The Honeymooners Who Vanished | Murder, Mysteries & Haunted Caverns in the Grand Canyon (Ep 386)

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And his grandson, when going through the studio, found a human skull. The human skull had a bullet wound in the skull, hidden under a ledge.

expecting this.

Very spooky.

Hi. Happy anniversary. Happy anniversary. Happy anniversary to Happy anniversary us. Yay.

This is Two Girls One Ghost.

Two Girls One Ghost. We are your ghostesses. That is Karen.

Hello.

I'm Sabrina. And my goodness, if you've been here for all nine years, thank you. You deserve a medal for sticking through the early years with us.

Yeah. I think we deserve a medal, too, because

[laughter]

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um

Pats on the back.

Every week we do a research paper. Basically.

Oh, and right now, while we're preparing for your maternity leave, we're doing like full-on

Yeah.

Like we're each doing one to two a week.

"Oh, we'll never have to do this again." And then, two years later, we started a podcast where we're like, "Wouldn't it be great to write 10-page research papers every single week?"

And sometimes we read an entire book in preparation for episodes. So, yeah, pats on our own back.

It doesn't feel bad, though, when it's a topic you like.

Yes. And that's the thing. That's why we've been doing it for nine years, because we are obsessed with this topic and just strange, weird things in the world, and of which there are endless amounts.

It never ends.

You all are freaking haunted and freaking weird, and we're just so grateful that this little weird community exists.

Mhm.

[clears throat]

We found our people.

And that is why, for our anniversary, to celebrate nine years, we decided to share an episode or like make it into two parts.

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Yeah.

And go somewhere super creepy.

Do you know how to twerk? Sorry. I just you before this asked me how the Ladies and Tangents show went and in which is Oh my gosh. Ladies and Tangents came and did a live show in Somerville, Massachusetts back in May. It was so outrageously funny. I I don't laugh out loud often, even when I go to like a comedy show. Well, the part of the video like cuz it was like girls gone wild and it's like a summer party vibes and so they had video of a whole segment where they were like teaching themselves how to twerk. And it was the fun I was fully laughing out loud the entire time, but then I just made me think with the excitement and energy I was like, what if I just got up and like started twerking like bent over and started twerking, but I don't know how to twerk. So then I was like, do you know how to twerk?

I have one one twerk move, but there's there's many moves

out there.

twerk.

Okay.

Right?

So you can do one jiggle? One clap?

I can do one.

One clap?

It's more of a gyration.

I think that's the You need gyration for

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[laughter]

a twerk.

Yeah. And I I can't like do it while I'm standing. I got to be more in a squat.

Mhm. The bent down position.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I can squat twerk.

[laughter]

And I think I think that's part of it.

Yeah. I also don't have a butt. We sit here.

true. You do have a butt.

I don't. I've been told so many times I don't.

So many people Well, I think it's also cuz you're very pregnant and like you kind of like are holding your belly.

Yeah.

But in the videos recently people are like, "Okay, Kristin's got a dump truck."

What videos? I'm sitting.

No, the Let's see. I'll show you this one that we filmed and then

Guys, I think that those are my love handles.

[laughter]

I [gasps] don't think I think you're misinterpreting

I think it's the way your hands are placed

on my side as being my butt.

it looks like you have a

It looks like I Guys, I have a big ass. [laughter] Let me tell you.

Doesn't look like you have

That looks like a big

huge butt.

[laughter]

Ah.

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That makes me feel good. That never have I ever had one, so.

I know I I had one for like a hot second and then disappeared.

Yeah, I think specifically like in my field hockey days I had a butt.

Mhm, yeah.

And then then it was gone.

Where'd it go?

I don't know.

That's a mystery. We'll We'll never know the answer to that.

[laughter]

We slide so fast when we go down slides, there's nothing to stop us. Slip right on down. We're like a stick of butter.

Didn't you do the cop slide? Do I remember that correctly?

Yeah, so my friend Anne and I, we went to go see The Devil Wears Prada with like a bunch of like girls and then Anne and I, cuz Anne lives in my building. Or well, [snorts] she moved, but she did. And we were walking back and we're like we we're passing the cop slide in Boston. Which is like this famous massive slide. It's silver and people were complaining

just put in a couple years ago. They spent all this money to redo

And people were complaining that it was like dangerous and too fast.

It's super dangerous.

And so a cop went and was like, "Let's see." And there's a video of him like

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literally flying.

like did it on the news, like in the video. We'll all test it out.

Yeah.

Like that guy got hurt.

So we went and did it. Keep in mind I'd also taken a weed gummy, so I was like scared. And so And I was wearing I feel like I wasn't wearing the appropriate attire to go super fast.

Mhm.

Cuz I didn't go that fast. And I was wearing sneakers. Like I think if I had taken my shoes off and or like put my feet up a little bit, I would have flown. But getting up to the slide is the scariest part.

Yeah, whoever designed that park is it is not safe for adults.

No.

Definitely not for children.

But I survived the slide.

Damn.

It was very fun. It was a fun little adventure.

episode of I survived. But sadly

to transition, not everyone survives

this place.

Actually no one survives life because everyone dies.

Grand Canyon Mysteries

Well, and for this episode we're heading back to the Grand Canyon. Sabrina brought us there last week.

Mhm, on a road trip.

To a place that is both a bucket list item for many, but also a place that can swallow people whole.

Or an anti-bucket list place for you.

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Anti-bucket list, I will never go. Don't drag me there. This place is so vast, so ancient, so dark in its depths that even scientists and the rangers and the geologists will admit that there are a lot Well, you said this, too, but there's a lot of it

that is unexplored.

A lot of it that remains a mystery.

Mhm.

Passages, caves, corridors in the rock that no living being has ever stepped foot in that we know of, at least.

Also, the thousands of people who've gone missing over the years that have never been found.

Yep.

Where are they?

Oh, great question and wonderful transition

welcome.

into the first part of my story, which is an unsolved mystery, a young couple disappearing on their honeymoon, and it kind of almost has a Gone Girl style twist.

Oh.

But it's still a mystery, so it's like a Could it be?

Okay. Okay. I'm here for it.

Bessie & Glen Hyde

It's November 1929.

Good year.

[laughter]

That was such a great year. What even happened?

I couldn't tell you.

The clothes got smaller.

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Flapper dresses, yeah. People were showing their ankles and the scandal. My gosh.

A young woman is standing on the rim of the Grand Canyon, on the edge of one of the most terrifying and beautiful places on Earth. The sun is starting to lower in the sky and she looks at a little girl standing nearby, glances down at the little girl's shoes and says aloud, "I wonder if I shall ever wear pretty shoes again." She then begins to head back down into the canyon, never to be seen again. This woman was Bessie Hyde. Born in 1905 in Parkersburg, West Virginia, Bessie was, by all accounts, a woman who she was a rule follower. She stayed inside the lines. She went to college at Marshall College.

a clarifying question?

