CONSPIRACY | The Philadelphia Experiment | Time Travel, Government Secrets & Heated Rivalry (Ep 358)

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men were fused with the ship.

[gasps]

A literal bridge was created between World War II and the 1980s, between Philadelphia and Montauk.

It's

It's so wild. But how did this conspiracy even begin? How do we know about the Philadelphia experiment?

Very spooky.

Hi.

Hey.

This is Two Girls One Ghost.

Two Girls One Ghost.

We are your ghostesses. That is Corinne.

Hello.

I'm Sabrina.

Hello.

And um we've got stories for you today. I do want to shout out real quick because a podcast has come out that you and I are both obsessed with. And if you like aliens, I think you'll like it,

1:00

too. Hi, Strange. The second season just came out. I mean, I saw

into the room with people who like we just research and talk about, but like they're in person.

Truly. And like I saw a lot of the behind-the-scenes of like how much work went into it, like Payne literally went to the Milan UFO convention, spoke to so many experts, so many whistleblowers, literally went to like the outskirts of Manchester, UK to go speak to someone who literally as a child witnessed the whole alien experience that like 12 school kids experienced it and saw it.

Wait, do I have this coming up on my list?

You might.

Hold on cuz I have an alien one that I wanted to cover that I have coming up. Oh, no, no, no. Sorry. I pivoted. There's a Bigfoot one coming up.

[laughter]

I was like, I just planned this last week. But no, I went the other direction.

Oh, the Broadhaven School UFO incident in Wales.

I remember hearing about that.

Yeah.

Like literally talked to

So wild.

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Oh, so good.

good.

I mean, I listen to all of the Tenderfoot TV stuff. It's

It's so well done.

You know what else was so well done? And Sabrina, I fully blame you.

What? Blame me?

Yes. Because I'm I'm like a broken

No.

a few weeks ago in podcasting world, in real world this was like 6 days ago. You mentioned Heedan Rivalry.

And are you watching?

So I finished it.

You finished it? I thought we were going to watch it together.

It's only six episodes.

Okay, well, how do you watch the first episode and not go to the second?

It was a like middle of the night binge, you know, like Noah still wakes up in the middle of the night.

Yeah, like half of it was watched at 2:00 a.m. I thought Well, I told you this before. I thought it was about two boys with big booties banging, and it is not. It has ripped my soul apart.

It's a beautiful love story.

I balled my eyes out for the past 2 days cuz I finished 2 days ago. All I do in my spare time is watch clips like on Tik

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Tok of it or watch other people reacting to it or other people's analysis of it, and I'm obsessed, and I'm really upset that there's not more to watch, and I'm like truly like I'm like my heart I know they're actors, but it doesn't feel that way cuz it was so I'm going to start crying. It was so good.

[laughter]

I'm broken inside, and so now I'm going to read all of the books because I can't not have more.

[laughter]

Oh my gosh.

I'm like I'm I love this for you, though. [laughter] I feel the same way like

She's actually crying. Like if you're not watching the YouTube, that's fine. You can She's full like tears in her eyes.

for these men.

[laughter]

This is why I don't like watching romance. It hurts me.

This is how I feel when we do heartwarming stories.

Oh my god.

I watched episode one. I know I was just mad at you for watching the whole thing by yourself, [laughter] but I watched episode one and two, but I was doing my paint by numbers and I was like, "No, I need to give it my full attention." Plus there's a lot of Russian.

Oh my gosh, you have to watch every single second cuz like it's all about

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their facial expressions and they're so freaking

Yeah.

Tears are falling down for instance.

like truly this this show broke me.

[laughter]

But yeah.

on with their lives after watching it?

There's another show.

seen a show like it.

[laughter]

And this is why I like the horror genre because

Oh my god.

It doesn't make me cry. Anyhow.

[laughter]

Anyhow, last week we left you

people feel the same way? Like what?

I mean that's why it's been such a huge show. I think it really it had everything people want. It is the big booties and sex.

Damn.

also like a genuine love story.

Yes.

The Philadelphia Experiment

Anyhow. Last week we left you on a little bit of a cliffhanger.

