Murder in New Jersey | The Hall Mills Murder & Pig Lady Road Urban Legend and Hauntings (Ep 355)

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A halfwoman, half animal, specifically half pig.

Wow.

That jumped out in front of your car and is now screaming. This whole episode is the Pig Lady Road, the urban legend, and how it was inspired by the Hall Mills murder of 1922. Yeah,

very spooky.

Hello, Jambo.

What's up, everyone?

What is up? This is Two Girls, One Ghost. Two Girls, One Ghost.

I'm sitting kind of far from my microphone, so I hope that's not too much of an issue.

Yeah, I am too.

I'll shout. Everyone would love that. [laughter] Karen is the shouter. Sabrina is the whisperer. And some people hate the whispering.

But you know what? We are like

600 episodes in at this point or

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something.

Not changing it.

It's two seconds of the episode.

You can skip it. You know when it's coming. Anyway, hi. This is Sven. I have a long episode for us today.

So, I figured

I picked a very short listener story. So, this is great. We might

do a little less chitchatting. Yeah, we've been chatting less on the top

because people also say they don't like that. So,

see, we we try to meet you in the middle. We can't do everything just for you

for a couple minutes.

Yeah, but I'm going to start this episode just we're going to dive right into it.

Great.

Pig Lady Road introduction

This is a tale from a place where I was born.

Weird New Jersey.

Weird New Jersey. The OG weird state.

OG weird state. And if you were born in New Jersey, like little old me, you are no stranger to the weird New Jersey tales. There's stories of Clinton Road, the Jersey Devil, the Devil's Tree, so many others. It's a part of your childhood when you grow up in New Jersey.

Totally.

So, I want to start this episode.

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Yeah. I was born there. That's the weirdest thing that happened.

Well, I'm even just thinking about like the start of like modern day America, like United States of America. It's like you wanted to have a duel, you had to go to New Jersey. It was a lawless [laughter]

there was no law

lands

creatures both human and not

true

live in New Jersey.

With New Jersey in mind, I'm going to ask that all of you try to get into the mind of 17-year-old Sabrina. You're clutching your brand spanking new ID. My braces had just been removed, so I was really flashing those pearly whites. My parents had cautioned me of the responsibilities that come with being a licensed driver. No drinking and driving. No texting and driving. Follow the speed limit and beware the haunted roads of New Jersey.

So, now that everyone is totally imagining that they are me. Picture this. It's late at night, past midnight. You're probably wearing a push-up bra. One of those Victoria's Secret ones with

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the like little gel pads that really push it up.

Oh [laughter] my god, that brings me back. As if the padding needed more padding. It was so padding. You could remove it.

Your nipples were on over the top of the bra. Like it was

Yeah.

Damn. And their bikini tops.

I looked like a bodybuilder. Like it didn't cover anything.

Oh, it didn't cover anything.

Oh, but they were so good. We love them.

And yes, now you're really me. It's past midnight. You're driving down rural New Jersey road blasting and singing along to Kesha.

Of course.

It's narrow.

Tick tock. And Whoa, that was [laughter]

The road is narrow. It's tree covered, absent of any source of light other than your headlights. And the darkness seems alive. As you drive along this road, something changes. The energy in your car feels charged, staticky. The darkness outside becomes darker than dark. And then all of a sudden, a woman jumps

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out in front of your car screaming. Her unexpected presence is startling in its own right, as is the sound of her screaming, piercing the night. But her physical appearance is downright terrifying. Because this is a halfwoman, half animal, specifically half pig.

Wow.

That jumped out in front of your car and is now screaming.

Oh my gosh. Miss Piggy,

what do you do?

Shriek.

[ __ ] yourself.

I don't know. Just pee into a puddle.

Wish you could disappear like the squonk. Like I truly like I don't know what I would do. I think I'd be paralyzed with fear. It would be quite terrifying. But let's say you survive this horrific event. You naturally, if you're me, go home and you research the hell out of this. What the heck did you just see? And that is when you learn all about Pig Lady Road. This is an urban legend that has many different locations

urban legend

in New Jersey. So there's not one specific Pig Lady Road. And so with many urban legends, the origins and manner in

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which or how they appear vary. Shout out to Weird New Jersey. Literally this book, I have a book from 2005. It's a weird New Jersey like book that I think my mom gave me.

Oh, so good.

In middle school. I was going to say I'm pretty sure they had them at the Scholastic book sale. Like I remember weird New Jersey books.

Well, so they were like small ones, but then this is like a big one. It's like the like Guinness World Record size version of Weird New Jersey.

I love that. Yeah. You have that?

I have it. Yeah.

That feels like a collector's item.

It has a sticker that says 20% off. So, [laughter] but I found this story from there and then like some of the research I have from there too. So, as the legend goes, there is a road or multiple roads nicknamed Pig Lady Road in honor of the paranormal being that roams and haunts the long stretch of country road. Some people say that if you drive down this road off of Roycefield Road in Hillsboro, New Jersey, and honk your

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horn, a woman with a pig head will appear, her pig head glowing in the middle of the road. Others say you can summon the pig lady by driving down the road, parking, turning your car off, then flashing your headlights three times while screaming, "Pig lady."

Oh my gosh. What?

And looking in your rearview mirror.

Wait. Okay. Wait. She What's her physical head of a pig, body of a lady?

Yeah. Another iteration claims that if you drive down the road at midnight specifically, the pig lady will jump in front of your car weeping. And she's weeping in due to the shame of her disfigured face. Very squonk of her.

Very squonk.

And also very sad.

Is she wearing clothes?

I think so. Nothing talks about a naked lady.

Okay. Yeah.

Okay.

This iteration does say that she only comes out at night choosing to hide herself during the day. Now, the most terrifying way to conjure the pig lady and encounter her for yourself. This is for the tempters, the darers, and the

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dum dums. If you choose to call upon the pig lady, you must bring another person with you. So, you can't do this one alone. You can head out onto this road and then in order to conjure her, you must annoy her first. So, you go down this road with your friend or victim um or offering whoever this person is to you, and you park, then you flash your lights and beep and scream pig lady over and over and over. Then you kick that offering sacrifice out of your car, the human being friend of yours, and leave them behind on the street as you drive off. And you have to drive all the way to the end of the road. You cannot look back in your rearview mirror at all. You have to just keep driving until you reach the end. Only then when you reach the end of the road, can you turn back around. And you might be wondering, well, how long is this? Is it 30 seconds of a drive to the end of the road? No. This round trip takes like 10 minutes.

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So you are leaving someone or maybe you are being left there for 10 minutes.

You abandoning your friend after screaming pig lady is supposed to annoy her so much that she actually comes out.

Yeah.

Probably to comfort your friend who is terrified.

So it is said that the person who's left behind on the road will encounter pig lady. Many people are traumatized by it. There was one story in the weird New Jersey book and it was like from the pig hunter. So, who knows who this man was, but um he said that like him and his friends, it could be a she, I don't know. They said that them and their friends like went to do this in high school

and the girl that they left outside, they found her like cowering, crying in the bushes off the road when they came back and after that she never talked to them again. They have no idea what she

was she volunteering or did they just abandon?