Yeah.

Was that her alive or was that her spirit saying that?

That was her alive.

She literally said, "I wonder if I'll ever wear fancy shoes again." and disappeared into the canyon.

Uh-huh.

Okay. Okay.

Yep. Well, I said she followed the rules, but she was also kind of a pioneer at the same time because she went to Marshall College at a time when a lot of women didn't go to college.

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Weren't even allowed to go to college.

Right.

Yeah. She studied poetry. She wrote. She moved to San Francisco. She enrolled at the California School of Fine Art. She had an entire collection of unpublished poems called Wandering Leaves. Like she was she was an artist.

Yeah. Creative.

A feeler. She had gotten I like barely I didn't even write half of this, but she did get married to her um like high school sweetheart, but I think that it was kind of an abusive relationship. So, they also while they got married super young, they divorced super young. And while she was in the process of separating from her husband in the winter of 1927, Bessie was on a passenger ship traveling from San Francisco to Los Angeles. And on that ship, she meets a man. A man named Glenn Hyde. Glenn Roland Hyde was born in 1898

name.

Glenn Roland Hyde.

Glenn Roland Hyde.

Wow. That's a that rolls off your tongue.

Yeah, it does. It kind of sounds like a movie star name. Except he was kind of the opposite of the lifestyle of a movie

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star. He was a super outdoorsman,

Mhm.

tinkerer, like like to put things together. He had very big dreams, very big personality. Bessie was a little bit more in her feels, quieter, expressed herself through poetry, expressed herself. Glenn did not. He was very much like a

closed book.

Yeah.

And don't feel your feelings.

Don't feel your feelings. Go build a tractor.

Go chop some wood.

Exactly.

Yeah.

But opposites attract. And by the time that he met Bessie, he had already accomplished quite a few adventures such as rowing a hand-built scow scow.

What's that?

I think it's a boat.

Oh, okay.

From the Salmon River all the way to the Pacific Ocean.

Did you see the woman who's sailing or rowing from the US to Hawaii? She's going to be the first US woman to do it solo.

I mean by the time that Yeah, she was tracking her, but by the time this

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episode comes out she'll probably have reached there. I think it's going to take anywhere from like 60 to 90 days.

god.

Yeah.

Damn, good for her, but that's really scary.

And she does like update videos. I can't even imagine.

the proper time to leave weather-wise?

I think I mean I'm sure she did her her planning and her research.

Okay.

But yeah, rowing.

[gasps]

Hand rowing.

Yeah, not even just sailing. She's hand rowing.

Rowing. She had the blisters that she showed and I think she was The time we're recording this is end of May we're recording this. It was day like five or six that she did an update and her hands were so blistered and I was like, "Oh my god, I can't even

Is she going to get like phantom rowing arm or like when she's sleeping her arms feel like they're still rowing?

I feel like you'd have to.

I mean the amount of prep she probably did for this she probably's been

That's why

rowing for rowing for days

Well, I hope she gets the same experience as that woman who like lived in a cave for what? 500 days.

And she was very happy.

And she was like, "What? I thought I was like on day 100."

Yeah.

I hope that this woman is also like, "I can't believe I'm already in Hawaii. I

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thought I had so much longer to go."

for her too for her too.

Man. [clears throat] Okay, but all to say like this guy was kind of in a similar interest field where like he liked danger, he liked adventure, he liked to be out there. So kind of the opposite of what Bessie had done where she's like the studious artist who's writing poetry and

Yeah, I wouldn't picture her

living in San Francisco.

living in the woods.

No, definitely not. But he's also kind of got that like bad boy vibe.

Mhm.

Right?

He'll keep you safe.

Mhm.

Or that's what you think.

So, Bessie and Glenn, they fall in love fast and hard. But, there's one small problem because Bessie is still technically married to Earl, her high school sweetheart.

Mhm.

They were not together for some time, but Earl was refusing to grant her a divorce. So, that Earl is why

trying to

hold power and control.

Totally. So, Bessie, she's smart. She's like, let's not make this an issue. She moves to Elko, Nevada, met the residency requirement, and then herself filed for a divorce, which I don't know all the

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like legality of what happened, but like that was kind of like her loophole

Okay.

to file for divorce, and it was eventually accepted by Earl, finalized on April 11th, 1928, and on April 12th, 1928, the very next day, she marries Glenn.

Wow.

She's 22 years old, and Glenn is like, I know the perfectest spot for our honeymoon, the Grand Canyon. And

But, you know, to each your own.

Totally. If you're into like

Yeah.

sightseeing and like hikes, and maybe like going and dining and staying at a hotel or something.

like they needed a two-part honeymoon where it's like Glenn's honeymoon, and then her honeymoon.

She didn't get her honeymoon at all.

Yeah.

Glenn [clears throat] wanted to boat the entire 277 miles of the Colorado River that ran specifically through the Grand Canyon in a homemade wooden boat with no life jackets in the fall.

Glenn, that sounds terrible. You don't know your wife at all.

No, but basically like the way that he

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got her, I guess, to agree to it was that he was like, if you succeed, like if we succeed in doing this, you will be the first documented woman to navigate the entire Colorado River portion of the Grand Canyon.

He's trying to spin it as like a bonus for her, like a good thing to do.

Right. And so, in her mind, she's like, oh my god, I'd get in newspapers, I'd get some celebrity.

Yeah.

And it wasn't about being a famous person, it was about book deals and like publishing her poetry and like getting to promote that. So, she, I guess, that's what got her to agree to it.

to her.

Yeah. So,

Am I allowed to not trust Glen?

Totally.

Okay, good. Cuz I already don't trust him.

No.

I just don't want to be wrong in my not trusting him.

But we don't know.

Okay, I don't trust him. I feel like it's safe to say.

Glen's showing some signs of not being the most trustworthy.

the honeymoon

Okay.

Okay, so they got married in April. He's like, let's go in the fall and do this. So, he had time to build the boat himself. It takes him two days to build the boat. He had months, but it took him

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two days and $50

Okay.

to build a boat that's supposed to support them through dangerous rapids through the entire Grand Canyon.

Mhm.

With his new bride. He that he's responsible for keeping safe. So, it is a 20-ft long boat with a flat bottom, long wooden oars for steering, no motor, no safety equipment, just enough room for the two of them, a place to sleep. They're sleeping in the boat.

Yeah.

Food, supplies, her journal, and a camera. And I can't really zoom in that well, but let me just

Oh, wow. Okay.

It like looks really funky. And if you're watching on YouTube, you'll be able to see a picture. And if you're not, you can just Google it. So, they named the boat Rain-in-the-Face.

Interesting. Okay, Rain-in-the-Face.

Rain-in-the-Face. Well, there's no real covering. They're definitely going to get

gets rained in the face.

