HAUNTED APPALACHIA MOUNTAINS | Cherokee Legend of The Nvnehi People (Ep 356)

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One minute you're looking at a bare rock face, and the next minute the veil drops and you are now seeing a bustling village. What is time and space? The topic that I'm going to discuss today, they are protectors of the Cherokee, the Nunnehi, the people who live forever. And where do they choose to take up residence? Of course, in the Appalachian Mountains.

Very spooky. Hello. Hello. Welcome to Two Girls, One Ghost.

Two Girls, One Ghost. We are your ghostesses. That is Karin.

Hello. And I am Sabrina. Did you cut your hair again? No. Oh. Your bangs look different. They're growing out. They look good. How many times do I get bangs in my life

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and then immediately regret it? I think I'm on like the sixth or seventh time.

The curtain bang works really well for you. Thanks. I like it. Yeah, no, it's just growing out. I have a haircut appointment though in like a week. And I told you I'm going short. How short? Well, I mean like I guess half my hair cuz my hair is so long. Half your hair?

is like to my to the top of my head.

your hair? Yeah, like there. The top of where my breast flesh starts.

[laughter]

That's the perfect way to describe it. I hope that's what you tell your hairdresser. Anyway. [clears throat] Hey everyone.

an unimportant tangent. No, it was so important and vital that we all know that you're cutting your hair to your where your breast flesh begins.

[laughter]

That's the description I'm going to give to these people I've never met before at a salon I've never gone to before.

it for you. Uh what else is changing? I don't know. I've started doing that 5-minute daily journal. A child is playing

[gasps]

outside of the office.

No, and I were playing Play-Doh before this and making all of the stuffed animals dance. So yeah. [laughter]

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Aw damn. It was very nice. Aw. His little face when we had to close the door.

I know. Poor Noah.

curtains that like used to like it's a glass windows behind it.

French doors, so there is multiple panes of window that you can see him through.

it on his face. It's so sad.

[laughter]

It was so sad. Poor Noah. How's the journal? Oh, I forgot I told you.

[laughter]

You like you started a journal, so Play-Doh. Um it's good, but when you're depressed, finding three things to be like grateful for immediately when you wake up and like you just spent three days like bed rotting, it's kind of like, well, I didn't do anything the last three days. How? So it's like I'm grateful for cuddles with Leia. Comfortable sheets. Yeah.

Time to rest.

[laughter]

No, I did work out.

to turn your own body to avoid bed sores. The way my brain is capable of disassociating and leaving my vessel behind for days while

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watching Real Housewives of Salt Lake Oh, how was that? Traumatic. Are they all Mormon on that one, too? No. One of them was very Mormon, grew up Mormon. I'm only on season 2, so I don't know like the new people if there are any, but got divorced and like her husband left her basically. And when he left her, the the Mormon church like turned on her. Yeah. No, their rules are so strict.

It is so crazy. Um okay, before we get

Stranger Things thoughts

into this cuz there are like a few things in today's topic that did remind me slightly. I feel like I'm misleading people by even saying this, but like slightly of Stranger Things. Oh. Did you watch Stranger Things?

Yeah. What did you think? I I mean I thought it was a perfectly fine ending to the story. I think they played it safe.

And they were very precious about their characters. I think no matter what when

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you have a hit show like that, how do you end it? And people are going to be upset no matter what. I just felt like they they set up so many other twists and like there were no twists.

Exactly. I'm not mad about the last 45 minutes where they like showed the characters getting closure or like, you know, like that part is fine. I am upset about what happened before. And how quickly it all happened. It happened so quick. They spent I'm going to say they spent four and a half seasons cuz I feel like the first chapter of season 5 did good world building, too. And then after that they lost it. In my opinion. As the skilled writer that I am, I [laughter] feel like so dumb critiquing it, but

whole TikTok was full of conspiracies and like leading up to New Year's Eve when the episode came out, I was just like so consumed with all these theories that I was buying in. I was like, oh my god, like this has to happen. And I think I just was like surprised that none of the twists existed. But I will

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say

It was like they were using the 18-month time jump to just like not explain anything. Yeah. I was just frustrated cuz it was it was four and a half seasons of like excellent world building where there were so many clues where like there were so many

think season 4 went off the rails a bit.

Really? Yeah, with like the Russia storyline and like oh yeah, that was what's happening.

It was still really good. I liked it still. Uh But yeah, no, I feel like they were just and I feel like they did a good job of like callbacks really cuz you know, something would happen and you're like, oh my gosh, that explains what happened like a season ago or like six episodes ago or whatever. And I feel like they ignored all of the rules of the worlds that they had created and that is what frustrates me. Like for example, to be very nitpicky, they harped on how long it would take all of the group to climb the tower when the universe was

it in like seconds. Well, no, but like [laughter] it in their world you can feel the anxiety of like Max and the the candy lady from the hospital. I can't remember her name. But like you can feel their anxiety where they're like, oh my

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god, are they there yet? Are they there yet? And it's like, well, it's a long tower to climb. So they're harping on how long it takes and like pretending it's real world time. Yet then when they go to the Mind Flayer and Vecna to like try to defeat it, they're like, get on top of that 500-ft cliff. And then they just magically are on top of it within seconds. Well, my okay, my qualm was with how quickly, and sorry, there are a couple spoilers here, but like when Eleven, Max, and what's her name? Robin? No, Kaya or Oh, her sister. Holly. Holly, who I for sure thought was going to be bad, but when they are in like Vecna's or Henry's like memories, how quickly they're able to get to the house. Yes. That felt way too quick. Well, and also when Eleven needed to go save Will and she just went in and grabbed him. Right. Anyway, I feel [laughter] like I as a series I enjoyed it and I applaud the

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Duffer brothers for it and I'm excited for next week's episode cuz it's also very, very Stranger Things related. Oh, yes.

But I have a pivot. Just like someone asked if we would do this and I kind of love the idea. There is a show called Heated Rivalry. Oh, yeah. I don't know what it's about because I just see clips of the There's two guys in it like wetting their t-shirts.

The the boy aquarium. Hockey. Ice hockey. Oh, it's about hockey? It's about ice hockey and then it's like two lovers on like rival teams.

[gasps]

Did they get this idea from me because every time [laughter] I go to a hockey game I yell, "Kiss, kiss, kiss." when they fight.

You're the only one who does that. Kiss, kiss. But Yeah, so if someone was like, you and Karin should watch and do a like a talk about every episode after watching. And I was like, I feel like that would be very fun for you and Oh my gosh, that is really fun. And we can watch like one episode a

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week. Boy aquarium. We love the boy aquarium.

aquarium. And all their missing teeth. Yeah. I went to a Bruins game like a month ago and I grew up in New Jersey, so my family was like hardcore Yankees fans. Mhm. And like Giants fans, but like I've never had like a ice hockey team. So the Bruins is like the only Boston team I really feel like I can

to. I can support.

The Bruins is the best team. So I'm a Bruins fan. Yay. Yay. Sports. Anyhoo. Anyhoo, the boy aquarium, maybe we'll maybe we'll watch and maybe we'll talk about it. Who knows? The only the future can tell.