They were all going there for this pig lady experience.

Okay. So, okay. [gasps] Yeah. Yeah.

You know what just came into my mind is I was thinking about like if we ever did it and I do think we have a listener who

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would volunteer to be

what is it?

I think for Pig Later.

Yeah.

What listener?

I think Eric would get out of the car.

Eric would do anything.

Eric is so brave.

I definitely would.

He's in the cemetery every other day.

Yeah. When we do campfire stories, which is like our live come join us on Patreon, tell ghost

people their cameras on cuz he's like on Zoom and stuff.

He is often in a cemetery. Yeah, he's already I think Eric would gladly volunteer and we would get to be in the safety of the car and go to the end of the road and back.

Okay, here's Oh, yeah. I did see I saw like the shape of a woman. She had a pig head. I tried to get a picture of her.

He'd be so scientific about it.

So chill.

Okay, here's a poll.

Or you'd be like, I was really scared. But like [laughter]

but still like very calm about it. Monotone.

Cooler about it than us.

Here's a poll. You're in a car with Karen and I driving down Pig Lady Road. Do you sacrifice yourself and stand outside?

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Or which one of us do you sacrifice?

Everyone's going to say me. I know it.

Because you're braver.

Cuz I do because I do dumb [ __ ]

Well, you're more likely in the moment to be like, I'll do it.

Yeah. So true.

There's like zero chance I would say I would do it.

Yeah. No, there's enough evidence of me doing stupid things like that. Like

you'd have to pry me out of the car.

And there's no prying you out of the car.

No. And if I get out of the car, 911. I was abandoned. Kidnappers are on their way.

My friends.

Okay. So, these are the different iterations on how you can conjure the Pig Lady on Piglet Lady Road. But again, the road itself is not very consistent. So, some people say this road is in Hillsboro, New Jersey. Others say that it's somewhere else. The things that are consistent is that it is in New Jersey and that the pig lady is grotesqually deformed. I hate the word grotesque when describing someone. It makes me feel so bad.

origins of the urban legend

I know. Well, that brings us to the origins of this urban legend cuz it's

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always like something had to happen to start like spreading a rumor that kind of bred the urban legend which

which is part of why I asked if she was clothed because I was just thinking about like all the horrible things and why she's

there are fortunately no I mean some of these are violent but there's no like sexual violence

okay

stories to the origin okay so what inspired this haunting tale that has left countless teens terri ified in the middle of New Jersey roads at midnight. There are a couple legends behind the legend. So, yes, content warning for violent crimes, but fortunately, the ones I'm about to tell to you, there's no evidence of them ever actually happening. One story tells of a husband who returned home from work and decapitated his wife. When police got there, they never found the woman's head. Again, no truth to the story.

Yeah. Another tragic origin story tells of a young girl born in the area who was deemed so ugly and grotesque by her father that he chopped off a pig's head

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and put it a top his daughter's head. Then people say the reason that if you believe this origin story that the reason the pig lady haunts the land is that she is trying to steal a more beautiful head aka your head.

Oh. Oh well, you know what? I don't think that's true cuz you have to do a lot to even coax her out.

That's true. I think she's minding her own business.

Yeah. A third iteration of the backstory is that the pig lady in life was the maid of a wealthy tobacco family called the Dukes. And the Dukes did exist. I didn't do a ton of research into them, but the Duke family lived just off this road. And unfortunately, one night a horrible fire broke out. This part, not sure if that's true, but unfortunately, so goes the legend. This maid was trapped on the second floor and unable to get free from the flames. Her only escape was through the window, so she jumped, but she landed on her face. Oh no. And she survived but had so many shattered bones in her face. Her face became very very disfigured. And it is said that she disappeared to live in the woods that bordered the Duke family

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estate. And that she continues to haunt this area, hiding during the day, weeping in the darkness of night.

Oh, I feel whatever the origin is, it's like it there's no good tale. It's all tragic and sad for a lady.

Yes. But we'll get to the real what I believe is the real origin, which will be the crux of this episode. But the last iteration of the origin story before what I think is the real origin story is the story of the angry, reclusive pig farmer who was sick of teenagers who continued to show up at her farm and harass her at night. So, one evening when the teens arrived as per usual, this lady farmer grabbed her axe and stomped outside, murdering every single one of the children before burying them in her garden.

Oh my god, that is not the direction I thought you were going to go. I thought she was going to put a pig head on to scare them.

Nope. [gasps]

Jesus, that escalated quickly. All of these versions are awful and tragic.

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From murders to just like belittling women based on their appearance, none of them are they're not enjoyable and you don't you hope that they didn't happen.

Yeah.

Which fortunately, none of these are based in historical fact or based in like evidence. So where did this urban legend really come from? What if this isn't a story about a disfigured woman or about a woman murdered at all or about a woman who did the murdering? What if this is about a woman who worked on a pig farm that was witnessed to a sensational crime, true crime that is to this day still unsolved. And I put unsolved in quotations because you'll see. But that's right. I believe this urban legend of Pig Lady Road in New Jersey was born and inspired by the true unsolved Hall Mills double murder that took place in 1922 in Somerset County, New Jersey. The county that I was born in, by the way. Damn. This kind of makes

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sense because it's like if you were witnessed to something and then like it was so traumatic in spirit form after like there's some sort of like melding of Okay, I'll let you continue cuz your your face is like it's not this case is absolutely wild just like the twists and turns that happen and it's not even going to be how you expect it to be. But almost every single one of those plausible origin stories has a piece of [ __ ]

the true story.

Okay,

Hall-Mills murder

so this whole episode is the Pig Lady Road, the urban legend and how it was inspired by the Hall Mills murder of 1922. So it was a chilly Saturday morning on September 16th, 1922 when two local teenagers decided to take a walk through their town of New Brunswick. And this couple, they're romantic. So, they decide to go to the area that is known

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as Lover's Lane. They decide to wander the open fields near Darusi's Lane. And it was there that the girl noticed something strange in the distance at the foot of a crab apple tree. From afar, it looked like a lump. Maybe an animal.

So curious, they approached it. But as they came closer, they froze. For what they were seeing was no animal, but a horrific crime scene. Lying beneath the tree were two bodies lying side by side, carefully arranged, a man and a woman, both of whom were certainly dead. What followed this discovery of the two bodies was a truly sensationalized case of extrammarital affairs, jilted lovers, a double murder, cover-ups, power dynamics, disappearing evidence, and guess who is the only witness brave enough to come forward? a farmer who became known as the pigwoman. [sighs and gasps]

Oh [ __ ]

And this murder.

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Support your local farmers. Protect them.

Protect them. Truly, I wish we could protect Pigwoman. But this murder didn't just inspire the pig lady wrote urban legend. It also inspired F. Scott Fitzgerald's novel, The Great Gatsby.