Yeah, lots of rain in the face.

I feel like these two-part episodes are really reminding me of Apex, that movie.

I love the I haven't seen it, but the sound that's trending

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the song, and everyone's like, "I thought you liked danger."

Yeah.

Got to the end of the song.

Yeah. It does kind of have that feeling.

Yeah.

So, now they've been married for a few months. Fall is here, and they're ready to begin their honeymoon.

And get rained in the face.

And get rained in the face. October 20th, 1928, Glen and Bessie Hyde launch from Green River, Utah. Their plan is to float down the Green River, connect to the Colorado River, run through the Grand Canyon, and then arrive in Needles, California by December 9th. So, they're leaving

over about a month.

It's like a week or a week and a half shy of 2 months.

Okay.

Long journey. So, they would stop and resupply along the way, and Glen's father, Roland Hyde, would be waiting for them in California. So, Bessie brings with her her camera and her journal, and she journals about almost every day about their adventure.

Okay.

According to Bessie's journal, the first leg of the trip is actually going really well. She wrote that they were way ahead of schedule, the river was intense, it

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moved really fast, they had some scary moments, but like overall, she felt really exhilarated by it. So, like she's actually enjoying her time here.

And I'm sure it's inspirational as like a poet to see nature that way.

yeah.

You watch Glen make Glen do all the rowing, and you're just there

All the poetry writing poetry.

Yeah.

The river waters about the rain

in your face. I Sorry, I can't get past that detail. Rain in the face.

Early in the trip, uh Glen actually fell out of the boat on a rapid. He went fully into the Colorado River. This was in October, so it was like right when they first started. He managed to get back into the boat, kept rowing, could have died, but whatever, he survived, so they were like no worries, not a bad omen at all, let's just keep going.

But also, I expect that if you're doing this trip, you would expect to fall in at least once.

Probably.

Cuz rapids are dangerous.

Yeah, they are. It made me flash back to when I did black water rafting in Korea. Yeah. And my teacher fell out as we went down a waterfall.

Terrifying.

But I plucked her out of the waterfall.

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Put her back in.

Just I am apex.

[laughter] [clears throat]

I don't have a butt, but I have superhuman strength when my

a dump truck now.

friend is about to drown in a different country.

[gasps]

Okay. So, now they're about a month in. It's November 16th and they arrive to an area that's called the Grand Canyon Village. It's on the South Rim.

Mhm.

They hike up the Bright Angel Trail to resupply, but this is where things get a little bit interesting.

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the last photograph

So, on the South Rim, Glenn and Bessie walk into the studio of a man named Emery Kolb. And the Kolb brothers in this area are legendary. They're like super famous photographers.

Okay.

Emery and Ellsworth Kolb had built a studio that's literally hanging on the edge of the Grand Canyon.

Does that still exist?

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so. I think that this is the picture that I'm including in the YouTube is like a modern-day picture of their studio.

Oh, wow.

It's like right there.

That's wild.

On the cliff face.

Beautiful.

So beautiful. So, these are iconic, famous photographers that they're meeting. And in 1928, Emery was one of the most knowledgeable people alive when it came to the Colorado River.

Damn.

So Glenn and Bessie, they knock on his door, they introduce themselves, and Emery took them in, fed them, showed them around. He liked the couple immediately, but there were some things that he noted that were like strange for the tale that they were

Strangers showing up at your door. Red flag number one.

I guess in in the early 1900s it was totally fine. I don't know if like he was like a known person to go to for like knowledge or like a pit stop or something. I have no idea how like why this was an encounter.

Yeah.

But basically he was like, "Okay, well, I don't see any life jackets. That's weird."

That's very weird.

Super weird. And so he brought it up. He was like, "Where are your life jackets?" And he said that Glenn laughed and said

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they didn't have any. And so Emery was like, "Okay, no problem. I'll get you some." Glenn's like, "No, we don't need any." Which is like you're not getting a prize for going down the river with no life jacket.

Right. Like just have it near you.

Yeah.

You don't need to wear it the whole time. Don't worry, the tan lines will go away.

It's so it's so What tan lines? It's the winter.

Oh, that's true.

[laughter] [gasps]

Emery later said that Bessie seemed hesitant, too. Like she seemed really tired.

Mhm.

She seemed like she wasn't really sure if she wanted to go back to the boat. She seemed ready to quit. That was kind of like the vibe he was getting from her. And so he offered them a room. Not just for the night, but like to winter. Like, "Hey, if you want to like stop your journey right now and just hang out here." Yeah.

But they declined and he was like, "Well, what about like a few days of rest?" And Glenn was like, "No, we don't need that. We have a schedule to keep. We have a record to break. My wife has to be famous."

Okay, Glenn.

So Emery's like, "Okay, I did what I

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could." He's a famous photographer. He grabs his camera and he takes their photograph. Glenn and Bessie standing on the rim of the Grand Canyon squinting in the November sun. Bessie's hair is pinned up. She's wearing a coat.

going to say she looks fabulous.

She does.

not look like she's traveling the river.

Yeah. Glen is beside her. He's confident. I'd say he looks a lot older than he is.

Mhm.

Cuz he is doing stressful events often.

Well, also this is the thing is back then people could lie about literally anything and there's no way to fact check it.

That's true.

have lied about how old he was.

Yeah, for all we know.

They seem generally happy in this photo. Like when you look at the photo

it's very easy to lie in a photo.

photo that will ever be taken of them alive or ever.

Sad.

So they get their photo taken and then they stand up to head back down the path to go down to the river. Emery's young daughter comes out to say goodbye. She's wearing a lovely dress and a nice pair of shoes. This is the girl from the beginning.

Okay. Okay.

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So Bessie stops, looks down at the little girl's shoes and says, "I wonder if I shall ever wear pretty shoes again."

Which is a very weird statement to make.

Especially given that Emery was like she looked really defeated.

Yeah.

And almost made it seem like she was like I don't know if I'll get out of here alive.

Yeah. Yeah. Which could mean that the last however long they've been on the river has been so trying that she's like, "I don't know if I will make it through more of this." Or there's an indication that she literally won't come back alive because of some other

Well, because if she thinks that she's going to make it, wouldn't wouldn't she say like, "Oh, I can't wait to wear pretty shoes again." I can't wait to wear pretty shoes again. Right?

Yeah. Poor Bessie.

Yeah. On November 18th, 1928, Glen and

the final witness

Bessie reached the bottom of Bright Angel Trail. They got back in Rain in the Face and they push off from shore. They had one more companion for part of the day. So they actually were seen again after this photograph.

Okay.

A man named Adolph Sutro, the grandson of the famous San Francisco mayor,

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happened to be in the Grand Canyon and found

know.

just hanging out.

Just just there.

It's the place to be.