Yeah, you sent me down rabbit hole because I had no intention originally on researching this. And then you were like the Montauk experiment has a lot to do with the Philadelphia experiment, so you should look into the Philadelphia

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experiment.

A little handoff two-parter episode situation.

this is almost like a weird one because it's like I'm the prequel now.

Right. But based on timelines

is it all happening at once anyway? It's very Stranger Things which makes sense with the whole like Montauk experiment influencing

inspiring the story of Stranger Things.

Yeah. All righty, let us begin.

testing invisibility

It is 1943. World War II. The US Navy's USS Eldridge, a Cannon class destroyer escort warship loaded with sailors, suddenly vanished into thin air. Moments later, the ship reappeared miles away in Norfolk, Virginia. Those on board injured, disoriented, some were said to be completely missing. Terrifying. But this story is more than just a disappearing ship. It's about a man who maybe was losing his mind, a government who was definitely playing with fire, and a literal rip in time that supposedly leads right back to Montauk.

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It's It's so wild.

[snorts]

I'm actually upset that there's not more information on this cuz it's actually kind of a short

Yeah.

blurb.

Well, I think it's one of those and I don't know all the details of the Philadelphia Experiment, but very similar to the Montauk Project, it's like where is the hard evidence and the lack of it makes it one of those things where it's like a little lot of like conjecture.

There's essentially no hard evidence.

Yes.

But, it's also tough because you're talking about This is why conspiracy theories are so easy to get into, especially when it involves like the government or secret testing or whatever because they're like, "Oh, well, there's no record of the ship. Like, the ship was logged in a different port at this time." And it's like,

Was it?

Well, how easy is it just to write on a piece of paper that the ship was somewhere else?

Right.

As if that doesn't happen every single day.

number up. It's a lie. [laughter] They're lying to us.

and we're telling you the truth.

Also, the way you described that, just like the little intro, made me really badly want to play the game of Battleship. And hear that sound.

Oh, yeah.

Destroyer sunk.

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That is [laughter] the heart racing when someone's getting way too close to your ship.

I have seen people do it with um they'll be eating sushi, but they put like a board in between them and you make like sushi ships.

You could eat your sushi when you sink someone's

ship.

Yes, that's such a good version. Yeah.

I love that.

All right, back to the story. The world The world The world is in year 1943, so the height of World War II, and the US Navy is very desperate for an edge against Nazi Germany. Sailors are working on their ship, the USS Eldridge, which is docked at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. So, we're in Pennsylvania here. The ship is wrapped in these massive copper coils. And this is like part of There's like almost like two versions of the story here and one involves which I'm like not going to get into like this version of the conspiracy where part of the testing was said to be like there's some sort of like theory on gravity and Einstein and all these like magnetic things within the ocean and blah blah

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blah and like manipulating them. I'm not going to get into that part cuz I quite literally couldn't comprehend it. So.

I don't want to butcher it.

Confession, only passed physics because the German exchange student sat in front of me and I copied her answers.

Well, there we go. You know I don't think I took physics. Did you have to? Was it required?

Uh yes, I believe so. And my teacher was so cool. Like literally his classroom was a like one of those domes. So he could like project the stars on it. And he did really cool experiments, but my brain just could not comprehend it.

Yeah.

It's hard.

It is hard. So sailors are working on the USS Eldridge. The ship is wrapped in these massive copper coils. And this is basically like a new technology that's being tested to help fight in World War II. And it's to not just get better sonar or like an understanding of like where their ship is in space, but the Navy's actually looking for a cloak of invisibility.

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I'm sorry.

They're trying to make their ship invisible. And this is called Project Rainbow. It's July now of 1943 and the sailors working on this ship in the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard are working on a seemingly normal day. Except this day there's going to be some testing going on. This ship which has been prepared to be actively experimented on with this new technology. They're going to test the piece of technology that would hopefully make the ship naked or naked. It would

[laughter]

strip them of their clothes. To the naked eye would make it invisible. So they're not trying to make the ship like vanish and dematerialize. It's like truly like a cloaking mechanism. So, the copper wires are wrapped around the ship. There's a strange smell in the air that starts to come with it. I'm sure the copper is contributing to that.