What? This is so crazy. Oh, it's it's like bananas. And I'm like, how the hell did this inspire The Great Gatsby? You'll see. We'll get there. As content warning, this episode does discuss a very real and very gruesome murder. So, there I want to like while this is sensational and it became such a sensational case, it like two people did get killed and they were murdered

and it technically is an unsolved murder. No one has been held accountable for their crimes,

which is devastating because as you'll see, it's very clear.

Somerset County has a lot of unsolved crimes.

Great place to Somerset man. There was a case there was a more like recent case too.

Yeah.

But there's a lot of corruption which happens

also like per cap like New Jersey is the most densely packed place population

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wise

is it?

Yeah.

Huh.

In the US.

Go Jersey.

So there's a lot of people. So there's a lot of

crime

opportunity for crime and unsolved.

So yes, this is just content warning for people who are listening. And there is one photo of a crime scene that I will be showing in the YouTube video. But I will give a heads up before it is placed on screen and it will only be shown once. So let's go back to the crime scene. It's the early morning of September 16th, 1922 when these two lovers on a walk make the awful discovery of the murder. Naturally terrified, they run from the crime scene and find a neighbor who contacts the police. When the police arrive to the scene, they see a very dramatic display. There are two bodies laying dead on their backs, so face up. The man had been shot in his head once, the woman three times. It was very clear that after the murder, these bodies were deliberately positioned and posed. The two of them were lying with their feet pointing towards the crab apple tree.

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The woman's head was resting on the man's right arm. Her left hand rested on the man's right knee. And a hat had been placed very carefully at top the man's face. So, it seems like the woman was a target cuz she was shot three times and the man only once. And I would almost assume the opposite in terms of trying to eliminate the the bigger threat when trying to murder someone. Like I would think that you would try to overkill the guy to make sure that he was dead and couldn't come for you when interesting theory.

The woman had a blood soaked scarf wrapped around her neck. And it had it not been for the gunshot wounds and all the blood, it would have looked like two lovers taking this like very peaceful, romantic nap beneath the tree.

It's really upsetting.

With the gunshot wounds, it was clear that these two were murdered and posed. And the strangest, most dramatic part of this crime scene is scattered around the bodies were scraps of paper and cards.

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They were love letters that had been torn into pieces scattered amongst these two people. So this is a very like deliberate crime.

Personal too.

Very very personal. I am going to now show the crime scene in the YouTube video. It was taken in 1922. So it's not like graphic and bloody and it is black and white. But here it is.

Oh wow. So, it was very very clear to the police on the scene that this was a purposeful murder and had personal ties like it was vengeful. But

I mean it sounds like someone had access to or collected love letters whether it be between these two or between one of the people in this couple and the person who attacked.

Yeah.

Brought it premeditated brought it with them.

This was very feels like it right.

Yeah. Totally. So the question is, who are these victims? Who murdered them? And why? Pig lady knows. Krin, you have

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background on the victims

So, the victims turned out to be 41-year-old Reverend Edward Wheeler Hall and 34year-old Mrs. Eleanor R. Mills, both of whom were married, not to one another. Oh [ __ ] With the identification of the victims, a story began to emerge. [snorts] And it became clear that the letters that were scattered about the crime scene were secret love letters that had been exchanged between Reverend Hall and Eleanor Mills. The two had been having an affair, cheating on their respective partners. Also, keep in mind, reverend, reverend of a church with the steeple, which they're allowed to get married, but right, but like an unholy

are they allowed to have affairs? Probably not. Sinner, it seemed clear,

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and I think we can all agree, even though we are not trained police or investigators, that whoever had done this had reason to be upset and felt wronged by their affair.

Mhm. the husband of Elanor Mills and the wife of Reverend Paul. You would think you would think it'd be a relatively easy case to close. But as I've said, this is still an unsolved murder. So, that has not happened. But before we get into the suspects and how this case became so sensational and outrageous, let's talk more about the victims. Reverend Edward Hall was born in 1880 in Brooklyn, New York, and he grew up in a very religious home and eventually followed his own spiritual path becoming a reverend. At some point he moves to New Brunswick, New Jersey to serve at St. John the Evangelist. And he becomes a crucial part of society because people during this time like 1920s in Somerset County, religion was like a crux of the society

and he took his job very seriously. He got very involved in like the lives of his parishioners. People confided in

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him. He would have dinner at people's homes. Like he was more than just a reverend. He was people's friend.

Yeah. The church was a cornerstone of New Brunswick society. And during this time in New Jersey and also kind of globally or like countrywide, there was a very clear divide between people. Think Great Gatsby where it's like the ultra rich

and then the working class.

Yeah.

The ultra rich are getting ultra ultra rich. And

so this is a very divided town. Both of these types of people are going to St. John Evangelist Church, but Reverend Hall and he's friendly with all of them, but because the ultra rich are coming to this church, he starts to rub shoulders with them. Not in like a malicious way, but like in a natural, that's his job. He's around these people. He becomes ingrained in their daily lives. He befriends them. And then he married one. In 1911, Reverend Edward Hall married a woman named Francis Noel Stevens. She was a bit older than he was and she was

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from one of New Jersey's wealthiest and most powerful families of all time and they also had ties to the Johnson family of Johnson and Johnson. So rich, like ultra rich. There's not a ton regarding the makeup of their marriage, but Edward Hall and Francis Hall, or Francis Stevens, now Hall, were deemed polite and respectable. But clearly, the marriage wasn't something was wrong because Edward sought companionship elsewhere with another member of the church, someone of the lower workingclass part of the church, Miss Eleanor Mills. Eleanor Mills was the complete opposite of Edward's wife, Francis. Eleanor was born in 1888 and grew up in a working-class family in New Jersey. She came from very little.

And as a teenager, Eleanor married a man named James Mills, the groundskeeper or the Sexton at St. John's Church. So, everyone here is involved with the church, the same church.

Together, Eleanor and her husband James

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had two children and they were living a very modest life full of financial hardship.

It is believed that this financial hardship did strain their marriage. But Eleanor was this lively woman. She was a dreamer. She was romantic. She was a part of the church choir. She was like very involved with the community. And it's not entirely clear when Eleanor and Edward first met. But given their involvement with the church, they were around each other often. Edward was the reverend. Eleanor was married to the caretaker and involved in the church choir. So they saw each other a lot, if not every day. And eventually by 1919, these two were having a fullon relationship. Both of them cheating on their respective partners. And neither of them are really playing it cool. Parishioners were very aware of this chemistry between Edward and Eleanor. And it was so not secret that the morning before they were discovered murdered, the morning after they disappeared, Eleanor's husband made a

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comment to Edward's wife joking maybe they finally ran off together and gloat. Like everyone was aware of this affair.

Yeah. So it's like it's said as a joke, but really deep down it's because there's deep suspicion or knowledge that it's happening.

Exactly. So their affair was publicish. And the question is like unfortunately because they are deceased like we don't get to know why they didn't just divorce their spouses and why didn't they just go be together but they continue this affair and they wrote very descriptive love letters to one another. Like this is a big part of the case especially because their bodies were discovered with remnants of the love letters like scattered around their bodies.

