because I giggled so much just in that moment when we were saying hello I also think we only had one microphone so I think you and I were leaning and trying to speak into the one like the Blue Yeti microphone or whatever that we had yeah that had zero mobility and terrible audio quality yeah

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yeah it works for everyone else I don't know what would the ghosts did not like it no the ghosts hated it yeah but we're here we're here together I commuted to my office this morning this is the office your house is our office I commuted too I walked 15 Steps which is in your condition quite a workout I know I really do I feel bad for you that I am allergic to cats cuz I really benefit from this yeah relationship more that's okay I actually like having a commute again and it's a quick commute and gets you out of the house it gets me out of the house I also now can listen to podcasts again which is really exciting because it's been years without a commute and I haven't been listening to podcasts so I just start listening to scam Manda oh I haven't listened but I've heard so much about it yeah I just started listening to it so far so good although I did have an experience on my way here where my car it has like the auto collision like brake thing no one's on the road driving through like downtown old area and of a sudden my car

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goes like starts beeping and like pre-collision alert and you know does like the little break press to a warn you and I was like nothing's here that's so weird what are you seeing that I it's hard because it's like everything between your house and my house is really old it's also the whole area is super old so I like can't even guess at what it could be is it my car or is it your car while your car was being transported I wonder if another car was haunted and then that haunting to your car they like oh wait this car is newer nicer never been in this car before yeah take up residence in there kind of a mystery Happening Here what when the other day it was after so in a couple episodes from now we put out an episode that we had to Pivot halfway through oh because we were there was some stuff happening oh my gosh I put that out of my memory I've tried not to think about it or talk about it scary but it was like a day after that and I was standing in here and yes I have a couple plants there are a couple plants but I was standing right here and all of

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a sudden my foot has like it's hit with something and it's like kind of moist and I look down and there's a pile of dirt on my foot and where I wasn't over by either of these and they didn't just vomit up wet dirt in fact they were incredibly dry no I didn't did the thi you were going to talk about had have anything to do with wet dirt no there was like oil and stain and stuff but I don't think dirt interesting but I had dirt just like appear out of nowhere a pile of dirt and you're a very clean person so it's not that you were just walking around and dirt got on your feet no and it doesn't make any sense because the plants were near me but they were also crispy crispy dry definitely dying and that's why I kind of came in here because I was like oh I should probably like rearrange the bookshelf a little bit right and maybe like see if they need water and I had

Solving the FedEx mystery

wet dirt on me just fall so I don't know okay okay well that's a mystery it is a

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mystery I solved another mystery what well I didn't someone El basically there was a mystery we received a book via FedEx yes and we were like who the heck gave this to us and we recorded an episode which I have no idea when that comes out but we talked about this book and you had to go to FedEx because they didn't deliver the PO box and it was going to be in sender but someone really kindly at FedEx was like hey we have this for you someone emailed us and we know who sent it to us now oh my gosh mystery solved mystery solved like French witchy book it is from which is actually right here let me grab it so the other day we got an email from vianca and it was titled haunted French book mailed to you so apparently it's haunted but [ __ ] hello ghouls I've been a long time listener since day one I reached out via Instagram but now here I sent a French book on exorcisms through FedEx please let me know if you received it and I said oh my gosh yes it was such ordeal we had no idea who sent it and we

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spent an entire episode trying to figure it out thank you so much for sending it to us it's beautiful and vianca responded I knew you wouldn't know who it was from my coworker said place a note on the back of the FedEx paper and I'm like no they won't see it and I even put my name down and everything I patiently had been waiting to hear you mention it and haven't so I was like hm have they received it but I'm glad you got it love the podcast love you girls it's Bianca with a V yeah it's the history of experimental spiritualism the spiritualism experimental yeah my terrible accent well I didn't even try I just literally was like let me translate to English English but yeah thank you there we go okay so now both of our two haunted as I talk off screen and come back into frame our two haunted objects are in your possession because we were sent that book and then we were sent the haunted Pendulum The Haunted pendulum and well so they're both for you but actually in my house where dirt is falling on me from the ceiling okay well

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I will remove I'm hesitant to put it in my car at this moment because my car might be haunted as well where is this the best time and then you can just like do a clean sweep and Exorcism of your car a sage cleanse of my car um maybe that book will do something for it I

Medication and Instagram bans

have a bone to pick with Instagram real quick okay I posted a photo of my medication with pain so pay and I have the exact same medication and when I first realized that I was like that is love yeah so romantic to me I was like wow how romantic we are both medicated on the same anti-depressant medicated and Marble Head medicated and marble head and so I took a picture of our prescription bottles right next to each other where we take Zoloft uh 50 milligrams every day I'm going to be out like I don't care like I I'm very open and honest about it you and everyone else right so I posted this picture and Instagram like removed it and they were like you violated Instagram's policies like you are at risk for being banned from Instagram I was like who okay exem this was really dramatic like yeah then

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the next day I was at noom's first birthday party the little rodeo and my mom goes can we go to the bathroom and I was like sure and I like go start to go into the bathroom she goes no I want to come in with you and I was like okay Mom where are we like a bar um and she goes I've been meaning to talk to you like she gets really serious like as I'm like peeing on the toilet and she goes you really shouldn't be posting about your medications online and I was like what she goes that's violating hippo rules and I was like Mom it's my own medication you're allowed to say what you're taking allow to what your doctor can't go online and say oh Sabrina Diana Roga here's everything that I prescribe her with but you are allowed to do whatever you want and then she just really revealed you know I think people have very different opinions on medication and I think my mom and her generation have are of the mindset that it's frowned upon or there's a stereotype about taking medication and she's like I really think you should aim to be drug free in your life and I was

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like okay Mom thanks for the opinion thanks for the advice didn't ask for it I'm actually very happy yeah if you had the choice you wouldn't be taking it but you have to I'm [ __ ] in the head mom like you gave me this brain she gave you the chemical makeup in brain so and yeah so whose problem is it really mother I'm actually shocked that Instagram was able to remove one image in the whole Carousel apparently that's now a thing you can do that yeah well that's good cuz then they didn't take down your entire post right but that that is I was mad I excuse me you can show your nipples on Instagram but you can't show your medication which is silly yeah and I don't know if it's just like an AI system that's if they think it's like selling drugs or something I don't know or just like making light of drugs to illness kids or something I don't know yeah I'm curious if like if you had posted it in an educational way if it would have been hey everyone treated differently I'm on drugs she's all drugs all the time every day