Yeah, he found this couple and their boat really fascinating and he was like, "What are you guys doing?" asking some questions. They're talking and he was like, "Do you mind if I like get in the boat and ride with you down river for a couple miles? Like this seems fun." And Glenn was like, "Sure, come on, join us." So, Sutro joined them and he rowed all the way to Hermit Rapid, one of the canyon's most infamous stretches of white water. At Hermit Rapid, Sutro got out and then he hiked a few miles like back up.

So, he was just taking a little joy ride.

Yeah, seriously.

Glenn and Bessie Hyde rowed Rain-in-the-Face into Hermit Rapid and then disappeared around the bend. So, that would make Adolph the last person to see Glenn and Bessie ever. Ever.

the honeymooners vanish

Bessie's journal kept going for 12 more days.

Oh, interesting.

The last entry was written on November 30th, 1928, somewhere near Diamond Creek.

So, just 10 days before they were supposed to meet Glenn's dad.

Mhm. Yeah, okay. She noted that they had

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cleared the 231 mile rapid. So, they had basically like a little bit less than 50 miles of river to go. Like they they're far

They've made it a long way.

Yes. She gave no indication that anything was wrong. She believed that they were very close to the end and then the journal stops. No more entries. On December 9th, the day that they're supposed to arrive in Needles, California and meet Glenn's father, Rollin, there's no word for from Glenn or Bessie. And he's like, "Okay."

Yeah, maybe a slight delay. Right? Like it could it could be a few extra days. You don't know like what they got caught up in. Maybe there's bad weather at some point. They had to stay overnight at places, whatever.

By December 19th, so another 10 days, Rollin is frantic. He has not heard anything from them. He is absolutely panicked. So, he boards a train and heads to the canyon because he's in California waiting in an entirely different spot. And this is when a search party sent out because they're alerted now the area's like, "Okay, there's a missing couple." Because Roland is like, "There are two people missing."

25:00

Yeah.

And I believe the photographers actually are the ones that like put together at the search party.

Cuz they have some investment. Like they met them. Yeah.

And they're really familiar with the area.

Yeah.

They're a huge part of the community. A small airplane is hired to fly through the inner gorge of the canyon. And just one day later, on December 20th, the pilot spots something floating in the Colorado River. About 140 mi from where the Hydes were last seen. It's the boat, Rain in the Face. So eagerly the search party scrambles downriver to get to this boat, and they find the boat. It's sitting there. It's upright. It's intact. All of the supplies are still strapped in. There's food, clothes, books, Bessie's camera, Emery's journal.

That was wondering how they have the records of the

It like literally looks like they got out to go like pee or something.

So it's like tied up essentially on the side of the river.

I don't know that it's tied up.

Okay.

read that.

Okay. Cuz I I feel like

it's pulled to the side. Okay.

Yeah.

Cuz it's it's one of those things where because clearly we know we know that

26:00

they've never been found. Like is it miles away from where they disappeared or is it they pulled off, got out, and like they must be somewhere near there?

Well, so it's found at mile 237. So it's just a few miles down from the last journal entry that Bessie made.

at 231. Is that where they read the diary?

at She had said that they cleared 231. So they were somewhere in between there.

Yeah.

Like she could have been sitting here journaling.

Right. Wow.

And so everything is there

but them.

But them. And the final final photograph from her camera was taken a long time before at River Mile 165. So that would have put them around like November 27th-ish.

Mhm.

So that means that in those last few days they covered at least 60 mi of river.

It's a lot.

Which is a lot.

Yeah.

And they were like so close to the end. River historian Otis Marston, who spent decades studying the Colorado River, believes that the most likely explanation is that Rain in the Face got stuck on some submerged rocks somewhere near mile 232,

27:00

because he said that this stretch of canyon is known to be pretty destructive, known to take boats out because of all of the like hidden rocks underneath.

Mhm.

So, he was like, "Oh, it has to be damaged, and maybe it got capsized, something like that."

But, like

The boat was fine.

The boat was fine. So, like that theory that happened and that they were like forced to leave their boat or that they like fell out and drowned makes zero sense. They have the evidence of the boat.

have fallen out. One of them could have fallen out, the other maybe tried to get the other one, and they fell out, and like the boat was fine, but they were not.

Right.

Yeah, it's hard.

Yeah.

Cuz everything's strapped in perfectly, so like part of me is like, "Oh, well, wouldn't there be like somewhat of like a ruckus?" But, I guess not, cuz if everything's strapped in, it's just like your singular body that's leaving the craft. So, the theory that most historians accept is that somehow they got into the river and were swept away and drowned.

And drowned.

So, they're like, "This is the most logical. Two people in a homemade wooden

28:00

boat with no life jackets in freezing November water in one of the most dangerous river systems in North America, simply the canyon killed them. That's just part of the risk."

Yeah.

Killed others before, would kill others after.

Yeah.

theories

But, this is where things get a little bit more complicated. So, a completely intact boat with everything strapped in not consistent with being capsized at all.

Right.

The boat was tidy, nothing was broken. It looked like someone had navigated the boat to shore and stepped out for a moment. And this brings us back to what Emery Kolb, the photographer, said. He said Bessie seemed ready to quit. She was tired, and she also seemed a little bit scared. Glenn, by multiple accounts, including Emery's, seemed very annoyed with her the whole time that they were interacting with others. He seemed dismissive of her discomfort and like he wasn't going to stop for anything. Bessie's own brother later said that she hadn't told the family about the trip.

Bessie

She kept it from them.

Rule number one, tell people where you're going, especially if you're going to the wilderness with a man.

29:00

It sounded kind of like they maybe would have like really discouraged her from going. And I don't know what they thought about Glenn. There was nothing about like him having a temper or anything like that. But Bessie's brother mentioned that her first husband, Earl Helmick, the high school sweetheart, had a pretty violent temper. So

Okay. And they knew about that.

They knew about that.

But it also does seem like she moved away too in order to be with Glenn. So like the family theoretically didn't have as much contact or like in person time with her and Glenn to know what the relationship was like.

True. But maybe they were suspicious that this guy was a similar personality. And then there's a strange theory that involves Emery Kolb. So Emery Kolb died in 1976 and his grandson, when going through the studio, found a human skull. The human skull had a bullet wound in the skull hidden under a ledge

expecting that.

along with some clothes and a revolver.

30:00

The remains were eventually examined by a forensic anthropologist who compared it to photographs of Glenn and said that he did not think it was Glenn because the bone structure, the eye orbits, the chin shape seemed inconsistent. But people were like, well then who is it? And how do you truly know? And so it's kind of like the theory is that he killed he killed Glenn to help Bessie escape and start a new life. And that she like kept journaling

Bessie is gone. Like she's in the wind. That's the gone girl. She started Okay. Again, she left her journal. I was picturing Apex where he's like a full predator and so in the movie Apex it it went out it came out months and months ago so sorry if this is a spoiler. It's on Netflix, yeah. The title is confusing cuz like it makes you think it's like something else, but it's like a survival horror thriller. It's so good. But, the guy is a predator and he like kills people and has like a cave where all of his like killings are. And I can imagine this guy who's so well-versed in the

31:00

canyons, knows the river system, has a lair of people.