Eleanor wrote of her longing and her devotion to Edward. Edward wrote of escaping together of protecting her and their beautiful future together. There are a couple. You can find some remnants of the love letters online. There are a couple that I'm going to put photos of into the YouTube video. So, if you want to pause to read all of them, I'm just going to read like one little snippet.

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It always feels so personal like letters.

But I do love We've talked about this before where there's been like times where celebrities or people will read love letters, like historic love letters, and some of them are like very graphic and disacious. the like OG sexing.

Yeah.

I actually have a bundle of love letters that my great-grandmother wrote to my great-grandfather.

Yeah, they're like handwritten, too. It's like so beautiful.

Okay, so I'm going to read one of these. Dear, dear, darling heart of mine. Only four more days and I will be home again. All your dear letters received gladly, joyfully, and raptiously. I love you to tell me anecdotes of your childhood days of how you longed for your man even then. Fling your arms now to the wise heavens for the heaven of heaven cannot contain that vast infinite love that pours more and more out of my heart toward you. You most wonderful lover, we most wonderful lovers. What a heaven we

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make about it and in us. Can I ever wait for four days to pass?

Wow. It is very lovely. It's very poetic.

Very. So yeah, they're having a full-on affair. They're exchanging secret love letters. They're hiding. They truly were like hiding the letters in different books in I think the church library. And they like knew what book it was in.

Oh my god.

Yeah. They would slip off with one another and steal time here and there.

Under the ceiling, the roof of the church under his eye.

Damn.

Yeah. And they would go and like rendevous together. One of their favorite meeting spots was just off Lover's Lane, the road near Derusi's Lane, the same place that on the night of September 14th, 1922, they took their last breaths.

And I forgot that they died already. Now I'm upset again.

I know. And this again, like this is not condoning an affair, but no one should be murdered.

No. No.

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I wouldn't say no one.

Okay. Murder is wrong objectively.

Yeah. And in this case, Edward and Eleanor did not deserve to be murdered specifically. So, after Edward and

the night of the murders

Eleanor's bodies were found on the morning of September 16th, 1922, there was a lot of investigative work taking place, and people were trying to piece together their final moments and the night that led up to the murder. So, they were discovered on September 16th, but the last time they had ever been seen was September 14th.

So, this is the timeline that investigators learned. On the afternoon of Thursday, September 14th, 1922, Francis Hall, Edward's wife, was at home making preserves when her phone rang. It was a call from Miss Eleanor Mills, asking for the reverend. She leaves a message with Francis, Edward's wife, and then calls again at 7:00 p.m. Then around 7:40 p.m., Edward tells his wife, Francis, he has to go check on Mrs. Mill's medical bill. again, not being discreet,

but it's also like there were some sources that he said he went to go check

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on a parishioner, which was not out of the normal because

yeah,

reverends did make lots of house calls like at any time of day. It wasn't uncommon for him to go check on other parishioners like before he was having his affair. This was normal for him.

I feel like his reason like he could have said something else like, "Oh, I think that there might be some like marital issues or something like I need to go over. She seems

scared for she seems scared." I do think there's a place, we'll get to it later, but Edward literally paid for Eleanor's medical bills. Like she had a surgery that was like a life-threatening surgery that she needed to do, but they because they're working class didn't have the money for it. And Edward, married to ultra rich, has the money and paid for her surgery,

which I imagine Francis had to know about.

Wait, Edward's the reverend.

Yeah. Married to the ultra rich.

Yes. So, did he use the church's money then?

No, he used his family's money.

He used his family's money. Yeah. So, I think him saying I have to go check on the medical bill

cuz the family money I'm like if you use the church's money it would be more hidden than

Sure.

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And really like you're donating to churches for the churches to also do good back to the community. So if it's to help the different parishioners at certain times of need like I think that that is actually good use of the donations and the money like you

think I think the point being is that when he says he has to go check on Mrs. Mill's medical bill. My theory is that it's a medical bill that he has paid for that Francis is aware of.

But it's still if you're having an affair, lie better, you know, like don't say you're going to check on Mrs. Mill.

Yeah. Like he he could have not that we're condoning it, but like he could have hidden it maybe a little bit better.

Yes.

But maybe that was the point is like he's trying to

as true close to the truth.

Close to the truth as possible. So it's like what do you mean? Like I you knew I was paying for her bills,

right? So anyway, Edward, this is around like 7:40, around 8:00 p.m. on September 14th, Edward grabs his hat and heads out. Meanwhile, Eleanor is at home with her family eating dinner. And after dinner, she tells her daughter that she's going on a walk. And I thought this was unusual, but I guess it's not cuz it's also 1920. She gets dressed in

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a blue dress with red polka dots, black silk stockings, brown oxfords, and a blue velvet hat. I'm like, that's not an outfit for walking. But then they didn't have

in the 1920s.

Exactly. They didn't have like Lululemon and sweatpants and stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. But also in the 1920s I almost maybe I'm like forgetting how fashion was. I feel like that's like a later a later era outfit.

Well, people there was one thing that said that outfit would kind of blend in. It's not like a standout outfit.

Okay. So, she is trying to like disappear into the crowd or whatever. So, she goes on her walk. Of course, neither of them were going or really doing what they told their families they were going to do. They were going to meet up at their favorite Lovers Lane spot on De Brucey's Lane. The two were never again seen alive, and their bodies weren't discovered until a full day and a half later on the morning of September 16th. Upon the discovery, a full investigation began, but so too did a media circus. So almost immediately

34:00

after police showed up, even before that, so like the couple that found the body like ran to the neighbor's house, the police were called. All this commotion is very quickly spreading through town. It's a huge deal that a murder happened, especially when they find out it's the reverend. Like again, he's a cornerstone of the society, right?

People are driving up to this location to like get a look at it. And

to people everyone knew so close to and everyone goes to the church, so everyone knows everyone.

So the lil's and the people who were just curious

only got worse as the case became more public. So the police were able to make note of a few things at the crime scene before ultimately the crime scene was trampled and completely contaminated. They determined one or they wrote down made note of one the way the bodies were displayed how performative and deliberate the placement of the love letters were which was literally a message with a double meaning. They found a 32 caliber cartridge case that was discovered near the bodies. They also discovered a twoft piece of iron

35:00

pipe. maggots were already infesting the bodies indicating stages of decay had already began to happen and then there was grass trampled near the crime scene already. So they either start to the police are like either this is from the couple who found them earlier or they've been out here for some time

people have kind of accidentally wandered upon them and scared were too scared to call it in.

Yeah.

Or this indicates like some type of fight that happened the night of the crime. Other than that, they didn't have much and never would because before long, lucky lose were literally stripping pieces of the crab apple tree for souvenirs and trampling all over the crime scene, contaminating it. There was one newspaper article from the 1920s, like of this time, that said that cars were coming in the thousands. That's crazy. This truly becomes sensational. It becomes a global story,

which is actually like kind of surprising. Like, I get that it's like the reverend is having an affair and

36:00

dies. Well, it's also this ultra rich family.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's one of the missing pieces in my mind.

Unfortunately, people are murdered

secret lover like this stuff happens.