Yeah.

I was like, what is this like? Two sexy boys flirting on TV. I didn't understand what it was. My sister was like, the sexy ones are hot. Oh, wow. Yeah. So. Who wants to watch with us? New show that's very different from what we normally talk about. Very. [laughter]

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Which is the paranormal. Yes. And I have Okay, so this was

the people who live forever

actually the topic that I'm going to discuss today. Our listener Kaylee had recommended this on Encounters 284. Okay. So shout out to Kaylee cuz I don't think I ever would have heard of this otherwise.

I feel like we should uh have the Never mind. I'm going on on a side tangent. Have what? Well, I was just thinking about Brittany Broski's the gavel on her podcast when she's like, and we whatever she says and then she Oh, the light change. We need some sing signal that it's time for the story. Our disco ball comes down.

dims. Oh, our disco [laughter] ball. Different vibes again. Doesn't quite match. Doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. Explain anything to us. Anyway. Imagine you're hiking deep in the Southern Appalachia Mountains. You've been walking for hours and the air is thick. There's a specific blue haze settling over the ridges that gave these mountains their name, the Blue Ridge

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Mountains. In case you didn't understand that. You're alone, or at least you think you're alone. Your community has taught you to always be vigilant in these mountains, for there are many creatures who lurk nearby. Yet despite these warnings, something strange happens. You hear music, drums, laughter, the rhythmic stomp of a dance. It seems like maybe there's a party going on just over the next ridge. But you know this area and there's no town nearby, there's no campground, there's nothing over that ridge, just miles of ancient and unforgiving wilderness. So, you know that you should ignore it. You know that you should turn back, but for some reason you find yourself walking towards the sound. Don't do it. The music is getting louder, the laughter [clears throat] joyous. It's inviting. But the closer you get, the sound now seems to be getting further away. Seems like the music is now coming from

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behind you, maybe from the valley below you. So, what's going on? Your family and your neighbors have told you to never sing in the woods, never whistle in the woods. Walk out calmly, eyes ahead. If you encounter anything strange, ignore it. And this would certainly qualify as strange, right? Now, if you were a Cherokee hunter 200 years ago, you would know exactly what you were encountering. You would know to stop, to bow your head, to back away slowly, because you have just stumbled upon the Nanehi, the people who live forever. So, shout out to Kaylee who recommended the Nanehi. That story that you just painted, like the narrative of, reminds me I think it was the episode like 313 or something like that. I don't know why I remember that number, but when we did the three-part Appalachia series, when I talked about the devil in Appalachia, Oh, yeah.

there was like one segment where the devil leads these parties. Mhm. And is like dancing. It was at the same part

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where the devil also like sit in the center of a That was the trampling ground.

Oh, okay. But yeah, he rocks in his rocking chair. Just thinking his thinking circle. What three things am I grateful for today?

[laughter]

Oh, Curious five-minute daily affirmation journal. Gosh damn, I'm depressed, too. I'm grateful for those rocking chairs. Okay, so these are people who live forever. They're immortal beings, they're very powerful, and where do they choose to take up residence? Of course, in the Appalachian Mountains. I would do the same. Mhm. Of course they live forever in Appalachia.

Right. There's so much space to explore. So much. It is kind of It gets a little depressing though, cuz you know, modern day cities have definitely interfered with where they like to spend time. That's true, but they're still partying. They're having a good time. They're having a great time. You know when

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Appalachia's oldest residents

And okay, so I will say right up front like these these creatures, beings, I don't really know what to call them. They remind me so much of fae, but they're not. Okay, I guess. So, these things are kind of like they're not ghosts, they're not demons, they're not cryptids, they kind of like live in this other sort of category. They like break categories. In the Cherokee tradition, the Nanehi are not spirits in the way that we typically think of them. They're not dead people, they're more like parallel to humanity. So, it's basically like people with special powers who are also immortal, invisible, incredibly powerful. So, that's why they remind me of fae, cuz it's like they present as people, they do all the same things as people, they sleep, they eat, but all of their versions of that are like special to them. Okay. They operate like slightly differently. Okay. Kind of reminiscent to like a vampire in a way. Well, I was

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just thinking of Tinkerbell and Neverland. [laughter] Very different. That's how you're thinking about fairies? I either think of Tinkerbell or True Blood. Isn't True Blood vampires? And fairies.

[sighs and gasps]

Oh, I've never seen it. Yeah, the main character, Sookie. Oh, damn. She's a fae. Okay, well, it is more like Okay, you're thinking of like the TV and I'm thinking of like the fantasy book version. Sorry. We're thinking of two different like categories. The Nanehi people live in the mountains. They also live under the rivers. The Cherokee translation of Nanehi literally means the people who live everywhere. So, it's often translated to

Magical.

Very magical. It's often translated to people who live forever, which like both things are true. They're immortal beings, so they do live forever, but they also can live anywhere. So, they're not bound by space, they're not bound by physics. They can basically be here, there, everywhere, vibrating just outside of our perception. It's like magical portals. They could be right

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here. They could be right here. They could be under the rock that's beneath us, which is why this room is so cold, cuz there's no insulation. So, it is interesting cuz like a lot of where there's a lot of the stories about like finding their homes is like in the center of a mountain or underneath the riverbed. Like a door, like a portal will open up. And they'll just like go in.

Which those are both very energetic places. Mhm. Which makes sense. And this topic is interesting because if these people can live anywhere and they also live forever, obviously like they're sharing space now with like modern day people. Like what you're saying, like they could be right here. Although they're not.

[laughter]

Cuz they seem to be more interested in like specific regions. Yeah, I can't imagine they'd be interested in us. No. They're They're near the windy boys, near the mood-eyed people.

Mockers.

Yeah, that's the the southern Appalachia region. They once fought a war for the Cherokee people using invisibility. And they also might have something to do

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with or know what is happening to all of the missing people who vanish along the Great Smoky Mountains and the Appalachian [clears throat] Trail. Next episode might also answer what's happening to all those missing people.

[laughter]

Oh my gosh. [clears throat] Is this our like pivot into true crime or we're like conspiracy theorists that are also just trying to [laughter] find all the missing people in the woods?

theorists. So, the Nanehi people, if you encounter them, they are human-sized. They look exactly like us, you cannot tell a difference between you and that Nanehi person. Although I will say it seems like they choose to show themselves as like traditional Cherokee people. Okay.

like they're part of a Cherokee tribe or like dressed as Cherokee did 200 years ago. I know they never die, but do they never age? Like are they like vampires where they appear eternal at one age or can they alter their visual appearance? I don't know. Okay. Like my default is to say they appear one age as like one

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type of person forever, because there are examples of some people who have chosen to become part of them. Oh, you can become one? Yeah, that's why it's kind of like fae, vampire, yeah. Okay. And then when they have like gone back to visit family or or whatever or like been seen, they're seen exactly as they were before. But I don't know if that's cuz they're choosing to show themselves as the person who Right. was familiar with these humans before. Okay. I don't know their rules and how they work.

of the mystique, right? Is that we we outsiders don't know. We don't know. But in a very twilight sort of way, they don't sparkle,

[laughter]

they do become like the most regal and most handsome version of a person. Ooh, it's like when it's like that one part of your period menstrual cycle where you're like what is it called? You're glowing. When you're ovulating. Is it luteal phase? Is that it? I don't know.

know. There's one we talk about.

insane that we didn't learn about the

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different [clears throat] phases of our own menstrual cycles.