Mhm.

And the hope is that the large electrical generators that they have around are going to work with the coil to bend light, and the light can be

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refracted around the ship making it appear It's like a optical illusion. So, making it appear invisible because the light is like refracting around it and creating the sort of cloak.

Interesting. Okay. Can I propose a better way to do this?

Sure.

Make a ship that is completely made out of double-sided window or like one-sided window glass.

Oh, yeah.

So, that it reflects the ocean and the surroundings, but we can see out.

Yeah, like the aviators that we all wear in the summer.

Yeah.

That's a great idea. Way better than that.

I thought you were going to say paint the ship to make it look [laughter] like it's like a sunny

It's like a cloudy day and it's painted as sunny and you're like, "Why is there a blip of sunny [laughter] sky coming through?" No, but that's a great idea.

Thank you.

Probably expensive.

Yeah, and

And probably way more

breakable.

Yeah. Either way, they weren't thinking this. They were thinking like so far beyond [laughter] our cloaking

thinking smarter.

Yeah. So, on this day, things are a little bit different because they're going to turn all the technology on and

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hope that this light refraction theory actually works.

Mhm.

So, there are men on the ship. There are sailors, crew members on the ship at the time of this happens. And for the first time since attempting to manipulate the ship's visibility, the USS Eldridge disappears. A pea green fog appeared out of nowhere in the place of where the ship was.

Mhm.

And if you looked down, I guess at this point I think there are some pictures where like the ship is actually like lifted up, but apparently for this experiment, it was like sitting in the water docked, and where the hole would be, you couldn't see the ship but you could see that the water was compressed. So, it's like

Like as if the ship was still there.

there was a dent there. So, the ship was sitting there, but in place of it was just a green fog and you couldn't see the ship at all.

Which what makes me wonder how that's connected to like the green flash that people say happens when the sun sets.

Mhm. Oh, yeah. [clears throat]

Like is there some conspiracy another conspiracy there?

But like again, like it has to do with like light.

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Yeah. So,

perhaps a moment or two passes and then the ship returns exactly as it was before. Holy the experiment worked. Or it seems to have worked, right? In a way. Green fog is still, you know,

still something.

[laughter]

But you could think of it like a weird Could be like a weird seaweed

Right.

thing or dead carcass.

The seaweed's breathing and the breath is gross. So, [snorts] the crew members that were on board were mostly unscathed, but they were a little bit confused and everyone kind of reported like an intense nausea that came with it. So, exactly what happened in those moments weren't really known because the people on board like it wasn't like they went somewhere else or like had any memory of what was going on. It was just like a couple seconds passed. Sure.

It's quick.

Oh god, we feel terrible. Testing has to continue, right? Like they had some success and also time is of the essence. There's the threat of Nazi Germany looming over everyone. So, they're like let's get this thing going. Let's

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perfect it so we can actually like take this ship or this technology and apply it to all of the US fleet. How incredible if you just got to like work invisible under like in an invisible cloak.

Right. That's literally what people are working on all the time with airplanes and just like the different technology where it's like

Right.

you reflect the technology that's supposed to

It's a great military tactic.

Exactly. I wish there were zero wars, but

people are evil. Yeah.

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the disappearance of the USS Eldridge

October 1943. So, it's just a few months later.

Mhm.

The final test. Similar to before, the

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USS Eldridge is docked at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. Crew members are on board. The invisibility technology is turned on. And the USS Eldridge is expected once more to disappear or cloak itself.

Mhm.

And it does, just like it did in July. Only this time, there's not green fog. Rather, there's a flash of a blue-green light.

Well, I'm curious so what changed between July and October? Like did they like enhance the technology? Were they trying to get rid of that green fog? Like did something change?

I don't know.

Probably.

And similar to Montauk experiment, anyone who worked on it probably doesn't remember. So, the ship vanished within this blue-green light and there was no depression in the water. So, it didn't appear like the ship was there, just not visible. The ship was gone completely.

Which if you're working on this project, you're probably like, "Oh my gosh, we did it. Like how amazing."