Right, and it would be easy for him to track

Mhm.

them down.

Yep.

But, he also wasn't the last person to see them alive. But, that's not to say

But, that's not to say he couldn't follow them.

Like where the boat was seen.

Right. I like that theory though that Bessie got away and she's still alive. Not now. But, that she lived on and had a happier life.

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the admission

And then there's an admission from someone.

Oh.

In 1971, 43 years after Glenn and Bessie disappeared, a commercial rafting tour was floating through the Grand Canyon, and a group was gathered around a campfire one evening, and an elderly woman who was on the tour suddenly made

33:00

an announcement, and she said, "I'm Bessie Hyde."

I just got chills.

And the group got I mean, yeah.

Like how you grab your boob.

[laughter]

They're strong right now. The group went really quiet, and the river guide named George Billingsley half-jokingly said, "Well, then what did you do with Glenn?" And the woman didn't look up. She kept her gaze where it was, and just said, "I killed him."

[clears throat]

And then she went on, like with more questioning, to say that they had a violent fight, and so she stabbed him. And she hiked out alone to Peach Springs, Arizona, caught a bus, went to the East Coast, I think.

Hm.

Assumed a new identity, and lived her life. And that her name was Elizabeth Cutler. She went by Liz.

I was going to ask if we have her name.

Yeah. But then a reporter tracked her down, and she denied it when the reporter asked, and was like, "I've never heard of the Hydes. I just made it up." Which you're like, "Okay, well, that's weird."

super weird. Or was Bessie like did Bessie do that? Unfortunately die in like the trying to get out of the

34:00

canyon, or many years later died, came back, is haunting the Grand Canyon, momentarily possessed this woman,

Yeah.

Mm.

and shared her story.

Interesting. I don't know. It's strange.

Well, I mean, we're not going to get any answers by the end of this. Yeah.

unsolved.

It's theorizing.

There's also another woman named Georgie Clark, a famous river runner who became legendary for her Grand Canyon trips beginning in the 1940s. And when she died in 1992, friends going through her belongings found the marriage license for Glenn and Bessie. Which why would this woman have Glenn and Bessie Hyde's marriage license?

I mean, unless you can like order a record.

Yeah.

But like why would she do that?

And apparently her birth name wasn't actually Georgie, it was Bessie De Ross. And there was also a pistol in her lingerie drawer. So it's all confusing cuz there's different people.

Interesting.

Historian Brad Dimmick who literally wrote a well a boat a book on this case called

35:00

Sunk Without a Sound examined Georgie's photos and compared them to Bessie and he said that they're not the same person.

How do you know?

Yeah.

What we do know is that Glenn and Bessie Hyde disappeared. Bones have never been found. Their boat Rain in the Face was cut loose after the investigation where it floated down the river and was just swallowed by the river at some point.

take it out?

No.

Huh.

And the Grand Canyon is dangerous. It can kill you, it can bury you, it can hold your secrets forever. Or sometimes it can be the excuse to let you disappear and start fresh.

Huh. I like the idea of starting fresh. I just don't know if that's realistic.

I know. It's a fun theory.

Yeah. It would make a good movie.

It would. But then also it's like well what else happened on that boat? And like what is her life with first husband where like did she just feel like there's no way out or this is going to take me forever if I don't just go now?

It reminds me very sadly of the Gabby Petito case.

Oh yeah.

And like when she went missing and we

36:00

know now that she was murdered horribly. But just like the conspiracies and like the way the internet took to it was like getting so involved and invested in it.

Right. Well there's still conspiracies cuz it's like his family never held a funeral for him.

Yeah.

Just like weird things really.

So strange.

Yeah.

But yeah, it's it's also just wild. I mean this was like 1929, right? So I feel like when people went missing then, it makes sense to me that you don't have as many answers.

Yeah.

It's confounding to me today that people can go missing and just vanish without a trace. With all the technology that we have and cameras everywhere, it's crazy to me that people can just disappear.

Yeah. Although, there's someone in Brian's family that kind of did that.

Really?

His grandfather.

What do you mean?

Well, I think like they like generally know. No, he left he abandoned their family like really young and moved to California and started a new family. But, I think that's like all they knew.

Okay, but he didn't like vanish.

37:00

But, like

In a way, yes.

In a way?

Yeah.

Or like that was the story that they were told?

Crazy. My dad did that, but I know where he is.

You have his cell phone number still?

Yeah. He He calls when it's convenient.

Yeah.

[laughter]

Yeah, it's hard cuz I also have a second cousin who did vanish, but drugs were involved. So. It's so sad.

[sighs and gasps]

It is Yeah. Okay, so that is one of like the famous It's like the the disappearance of the honeymooners or whatever. Yeah. So, if you ever see that, like it's most likely referencing this couple in the Grand Canyon.

Although, there are many others. There was like a whole expedition in the Grand Canyon where people went missing. Cuz when you look up like Grand Canyon mysteries, there's a couple that come up and the the two that we've covered are amongst like the top five that come up.

But, there are a lot of them.

Mhm. But, people still travel to the Grand Canyon. And some people travel hundreds of feet underground to stay in a hotel.

Cool in concept.

38:00

Cool in concept. Not just a unique stay, but a haunted stay. This is the Grand

haunted Grand Canyon Cavern Suite

Canyon Cavern Suite. So, I could have written so much more about this. This easily could have been another like a three-part, but I wanted to include something paranormal. So, I'm going to try to make it as brief as possible while still giving appropriate information.

Okay.

Okay, so in 1927, the same year that Glen Hyde was making his solo river runs dreaming up this honeymoon adventure with Bessie one day, a man named Walter Peck was doing something much more ordinary. He was heading to a poker game.

[laughter]

Walter worked for the Santa Fe Railroad and he was making his way along the trail near Palm Springs, Arizona, which is about 50 miles west of the Grand Canyon's South Rim. So he's out there and suddenly his horse stops. It's spooked and it's like throwing Walter on on its back. And Walter he like fell off the horse and nearly fell into a hole. And it's not just a small hole. This is like a funnel-shaped opening in the

39:00

ground.

Reminds me of the Holes movie.

Oh, Kissin' Kate Barlow. Stanley Yelnats.

It's about 8 ft across and it seemed to go down into total darkness with no clear bottom.

He literally stumbled upon it. Ran into his horse to his poker game.

Wow.