I know. It was literally just like, oh yeah, and then like you get your period. Right. Like why didn't I know that before weeks I'd be a huge [ __ ] Right. Or that every four weeks I'd be

that every week I have a different symptom because there's something new happening.

new. So, oh my gosh, wait, sorry, another side pivot.

What?

I saw on TikTok

What did you see?

[laughter]

But someone said that they went in for a Pap smear while they were on their period and their OB was like, oh, do you want me to just scoop it out for you? And that you can like scoop out the shedding and lining so it doesn't just like slowly trickle out over a few days. Like it can just be So, I didn't know you could scoop it out, but I've seen people who like their period comes out in one clump. Like there was a girl who thought she was literally having a miscarriage because she had the most insane pain ever. And then literally this like massive clump of blood came out of her. Wow.

And she literally like put it into a bag

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and brought it to the doctor and they're like, "Oh yeah, that's just your period. It just like came out in one clump." That's crazy. And she said it was the most insane pain. Like she basically like gave birth to her period. Cuz I was going to say, "Wait, I kind of like wish that that would happen." So it's just like a one-time Yeah, but I don't think it's enjoyable.

But if it hurts, yeah. Well, yeah, how bad does it hurt? Cuz it's like pain for 5 days or pain for I don't know.

Being a woman is like simultaneously so magical, but it's also so painful. Yeah. I assume that the Nanehi don't get periods either cuz they live forever and I don't know if they just turn people into them and that's how they create new ones. Or do they have Do they have menstrual cycles and they have babies? I don't know. I don't know. We'll have to call Renesmee and ask how it works in the vampire [laughter] world. Okay, so you know how I was saying that sometimes you'll be able to like catch glimpses of where they live or like the entrance to their homes, their communities. So the reports from many generations and from a

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lot of Cherokee like lore and tradition has said that they can transpose their reality onto ours. So 1 minute you're looking at a bare rock face and the next minute the veil drops and you are now seeing a bustling village with smoke rising, with fire, with children playing, with like women and men dancing. And it's confusing cuz you're like, "Am I witnessing like a new dimension or was this always there? And I'm being constantly shown a facade of something else." Which is also wild because if it's a facade and you're interacting with the facade. Mhm. But you're like simultaneously like walking through their village.

Yeah. What is time and space? I do not know.

I don't know. That's the part where like I We're going to skip it cuz we already talked about Stranger Things, but like I went on like a tangent in

[laughter]

this episode about like time and space and dimension and parallel universes.

until the next recording. Okay. Oh my god, I'm so excited. Can anyone guess what Sabrina's going to cover? Okay, and these people they're a good time. Like

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by all accounts you would not be scared when encountering them because there's music, there's dancing. They only show themselves when they want to show themselves. Mhm.

And there are so many stories of the Nanehi people choosing to show themselves specifically when someone might be in danger. So they're like trying to help others. And remember I mentioned before, too, like they once went to war for the Cherokee people, which I'll cover in a second. Interesting. So I mean it it is very similar to a lot of the Appalachia lore that we've talked about where they are protecting the land and also if you show up as a respectful human being and are in need of help they will help you. Yeah, just like Bigfoot.

[laughter]

How do you relate everything to Bigfoot? That is how. Be pure in the soul and Bigfoot will help you. [laughter] One tale spoke of four Nanehi women who went to a town called Natalee. The women

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were dancing with the young men in the town for hours and it was like the best time ever. These guys were like, "Oh my gosh, this is the most fun day of my life. I can't believe this. They're just like totally enchanted. These women are just the best." And once the women are like, "All right, like we've had enough fun. We're going to head home." The guys like, "Okay." And they're watching the women leave this like pub area or whatever they were at and start walking down the trail. And these guys are like, you know, they're They're not leaving you. So they're still watching. The women get right down to the river and just disappear. And the guys are like, "Oh my god, we were just dancing with Nanehi people." So this is interesting because it's like they love that. visit and like infiltrate Yeah. our community and we don't even know. They are It's just like the best person, the most engaging, delightful conversation. The best dance partner. Best night of your life. I would love to like embody that energy. Mhm. Just enjoy

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life Life of the party. in that way. Not necessarily like life of the party, but just like they just seem like they're enjoying They're enjoying life. Yeah. Well, god, I hope that they do cuz they live forever.

[laughter]

Yeah, you got it. You got to find enjoyment in there, right? Yeah, cuz I I personally, as life as I've experienced it, would never want to live forever. Yeah. And I don't say that in a depressing manner, but I just think life is full of challenges and like you have to find ways to make life worth living and boy is that hard some days. I think that as like a regular human being, I wouldn't want to live forever, but if I had certain powers, I might change my mind.

Yeah. You know.

Yeah. There was a show on I want to say it was Prime like 6 years ago, but it was about this like civilization where people kind of are able to live forever, but only like the elite and like very rich people. And of course they were the worst types of

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people and became like very Epstein-esque. Like because they were so rich and they had lived forever, they'd done everything and then so like they just did vile things. So sick. Yeah. Well, these are immortal beings that might uh be kinder. They're doing it the right way.

the right thing. And there have been many stories of Cherokee specifically in winter months where they're like separated from their group or they just get lost or they're suddenly, you know, finding themselves in a huge storm and they're disoriented and suddenly someone will appear to them and bring them into This is interesting. They kept calling them townhouses. Wow. When it when you talk about the community of the Nanehi, it's called a townhouse. I don't know if that was just like a weird translation that kept happening or Huh. if like that's just what they call their community. Yeah, so these Cherokee people who are lost in the woods will be brought to a townhouse and like kept and fed and made to feel better again and rest enough to be able to go home. I should correct myself. I said fed. What are they done?

If they're fed, they probably aren't

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going home. Very fae-like.

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Appalachia's oldest residents cont'd

But a lot of times it's not. Like the person has a choice. So like if the person is under the weather and like needs to have time to rest, they're I don't think they're going to be given this sort of like Nanehi/fae food. I said they're not fae, but they're so damn similar. Yeah. Well, also, I mean, who's to say that our interpretation of fae didn't come from the Nanehi How do you say it? The Nanehi? I think.

Nanehi people? Like I do think across so many different cultures there are similar entities and beings that we just call different things. Right. Yeah. Like who knows? This is just like the subsect of people

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who live in the Appalachia, immortal people. Yeah. So now I'm going to get into some of the more like well-known stories of actual interactions with the Nanehi. I really love that.

them come from Cherokee lore. I know, I like them, too. And for the most part they're like here for good. Yeah. They do good things, they help people, but that's not to say that they're not capable of murder. If you deserve it. Yes. So one of the well-known stories is about a man called Yuhula. Yuhula was out with his hunting party and he got separated from his group. So the classic beginning of a potential encounter with Nanehi.