Yeah. But I think this is why it's also in people think it what inspired Great Gatsby because Fcott Fitzgerald he's around during this time living he's reading these are front page news and it's front page news for years.

Wow. And as more details come out,

this is like basically a celebrational so rich.

Yeah, exactly. So the bodies are taken to the morg and when the undertaker removes Reverend Hall's coat, another bullet fell to the floor. He noted discoloration on Edward's right hand and determined that based on decomposition, the estimated time of death was some 36 hours ago, meaning that the murders took place on Thursday, September 14th, 1922, sometime between 8:00 p.m. and midnight. So they had a time frame

and that's like kind of a tight time frame like only four hours. That's good. It's not like it's the whole

37:00

right not like the whole day.

Edward had been shot in the head once over the right ear with an exit wound out the back of his neck. So this indicated that someone had shot him from above like kind of execution style.

Yeah.

Someone in the trees or something when they go to meet in the lover's lane.

I like your theories.

It's hard to like talk about them because I know what happened. Yeah,

Eleanor had been shot three times. Once between the eyes, another over the right temple, and another over the right ear. All with exit wounds in the back of the skull. And her throat had been cut from ear to ear. So it is like overkill like you're saying.

Yeah, she was overkill up close and personal. He was shot from above,

right?

So it's her husband.

You think it's her husband?

Yeah.

Okay. Well, this is perfect segue into the suspects.

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Can we just talk about OCD really quick? cuz I know it's something you've experienced, but it's a very serious and also highly misunderstood condition.

Oh yeah. My mom sent me to therapy when I was 14 cuz I couldn't walk down a

38:00

hallway. If I accidentally scuffed one of my ankles, I'd have to stop and scuff the other one until it felt right. And the same thing would happen with my fingers. Like I'd have to touch something. Oh my gosh, it like totally got in the way of my daily functioning.

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the investigation

So, there wasn't a whole lot in terms of evidence, but the crime scene very clearly had a message. This was about revenge. So, authorities were like,

39:00

"Yeah, this is going to be an opensh shut case, but it's 103 years later and it's still technically unsolved."

Technically, so there's a lot of evidence pointing towards one specific person.

So much. It's infuriating. So, naturally, their prime suspects are the jilted spouses, the ones who had been wronged and would have the motive to kill them and then display the bodies with the love letters. James Mills and Francis Hall. Police go to speak to James Mills, who he at first claims he had no knowledge of the affair and he considered Edward to be a really close friend. So, he

wasn't he the one that made the joke though,

right? So, he lies to the police at first and says he had no knowledge.

Suspicious, right?

Very suspicious. Why lie? He says that Edward was too good a friend of mine. He would never have an affair with my wife. The Reverend had even paid for one of Elanor's major surgeries for him because he couldn't afford it. So, he was like, "The Reverend's an amazing man. He actually has helped my family." But we all know that Edward did this cuz he was in love with Eleanor and he didn't want her to die.

40:00

Despite lying about his knowledge of the affair, James was heartbroken when he found out they were dead and he had an alibi. Oh, so on September 14th, the day of the murder, he basically has an alibi from like 5:00 p.m. till 11:00 p.m. or later. So at 5:45 on September 14th, he was sweeping at St. John's and was late for dinner. Didn't get home till 6:15 p.m. His wife left the house to make a phone call to Reverend Hall and came back before leaving again. When she left for the final time, James asked where she was going. And Eleanor said, is this like I kind of am like, oh, not great for Eleanor to say, but these are the last words she ever said to James. Follow me and find out. Oh, wow. So, they were really not in a good place.

No. Choosing not to go follow Eleanor, James watches her leave and then spends Did they have kids? So, okay. So, they had two kids. And then what about the Reverend?

No. Okay. He watches her leave and then

41:00

he spends a couple hours on the porch doing woodworking. That is seen multiple witnesses see him on his porch for two hours

blowing off steam

and he has kids. They also confirm that he's at home.

How old are the kids?

I don't know specifically.

Yeah. So I'm like she's spending a lot of time sneaking away.

Yeah.

I can't imagine getting to leave my house until children are like 14.

I know. [laughter]

I cannot escape.

So [clears throat] he is working. He goes back inside and then he gets worried about Eleanor's whereabouts. So at 10:30 p.m. he decides to go to the church to look for her. On the way to the church, he stops and gets a soda. All of this he has witnesses. Again, when he gets to the church, he has witnesses. People see him there.

He then returns home around like 11:00 p.m. and goes to bed. So from the time Eleanor left until about 11:00 p.m. on the night of the murder, James Mills has a pretty confirmed airtight alibi. from 11 to 12, we don't know where he is.

42:00

But the police are kind of like, I don't think he's responsible. So, he also tells the police that he eventually confesses that he did know about the affair. And he tells the police that the next morning after Eleanor had not come home, so the morning of September 15th, he went to work as usual at the church and he ran into Francis, Edward's wife, at the church. Francis makes a comment that the Reverend Edward never came home last night, which prompts James to make a joke. Perhaps they ran off and eloped. But Francis responds, "God knows. I think they're dead and can't come home." Oh my god. So the police go to talk to Francis Hall. Francis tells the police that she believes robbery was the motive of the murder. [sighs and gasps] Her husband's watch was missing and usually he carries a lot of cash on him but none were there was like cents found in his pocket and she too claimed to have an alibi. She

43:00

was playing solitaire a game for one. A game for one. She is also the one with the super rich family. So she has people that work for her.

Yep.

And will cover for her. Damn. I didn't think it was her.

Yeah. At first I was like, "Okay, the only two suspects have to be the spouses." Mhm. And I was just thinking about like the anger you would have. I just thought most of your anger would be towards your own spouse. Like yes, you'd be you'd hate the other person because you'd blame them too for like breaking up your marriage.

Yeah.

But like in the act of like violence, I would assume a lot of the anger would go towards the person that you were closest to,

right? Cuz that's like a lot of crimes of passion,

right? Yeah. Yeah, but I guess you're more comfortable or some people might be more comfortable being more violent towards people they don't actually really know and it's almost like a mercy kill of the people

that they do love.

Yeah.

Oh [ __ ]

Okay. I think we can all agree James is not responsible.

44:00

Yeah.

Our suspicions are planted now on Francis,

which you know what I'm glad about because then the kids don't have to lose their dad, too.

True. So Francis claims that after Edward left around 8:00 p.m. she played solitire for 2 hours uninterrupted by herself, but that's an alibi. Uninterrupted. At around 1000 p.m., her 50-year-old brother Willie, who lived with him, came out of his room to say good night, and then she went to bed. She woke up sometime, she claimed she woke up sometime in the middle of the night and saw her husband wasn't home. So, at around 2:30 a.m., she wakes up her brother Willie, and they go to the church to look for Edward. Why are they up so late at night? Mhm. The church was dark, so they walk past the mills house, it's also dark. And they return home. The next morning, Francis calls the police. Was walking past the mills house like a normal path to go, I wonder?