So Walter moved on, probably went to his poker game. And then he came back the next morning with a rope and a couple friends and they rappelled down to see how far they could go. And they get down 150 ft into the dark and Walter is watching the earth's surface like around him as he's rappelling. The walls are sparkling and he's like, "Oh my god, there's diamonds, there's gold. We hit the jackpot." And so he goes back up with his friends and they're all like, "Hush, hush, hush. Like keep this and don't tell anyone about it. We are going to be so rich." And so he immediately bought rights to the property surrounding the hole before anyone else could find it and stake their claim. Now he owns this mine.

Cave. Yeah.

40:00

And he gets the rock samples tested. Iron oxide, rust and selenite crystals. Not gold.

Crystals, not diamonds.

Hey, there's a big crystal business.

A big market today, back then not so much. So yeah, he basically in a way spent his money on something he thought could be promising. Yeah, but I get it. Yeah. Yeah, you got to just strike while you're hot. Yeah. You never know. Take risks. Okay, so he did what any reasonable man in the American Southwest in 1927 would do. He started charging people to go down the hole on a rope cuz he needed to make money, right? He just bought this hole. So, 25 cents a head, BYOL, bring your own lantern. I was saying ladder, 100 ft 50 ft ladder. They started calling it the dope on a rope tour. And over the years the cavern developed into like more of a proper tourist attraction. So, eventually there were stairs, lights, an elevator, a restaurant, a gift shop.

41:00

Yeah. I do have a picture of like the hotel room. Well, I have a couple pictures coming. So, the cavern was renamed several times, but eventually landed on the Grand Canyon Caverns in 1962. Like 50 miles from the South Rim? Okay. But it's connected underground through the to the Grand Canyon itself. Which is also crazy. That proves that there's so much more to the Grand Canyon and how far reaching it is. You can go down here and follow the cave 50 miles and pop out in the Grand Canyon. Caves are crazy. Like how do they withstand the pressure and like movement of land? Yeah. Which is also probably why the Grand Canyon Caves are not as explored because it's totally very dangerous. Okay, so it seems like they're they're onto something. Things are cool. This is becoming a cool attraction. But there's one thing to note and that is that when Walter Peck first repelled down with his friends years before, they actually found two sets of human remains and didn't tell anyone right away. No, I wish. That would have been such a

42:00

good tie-in. Unfortunately, it was the remains Well, they were identified because they they were purposefully put there. It was two Hualapai brothers. They were wood cutters who had died from influenza in the brutal winter of 1917. And so their fellow tribes members had buried them dead there, not realizing that the hole that they were lowering them into wasn't just a hole, but like a

Like a cave.

entrance into an enormous cave system.

Wait, it's amazing that they were able to track specifically who it was.

Yeah, I mean it wasn't that much

Like 10 11 years? 1917 and they found this in 1927?

10 years later, yeah. They found it. Yeah, but this reminds me of a So last week's episode you were talking about all the just like different mummified or like all the bodies down there in the caves and it made me think like what is this a practice that's normal for lowering bodies into caves or like bringing them into

43:00

a cave

systems. I don't know.

Yeah. So the two men were entombed inside the earth 150 ft down alone in the dark for a decade before Walter and his friends

stumbled upon them.

Rediscoved them accidentally, yep. So he kind of interrupted a burial place, though they were identified and moved

Yeah.

properly.

Yeah. And like you said the the natives who buried them there didn't realize it was a cave.

Right, yeah. They thought it was more of just like a burial hole, I guess.

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haunted Grand Canyon Cavern Suite cont’d

Fast forward to 1962, the Cuban Missile Crisis. President John F. Kennedy is looking for places to put people if bombs start falling. And someone suggests the Grand Canyon Caverns. And he's like, wait, this makes sense. They're insulated, they're underground,

45:00

they're dry, the temperature stays at a constant 56° regardless of what's

happening at the surface.

Amazing.

It gets air flow that travels through the cave system. And so the government's like, hell yeah, this is our new fallout shelter. So they actually stock it with supplies, enough supplies to support 2,000 people for 2 weeks. There's still drums of iodine treated water.

cave?

Yes, there's you can still see it if you go on tour. You still see the supplies.

Enough for 2,000 people?

Yep. Cases of food rations, medical supplies, emergency equipment. Here, I made the picture so small in my research, but

Wow.

like parts where it's stockpiled. It's so fascinating.

That is wild. Also, like, it's not the most convenient location. Like, people wouldn't be able to get there within minutes.

Yeah, I guess not. Run. Run.

And then who is allowed Yeah, who are the lucky 2,000?

I don't know.

Hm.

Right, cuz it is such a small number.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's medical supplies, emergency equipment, food rations, water, all the stuff. The supplies are I think all of it is still down there cuz

46:00

it was used.

Right.

They didn't bother spending the time and resources and money to remove it. So it just sits in the cave perfectly preserved in the dry dark cave for you to see on your tour.

Not a terrible place to get stuck if you need

Nope.

If you needed to get stuck somewhere. I'd pick there.

Are also skeletons.

Real ones?

Real ones?

Yes.

Why?

Well, there's a skeleton of a prehistoric and very much extinct giant ground sloth that was found down there.

Again, why?

Well, uh so her

How was it found there?

It was found there.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, so they did actually remove her. Her name is Gertie. She's 15 ft tall. She would have

15 ft tall?

Yeah, giant ground sloth. Prehistoric.

I know, but I thought still giant like thought maybe 5 ft.

Oh, no. The sloths were huge.

Cuz sloths are small nowadays.

Are you not into the conspiracy about like the sloths still existing in like South America?

Oh, I have not ventured there.

47:00

[laughter]

I get too far into my elbows. So she would have weighed around 2,000 lb. She died there sometime in the last ice age and where she was found on the limestone walls around her are claw marks. So she like fell in and was trying to get out.

Gertie.

Yeah, and so that is where that's like why she was there.

That breaks my heart. Gertie. [laughter]

And it's like perfect conditions for her to be mummified.

Aw.

Um so they did remove her remains, but they put a replica of her up so you can see like oh in the general area where she was found. It's like a giant furry ground sloth just hit like hanging there. My Gertie.

But she's not alone because there's also a mummified Actually, is he mummified? I think he is. A mummified bobcat named Bob.

Okay, so not human mummies. We're talking like animal

Animals.

Okay, okay.

But again, you were saying like could remains could people

Like, look mummified.

look mummified because of the particular

48:00

conditions of the cave. And the answer is yes. The answer is yes, we literally have evidence of it.

the cavern suite

So, all of this, if it sounds very exciting to you and you want to go, may I pitch you take it one step further and stay the night in the hotel room.

Singular. One hotel room.

One hotel room.

Okay.

You take the elevator down from the surface 210 ft underground. The elevator still has the fallout shelter signage, so it's like very creepy. The doors will open and you walk into a Grand Canyon Cavern Suite. It's like some sort of network of stone corridors and then you're in a hotel room.

Wow.

According to their website, the Grand Canyon Cavern Suite is the oldest, darkest, deepest, quietest, and largest suite room in the world.