Mhm. Despite desperate searches from his friends, they are not able to locate him. And he wasn't able to find his way home or find anyone from his group, either. So finally, after like hours of searching for their friend, the rest of the group returns home and they're like, "Something horrible must have happened to Yuhula." You know, like wildlife could have gotten him, maybe he fell, is injured, succumbed to the elements. Like they're assuming he's dead.

Yeah. And so they're literally entering their mourning period for him now. But

29:00

do you want to know what actually happened to Yuhula?

Yeah, I do. He was found lost in the woods wandering around aimlessly by the Nanehi who took them back to their home where he stayed for a long time. And because he stayed for a long time, he obviously needed to eat. And so he did. And he became immortal himself. That's how you become immortal? Like you just eat from the food that they eat? You eat from the food that they eat and you spend

enough time in their community. That feels like such an easy transition. Yeah. Okay.

Right? Like it does sound pretty nice. Yeah.

But then he started to miss his friends and his family and he's like, "Okay, I want to go back and visit. I need to like see everyone." So one night he left his magical home to return to his home village where he was reunited with his loved ones and his friends. And they're like, "Oh my god, you're alive. What happened to you? Why are you better looking all of a sudden?"

[laughter]

Ooh. That was a strong glow.

Look at that jaw bone. And they ask him to sit down and dine with them. And he's like, "Okay, I will

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definitely have dinner with you, but I can't eat your food anymore." They what? [clears throat]

And that's when he explains exactly what happened. He said that now that he's eaten the food of the Nunnehi people, he is one of them and he can no longer eat human food. And they're like, "Okay, we understand that. That's totally fine, but like you're back with us. We want you to stay here. Like you're back, we're reunited. Live with us once again." But he said he couldn't because living with them would mean death. Insinuating that if you spend enough time away from the Nunnehi and like their magical world, a Nunnehi is no longer immortal and they will just die. Okay, so I was wondering if they could die cuz just because they could live forever, same way as vampires. Like there's got to be a way that they do perish. Mhm. So it does sound like whatever their food source is, they are reliant on it. Right. Which what is what are they eating? It appears to look like normal food, but it's just magical, a magical version of it. Makes

31:00

me think of Plurbus. Oh, sick. We don't want to spoil that for you, but Plurbus is a really good It's so good. First season's already done, so you can binge it.

Mhm. So basically they can die. It's almost like being like a beached whale, I guess. Like

[laughter]

Like you're just like you're like you just got stuck and like you can't

Yeah.

[laughter]

Like you're in a prison that I wasn't expecting. Oh. I didn't even write that. That's just in my mind. I was like beached whale. Because I was also thinking, not to be like dark and morbid here, but like I was thinking about like if they would ever choose, like you were saying like you wouldn't ever want to live forever. Maybe some of them, despite how happy they appear and the dancing and everything, like could they be so missing the life that they had before? For some of them who like maybe started as humans I cuz I don't Again, I don't know how they were all created. Yeah. That they choose to beach themselves and spend the last the last few days

Well, then also how long can you live without the food? Right. Cuz it sounds

32:00

like in this story, I mean, they didn't give a specific timeline, but I don't think he stayed longer than like a day Okay. with everyone. So I'm not really sure. So Yuhula did return to go back with his fellow Nunnehi. And he did continue to visit from time to time, go and see his loved ones and the Cherokee. And there have been many stories over the years of when the Nunnehi people show up, I guess like someone who looks like the description of Yuhula being there. So it seems like he might still be living forever. Ooh. Wow. Though they definitely share some characteristics with the fae in terms of like how the world seems to operate, they are not as mischievous as fae is typically described to be. So they're not dangerous, they're not trying to lure, for the most part, lure anyone in um they're trying to live peacefully so long as you're on the right side of history. For the Nunnehi are also warriors for the Cherokee people. So

33:00

they are protectors of the Cherokee. And this reminded me a little bit of the night marchers that you covered in Hawaii because it's like they have so much pride and strength in how they can fight and what they fight for. And it's like if your like mind or soul or intentions aren't pure pure or aligned with what they believe, then in a very Avengers style saga, you will be

Nvnehi at war

slaughtered. Damn. Yeah. So let's adventure down to Franklin, North Carolina. Are we going to talk about a story where someone's slaughtered?

There's some slaughtering coming.

Okay. If you drive through Franklin today, there's modern businesses, a normal looking town, but then there's this massive ancient earthwork called the Nikwasi Mound. I hope I didn't butcher that.

It's like basically like a big hill. Mound.

[clears throat]

Okay. I don't know what they call it.

mound? Yeah. Oh, so okay. But they called it an earthwork, so that's why I Okay. I don't know. I'm just regurgitating some things that I read

34:00

about this.

I'm just curious. Okay. Let me Google this again just to make sure. Okay. Ancient earthworks are large scale human-made landscape features, mounds, walls, enclosures by some ancient cultures for ceremonial, burial, and defensive, and sometimes astronomical reasons. Okay. Okay, so that makes sense. So this mound has been here for at least a thousand years, so long before any of these businesses were created. And the Cherokee [snorts] maintained it. They also kept this sacred It was like their sacred fire burning there forever. So I don't really know exactly They Yeah, like literally, they kept it alive. And this was the spiritual heart of their like quote middle towns. So there were like multiple towns, I think, that were like all connected. Mhm. They weren't originally called towns, but like the Cherokee They're villages.

They're villages. And there were different burials of like different like warriors or like leaders or whatever in each of these spots, but like this was

35:00

the middle center meeting point. I'm going off of memory here, so I might be butchering some of it, but I think that this was like the central meeting point or like the most important point. So this was the a super large mound that was constructed by piling dirt on top of the grave of a very prominent chief or priest along with a bunch of sacred objects. So this was considered ground zero for the Nunnehi also. Their townhouse, like the community where the Nunnehi people live, was basically supposed to be underneath this mound as well. So it's like the Nunnehi had an access point. The Cherokee were like, "We're going to give you our most loved warrior and leader, our chief."

tied. Mhm. Which I I almost love that they're honoring someone so important to their tribe. Right. Like everyone is. It's also kind of like an important tie where it's like this person led us and protected us and you do the same. So channeling that spiritual energy. Yeah, now we like this

36:00

is a reminder that you also need to protect us. Maybe. Which is exactly what is about to happen. There's this flame that the Cherokee kept alive and always lit basically to honor the Nunnehi people. Mhm. There's a legend recorded by James Mooney, who was a 19th century ethnographer who studied Cherokee history and lore and rituals. And he wrote a book called Spirit Defenders of Nikwasi. So this is going to be about what happens at this mound. Long ago, there was a powerful enemy tribe from the south. Some say it was the Creeks, but other people say it was like some older group. This group had invaded the area. Mhm. They smashed through all of the outer defenses that the Cherokee had and they were marching on Nikwasi. The Cherokee warriors at Nikwasi, which is this area where the the mound is, were outnumbered. They were fighting hard, but they were being pushed back and they're exhausted. They're like retreating up the mound trying to

37:00

protect their sacred like burial spot and then also the entrance to the Nunnehi people. They're super injured, they're retreating, they're desperate, they're dying. And then suddenly a stranger appeared among them. He looked like a chief, but nobody recognized him. And he shouted something I imagine of the likes of, "Call off your men. Stand back. I will drive them away." "Call off your men." It's not like, "Hey, let's team up." It's just like, "I got this. Take a break." Bench yourself. Water, orange slices.