I don't know. Or did they purposefully do it to say also like, "Oh, well, we also happened to walk there to like also

45:00

give an alibi for

maybe or to say like his house was dark. Maybe he wasn't home." You know, I don't know.

Anyway, the next morning she calls the police and asks if they've heard any reports and there are no reports of Edward at all. A maid at the hall home does confirm France's alibi and she says that she saw Francis playing solitire. a maid.

H.

So now police are like, I guess her alibi is good, too.

Yeah.

And even if they have confusion, they have to start looking at other suspects.

But a maid can easily be paid off by an ultra rich family.

Uhhuh. Hold on to that. [laughter]

Okay. Or threatened, not even paid off, just threatened.

Yep. Just keep that in mind. So police have no other choice. Now they start widening their web and they're like, who else could be suspects? Their next lead suspects are the brothers of Francis Hall, Henry Stevens and Willie Stevens. These two were fiercely protective of their sister. And remember, the affair

46:00

between Edward and Elellanor wasn't exactly secretive. So, the police theorized that maybe Francis's brothers knew of the affair and planned to take matters in their own hands. Or perhaps Francis asked them to take matters into their own hands.

The actual logistics are uncertain, but they think that there's motive there. I think they ended up having alibis. Like one of the brothers said that he was fishing with like the mayor of another town, which also keep in mind they are so well connected. So they get to get away with things. Then the Klux Clan was also considered a potential suspect because during this time,

so these people are white,

right? But so during this time they were picking up in the area and beyond their racial crusade that they were doing, they were also known to target people who they considered morally bankrupt. So would they have attacked especially the reverend

who's having an affair?

Yeah.

Who's literally not preaching what or

Yeah.

doing what he practicing what he preaches. Yeah. There we go.

But that was kind of like an unlikely suspect but they were like let's throw

47:00

it out there. And then they threw out this idea and like theory. Apparently there was like a rumor of these two Italian men who came through town with their guns like showing off the guns that they had. So they hate Italians. New Jersey hates Italians. [laughter] What? um they hated these two Italians, but then there was just like that was just thrown out, right? It's a rumor. But there were a couple of other suspects, even including the two lovers who had found the bodies. Like at some point, someone connected to them gets arrested. It's damn

drama. And I am skating over some of these details because this is such a big case, but I'm sharing the most like pertinent ones. So nearly two weeks go by without a break in the case. Grand juries are convened. the case is transferred between police departments because the police are theorizing that the bodies were killed somewhere else and then moved to beneath the crab apple tree which would change like the districts or counties that were involved.

Both victims Edward Hall and Ellaner Mills were buried and justice was no longer or no closer to being served. I

48:00

think at some point the bodies were disinterred and examined again and they saw that Eleanor's esophagus had been slit almost like she had been like screaming and to silence her they did that.

Jeez.

Yeah. And by this time the case had become absolutely sensational. It was such a high-profile case with high-profile people involved in the media were eating it up, which I think felt very Gatsbyes, which is why some people are like, "Oh, F. Scott Fitzgerald, he was reading this story." It naturally inspired his novel. Multiple people were arrested, ultimately never panning out. So things were very, very bleak. But then a witness came forward. Someone who had seen everything. [sighs] A woman the papers deemed the pig woman, better known as Jane Gibson,

the Pig Woman

which how brave of her to come forward,

right? But keep in mind, the papers immediately call her like headlines say

49:00

the pig woman. Who's going to take that seriously? If papers and media is calling this woman the pig woman,

the pig woman,

they're not giving credibility to her at all.

Right. But also like I'm I'm fearful of her because of the money involved with the family who potentially murdered. I mean the family probably had media connections and was able to spin the story the way they wanted.

True.

And it worked. So Jane Gibson lived with her son William in a converted barn near Dusi's Lane. She ran a pig farm. And for the days leading up to the Hallmills murder, Jane Gibson had been dealing with thieves who kept sneaking onto her property and stealing crops. So, for like the couple of days leading up to this murder, Jane had like decided to take matters into her own hands. Remember the urban legend where it was this pig farmer who was pissed at teens coming to her property.

So, Jane Gibson decides to like basically sit at her window late at night to try to catch the thieves in the act.

So, you can see how it inspired that version.

Oh, okay. So, she had reason for staying

50:00

up and

peeking out the window.

Stay up late at night. She's literally on the property where this happened. So, she is sitting up at night now on the evening of September 14th, 1922. That's exactly what she's doing. She's sitting by her window waiting, hoping to catch these thieves in the act. It's not clear what she initially told the police versus what she shared with news reporters, but in summary, this is like the gist of what she witnessed. At around 900 p.m., Jane's dogs began barking. So, she is like, "I'm going to catch the thieves." My dogs are warning me in the field now. So, she's excited. She looks to the window and sees a man in the cornfield and she mounts her mule named Jenny and she starts riding Jenny towards the man in the field. She's going to like cost and face the presumed thief. But as she approaches, still not close enough for them to see her, she realizes it's not just one man standing in the field, but there are several people standing there. And I'm like glad

51:00

that she was riding Jenny because if they know that they're by a farm and they hear animals, they're probably not thinking anything of it. They're not thinking to go look.

There's not random footsteps,

right? Like, thank God they didn't see her.

She then hears a woman yelling, "Don't don't." with absolute terror in her voice. So immediately Jane's like, "Oh, wait. These aren't the thieves. Like something is wrong. Something is going on." And so she stops Jenny and she tries to stay quiet in the field and watches. She then counts four figures that she can see near the crab tree. And she claims that she hears another woman's voice ask very different than the woman who was crying out, "Don't asking,"How do you explain these notes?" What she heard next was terrifying. A gunshot and a figure slumped to the ground accompanied with a woman shouting. And according to her, it sounded like the voice said Henry, which we'll get to in a minute.

Okay. Just right now with what you've

52:00

painted or what Pig Lady has painted, my theory is they went she went with her brothers.

Mhm.

To confront them. There wasn't the intention to murder them yet, but then her own husband maybe tried to lunge forward for the letters or to to do something in response because he's like caught red-handed. His life is flashing before his eyes. He's in total panic mode. He does something and they just immediately shoot him once.

Why go out there with guns though if they're not intending to murder?

Well, because you never know what's going to happen.

What lovers are going to do?

Yeah,

it's the 19.

Maybe she didn't go with guns, so maybe her hothead brothers did.

Sure. So then,

but then the overkill part, it's like, well, then why would you do that part? Okay, [snorts] I'll say

you're pretty at least what I believe.

Yeah. Soon after, she witnesses a figure that looks female running away, but then the other figures catch this woman and drag her back to the crab tree before

53:00

Jane hears three more gunshots.

So maybe the overkill is because she was trying to run away.

Yeah.