Can you get room service?

No, you cannot. You can't even get television.

[sighs]

How will you watch Apex?

[laughter]

It has a bed, a couch, books, board games. It has a generator uh because there's no power source down there. And they do have a TV, but I think they have

49:00

like movies that you have to watch and at some point I think the generator kicks off because

But I don't think you're going down there to watch TV. Like, you're not going there to watch Summer House. You're going down there to experience

Just be there.

the cave.

It costs about a thousand dollars a night. The rock down there is half a billion years old. It absorbs all sound.

So, no one will hear you scream.

No. And everything was saying, like, when the generator when the generator kicks off you'll be in total darkness, which made me think that it does it's like on a timer. Like, you can't control it and just keep the lights on the whole time. I'm not sure. But basically it sounded like you're going to be in like a deprivation tank at some point where there's like no sound, no light, and people have described it as feeling like they cease to exist. So, let me show you.

[gasps]

That gave me like a stomach ache.

It's not a bad setup.

Oh, look at the colorful lights.

Yeah.

It feels very retro.

Mhm.

It also kind of reminds me in college when people would It was always boys.

Yeah, I was going to say it looks like a boy's college dorm room.

Yeah, or like when they would put

50:00

someone in the garage.

Yes.

The garage into a room. Yeah.

the hauntings

Now, there have been several gas guests who have not been able to stay the whole night because it is haunted.

Mhm.

The most common report is that rocks are thrown through the room.

So, it's like dangerous.

Bigfoot?

[laughter]

I don't know.

I mean, possibly Bigfoot might be lurking through the cave systems. Maybe.

Invisible, just in there with you.

Yeah.

One guest described a rock hitting the headboard with such force it woke them from a dead sleep.

Thank god it didn't hit their head.

It's like targeted.

Yes.

After the Grand Canyon Caverns appeared on an episode of Ghost Adventures, Zach is Where have they not been?

Yeah.

They also Zach and Aaron said that there were rocks thrown at them. There were unexplained noises recorded throughout the investigation. And this checks out with what guests have experienced. They say Guests have said that when staying in the suite there are shadow figures that move along the walls.

And this place is already dark, so

Yeah.

Ugh.

Like darker than dark shadow figures.

51:00

The sound of distant rhythmic chatting, whispers near the bed, people are hearing their names called out. They get the feeling of being watched, and even the apparition of a mine worker standing near the elevator doors.

Is he confused? He like thinks he's back in his mine because this wasn't a mine.

No.

Huh.

That's interesting cuz like nearby there's also I think you mentioned it, like the guy with the top hat.

Yeah.

Like there's there's a lot of stuff that's like in the vicinity, but in the actual suite

of the cave system

this is what is experienced.

Well, we don't know how ghosts work. Are they Are they able to like travel? Because Okay, Grand Canyon made of rock. This is a lot of crystals in this specific cavern.

Yep.

Paranormal energy Like is it all interconnected? Like can they travel through it? I don't know we don't know how it works.

Underground ghosts?

Why not?

Why not? So you guys tell us, would you travel to the Grand Canyon? Would you float down the Colorado float is a is a

52:00

polite word. Would you

lazy river down the Colorado River?

[laughter]

This is not Volcano Bay.

Canyon Cavern Suite.

I Yeah, no.

[laughter]

I don't think I would. It's cool. I think I would want to go down there and see it.

Yeah. And not for the paranormal. Like the paranormal piece I could handle.

No, but just like from like the isolation.

Yeah. Being underground.

Yeah. There was one thing that Nick and I had done when we went to South Africa where we it was like the coolest thing. I think I talked about on the podcast, but we did a safari and one of the nights we got dropped off by our safari guides and stayed in like a literal tree house with a drawbridge to get to it so that like animals couldn't climb up to um but it was like open not open roof like you had like a tarp almost but like you could see the night sky.

So scary though.

And and you have a radio. You have no cell service. You literally have a high-powered radio that you have to keep off unless there's an emergency and that's the only contact with the actual lodge that we were staying at. But it

53:00

was so cool. But I would never do it underground.

No. Like there's no escape.

Yeah. It's wild.

Also you get down there via an elevator? What happens if the elevator if something happens in the elevator? That's not the easiest thing to fix.

No.

You're trapped in the caves?

Gertie couldn't even get out. What do you think you're going to do?

And Gertie was 2,000 lbs.

What if Gertie's the one throwing rocks?

Oh. Aw, her little spirit's just going around scratching and trying to do things.

She's throwing rocks.

She's tossing trying to get herself out. Her bob. The bobcat.

I do feel bad for her and Bob.

Me, too.

And and Glenn and Bessie.

Yeah.

Or maybe just Bessie. Or maybe just Glenn. We don't know.

There's a lot. There are a million more stories to tell about the Grand Canyon, but

We'll revisit it another time. I also feel like we could do a whole Reddit episode about weird things that happen in the Grand Canyon.

doing a whole encounters too from our inbox.

We could do a whole podcast.

a whole podcast.

Pivot, just Grand Canyon season.

Do you have a listener?

54:00

I do have a listener story and this

listener story

one's a creepy one. It's about a red-eyed creature in the Grand Canyon or red-eyed man sighting is what it's called. This is from our listener Grace, she/her. Hi, I've been a listener for a few months now and your podcast is my go-to for noise for eating or crafting.

Noise.

Yeah.

I like it.

I like it. My name is Grace, she/her, you can share my name and everything. So my grandma, my dad's mom, has a story from childhood that I never listened to from her perspective until very recently. The way she spoke about it so delicately freaked me out. And I've heard this story from my dad countless of times by now, but hearing it from her and watching her relive it gave me chills. And I'm not one to usually get so freaked out by monster stories, but this one, I figured it's worth worth mentioning. So my grandma took my dad and my uncle to the Grand Canyon when they were around 15 years old. They were walking on the trail right along the edge. The boys were just a few meters behind her when all of a sudden,

55:00

my grandma sees this tall, dark clothed man with a wide top hat. She knew he was staring at her. She could see his face and she described it as decayed and sunken in. She described his eyes as dark red and full of evil.

Oh.

She ordered her sons to come to her and then had them walk the rest of the trail with her holding hands. This man followed them the entire way.

[sighs and gasps]

She got really clammy from this point of the story on. She said she had such a gut feeling that if they got too close to the edge, something bad would happen. Like he would run up to them and push them off. Every few minutes, she asked my dad and uncle if they could see the man, and neither of them ever could. What? My dad is sure he would have noticed that there was a man in a black trench coat in the middle of the desert.

Yeah, with glowing red eyes.

Mhm. But she swears she saw it. She says that she feared that acknowledging the figure outright would be a catalyst.

56:00

Wow.