[laughter]

Fruit snacks. Yeah. Call your mom. The Cherokee chief, desperate and confused, ordered his men to pull back cuz he's like, "Okay, well, there's some other guy here and I don't know what to do and we're like all dying." And that is when it happened. The side of the Nikwasi Mound opened up like a giant door and out poured hundreds and

38:00

hundreds of warriors. But they were not just any warriors, these were warriors who hadn't been fighting, so they were fresh. They had no wounds, they were strong, they were invincible. The Nunnehi warriors charged the invaders and the slaughter began. Woah. But here's the really spooky part. So for the Cherokee watching, they were seeing the Nunnehi people. They were seeing these warriors fighting. But for the other group, the invading group, They saw nothing. They saw nothing. They were just being thrown and slaughtered and struck That's horrifying.

by an invisible force. They had no way to fight back. This really makes me want to reread the Iliad and the Odyssey. Like I just feel like there's so many battle scenes and like different entities that come out and fight, but damn. Right? Well, so how horrifying to just like not see your attacker. Well, don't go try to slaughter [laughter] someone else's home.

That's also a good point. So the enemy

39:00

tribe, obviously, were panicked and they fled. They were screaming that the very spirits of the land were fighting against them. And that's like literally true. That is pretty much exactly what's happening.

Yeah. The Nunnehi chased them off, ensured the town was safe, ensured the rest of the Cherokee people were safe, and then just as quickly as they appeared, they marched right back into the mound. The earth closed up behind them and that was that. So cool, cool, cool. Done. Damn. So that was a long time ago, right? But what if I told you something similar happened during the Civil War? I'd believe it. [snorts] Immediately. So federal troops were approaching the town of Franklin to capture it and burn it to the ground.

Oh, so same town. Mhm. Wow.

Same town, same mound.

Same mound. Yep. Earthwork? Same earthwork. So, we're in the Civil War and in the South there are towns that are getting burned to the ground, towns that are being attacked. It's a war, right?

Yeah. And so, Franklin is next on the list and the federal troops, they are looking through their field glasses and

40:00

see the hills around Nikwasi, the mound, swarmed with thousands of soldiers guarding the town. Just like the entire town is encircled by these guys that are just like standing there ready to fight. Very intimidated by the size and the force of what appeared to be there. The federal troops retreated basically saying, "Okay, we can skip this town. Now, let's move on to the next one." But, here's the strange thing is there were no Confederate troops there. So, there were actually no soldiers there at all. The town was undefended and actually most of the people in the town, the population was quite small because most of the people had already either fled or joined the army. So,

Sure. there were not that many people there, especially not that many warriors. Yet, there were thousands of men lined up around the town guarding it. That they saw. That they saw. So, the locals believe after hearing this that what these guys had seen were the Nunnehi people coming one last time to protect their home. The mound is still there. It has never

41:00

been excavated. It has never been destroyed.

We hope it is never.

Let them be. Well, the Cherokee have requested that it be left alone. So, let's listen to that.

Yeah. And there have been no more reports so far of the Nunnehi going to war for the Cherokee. Which also I appreciate. Like let them rest. Yeah. And also like Like let's stop fighting.

make reason for war.

Yeah.

[laughter]

Kumbaya everyone.

Right? Let's just party and drink and start fires.

Yeah, you. Let's just party and drink.

[laughter]

Naked and better at 8:00 8:00 at night.

like dance in the woods and drink naked with your girlfriends wine. Which is Yeah. Get naked with your girlfriends. I feel like I had to say witches after that cuz I was like, "Oh." I mean, you could also just You could also just do a naked thing with your

you want. Yeah. Watch heated Bible readings.

[laughter]

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missing people & time slips

Okay, so now I'm going to propose a theory. This was not in any of the articles that I read, but it was in the area of so many people disappearing in the woods. So, of course like I always think about the cave system and Bigfoot. Yeah. And things like that. Like mysterious disappearances. Often we can attribute them to people who are injured, people who are lost, people who might have taken a fall. Mhm. Yet, there are so many cases of people who do return under mysterious circumstances or where they're found makes absolutely zero sense.

they appear like 400 miles away. I mean, that's dramatic, but like still. Or like a 2-year-old has no dirt on their feet and is wearing a different fresh set of clothes

Yeah. and is found 5 hours later 7 miles away. Like how did you get there?

Having had to cross 10 riverbanks. Like something that is impossible. Yeah. So,

44:00

I'm going to tell you a story about a place called Pilot Mountain. If you've ever driven through North Carolina, there is a place called Pilot Mountain. It's [clears throat] described as weird.

[laughter]

Well, a solitary peak that kind of looks like a volcano

like everywhere in Appalachia is weird.

Yeah, it can be

Now, I'm going to really butcher this. The Cherokee call it Suwa telda. Okay. T S U W A apostrophe T E L apostrophe D A. Okay. Yeah, I butchered it. So, I wish we could phone a friend. I do appreciate you including what they call it though.

Yeah, I'm trying.

Yeah. But, I'm a fight girl.

[laughter]

It doesn't work for me. So, this is considered Pilot Mountain is considered one of the main townhouses of the Nunnehi. So, even though they can live wherever and live forever, they have their like favorite spots where they're Well, I'm also curious how many

45:00

different like neighborhoods they have or like you know, like I imagine there's not just like one group of them. Yeah. Or is it different little civilizations?

entire civilization, entire community is just one and it's just there certain access points where the energy is so palpable that they can expose Huh. where they live. But, for them they can like go between places with him like anywhere.

I don't know. I know it is it's fascinating. So, this is one of the main townhouses and the stories about this place often include time slips and interdimensional travel. There was this guy called, and I'm going to butcher this again, Suwenahi, which kind of ironically means like rich or affluent, though he was anything but. And he lived in the old town of Kanuga. I'm going to call him T because I don't want to try and butcher him. T, he was kind of kind of a scrub. He's kind of a lazy hunter. Kind of like, you know, everyone went out to do things and help the community and he just like never brought back any

46:00

meat. He was Maybe he was in the woods. Yeah, he yeah, he He needed some alone time.

There wasn't Real Housewives of Salt Lake City back then.

No, he didn't really know what was going on, I guess. So, his family was like, "Okay, we're so sick of you mooching off of everyone." And essentially they kicked him out and they said, "You can't come back until you have a deer." So, it was like, "You go into the woods all the time to hunt. You come back with nothing ever. Do something. Like go get a deer. Come back when you have a deer. It's not an impossible task." So, now I'm getting mad at him, too. Just do it. Like pull your weight, man. So, he's feeling really ashamed and he wanders off towards the mountains. And while he's wandering, he meets a stranger on the trail. And the stranger is very handsome, very well dressed, super friendly. Kiss. Kiss. Kiss.

[laughter]

And they both take their shirts off. Suddenly it starts raining.