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all day every day daily dose of drugs hey take your pills I'm also just looking at myself in the video and I'm a [ __ ] huge flock oh my God wait we got

Maternity photo shoot woes

our maternity we did our maternity shoot with City Lux who are the photographers that we used Brian found them for our proposal or engagement the engagement yeah well it wasn't an engagement shoot I guess it was I didn't know it was happening it was a surprise it was it was a surprise surprise photo shoot and then we used them again for our wedding and so then we used them again for the maternity shoe and there are so many photos that I just absolutely love but there's one that they took I want to see it there's two there's two there's one that they took where it was Sarah took it the woman cuz she was here where I'm like kneeling on the bed and it's supposed to be one of those things where you know like you're kneeling and you're like holding your belly or whatever but I'm so big right now that my butt expands halfway up to my back and so I looked just like a giant blob you could tell I was pregnant or anything it was

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just big old blob and then there's one I mean to see it I'll show you there's one too where we're we're sitting in our sun room like at the little table and we're leaning and Brian looks so cute he's like leaning and just looks normal and my the whole back of the chair is splattered with my giant ass splattered I have to show you I'm literally going to pull it up right now to show amazing so spattered I'm like oh my God I did I'm not used to seeing myself hole like this I can't believe this but it's one of those things where like even for because we just had the baby shower I'm realizing that I decided to do everything kind of so late in terms of like baby shower and maternity shoot and everything because I convinced myself I wasn't going to look pregnant for a long time oh you look pregnant like right away yeah I know but I still convinced myself that I would just look bloated TR you I know you have grown since then but I

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feel like you've looked this pregnant since I first saw you pregnant I know it's to worried for the next one okay ready look at that my butt is almost touching the top of the chair back wow right I not exagerate I would not have like looked at that immediately because you're just hyper analyzing your own body but like you have a dunk it's not I don't even I don't know what it is like it looks like you got a BBL but it's not even in my butt it's like my saddle bags have just like blown yeah anyhoo I'll try to sit up more none of that helps at all whatever I'm not going to look at myself what do that you have a booty it will shrink you're going to deflate immediately upon giving birth I kind of hope so I'm having a hard time moving around I'm huffing and puffing rolling and poing she's rolly poly yly she's small and short and round

Seven year anniversary review

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did you watch that show I did yeah of course it was good yeah it was good also this is technically our seven year anniversary epis today this episode oh happy anniversary not today because this comes out August 18th okay August 14th is our anniversary right I'm doing a two-parter and I thought it was very appropriate to do around our anniversary because we when we started this podcast joked about it being haunted kind of throughout the first year and then it really did become haunted the joke was not really a joke and it really is a haunted podcast and we kind of created with the help of you all of our listeners created a ghost we named him Sven we don't know if Sven is One Singular Spirit or many or we have heard His Voice or someone's voice yes twice as an EVP in our recordings two years apart the same exact voice so so I do think we accidentally maybe purposefully created a ghost yeah and

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we're not the first ones to have done this is that what we're learning about today we are learning about Philip the ghost who was created and this is a really Infamous story or case if you're like in the know at the Paranormal you've probably heard about Phillip and then also we talked to Greg and Dana about how they created a haunting with the crying Greg painting that they created and when they went on tour they had everyone kind of put their energy into the painting and they've created what they call Gregor it's so it's so funny if you haven't listened to that episode it's the haunted with Greg and Dana newerk on our feed and it's really good they're incredible people yeah this also kind of reminded me of like Frankenstein and poor things if you haven't seen that u m Stone movie it's so good really yeah I heard the synopsis felt icky about it oh I love it really yeah I really really like it I won't watch it but thank you for the suggest the reason I liked it and and I maybe this take of it will

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give you reason cuz I I highly recommend it like it was my favorite movie of last year really yeah I mean I heard it was about basically like a young girl like basically like a baby stuck in a woman's body and just like the men around her taking advantage of her like that feels I don't think she inappropriate it's not that at all and I did not take it that way at all and I also went through a very like transformational period of my life in the last two years and did a lot of self-exploration and it was almost like to me what I took from it it was that men were trying to control her and she was like no I'm actually going to go be my own person and explore my sexuality and my like personality and who I am as a person without any of you trying to control me that's okay the story that I took yeah anyway okay so

Creating a ghost named Philip

for these two episodes I read the book Conjuring up Phillip an adventure in psychokinesis the most amazing occult experiment of all time written by Iris M Owen with Margaret Sparrow in 1976 this is a story of the power of human

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will the ability to conure with the intention and a query into the other side because what is it really Philip began as an idea and evolved into a physical spirit that appeared in dreams created group hallucinations individual hallucinations Poltergeist activity to the point of a table levitating off the ground oh my God but we'll get into all of that in a bit okay so first background the Philip experiment was conducted by a group of parapsychological researchers in Toronto Canada the group was led by a mathematical geneticist Dr George Owen and a psychologist Dr Joel Whitten and I have a photo of a bunch of like the members of the group this group that they ended up using to conjure Phillip was a group of eight members they were all members of the Society of psychical research in Toronto Canada and they were very curious about psychokinesis and

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they wanted to find out more psychokinesis is basically The Conjuring and the power of mental creation yeah so it's kind of like I mean we still do a lot of that research today where I think people will convince themselves that they're hurt and then a bruise will appear on yeah just the power of the brain and what you can actually convince yourself to be true and then how the world around you reacts to that right so their three objectives were one find out if they could produce psychokinetic energy energy two whether a spirit medium was necessary to do this or if it could be created by Ordinary People three if the force was produced by a disembodied Spirit or the people in the group I mean this whole group was founded upon understanding the Paranormal they had gone on paranormal investigations they were a lot of scientists and so they had done research they had studied previous accounts they were really interested in like the 1800 spiritualism movement and table tapping and the fox sisters and if you read the book it's a 230 page book and what's