Jane returned home terrified and unsure of what to do. But then she like around 1:00 a.m. realizes that she lost her moccasin. So she decides to like go back in the field to find her other moccasin. You couldn't wait till morning. But now it's around 1:00 a.m. and she sees or hears a woman crying at the crab tree and she claimed the figure appeared to be a big lady with white hair. Jane claims that she tried to tell the police this story, but they paid her no mind because, and this is why I do feel bad for Jane and the pig woman. Not only is she now being called the pig woman because she owns a pig farm, but Jane was prior to this, she's a poor pig farmer,

and she had long been seen as an outcast. like kind of mocked around town. She lived in isolation. She rode a freaking mule, which I think is badass, but people made fun of her for doing. She was not the type of person accepted

54:00

by society. So much so that reporters took to calling her the pig woman. She So, if that doesn't tell you right away of how people felt about her and then therefore her testimony and her eyewitness story,

I don't know what else does. But Jane Gibson stuck to her story. She claimed the people she saw that night were Francis Hall, her two brothers, Henry and Willie Stevens, and their cousin Henry Carpenter. Remember, she heard a woman call out the name Henry.

Mhm.

So maybe But wasn't one of her brothers named Henry, too?

No. Willie and Oh, yeah. You're right. Willie, Henry, and Hen Henry. You're right.

Two Henry's.

Two Henry's.

So maybe you're right. Maybe they weren't going out there to to murder, but when something happened,

because the Henry was after the first shot.

Yeah. So, it's like, what the [ __ ] are you doing?

Yeah. So, you would think her story, her literally being a witness to the crime would break thisa case wide open. It'd [clears throat] be the nail in the coffin. What other phrases can you use?

55:00

But no, a grand jury basically decided, nah, there's no case.

How much money did they get for saying that?

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a cover up or investigation gone wrong?

little evidence because the crime scene was badly contaminated and the only real witness is a outcast of society. The pig woman is accusing four people from one of the most prominent and wealthy families in town. Who do you think society and police are going to side with?

Yeah. Who's bankrolling the police? Who's got them in their pocket? Well, I guess they can't make her go missing or kill her because then it would be very obvious that they actually did do it.

57:00

They didn't have to because society already thought of her as odd.

Yeah.

She's not like this like wellrespected woman who's coming forward with a story and people are believing her immediately people are writing her off.

Yeah.

For four whole years this case remains open going cold. Although to me obvious who did it but four years later in 1926 an arrest and trial finally happened. And the reason why is absolutely bananas because a man who was divorcing his wife in 1926 spilled her secrets in the divorce proceedings. So you remember that woman, the maid who saw Francis playing solitire?

Well, on July 3rd, 1926, her husband Arthur Ezreal and her were getting divorced. So it's Louise Gist had been the maid for Francis Hall

and Arthur and her are getting divorced.

And this is just a couple years later. 4 years later. 4 years later, she was working for the family back in 1922 and had confirmed Francis Hall's alibi,

58:00

which is basically the reason that the juries have been saying there's no evidence to arrest her because she has an alibi with a witness. But the truth, as Arthur would tell it in his divorce proceedings, is that Louise lied and was actually involved in the murder plot. According to Arthur, Louise had gotten word that Edward and Elellanor back in 1922 were planning to elope. So she told Francis Mills, her employer, what she heard and Francis along with her brothers came up with a plan to murder the two.

Oh, so they did go out with the

according to the husband of an ex-me.

Louise apparently even drove with everyone to the murder. So Louise was in the car,

which still makes me feel like it wasn't like they weren't going with the intent to murder. It was like it's going to be this intense confrontation in the act. Louise was paid $5,000 to keep quiet and

a lot of money in the 20s,

a [ __ ] ton of money. And all of this was kept quiet until like I imagine Arthur

59:00

knew of this this entire time and he must have been so excited to divorce her. He has no reason to make this up as a lie.

He is divorcing her and in his divorce proceedings goes, "She's a bad woman and a bad person. She was involved in a murder and outs her." So immediately this is picked up by the news and just like that the sensational murder of this case was back in the world back on front pages. It is painted everywhere. So finally in July of 1926 the case is reopened or reinvigorated by the police and a new investigator is in charge. When this new investigator goes to look at the evidence almost all of it is missing.

Corruption. Corruption.

Corruption.

Yep.

Gh man. Finally, Francis Hall, her two brothers, Henry and Willie Stevens, and their cousin Henry Carpenter are all arrested. I think they had, again, I'm not telling you all the logistics here, they had finagled away so that it was like two trials where Francis, Henry,

1:00:00

and Willie Stevens were all being tried together, and then Henry Carpenter was being tried separately.

As expected, the trial becomes a major media sensation. It is so high-profile that their main witness, Jane Gibson, the pig woman, as she's continued to be called and belittled in the news, is truly taken to a safe place out of town to protect her.

But it's also crazy because by this time in 1926, sadly, Jane Gibson is dying of cancer.

Oh.

And like she is on death's doorstep.

Yeah.

She is so close to death and in such bad shape that she is literally brought into court in a bed. Oh my gosh.

And there are photos of it.

That's so wrong.

It is, but it's also like another part of this case that feels fictional

because it's like

I can't imagine that happening today,

right?

Like go get a tape recorder, have the cross-examination happen there, play it back in court.

Yeah. And I really wish I could say that

1:01:00

justice was served. But no, by the end of the trial, which felt fictional, every single one of them was acquitted. Not a single person was found guilty,

which is so crazy

because they probably paid everyone off,

right? Exactly. That's exactly it.

Yeah.

Lack of evidence is really just missing evidence.

Not only that, people are claiming Jane Gibson is a crazy lady. They start saying not only was she already painted as this crazy lady, but she has cancer. So people are like her memory is bad because of the cancer like she's not reliable anymore and her story keeps changing which was somewhat true because over time her story started to take on pieces of like what had been written in the news too.

Yeah. I mean that's normal with eyewitness testimony. It's not really the most reliable. You have to kind of like rely on what happened in the beginning.

Yeah.

Although who was the lady that was weeping at 1:00 a.m. The older

lady Francis Hall. She was an older She was an older woman with white hair

1:02:00

and I think she came back to the crime scene and I think like cried to mourn her husband.

Oh, I didn't realize that they were older.

Yeah, Edward was younger than Francis. So Francis was older. But not only is Jane just completely mocked, but witnesses are going missing. People were paid off. And yet again, let me remind you at the center of this case, a center of all of this is a family with so much power, so much money, and ultimately influence.

So scary. Like I would not want to say anything.

No. All of which led to them getting away with murder. Literally. I believe they are guilty. Like I can say that with such certainty even though officially they've never been found guilty in a court of law. So

aftermath & hauntings that live on

unfortunately this makes the case technically an unsolved murder. And there are a lot more details about the case that I kind of skated over and you can totally read about them in books or online. But all that came from this case was tragedy and a clear message that if you have enough power or money, you can literally get away with murder. Damn. And what else came from this tragedy was

1:03:00

an urban legend. The birth of pig lady wrote. Jane Gibson was made a mockery of. She truly became and was called the pig woman. That people people knew the pig woman. They had no idea of her real name.

That's how much the pigwoman was used in the news.

She stopped being a real person in the public eye. She became a character. So long after the acquitt, people would speak of the pig woman roaming her farm, haunting de rooies lane, wandering the roads, and they would spew lies. So you can see how these rumors would then like spread throughout New Jersey and turn into the urban legend cuz adding like the pig woman with the horrors of Paul Mills murder,

right?