47:00

This is now a sexy episode. [laughter] The stranger asks, "Why are you sad?" And T explains the situation and the stranger just smiles and says, "Well, why don't you come Now it does feel romantic. Why don't you come home with me?"

my room. [laughter] "My town is close. We have plenty of food. You actually have relatives there." Oh. Which like how is T being like, "Well, how do you know who I am and who I'm related to?" He doesn't ask questions though. Hm. Which seems appropriate for how he was described. The guy's like, "Come here, kid. I have candy and puppies." And T is like, "Okay, that sounds great. I'll go with you." So, the two of them walk together to Pilot Mountain. But, they don't stop at the top. They actually walk into a cave and as they're walking in the cave, the environment around them suddenly changes. And now they're not in a dark cave. They're in a wide bottom land is how it was described. It was open country. Mhm. The sun is shining.

very um Sarah J. Maas. It is. It's that

48:00

I think that's why I kept being like, "God, they remind me so much of Fey." Cuz one of the articles literally was like, "They are not fairies." Right. But, I'm like They can have similar attributes.

Yeah. Yeah. But, it just it definitely did feel like A Court of Thorns and Roses in a way.

I feel like also as humans we just desperately want to relate things to things that we do know. Mhm. So, we're making connections. Yeah. We like to find patterns. Which is why Stranger Things was so upsetting.

[laughter]

Some people really liked it. I don't mean to to poo-poo anyone. You know, I just feel like they told the story that they wanted to tell and who are we to tell them that that's not right. They created that for us. They gifted us a a show that for Yeah, but what was the point of building so much up to just forget about it? They just wanted a happy ending. I'm laissez-faire. Whatever. You're being kind as a fellow writer. I

49:00

have no skin in the game. So, I'm going to say I was upset. Okay. So, the sun is shining. There are fields of corn, rivers full of fish, hundreds of people and everyone looks so happy. It's like everyone's living in peace. I forgot what we were talking about.

[laughter]

Okay, well, T gets brought into Pilot Mountain by this guy who's like, "Hey, I have some relatives of yours and some food. Come hang out with us." So, he's now in this like pocket dimension inside the mountain, which makes no sense cuz there's a sky, there's sun, there's like miles and miles of land. Like he's flabbergasted. But, he doesn't question it cuz here he doesn't have to go hunt a deer. Right. So, T decides to stay with them. He eats their food. He lives their life.

Hey, his family like kicked him out. These people are welcoming him in. He's like, "Hey, here. Come stay with us."

I wonder what his family thought. If they were like, "Oh my god, we sent him off to get a deer and now he's dead." Unfortunately, I feel like in the wilderness back in the day, people did get lost to

50:00

the uh

Yeah. to nature. Yeah. They probably felt so much guilt. Or at least I hope that they did. So.

[laughter]

Well, like I don't know. You are a vengeful [ __ ] right now.

[laughter]

You got

Here I lie.

You've got opinions and you need everyone [laughter] to hear them. I need people to be sad. Feel the pain of humanity. No, I do hope his family was upset.

they did.

Can you imagine how cold-hearted it would be to be like "Go do this, my son." Where's my

you were siding with them, like, "Yeah, tell him to go get his deer." Hold your weight.

But then when he doesn't come back, you're like, "Oh my god, I made a grave mistake." Yeah, I know. It's very sad.

incapable of doing that. I sent him on an impossible impossible task and now I just killed my own kid." But now he's actually living forever. Now he is, yeah. So, he's eating their food, he's living their life. And then one day he's like, "I actually do want to go back to my family and show them that I'm okay."

51:00

How nice of him. No deer, though. So, the Nunehi, they let him go. He steps back outside of the cave and now everything is different. The time he spent inside the cave did not match the amount of time outside. Hm. So, he basically had entered some sort of like wrinkle in time, some sort of time slip, which seems to only really exist, at least in the stories, from Pilot Mountain. So, I think if you go into their world in another area, your timeline might add up. But in Pilot Mountain, your years, your minutes, it's all so different. It's like very interesting.

what feels like a year in Pilot Mountain is actually like 10 years in real life? Or is it

I think it'd be like less time.

I think it's it's all over the place.

Like a minute is actually a year in real life? Could be.

Yeah.

Damn. Cuz there's like examples. I can't remember if I wrote it. So, we'll we'll see if we get there. But there's like examples of people who go in and then when they leave to go like find their village or their family, like nothing exists where they once Woah. And it's

52:00

like I don't know if that's the future or if that's the past. Like did they actually just re-enter Hm.

before their people even like settled there? It is very trippy. So, there's another story from the Cherokee people called the Lost Settlement. But so, T never found his family? I don't think so. At least that's kind of where the story ended. Okay. So, in the Lost Settlement, there was a Cherokee village called Canasta on the French Broad River. And one day, two Nunehi messengers arrive and they tell the chief "Bad times are coming. Wars, disease, a stronger enemy who will take your land." Oh, so they can also see the future. Yeah. They're magical immortal beings. What can't they do? Who Like, what is time? Again, like where are they seeing everything all at once? Do they know everything that will forever happen? So, likely this is a prophecy about the European colonization and the Trail of Tears. Jeez.

people were offered a choice, basically. Stay here and face the suffering. Or

53:00

come with us. But you have to live forever. I would choose to go with them. You would choose to live forever? In that situation?

Yeah. Yeah. People were divided. So, the village, they held council. They decided as a village to go. They fasted for 7 days to purify themselves to be able to go join the Nunehi, which I don't know if that was Cherokee tradition cuz I don't think the Nunehi required that. But that's what they did. And on the seventh day, the Nunehi returned and led the entire population of this village toward Pilot Mountain. To a large stone deep within the mountains. The stone just casually and effortlessly rolls to the side, opening up a door to inside of the mountain. Into one of the most beautiful places these people had ever seen. Many of the Cherokee people just immediately booked it inside. They're like, "Beautiful." You know, like the rolling lands, the

lazy river.

There's the lazy river, the margaritas.

54:00

[laughter]

Like there's everything. They were so dazzled. However, the other half were like super fearful. They're like, "Wait, what am I seeing?"

unlike anything you've ever experienced.

Yeah, this isn't natural. This doesn't exist in in our human earthly nature. It shouldn't. So, they were very fearful, very dubious, very like what sort of like trickery is happening here? This doesn't feel right. So, there's a world within the rock, a world within this mountain. It seems impossible. Some people choose to enter. Some people return to the village. The people who returned to the village, unfortunately, tragedy did come for them. Hm. The people who were in the mountain were saved. They escaped the Trail of Tears. They escaped smallpox. They escaped basically every tragedy that unfortunately happened to the native people over the past many centuries. Hm. It is said that these Cherokee people are still waiting for the world to be safe enough to return. Which which will never happen. It will never happen and also I don't think they can technically return.

55:00

and they're in their own world, which is much better.