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really cool about it is it goes through research that they had done and previous encounters or cases throughout history that inspired this oh yeah cool or contextualized this okay so if something happened in the Philip experiment they were like it reminds us of this interesting thing that happened in history so the focus was definitely way more about like spiritualism and ghosts themselves and not necessarily like I feel like if the CIA had been involved in this it might be more of like a do we live in a simulation sort of thing well

The scientific method to ghosts

it was a little bit of that too and a lot of these people and I'll get into this for more in part two but a lot of these group members were so fascinated by the Paranormal but they really didn't understand what it was and this experiment made them question it also made me question what the Paranormal is I feel like I'm already starting to question just like the leadup into it with how much it sounds like they did and experimented with just kind of like what is everything right around us we no

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idea our own experiences even right and I love this okay this reminded me of Middle School like the scientific method they very much approached this with the scientific method the start with a question do research have a hypothesis the experiment data analysis conclusion and communication so the eight members that created the control group consisted of a variety of people in all walks of life there was an accountant an engineer an industrial designer a scientific research assistant and and for housewives and so I'm going to give the bios of all the members okay it was very important that none of these members claimed to be psychic mediums okay because they basically all like previously in history all contact and communication with the other side seem to come from someone who claimed to be a medium or have psychic abilities but could they just be sensitive like could it be like someone like us we would never claim to be a psychic medium but like we believe to have had experiences before I don't think we would have qualified for this group so truly you

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couldn't have anything happen I think they were intrigued but yeah not necessarily okay I think they wanted to Brian could be cast in here I think they truly wanted to understand if the human mind could create a ghost okay yeah psychical research was an interest among many of them for years this group had looked into paranormal phenomena and research the Toronto Society of psychical research was founded in 1970 to pursue the study of the strange and little known areas of human experience and knowledge the only criteria to join the group was that anyone wishing to join must have an open mind on the various aspects of parasal research a desire to further knowledge in the field and want to find answers to some of the puzzling questions associated with the subject so we would have been allowed to join the larger group but we wouldn't have been able to be members of this experiment the actual experiment you know what this is reminding me of in my senior psychology Capstone course we had to a study which I've told you about before

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but the group that I was in we chose to research if there was any correlation with the Big Five personality traits like openness neuroticism like all that yeah and having experiences with the Paranormal and we had almost a one like a perfect score with people who scored highest on openness as their personality trait also having a paranormal experience wait that's really cool yeah and then as we're presenting our research I know I should I should see if I can find it but as we were presenting the research when we were like halfway through we put up a photo of from the the movie The Exorcism when she's like like and we just went and the whole class just screamed back to the research interactive experience I love that not everyone's open to the Paranormal but they're still gonna be able to be scared you can scare them

Building Philip's biography

yeah that's amazing okay so the work in terms of conjuring Philip began in the

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fall of 1972 there were many hours of discussions leading up to this about ghosts what are they what is telepathy what is a group hallucination and then how do these elements translate into the world of paranormal encounters and then this group embarked upon the adventure that became Philip they were determined to further the study of the subject of psychokinesis mind or soul and movement so basically movement created by the mind and they wanted to understand if a physical object could be put into motion and into existence because of mental intention without any physical means being applied so this is a very scientific approach to Paranormal I guess I also have a one more question which I don't know if this you'll have many over the course of this yeah okay so they have this group and they're all working towards this one thing how do we know that any of the researchers that are involved in this are not also maybe unaware or unconsciously contributing towards us haunting themselves like they're not perfectly unbiased in this situation like they could be accidentally involved what do you mean

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like the people who are not in the eight members yeah so the people actually studying them I think were they in the room were they observing live were not in the room there were like later on they do get in the room but there's all audio and uh video recordings of okay so they were just watching it back so they weren't like accidentally contributing towards it or convincing themselves of seeing something live in the moment it was all I think it was preone more eight members that were very involved it yeah if they were being observed I mean it is possible that they could have contributed to it and I'm sure they speak about that but they were never in the room until much later in the experiment okay so basically the concept and the question was can they simply create a ghost because they thought it up so they wanted to invent their own ghost one with a complete history but completely fictional so they felt it was imperative for them to build a character that was completely fictional they couldn't utilize someone that they knew or someone from history they couldn't create a ghost of someone

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who actually existed in history this makes me think of method acting too where people just create this whole backstory and like make themselves live like that person for their character and then get lost in it and it's like the human psyche like having to learn who you are again it's wild they truly create this I mean I'll tell you in a minute but okay so they also were not

The Philip experiment group

trying to contact a spirit as one might encounter or experience with traditional methods of spiritualism or spirit contact like divination forms Ouija board tarot or whatever they wanted to the biggest goal was not only to have communication with the spirit but to physically see an apparition of the spirit so they create a backstory they truly draw this man that they create and they are so intent that this group of eight are going to spend x amount of time together and put their minds and meditate into creating an actual apparition of a spirit that they created

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interesting yeah so that's I am curious if they had left out the physical description of what the spirit was like I almost wish that they had so it was all personality it was all about like what this person did nothing about what they physically looked like so that when the group saw you could see did they actually conjure like a real thing together or was this just like a group hallucination of sorts interesting my understanding is that they created the biography and it together they would meditate and that's how they created the physical appearance and then there were also times where later on they received answers of what the spirit looked like from who they believe was the spirit itself so the ultimate goal was to create a physical Apparition they decided that they would record the experiment and conduct it in sufficient lighting so as to capture evidence properly whereas typical sances and communication with the other side is often in dim lighting and they were like let's do this scient speically like almost sterile right you're like in a

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clinical doctor's room exactly they initially had a group of 14 members but then decided that it would actually be better to do it with a smaller group so they dwindled it down to eight members this group would meet once a week on a specific day every week for an hour or more and they were all to agree that they were going to participate in this experiment for a year that's a long time iust 52 sessions mhm and they were hoping that by the end of this year they would produce the results whether or not it was positive or negative the eight members were as follows and I feel like this reads like a cast a cast and a play

The sad history of Philip

yeah here's the Playbook Al a man of practical ability and Common Sense he is a qualified heating engineer and runs his own business his hobbies are scouting to which he devotes much of his spare time and photography Andy I can see myself like my 11-year-old self getting cast as ow right now it's like number of lines two