And like all the different elements,

you can see how the urban legend was born.

Yes.

It's wild,

man. So yes, all these stories throughout New Jersey and other towns, children grew up hearing that isolated country roads with farmland was home to the horrifying pig lady. And unofficially, locals started calling those roads pig lady road, which

1:04:00

honestly the fact that like it's like, oh, you have to annoy the pig lady to get her to come out. It's like, is she being annoyed or is she hearing a ruckus and her spirit is coming to investigate and be witness again?

Right. In addition, locals to New Brunswick do say that the site of the murder and the crime scene where Reverend Edward Hall and Eleanor Mills were found is haunted, that the air feels different, that there are cold spots, that people hear haunting cries or even see apparitions. Thankfully, and probably also a combination of the fact that when you search this case, it was so sensational and big, the haunting parts

are more just like this like added dramatic detail. I don't necessarily think the hauntings are that common. I hope that they're not,

but I wouldn't be surprised if that land does hold memory.

Yeah,

it is sad that this story and real life true crime inspired F. Scott Fitzgerald's novel, The Great Gatsby. The scandal of infidelity, the class divide, social hypocrisy, and gruesome

1:05:00

betrayal all shaped the like undercurrents of The Great Gatsby. Damn, that is a wild backstory to like the lore of a crypted.

Isn't it crazy?

The pig lady in New Jersey.

Yeah.

[ __ ] I had a lot of fun researching this one.

Yeah. This is It just So, this is like more proof when people are like, "Are you ever going to run out of stories?" It's like, no. How do we never like There are some big cases that we still have never covered or heard of.

Oh, yeah.

That's crazy.

I know. It's bananas. So, did you find this when you were flipping through your old Weird New Jersey book? Oh, I love that.

Yeah.

So, do you have it up here?

It's on my bed right now, but I have so many weird New Jersey stories for future episodes now.

Yeah, that's great.

Yes, I have been inspired.

listener story

Okay, I picked a story from New Jersey. [laughter] Dear Karen and Sabrina, my name is Alana and I live in the Philly suburbs. Uh, I was like, wait a second, where's the New Jersey part? I knew there was. Okay. I love your podcast. My mom and I listen

1:06:00

as we cook and clean. And what I do love about this is she CCed her mom and her mom had followed up and was like, "I just wanted to chime in, say my daughter and I are huge fans of the podcast. We've been listening for like weeks straight."

What's her mom's name?

Uh Diane. So shout out to Diane. And sent pictures of them in Salem together.

Which we won't show online cuz privacy cuz uh children.

Cute. Oh my god. Love,

right? Isn't this so sweet? I love this. Mom, daughter, are duo. Alana and Diane, we love you. Yeah. And your pictures are great, but we won't put them we won't put them on the episode.

Yeah.

Okay. My name is Alana. I live in the Philly suburbs. I love you podcast. My mom and I listen as we cook and clean. We're only on episode 17 currently. And this was back in March of 2024. So, I hope that they're a little further.

They just keep listening to episode 17.

I'm listening to you as we speak. I'm only 10 years old, but I recently started to love spooky things. And I have a story from about a year ago that I would like to share with you.

Okay. My uncle lives in a house in the New Jersey Pine Barons. [sighs and gasps] So, of course, my mom brings up the New

1:07:00

Jersey Devil sometimes.

Yes. Home to the New Jersey Devil and home to the mafia dumping ground.

Oh, yeah. Back then, I hated scary things. Back then, a year ago. But once you hit 10, you're brave.

A long time.

Back then, I hated scary things and I got really scared. I was jumpy the whole way there, which was about a 3-hour drive away. I went to sleep as soon as we got there because by the time we got there, it was so dark in my uncle's backyard. is a forest and I was really scared. A the next morning I wasn't so scared and I kind of forgot about it all. We went out to do some shopping and do some fun stuff until it got dark. When it got dark, we went to our car and my mom turned on her navigation system and we started to drive. All of a sudden, the navigation system rerouted and told us to go down this access road.

Nope.

That goes straight through a cemetery.

Why did it all of a sudden reroute?

Right. I feel like it's taking you to the 11 mile road.

Seriously, so creepy. And like just the amount of like lost time people have in the Pine Barons, like just getting trapped.

1:08:00

No cars were in front of us. No cars were behind us. So, it wasn't trying to help us avoid traffic, but it definitely wanted to reroute us and drive us into the cemetery. I don't know if ghosts were trying to get us or maybe the Jersey Devil hacked our navigation system, but I got really scared and I started to cry and tell my mom I just wanted to go home. It was 11 at night, so she refused. We had to go back to my uncle's house.

We're not driving 3 hours.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I just watched my iPad until I eventually fell asleep. When we got back home, my mom researched that cemetery and found out that some of the pilgrims from the Mayflower were actually buried there.

Wow.

The cemetery is very old and part of the Cold Spring Presbyterian Church and was built in the 1700s. I will never forget how horrified I felt that night. I hope this never happens again, but I do have to go back in the summer. Keep feeling spooky. You're a fan. Alana.

Alana. We need to know what happened in the summer.

I know.

What's the update?

Maybe.

Well, especially now that Alana's like into it all.

Yeah. And I don't know what time of year

1:09:00

this was either when they went last time cuz she had sent it in March of 2024, but it was about the year before.

So, I don't know if like summertime's less spooky, if this also happened during summertime.

I think the Pine Barons are spooky year round.

Yeah.

Oh, how creepy though. It's like late at night and you're it's like

I know

reroute shorter route through the cemetery

through this access road

opposed to the main road where no cars are driving and there's no traffic and no accidents

taking me deep into like the woods.

It's scary.

Hell no.

Anytime [clears throat] you're in like that type of landscape and GPS reroutes you, I don't trust it.

No.

I'm like something is trying to trick me.

Yeah. Well, Alana titled it possessed GPS,

which Yeah, it definitely was. We're New Jersey.

We love you.

Keep it weird.

It's a part of my chemical makeup.

I was born there.

This is why you are the way you are.

It is.

Maybe it explains me a little bit, too, cuz Vermont's little slogan is like, "Keep Vermont weird."

Yeah.

Where the weirdos live.

Yeah.

The Northeast. [laughter]

1:10:00

Well, we love you all and we especially I This episode is dedicated to all you weirdo New Jerseyians. weird New Jerseyians. And if you have any paranormal encounter, whether it's from Weird New Jersey or literally anywhere or from anyone, please email it to us at two girls podcast@gmail.com. We have Patreon where you can get episodes one week early and adree plus bonus content plus campfire stories where you join us live to tell us your ghost stories, plus witch class, plus book club. I'm losing my ability to speak because there's so much over there, but [clears throat] yeah, it's a lot of fun. And if you just want access to only the ad free episodes one week early, you can also subscribe on Apple Podcast to get that one week early.

Yep. We love you all.

Shout out to Jamie and Emma. We love you too. Thanks for being a part of our team and we will see you on the other side.

Very spooky.