Yeah. But this is also an interesting thing. So, there is a theory, which this kind of like goes against the rule of like, "Okay, if you join the Nunehi, stay there for long enough, eat their food, then you are a Nunehi. You live immortally forever and you can't return to like the normal earthly world." However, some people theorize that modern Cherokee who live in this area today are descendants of those who actually went into the mountain and were saved by the Nunehi. So, I don't really know how that works. Well, cuz didn't some of them not go in? So, like, say my dad went in. Yeah, but but I didn't. But it was saying that everyone who stayed died.

died. Hm. I don't know. I'm not sure. But very heartbreaking. But also kind of beautiful that they were attempted to be saved by this like Yeah. Well, I'm also just so curious cuz like they are so tied to the Cherokee people that it feels like and look like the Cherokee people.

like it that I'm like, who was the first Nahe Na- I don't know what

Nunehi?

56:00

Nunehi.

be saying it wrong, too. And are they all Cherokee people? Oh, yeah. Could you be Nunehi if you're not Cherokee?

Yeah, like I don't know.

Maybe not. Because like the Huh. I was just going to say cuz the one tribe that came to fight the Cherokee couldn't see the Nunehi as they fought. Yet during the Civil War, they were seen Yeah.

by the enemy. They chose to They showed

Yeah. Themselves, too.

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Become a Fora advisor today at foratravel.com/tgog. That's f o r a travel.com/tgog. And make sure to tell them that we sent you. Foratravel.com/tgog. Okay, so, modern day, Nunehi have not been seen. But how do you know if you are about to be approached by someone who seems to just be there to help you, but maybe is actually about to take you into another dimension? Okay. What are

58:00

the signs? Music. Correct. Sign number one, music or an auditory shift. So, this is a really big one. Mooney had written before about like hunters near the Nunehi townhouses hearing drumming and dancing. But it's interesting because like there's some disorientation when it comes to the music. So, it's kind of like But that's also so tricky because there's disorientation with so many unsavory entities in Appalachia that it's like how do you distinguish the difference between them? Well, exactly. Because it it's exactly like when discussing windy boys and stuff like that, where it's like if you hear a whistle that sounds really close, they're actually farther away. If you hear a whistle that sounds farther away, they're actually very close.

Yeah. That is literally the same here. So, there's like some sort of acoustic camouflage where like Hm. the closer [clears throat] you get, the farther away it sounds. Other people have said that there's like this low frequency hum. Like the whole forest is vibrating. The Cherokee believed that the shifting sound was the Nunehi protecting their door. So, if you hear music in the woods

59:00

and you can't locate it, don't follow it. Cuz they're like purposely trying to mislead you and guide you away from potential like maybe some portal that you might accidentally walk through. Okay.

Which again, I'm like did missing people just walk through a portal not knowing? Yeah. Okay, sign number two, food. So, we talked about it a couple times, but if you are offered food by someone random who's exceptionally handsome. If you eat it, you might end up Don't trust [laughter] it. You might end up bound to them. And you might not be able to return to your world permanently, or you will die. I'm curious though if they warn you of that. Yeah, I'm not sure.

Like it doesn't sound like they're actively trying to recruit people all the time. Yeah. Do they offer, or are you asking? Like I'm hungry, do you have food? Right. Like could you say, do you have human food? And then they give you And they give you a human. Specifically.

[laughter]

Here's your uncle. Oh, okay. So then sign number three, missing time. So in almost every

1:00:00

abduction story, there's some sort of time that seems to be broken, especially in Pilot Mountain. So the time seems to add up a lot more in other spots, but Pilot Mountain, like I said, it gets

happening in Pilot Mountain? But even yeah.

lay lines. Even so, um in other spots, there are some bits of time that don't add up. So in other spots, maybe like a few hours could be like a week, but I think in Pilot Mountain, in that region, a few hours could be 10 years.

could be years. They have. They have. Now queue the vanishing people in the national parks under bizarre circumstances. Okay. So a couple examples of people who have gone missing. Dennis Martin, 1969, a 6-year-old boy playing hide-and-seek. He steps behind a bush and he just vanishes without a trace, gone. The largest search party in park history, but they found nothing. No clothes, no scent trail, just gone. Austin Bohannon, 2017. He was 18. He was lost for 11 days

1:01:00

in the Great Smoky Mountains without gear. When he was found, he was disoriented, his memories were disjointed, but he survived, but his account was of moving from ridge to ridge, and a feeling very dreamlike when being like almost like transported. Wow.

Which like, you know, he could have just been disoriented and Sure. But he also could have been disoriented, not eating the food of the people, and they're helping him. Right. Who knows? Those are just like two very small examples of like many people who vanish in this area, and knowing that the Ninnim are known for taking these people in who they think are lost or Mhm. in trouble, it would make sense. Right. Then like maybe people are surviving, they're just living somewhere else now. Huh. Again, it's like ACOTAR. They don't know that there these whole worlds beyond. And the main character like disappears, and her family's like, where the hell did she go? She's being sacrificed in some like weird trials.

1:02:00

She's trying to mar- Yeah, she she and marry different fairy kings. Yeah. So it is interesting, because a lot of the missing people cases, it's like the reports are about weird auditory shifts, being separated from the group suddenly, But again, those are a lot of side effects to various entities and beings. And also dehydration, yeah, disorientation, and hypothermia. So it is very confusing. Uh but some people believe that the Ninnim are still very active, that they are still coming into our dimension, taking people who they feel need to be protected, and perhaps even people who just maybe traveled a little too close to the portal. Huh. Sorry, I went off on another um Stranger Things tangent. Oh, well, I'll just read it. It kind of makes sense. I was angry.

[laughter]

You still are. It's the it. You feel it. Okay, so it said that they live in this reality that's superimposed onto ours,

1:03:00

and people were talking about like the humming sound coming from the forest, and comparing it maybe to like almost like a radio frequency. So the comparison I was just making was like basically like if we're tuned to like 995.5, and they're 95.7, or whatever. And so it's like we're occupying the same space, but we don't always interfere with each other until we do. Kind of like the upside I was thinking like the upside down. Yeah. And Hawkins. Mhm. But where we live.

[snorts]

So once you're at this like really energetically high point, like on a mountain or in a riverbed, like you were saying, these places already hold a lot of energy, it's more likely that there's going to be these sort of like shifts in frequency, and that they will bleed over. And if you're missing in the woods, if you've been lost in the woods, or if you're fasting, you're exhausted, you're kind of like in this weird state of consciousness, like altered state of consciousness, perhaps that's also opening you up to see this other dimension.

1:04:00

The Cherokee have a deep respect for the Ninnim. They do not hunt them, they do not try to capture them, they do not try to lure them out. They respect their boundaries. And if a place feels off, if the woods go silent, and if you hear music where there should be none, you leave. You're passing through, you keep it moving. You hear something, no you don't. You see something, no you don't. The Ninnim are definitely still there. We might have paved over their trails, we may have built Walmarts next to their mounds. We put radio towers on their mountains, but they are still there, inside of the mountains, under the riverbeds, watching and waiting. So the next time you're hiking in the Appalachians, and you hear a twig snap, or you hear a faint bell in the wind, a drum, some laughter, some dancing, consider what you've learned today. Consider this. For the love of god, if a handsome person, a handsome stranger invites you to a party inside of the mountain, kiss them. Kiss them.