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yes yes like I have a line mom Andy if asked she would probably describe herself as a housewife but she is much more than this she is Artistic and it was she who drew the pictures of Phillip she has an Exquisite eye for color and is well read she loves animals especially cats with whom she has a great Rapport I'm for sure shooting for Andy LOM is Andy's husband an industrial designer a very creative and artistic person his hobbies are unusual and include the Japanese art of Tibido which is a sword fighting method what an interesting guy yeah he is an authority on Old maps and on ancient history in general and is a student of Oriental philosophies he is also an astronomer wow oh I like I like his you want to be my wife I mean my husband I'll be Andy you be LOM okay LOM is cool Bernice is a fully qualified and efficient accountant but like Andy she has an artistic flare

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for color and clothes she's widely read interested in philosophy and P much on the meaning of things she has a good sense of humor and enjoys the outdoors Dorothy housewife blonde and vivacious her Hobbies consist chiefly of scouting she has been a cub leader for a number of years and is interested in Paras pychology she is trained in bookkeeping and accounting doesn't it read like oast it definitely does yeah some of them have crossover interests too so you're like whenever I read that in a play I'm like were people was this intentional or did they just like kind of forget what hobbies they could include or is this gonna be important like to read yeah that's why they bonded that's why they became friends that's why they had one one Exchange in the hotel lobby together Sydney the youngest member of the group who is still in college but took time off for travel and worked as a Salesman he intends to return to college and complete his course in sociology he is tall and Broad with blue eyes Fair hair and is teased a lot by the group but they're all very fond of him he has recently grown a

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beard you can say the same of me Iris the author and eldest member of the group so Iris wrote this book she is the wife of Dr a r George Owen who runs and oversees the Toronto Society of psychical research so Dr George Owen is the one who basically oversaw the entire group and also oversaw this experiment okay prior to their marriage Iris was a registered nurse in eng England and worked some years studying cancer research she volunteered as a social worker and was involved in the care of children now Sue Sue was married and the mother of three boys Sue is responsible for having originated the Phillip story oh Sue Where it All Began she is currently the chairman of Mena for Canada an organization for people with a high IQ who are dedicated to using their abilities to help solve major problems that beset mankind Sue is like [ __ ] yeah jez before her marriage she was a

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nurse with the Canadian Armed Forces she has a vivid imagination and a gift for drama not that not like not the tea drama like drama in terms of creating stories she's got it all she's a whole package her gift for drama was put to use and Sue concocted the backstory for

The first year of meditation

Phillip so they had the members of the experiment the conceit and the plan but they needed the ghost Sue created the backstory of Phillip and Andy Drew the imagery of Phillip now I'm going to tell you Philip's story okay because this is where it all started I keep forgetting that he's not real I already feel like pH is also a cast member well you're about to read Philip's bio for the cast honestly this should be a play why is it not I don't know you should message Sue who's quite literally a creative genius and be like come up with this pivot over to a play you ever a thought about Broadway sue sue your star a black and white movie where are we in the I actually don't know when this was

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this well it was in 1973 oh I don't know if they're all still with us or not oh probably not I know sorry because we don't know their ages either it didn't say and in the book you can find their full names but in the book it's just their first names okay so this is Philip's story so sue who created the story had spent some time living in Warwickshire England and had spent some time at diddington Hall so while it was imperative what what diddington it's just a [ __ ] name that's like what did I say diddington dton diddington while it was imperative that Philip the character himself and the person himself was entirely fictional they did think it was important to ground him in some reality where it can't be like he lives on Mars you know right they wanted it to be like realistic enough that he was he was human and he existed in history so sue chose to put his backstory in a

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place that she knew of and so she could draw from the scenery and the location itself to inform okay him because then it's more realistic it's like yeah I've been to this place I can Envision Phillip roaming those Gardens or whatever it may be this is the history of Phillip Philip islesford was born in 1624 he was an aristocratic Englishman living at the time of Oliver Cromwell he had blue eyes and was quiet in nature reserved and rightly composed he cared greatly of his outward perception from others he was a supporter of the king and was Catholic he was married to a beautiful but cold and frigid wife dorotha dorotha was the daughter of a neighboring nobleman and this marriage was fraught forced upon the two and was Loveless she cold and frigid I was going to say you're not usually like that unless you don't want to be there yeah one afternoon while out riding along his estate Philip came across a woman and I

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know this term is not correct anymore but this is in the description it was at a gypsy encampment so they called this woman a gypsy but I think she was just like a Wanderer Someone who lived yeah she lived with you know like-minded people who were traveling quite a bit they didn't have a ton of money anyway her name was Margot and she was beautiful Dark Eyed raven haired and Phillip apparently it was love at first sight fell deeply madly in love with her that's where we get the song browney girl exactly Philip created it Philip the ghost who was fictional created it Philip wanted Margot so so badly that he brought her home with him and actually hid her on he didn't like lock her up or trap her he hit her where he he basically hid her from D the walls a layer of brick yeah little bit of Buffalo Bill situation go on here no he brought her to this property that he had on the outskirts of his own Manor by The Stables and gave her a home but

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basically it was like I'm going to visit you every day and have a sex with you and love you but I can't live with you because he was married to dorthia okay obviously it was suspicious super sus that Philip kept disappearing every day and his wife Dortha despite them not being in love with each other was like yo my man's walking out on me like right he's not going to ride his horse for hours and hours every day yeah and also what's the mod what's her name Mar I would also question how much influence was there on her relationship with him because she might not have wanted to be in relationship in a tower yes yes but you know this is about not about Margot apparently sorry Margo although you don't exist right I was just going to say the nice thing is that none of these people actually exist but versions of them do sure yes so unfortunately dorotha found out about his secret love nest and found Margo she called the authorities and accused Margo of

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Witchcraft and of stealing her husband was that just like the default to just say I like you she's a witch witchcraft dorthia took to the public and sought Justice and so basically authorities take Margot off his property and are accusing her of Witchcraft and philli says nothing does nothing sits back because he's so concerned with his own reputation that he does nothing what an a-hole very quick quickly what happens is that Margo is accused of Witchcraft sentenced to death and burned at the stake oh God Phillip watches what he says is his true love burn at the stake and he does nothing about it this guilt destroyed him it is said that he it has said that it was written that Phillip then spent his days very remorseful at diddington Manor moping barely able to live he was sent into a deep depression and despair so now Margo is dead dorotha