They walked until they were able to find a new crowd, and this crowd grew, which made my grandma feel safer. So they all sat on a bench. She sat with either of the boys on either side of her, and after a few minutes, she felt the figure walk past them behind the bench. She said she could feel him move so closely behind him that he could have touched them. Kind of how you can feel someone reading over your shoulder even if you didn't see them or hear them walk past. Once she felt he was far enough away from them, she turned, and sure enough, she could not see him anywhere. No one else in the crowd seemed to be disturbed. She still did not let go of her sons' hands until they were back at the car, and even then, she said she didn't feel safe until they were back in Missouri. Now, the story is terrifying enough to hear it from her, but she added something that she had never told my dad. A few years later, she was working at a child care abuse rehabilitation facility. A coworker took a nap in one of the break rooms that had a couch, and the coworker later woke up with a gut feeling, and then claimed to have seen a figure standing beside the couch. That

57:00

figure's description? A man in full black apparel, top hat, unnatural eyes, and a decayed, sunken-in face standing right over her.

Ugh. The decayed, sunken-in face just makes it so much worse.

Grandma didn't say how that coworker immediately reacted, but she did say that the coworker never slept in the building again and never went into that specific break room again. And my grandma had never told this coworker or anyone outside of the family about her experience at the Grand Canyon.

Oh. Well, that's upsetting because it's like, is this thing following Grandma or are there just many of these types of entities everywhere?

Yeah.

Well, I don't know. Cuz there are many encounters in the Grand Canyon with like a man with a top hat. There's also a lot of flesh pedestrians. Like

But the top hat man isn't supposed to be evil, is he?

Well, there's one that's at a hotel.

Yeah.

But then there are others.

Right.

And it kind of remind I don't know. It does feel like death a bit. Okay. Here's a spin.

but I was like but he's not wearing a cloak.

not Grim Reaper. But here's the spin.

58:00

Okay. Grandma has two sons with her.

Yeah.

They're 15. They're maybe a little bit behind her. Are they kicking rocks?

Oh.

joking around? Are they messing with each other and getting too close to the edge?

Not being the most respectful of the land.

Or or just being reckless and like in danger. And so this entity appeared to instill fear in Grandma so much so that she would protect her children.

Oh, yeah.

Hold onto them.

Everyone hold hands.

And keep them safe. Sometimes fear instill safety.

That's true.

But I can't answer to the coworker seeing the same type of entity.

I'll never forget the day that I was on the Cliffs of Moher and someone was just like letting their It's raining and it's wet. And you're on the edge of like hundreds of [clears throat] feet.

And there's a like 6-year-old boy who's just running running down that like little slippery stone dirt path. Right on the edge. No one's saying anything.

That's crazy.

Yeah. I think about him a lot. I'm like I hope he survived that day.

59:00

And I hope he survives other encounters with

[laughter]

edges.

And ledges.

No, that's one thing that like taking kids to places like this I just I hardly trust myself there because it is so you take one wrong step. You step on a loose piece of rock.

Right.

You slip. You fall. And it's not like oh you're falling down a little hill and you get a boo-boo on your booty.

Oh, shoot. You broke your ankle.

No, you're you're dead. You're dead.

And everyone just watched you die.

[sighs and gasps]

So that's the Grand Canyon.

[laughter]

And that's life.

What a joy-filled couple episodes we chose.

into the center of the earth that we just took.

[laughter]

Kind of.

Our anniversary, we're like, "Yay, our podcast! These places will kill you."

It's kind of our whole podcast. That's our vibe.

Yeah, but

Oh my god, can I tell you like the real warnings of today? Can I tell you the best compliment I've ever received the other day?

Oh.

You know like that one guy saying that

he scared him?

Did I tell you about this?

Well, I'm thinking about the one on tour.

Oh, it's that It's literally the same idea. Okay, so I joined Raya or I joined

1:00:00

like a dating app, right? And I I want to be clear about who I am, so I have the picture of me with like Carrie blood on my face eating a sandwich.

have the Samara one, too?

I deleted that one. I was like, I think one's enough.

Okay.

Yeah, but I have that.

You showed me originally and there were there were quite a few costume photos.

Yes.

Which I thought was great.

Yeah, but still on brand. So I have that photo like like the Carrie blood dripping on my face and I'm eating a sandwich. And someone messaged me and was like I'll read it. You're not supposed to screenshot things on Raya, but I did because it was I was like, "This is memorable."

Does it tell the other person that you screenshotted it?

a warning. No, like Raya gives you a warning.

Oh, wow.

Hey Sabrina, you're really pretty but kind of scary. And I said, "That's the best compliment I've ever

That is the nicest thing anyone has ever said to

So I just feel like that's kind of like our energy.

I said I want to instill a little bit of fear.

Yeah, as you should. Did they respond?

Yeah, but he's in Colorado, like I'm not going to I have no interest.

That's a weird thing. I like That's a

1:01:00

weird thing about Raya.

I agree. Anyway, um I think that embodies like I think our podcast energy.

Yeah.

We're approachable, we're fun, we're like girly pops in some ways, and then we're ghouly pops in a lot of ways.

But also sometimes, yeah, you leave a little terrified.

Yeah.

Whether we do it or you do it to yourselves, it's being done to you. You're invited. Give us 9 more years. Yeah, please give us all your lives.

[laughter]

We'll collect them. We are we're little soul collectors. keep you safe. Yes, we'll protect you. Don't run on the edge of the Grand Canyon. Or Sven will haunt you. Yeah. Sven, you have a lot of responsibility. If you do though, and you should perish you you do end up perishing there. Um If you do find yourself If you do die, if you do find yourself dying The one bright side is there might be a party in the afterlife there. Yeah, but if you survive a paranormal encounter there, please email it to us. I got to eat ice. I'm like I'm going to pass out. I'm so

1:02:00

hot. We'll wrap up. Thank you everyone for joining us. We love you very much and again, we're so grateful for everyone joining us on this amazing journey of 9 years of our podcast and I'm grateful to be doing this with you.

[laughter]

Sorry. Also very un-grand for us. We're not professional.

[laughter]

Um What are you saying about me? I said we, not just you. But it was about me. As you're chewing ice. I'm sure I'm sorry. We have episodes one week early and ad-free on Patreon plus bonus episodes plus campfire stories where you can come share your ghost stories with us live every Tuesday. We have book club, witch class, so many other fun things on Patreon. Mhm. And thank you to Jamie Ryan who edits and produces our podcast. Honestly, MVP of this business because we would struggle. I don't think this podcast would exist without Jamie. Definitely not the amount of content or the quality of the sound. No, I've I've literally said to Jamie like you can't leave us. No. I mean I don't think she a

1:03:00

possibility. think she has any intention to, but I was like what would we do without her? The podcast would end. Yeah. We'll see how long Jamie wants to do this and then that will be We are haunting her.

[laughter]

We'll work Yeah, so Anyway, thank you everyone. We love you very very And we will see you on the other side.

Very smooth.