1:05:00

[laughter]

Well, I guess yeah, your answer depends on whether or not you want to live forever. Well, I guess the Ninnim people, the people who live forever, the people who live everywhere. Damn. I have such respect for them as well, and I have questions, but I also am okay with not having answers. Yeah, me too. There's a lot of things in life we won't have the answers to, and this is one that I'll just enjoy.

us, this is for the Cherokee. They're they're for the Cherokee people. Right. I don't know who's to protect us. Who do we have? Each other.

[laughter]

We have to bribe the the Cherokee to help us.

do think though like if I ever find myself in Appalachia, and if God forbid I find myself trapped or lost or anything, like I I like to know that the Ninnim people exist, Mhm. because I think I would call upon them if I were in a desperate place. But had I not known about them, I wouldn't maybe

1:06:00

I wouldn't know

to to ask. To ask, yeah.

To ask the wind for them. Yeah. Okay,

listener story

well, I picked a listener story that involves stories from Cherokee Nations.

Ooh, perfect. This is from our listener Jasper. Native stories, werewolves, demons, and spirit visits. Hello ladies, my name is Jasper, and I've been around the supernatural my whole life, so it seems. Forgive the late hour, but I saw your episode of Native stories, and I couldn't pass the opportunity to share some of my stories. I grew up in Kansas, and I have quite a few stories. I'll start off by saying I am Cherokee on my father's side, and Blackfoot on my mother's side. So I feel as if I have a better understanding of things. When I was younger, I would visit my paternal grandmother very often, and her name was Kathy. She was basically the stereotypical Native grandmother, comforting and warm. I always felt safe with her. And my father was a bit of a ladies' man, and had a thing for white women, so I had a few sisters.

[laughter]

I only met one, and she was a bit

1:07:00

different, to say the least. One night, it was me, my sister, and her friends staying in my grandmother's apartment living room. A dog howled outside somewhere, and my grandma came running in, asking if that was my sister. We all look at my grandma saying, no, but my grandma looked very paranoid, and said something about the full moon coming up. This was around the time that Twilight was very popular, so you can imagine where my head went. And to this day, I never got an explanation of that. Wait, so does your grandma know that your sister's a werewolf? Is is your sister a werewolf? Does that mean you have werewolf blood, too? I'm confused. Huh. Is grandma werewolf? It's a mystery. So now, a few years before I moved to where I am now, I was asleep on the couch in my front room after staying up watching Supernatural. I wake up to a hand on my ankle. Thinking it's my maternal grandmother coming to wake me up and put me to bed, I don't really think much of it. But then, I feel how heavy this hand is. And very suddenly, as I realize how heavy

1:08:00

the hand is, several hands, and I mean several, start to move up my body.

[gasps]

I immediately start saying, you are not welcome here. This is a safe place. Go away. Go to where you belong. And I covered my head with my blanket. I felt this heavy presence, and then suddenly, it was gone. So it was very normal for me to feel this heavy presence, though it never escalated to this point before. I'd often be in my room with the door open, and with the way our house is built, there were no windows in the hall. I would look at my door, and I would just know that something was there. It would never come inside, but it would just stand and observe. So you can imagine how this touching me, and multiple hands going all over my body, was quite a jump, and quite terrifying from the usual just standing and staring. Yeah. Another time, I was making a recipe that was one of my late great grandpa's favorite, who I also had unfortunately not gotten the chance to meet. But this recipe was chocolate peanut butter fudge.

1:09:00

And since it was not long after his death, I thought I would make us all feel better. My grandpa, his son, was in the recliner watching Monday Night Raw, as, you know, one does, when I happened to look out the corner of my eye, and see my grandpa standing against the wall, smiling and watching me cook. I smile as well, and say, hey grandpa, only to hear his voice across the house, still in his recliner. So I whip my head, and truly, no one is there next to me. Now, guess what? My grandpa and his father, my great grandpa, were literally twins. They looked the exact same, and I had never met this man a day in my life, and he showed himself to me. So I like to think he was watching me, staying around to watch over my grandpa, and was approving of me making his chocolate peanut butter fudge. I have so many other stories, wholesome and not so wholesome. But for now, tell Sven I say hi, and have a spooky day, ladies, from Jasper. Dang. I'm caught up on the werewolf thing a little bit. I

1:10:00

Same.

[laughter]

Like, this is a horrifying encounter. This is There's so much going on. Sister might be a werewolf. Suddenly being like attacked by the paranormal in a way that you've never been before. A dead A relative A dead relative if who's never appeared suddenly being like, "Hey, what's up?" So many things happening in your life, Jasper. But I really I do have a lot of questions about the sister thing.

Yeah. So Jasper's with his sister, who it seems like they're half sister, right?

Mhm. And a friend. They're sitting in the living room. There's a wolf howl from outside. But grandma comes running in and immediately goes, "Was that you, sister?" Yeah, that's the first thing she jumps to. And then And then what was

are you turning? What was the sister's reaction? They all were like, "What? No." But like, is that what Jasper remembers? Like, because that's what Jasper was thinking, or if like, truly We don't know if the sister knew something was going on.

[sighs and gasps]

1:11:00

I I love [clears throat] werewolf stories because I feel like we don't get them enough. No, I also feel like to be a part of a family and then discover that you're a werewolf or someone in your family is a werewolf is kind of world shattering. Like it Like more so than a lot of other entities. Yeah. I feel like the werewolf thing is the most shocking. That would be hard to really deal with. Cuz it's not like you're just you have powers

You lose your own You lose control. You lose control and you literally turn into another creature, and it's like And it seems painful in every rendition of it. Like, turning into a werewolf doesn't seem like a enjoyable It's like It's like menstruation. Yes, if you could just scoop it out all at once. Yeah, I don't know. Huh. And it's like, your safety's at risk, and your family's probably constantly worried for you. Yeah, like why is the the trope always like, no matter how strong the chains are, you can break free?

Right. It's like other people are at risk, but then also you

1:12:00

I'm soaring, flying. There's a full moon overhead, and I'm feeling free. I am hairy. Keep going. I'm here [laughter] for this rendition.

free. Oh, man. Werewolf musical.

[laughter]

I like that more than the bigfoot one. Actually, we have to do this one day, but someone One of our listeners wrote like a musical for us and wrote a bunch of songs for our musical. I love it. People are so creative. I think we Didn't we read a few of them on here? I don't remember. I think we did. We might have. Um but stay tuned. Werewolf the musical coming soon. Uh no. This podcast is going to turn into a review of Naayee smat He arrived at the werewolf musical. Yeah. But thanks for joining us. If you have any paranormal stories, if you know more about the the Naayee, we'd love to

1:13:00

hear more about it, or if you have entities and beings that are important to your culture, please share them with us cuz we love to learn and research. So, email us 2girls1ghostpodcast@gmail.com. If you want episodes 1 week early and ad-free, you can join us on Patreon or sign up for the Apple Plus subscription. If you join Patreon, we also give you bonus episodes. You have campfire stories every week where you can join live and share your story live. Mhm. Um and so much more. Thank you to Jamie and Emma for producing our podcast, and thank you to all of you. We love you, and we will see you on the other side. Very spooky.