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despises Philip even more Philip is extremely guilt-ridden can't sleep he spends his nights pacing and eventually one morning his body is found at the foot of the battlements where he had cast himself out of the highest window in his own guilt yeah the history and bibliography of Philip was then filled out throughout the experiment so basically Sue created this wrote this shares it with every member of the group and they make it a part of their like they just pour themselves into this story and make it so real and true in their minds that Phillip becomes a true person in all of their minds so all eight members spend I think it's like the first couple of months of this experiment just becoming so familiar with Phillip becoming familiar with diddington manners so they can visualize it they start to have conversations about philli and theorize like was he a member of X Y and Z what kind of music

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did he like and so they would become so familiar with the world that Philip lived in they would play music from the 1600s and sing it and they would make jokes and so this group of eight become basically a group of nine because Philip while he's not there is the center of conversation for every one of these sessions this is immediately making me think about book talk and how there are so many people who when they read like let's think about Twilight for examp exle like when everyone read Twilight you just envisioned Edward you envisioned all of the cast right and if you have that many people thinking about it do we accidentally make Spirits out of book characters too I'm sure I'm sure I mean think about book club I mean if we spent as much time as this group did talking about this character and these characters and this person that didn't really exist yeah we could probably create a vampire that's what I'm thinking of because I'm thinking of acatar because on that side of Tik Tok people like are literally making music

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for the soundtrack of what they think valeris sounds like and they're like oh this is so Cassian and they were like making memes and there's just so much being conjured and created about these people that aren't real right doesn't it then make you wonder if like every Spirit anyone's ever experienced is just like a creation of your own mind if you spend enough time thinking about that thinking about and and especially like group think if enough people are putting that energy into the world right because you don't have to be a part of it either like it just manifests and conjures on its own it chips off and then yeah we're

Switching to seances

just seeing spirits that other people have created okay so for basically a year they spent their sessions meditating and and some of them would close their eyes it would be a mix of talking out loud about Phillip it almost like talking about someone who's not in the room like talking about him as if he's very real it's SP a year doing this some of them would meditate and close their eyes they PA music and they would start every

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session by basically inviting philli to join them in the room and they did this for a year and they really felt like there was an energy that they were building they could feel something in the room with them and there was apparently some description of seeing a Mist but that's all that they would see and this is this is now a year into the experiment they have not conjured anything beyond a story and a feeling of an like some type of energy in the room yeah and so now at this year mark they're feeling a bit discouraged and they're like maybe this is a failure of an experiment or we've proven that human Minds cannot create true Spirit but as with any scientific experiment they were like hm what if instead of giving up we try a different approach you know like kind of reassess the hypothesis and reassess the way that they conduct the experiment so in their studies they were reviewing seances and taable tapping and other forms of divination and they're like what if we should treat Phillip like he is already a spirit so now

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instead of trying to conjure the spirit they're like let's pretend we already created him we did we spent a year meditating and coming up with this backstory let's treat him like he's a spirit and use divination skills to try

Communicating with Philip

to communicate with him so now year two they decide they are going to communicate with the entity Beyond just manifesting him in their Mind's Eye they would utilize seances to produce the visible Apparition of Phillip so traditionally seances were conducted in dim lighting led by a psychic who would Channel energy from others in the room but this group again wanted to ensure that they could capture the results and also do it with like normal humans not psychics or people who claim to be psychic so yeah they would keep the lights well lit and they did have some light variation so they would add like different tones and light colors but the room always remained well lit okay and so then this is the evolution

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year two they would sit in a room all of them would have their hands on the table um like as if they were conducting a seance and the room would start in a soft pink or Rosy light and over the duration of the session they would change and like increase the density of the light so the researchers are doing that they're controlling the lighting yeah and just trying to make them feel more into it as it goes on right okay the first Seance or sitting as they called it was apparently awkward and everyone was very nervous because they so badly wanted to Y yield results that they kind of seemed to forget the details of Phillip and it was just it was like our first podcast recording it was a little awkward it was a little uncomfortable what are we doing here how do you speak how do you do a seance like they'd spent so long talking about Phillip and so they were like okay let's just relax this group had now spent over a year I mean they were friends before but now they've spent a year of being so intimate with one another they've spent hours together that they were just like let's just rely on our energy as a group yeah soow

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slowly as they keep doing this they start to relax and by the third or fourth Seance they start to hear tapping and a vibration on the table I'm nervous because it's immediately I'm like what if it's not philli what if they're just opening themselves up and there's other entities and Spirits lurking creeping inar you never know it's an actual Seance now it's now it's an actual Seance yeah they are opening themselves up to the Paranormal they were so surprised by this first vibration that they were like I don't know like maybe one of you were like someone in this room's creating it they're so uncertain but had it not been for more vibrations and more knocks to follow they would have thought it was a hoax or one of the others the vibrations continued the table began to move on the floor sliding by itself oh everyone's hands and feet were visible no one was creating the noise and no one was moving the table then Dorothy pondered aloud I wonder if by chance Phillip is the one doing this

42:00

immediately after posing this question there is a loud knock sounded from the top of the table almost as if to answer the question yes I Phillip am doing this over the next few sessions the group established that one knock meant yes two meant no and they utilized this to speak to Philip their goal and hope was now that they've established communication eventually they could conjure up the physical operation of Phillip these seances continued and they initially would begin with jokes and song singing of the era of Philip was from and they would use basically the same methods of their meditations in the beginning of every Seance to focus their energies on Phillip and create the space of Phillip they would go around and each member of the group would say hello Phillip hi Phillip inviting him into the space

Filling in Philip's details

Philip would arrive and announce himself with one knock sessions would usually begin like this now this is the play the group would enter the room they

43:00

would all say hello to one another and you know like catch up and then they would sit around the table which initially began as a plastic card table they would begin recording both video and audio of the session and say hello Phillip hello Phillip it's nice to be here again Phillip and then they would begin conversing with him they would update philli on their own lives and their own relationships so that it was two-sided and then they would tell Phil that they would like to ask him questions and he could respond respond with KNX one for yes two for no so they very much kept it to yes and no questions over the course of these seances they actually filled out Philip's biography through Philip answering so they had created so much background and enough information that Philip now would correct them on things he's a part of his own lore yes so this is wild so basically he tells them so you know they're they're now very informed with the 1600s and that like era and some of the politics that are going on in Charles I first and his

44:00

execution and all of these things which existed around the time that Philip was said to live philli basically through yes or no questions fills in gaps apparently the outbreak of small pox killed his parents when they were in London and he was just 10 years old and he was orphaned at the time which led to him moving to dington Manor where he first met his wife or soon to be wife eventually wife dorotha apparently Philip fought at some wars during the English Civil War and supported Charles I first and I'll tell you some more details in a minute but like he would correct them sometimes like they would joke and say oh you must have done this and he would adamantly knock no this is really making me think of everything everywhere all at once yeah because what if Philip actually did exist before Sue even put a backstory together because someone out there in the different dimensions and iterations of our Universe has experienced like there's just always a version of you sure or

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what if like this was su's past life and she didn't know it and she unconsciously wrote the story of someone who actually existed but then it's like if we're talking about Dimensions or if we're talking about different past lives of someone who's currently living it's kind of that weird question of like how do those how does that energy get here well

Physical phenomena and video

I have a video for you to show so online and actually on patreon will link a bunch of this but there's so many videos that you can watch of the interactions with philli but I'm going to show you a video it's about a minute I'd recommend watch because there's like you can see the group so go to YouTube if you want to watch it but you can also just listen to it if you're listening to the audio come on let's get going have you brought darthia with you have you seen darthia lately no no would you like to see dorthia lately no no didn't you love dorthia in your

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time we need Lou did you like dth did you love Marg oh yes say it again did you love Marg come on come on come on moving come on what in the world

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it's so hard to tell from that angle because it really does look like the table starting to levitate and move it but then you see them react and try to like get up and get out of the way or just like give it more room to move yeah it's also chaos they're all speaking over each other all at once it is if you're listening to the audio it is a little bit confusing the ending seems a little bit chaotic when the guy starts singing the table starts moving moving Yeah so basically in the video if you didn't watch I'll explain what you heard in the audio so basically they're asking questions of Philip about his wife Dortha and he's responding no that he did not like he never loved dorothia and then the second they ask about Margot seems like Philip gets a little bit more riled up and starts to move the table and truly you see one of the women push it down MH and then it picks up again and then it starts to move towards the back of the room and so everyone at that side of the table starts to get up and it continues

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like more forcefully to move that way and some of them are taking their hands off while this is happening to like to get themselves up up yeah they're also an older group of people they are it kind of reminds me I mean this is filmed in like the 1970s so it kind of gives me like I Love Lucy Vibes the the way that they speak too totally did you love dorothia did you love dorothia it's hard to tell people's ages from that time because haircuts and clothing did make people look a lot than they were old yes in the

Philip's personality shines

video you can see the group physically getting up because the table's moving and shaking so much this was not unusual and ever since the beginning of sances Philip did become very very communicative his personality really came through there were times where he would think a joke was especially funny and he would send so many knocks through the table basically informing laughter other times Philip would get annoyed he almost always responded and would get excited and cause Poltergeist activity through the movement of the table the

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entirety of the experiment was recorded and like I said while that one minute clip that you just saw shows a good example of what the group experienced there are hours of audio and video and the clip that I showed you is from a documentary that they ended up making towards the end of the experiment keep in mind also this experiment like continued on for a very very long time so not the end but when they were experiencing so much and it became a lot more of a interest to the public the book also documents many of the conversations and they would bring philli gifts like candy or they would play his like the music and so I'm going to give you some information that philli actually gave them throughout the communications philli like horses and he did have many Mistresses not just Margot he did not like Dortha and was forced to marry her he and dorothia never had any kids and on occasion philli liked to get drunk and preferred shrinking songs to other music and so basically I think the

50:00

way that they learned that piece of information is they would start to play regular songs and he would get annoyed but then if they put on drinking songs from that era Philip would get super excited so then they ask him everyone exactly cheers in in the bars together in the taverns mm and so then they asked him like did you like drinking and he said yes and then they're like did you like to get drunk and he said yes and then someone was like were you a drunker and he adamantly was like no two knocks no he also gambled occasionally and he had many friends but he made it clear that dorothia did not he really hated dorthia he liked fencing and he loved candy and as established one knock meant yes two meant no and apparently there was also a scratching noise that he would make if he didn't want to answer a question oh like if they were crossing a boundary mhm or maybe like annoyed him okay they learned that dorotha was the eldest daughter and was very spoiled she

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was a beautiful woman but physically and mentally very cruel she refused to Bear him any children and the two mostly live separate lives and then through throughout these conversations they pieced together a timeline of Philip's life which we'll enter into the video when it's like his parents dying the wars that he fought in he was friends of Charles I and there were also some elements that they were incorrect about history

Philip's behaviors and tricks

and Philip would correct them okay this is starting to make me think it's weird this is blowing my mind because if this person didn't already exist in some version of the timeline then if they create him and he knows these things about history what is he drawing upon right is he now did he actually get put back into history and people will remember him as being an actual person is simulation yeah yeah is this a simulation they basically became Sims creator Rose Bud semicolon semicolon

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semic semicolon throughout all these they would try to change up parts of the control to see like if it was it the table that was impacting the knocking so they would change the table and the knocking would still continue they would change location and it was just no matter where this group of eight people were when they were together they could conjure Philip no matter what no matter where they could do it they tried wooden tables large ones small ones and they also studied the sessions to make sure no one in the group was doing anything they tried sessions where like one person stood away from the table they' like move people off the table to basically make sure that there was no room for human involvement yeah yeah now that everything was getting you know there was a lot of communication they would have people who were not part of the experiment come in and witness and watch and observe one day Dorothy made a comment that she was tired and told Phillip to lay down because basically Philip was so active and Dorothy's like my goodness like Philip if you're not

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tired we are like please lay down and truly the table literally moved turning to the side legs up as if Philip was now the table Shing laying down down that's so weird apparently philli seemed to favor Sid and like chased him around the room in the table the more they communicated the one that was into the maps and astronomy or oh that was L I think Sid was the one who everyone made fun of he grew a beard recently oh which makes sense that Philip is now also teasing him too because Philip is being created by this group who it seems like everyone of the group loved Sid it's a part of playful and teasing in the same

Philip turns aggressive

way it's the dynamic of the friend group Dr Owen's son Robin was very I mean so many people were skeptical of this they had heard all of these findings and they were like come come on how real is this so people now started to go into the room and observe and every time they

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would see and witness the knocking the table moving apparently when Dr Owen's son went in the table instantly moved towards him as if to like be like who is this new person oh God to study him it's wild how consistent it is every single time every time I think after they first made communication there was not a single session where they did not communicate with Phillip and Philip always responded with purpose it was with specific intention that he would knock or move about the room and sometimes the knocks would come from the walls as if like he was in the other room feels very Jeff the [ __ ] right and it would be confirmed that there was no one in the room so it basically if a knock came from this wall right here we know that no one's outside yeah everyone was really thrilled by this but one evening a member made a comment that philli did not like Philip seemed to be tired one evening and I guess made a remark well Phillip if you don't answer we can just as easily send you away you

55:00

know they created Phillip they could destroy Phillip fighting words Philip didn't like that and very soon after members of the group began falling ill two members fell sick with the flu Oh my God others were depleted of energy migraine headaches were panging the Interiors of member skulls so was this simply an overexertion or was Philip perhaps angry did they in fact create a a ghost was Philip who they thought up or had philli become something else entirely was Philip a madeup conjured Spirit or perhaps this was a spirit that utilized the intent of the group's belief in Phillip to earn favor and Trust from the group because Philip was growing stronger he would playfully chase people around the room with the use of the table but one evening he trapped Denise physically harming her oh my God then the table also trying to escape the room moving towards the

56:00

exit is he possessing the table like that's his haunted artifact of choice it's so bizarre but it it does I mean I brought up this concern in the very beginning which was is it actually Phillip or is this some other entity because if you think about it the fact that activity happened every single time does feel a little bit more entity showing up for their meal because they're there to pump him with energy every single week consistently consistently without questioning if this was good or bad Philip was no

Listener ghost stories part 1

longer an idea Philip was alive a creature of its own and he was not to remain locked up for their own experimentation so in part two we will discuss what became of Phillip and the conclusions of the experiment their impact on the Paranormal world and parapsychology studies and we'll find out if Philip ever escaped that room and if Denise SE was harmed again oh my go continued jeez what a cliffhanger right when he's getting right when he's turning evil yeah

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turning into his own creature it's like Frankenstein you know yeah a little bit of the bell witch cave too absolutely well I mean that's the biggest thing about anything in the Paranormal is even if you do create it how do you then control it or can you even control it I don't think you can right also there's eight members we don't know everything that's happening in everyone's personal lives I mean maybe they're very close but there might be some darkness in one of them that they accidentally manifested into this Spirit yeah and when they go home is the experiment over for them mentally or are they continuing to talk about him to feed him with energy yeah to tell all of the people around them about him curious I'm nervous for this whole group right now to be continued to be continued okay well I didn't know anything about Philip you just Philip the ghost so I was like I have no freaking idea what this is pH so I chose two emails from our inbox one

Listener ghost stories part 2

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about a ghost named philli oh and one from a person named Phillip about a ghost I trying to cover the bases amazing this first one is called The Unwanted third roommate H hello ladies it's Jen from Jack sville oh I like do we know Jen from jackonville I have some more spooky stories for you this story takes place place after I come home from my study abroad which I had sent in my last email okay I moved into my first apartment with an old cooworker of mine and we had a resident ghost named Phillip that I thought followed me from Italy but it turns out he was actually just attached to my apartment oh anyway after I moved in nothing happened and I was really happy to be ghost free and with a place of my own but this did not last long I remember feeling that something was watching us sometimes or that we weren't alone and it really creeped me out but I just thought nothing of it I never felt scared just more on edge because it was

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an uncomfortable feeling we jokingly blamed things on our ghost like someone not doing the dishes and stupid stuff like that I started to notice that my Smart TV in our living room was left on in the mornings when I woke up this is a pet peeve of mine so I told her and she made an effort anytime I was around to turn off the TV when she was done using it I started to notice the TV was on more mornings at one point and I started keeping track of it and I saw her turn off weird I know but I was a broke college kid who didn't want to pay for it on the bill so I just chocked it up to maybe her being forgetful and maybe that she was a little inconsiderate which she is but that's besides the point I feel like Philip is like stirring the pot there I know sometimes I would see her turn off the TV and the next morning it would be on again but she was always sound asleep when I woke up to see this and around this point our front door's dead bolt started to unlock itself during the night I would remember locking the the door myself and I would go to work early in the morning and that would be completely unlocked when I would get to

1:00:00

the door again my roommate was comos and her quarters cool band name he it is comat to on your quarters we started putting a chair in front of the door so if anyone came into our apartment we would wake up it's so scary I know I'd also be scared that I was sleepwalking or something right unlocking the door turning on the TV yeah I'm from a strict household and I'm a true crime junkie so I'm never leaving the door unlocked so this really drove me up the wall the first night I went to go to work as usual placing the chair as close as I could to the door and then deud bolting it behind me Midway through my shift my roommate texted me asking if I put the chair back when I left I started panicking and I could not remember because I thought I did but what if I didn't what if I spaced out and I thought that I did when I left but I knew deep down that I moved the chair into position before I left and I was terrified of it being moved I finished my shift and I came home and my roommate's boyfriend was over and my boyfriend came over we started watching Coco because I'd never seen it and I guess I was looking for a good cry

1:01:00

session a i streamed it from my phone like I would anything else and we got halfway through the movie and then the picture froze and we assumed that maybe it was just buffering all of the sudden the TV let out this horrific sound it was not static like what happens in the movies but it sounded like the movie was a VHS player that got stuck in a spot but the volume of the TV went up to 100 we had it on 25 and so this was weird and and then this electronic yelling sound came out of the TV and it didn't stop for a whole minute and for some reason minute yes for some reason my normally frightened self laughed at the TV and yelled Phillip stop leave it alone and then I proceeded to laugh until everything cut off the TV turned completely off the room suddenly dark I felt my heart drop all the way down to Hell the TV said it was restarting which I have no clue how to do since I would need a remote to do that and I don't own one and then everything went back to normal and yes I did still

1:02:00

SOB like a newborn watching Coco but I will say I've owned this TV for a while and it has never done that and I can't find any complaints online about the TV acting up in this way right everyone said it was just a coincidence but if it was a coincidence why did I feel a young boy [ __ ] with us right anywh who that was the last major thing that happened besides the occasional spook and the TV has never turned on randomly since I moved from that apartment and I guarantee I will never live in that complex ever again it was a [ __ ] hole anyway the ghost was just the icing on the cake I know you were probably yelling at me to get some crystals or some Sage but I was trained to think that both were evil so I didn't buy any my roommate staged the apartment though and I'm a baby witch so I have more crystals in Sage than I can imagine now who knew deconstructing my belief system would end up protecting me more Jen from ja I'm curious where the name philli came from but I know did they just just fell up jokingly fell up or I mean it

1:03:00

sounds like Jen also is very in tune maybe without knowing it because to have the Instinct of like a little boy [ __ ] with them you know sometimes you just have to trust that and I also thought it was interesting that Philips seemed intent on haunting them during Coco specifically because that is it's about spirit world it is very scary the unlocking the front door which makes me wonder if more people in the complex were haunted and perhaps Philip was actually just making his rounds and he would just leave every night and just leave the door unlocked cuz he would leave and he would lock up he didn't have a key and I guess he wasn't trying to go through the walls ghosts want to use the doors too I guess although if I were I don't know if I as a human could walk through walls I would do that over using doors every day oh 100% most direct path fewest steps exactly always okay I have a short one from someone named Phil so assuming that's full name fil up okay a creepy ghost story from my teen years hi guys new listener here but this was in 2019 so hopefully still

1:04:00

listening hopefully still veteran listener now I've been enjoying the podcast and some of them even remind me of things that have happened to me or my dad in the past this is just one of the few creepy stories that I have so here we go I had moved out of state with my mother and my sister and I was visiting my dad in California I hadn't been there in a while so we were doing the typical rounds of visiting my various family members that lived near my dad my dad called up one of my aunts and said hey Phil is in town we just want to come by for a little bit is that okay and my aunt says yeah we would love to see him just come on over so we left his house and we got to my aunt uncle's house within 20 minutes of that phone call we pulled up to the house and their car wasn't there confused we went and we knocked on the door but no one answered so we walked back to the car annoyed because we drove all the way out there and they told us to come and then they weren't answering we called the house again and no one answered but we could see the blinds in the living room being held open slightly like someone was looking at us watching from the blinds

1:05:00

I'd be so worried I'd be like is everything okay yeah and then the blinds closed shut as if whatever or whoever was looking at us had just been caught staring my dad and I were now even more kind of irritated because obviously someone was home so we call my aunt's cell phone she answers and my dad says what's up we called you you told us to come over and then you're not answering your door and my aunt replies what are you talking about we're in LA right now we haven't been home all morning Los Angeles is about a 2hour drive from this house so we had just talked to someone in the house not even 30 minutes before and to this day I still have not gone back to their home and this was 13 years ago holy [ __ ] my grandmother on my dad's side is very perceptive to spirits and things like that and I've recently found out that she was a witch doctor in Mexico when she was younger Phil I want her stories I know and she has always said that there's the spirit of a small child in that house that would hide when people came over but this Spirit liked my grandmother and would often play

1:06:00

hideand-seek with her when she was over nope big not I also found out through talking with my dad that my aunt had had a miscarriage before my older cousin was born so we wondered if perhaps this little child was the spirit but even if this ghost is technically family I think I'm good in my earlier childhood I also remember that at night my cousin would play in his room but it would sound like there were two kids playing but he was an only child at the time lots of weird things happened in their house and probably still do but you will not be finding me there anytime soon from Phil okay it's one thing if it's a little child but the mimicking the aunt's voice and telling them to come over seems different from a child right and it's not like you're calling someone random like you're calling someone whose voice you know and have learned your entire life right and have heard for decades like this is an adult woman this is an aunt this is your sister your calling and had a full conversation with yeah we would love to see Phil yeah come on over

1:07:00

I'm glad that they called the aunt on her cell phone and she answered and was like what the [ __ ] because I would be so concerned that someone had like broken in and harmed them you know yeah right right especially with the blind someone's clearly inside there jeez so creepy okay well Phil we have a lot of questions and also you have a lot more stories to share with us you do the one positive about this is that Phil's grandmother who who was a witch doctor in Mexico anyone who has had that profession or that experience in life I like trust inherently mhm she did not have bad vibes about this house and we go over and play with this little boy so yes it's creepy but at least in that way I am not terrified of the house that's true but it is still so creepy it's like well again this could be a prank like it's a funny little thing like will they actually come over and then when they do you're like suddenly nervous as a kid being like Oh my God they're actually coming actually came I regret doing this prank this was fun maybe the Little Ghost did want to see Phil yeah we love true pH Phil go say hi to the ghost boy

1:08:00

it's been 15 years he misses you so much he misses you and we'll miss you until next week when we continue with Philip the ghost a creation or a creature creat creat if you have any ghost stories if you think you created a ghost or if you've experienced hauntings from Sven who is the ghost that we as a community have created or conjured we don't know please email all of your experiences to us at two girl1 GOP podcast gmail.com it's linked in our show notes so you can see it it's also on our website and in our Instagram bio all of our social media assets have it and it's also on the YouTube right here if you're watching the video you can follow us on social media we have YouTube we have patreon where you get ad free one week early episodes plus every Tuesday night we have campfire stories which are live ghost stories we have book club we have discounts on merch we have exclusive perks on patreon so head on over there there check it out and shout out to Jamie Ryan who edits both our video and our audio and does such an incredible

1:09:00

job we really appreciate you Jamie we love you all and you oh actually well almost stole your line you stole my line in the beginning I almost stole yours and we will see you on the other I'm whispering now I thought we were swapping do you want and we will see you on the other side very me