Right.

You can't see it at all. For a second.

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What you're not assuming is that the ship appears 200 miles away in that moment in Norfolk, Virginia. Men aboard the ship SS Andrew Furuseth notice a bright flash of green-blue. And when they look over, suddenly, having appeared out of absolutely nowhere is this giant warship, the USS Eldridge. The men on the SS Andrew Furuseth are staring. They're confused. They're like, "What in the hell is going on?" And they see the ship. It seems like anyone who's on board is like there's some sort of commotion, but before anyone could react to try to possibly help the sailors that appeared to be in distress on the USS Eldridge, the ship disappears again.

What?

It then rematerialized back in its original spot in the port in the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. Only this time, things are greatly different. In July, the crew members just were a little bit confused and felt super nauseous. This time in October, the ship

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and crew members had dematerialized, rematerialized 200 miles away, dematerialized again, and rematerialized exactly where they had been before.

Yeah, if you've watched The Fly, you know it doesn't always work out when you come back together, you look a little different. Have you seen The Fly?

No.

Oh, it's sick.

What is it?

It's basically this guy who thinks he invents like a teleportation machine and he kind of does, but a fly goes in the machine with him. And so when he rematerializes, he like his DNA is part fly.

Okay, that's like literally exactly what happens here, basically.

Really?

Yeah.

So,

[laughter]

the ship because they teleported

Yeah.

and like seemingly to to do that, your atoms have to come apart and go back together. The crew was not okay. They basically were like vaporized for a moment. So, some people do appear okay. They're like full-bodied people walking around super disoriented. People were describing it

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as like it seemed like they had the bends and couldn't come out of it.

Uh-huh.

But the most horrific detail, similar to what you were just talking about with the fly, is that men were fused with the ship.

[gasps]

So, because the atoms of the ship and the atoms of the people on board all dematerialized at the same time, things got mixed up. And when it rematerialized, some of the sailors had their arms growing out of the steel hull, some had like a torso coming out of the deck. It was all mixed up.

Yes. And like they were just basically fused and had body parts missing and still alive, screaming in agony.

That is horrifying.

Uh-huh. Some people, I think, were definitely dead.

Yeah, I was going to say.

And so this is referred to within this conspiracy as molecular interference. Which is a really nice way of saying people were like sliced in half and fused to the to the ship. Physical ship. Yes. So, the men who were walking around, who kind of like appeared to be

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super disoriented and out of it, they never recovered. It was like their minds were completely jumbled. It was just mashed potato in there.

Right. Nothing No recovery could happen.

Like the worst version of a lobotomy.

Exactly. Absolutely horrific. such a nightmare. And after this incident, because it was so terrible, and like clearly they had no idea what they were actually messing with, the program and the testing was shut down. Or so the conspiracy goes.

Mhm.

behind the conspiracy theory

But how did this conspiracy even begin? How do we know about the Philadelphia Experiment? So that's where we're going to go now.

I'm also very curious at what point, cuz like when we talked about the Montauk Project last week, there was a point where and it was like the day that they ended up like destroying destroying the Montauk Project, they saw the ship materialize in that like vortex. Like I wonder if it's that day in October.

I don't think it is.

Oh, okay.

Well, I'm not sure.

Cuz they saw the two men who were on the ship.

I think actually right, I think it was the October event.

Right. Which makes me then wonder about

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time, like Montauk Project almost had to happen in order for the events of many years like 40 years before to happen.

Was the Philadelphia Experiment successful at all with anything that they were physically doing, or had they just the combination something with the coils and like whatever they were doing with the energy tapped into this thing, and the control's actually within Montauk 40 years later.

Mind.

[sighs and gasps]

Unable to comprehend.

Yeah.

So this whole thing starts with a man named Morris Jessup. He was an astronomer, he was super smart, he wrote books about UFOs, did a ton of research, and he published his findings.

Mhm.

And a person who got their hands on one of these books and found it super interesting was a man named Carlos Miguel Allende, who later goes by Carl Allen. So Carl reads the book, and then he anonymously sends this book to the US Office of Naval Research with a note that says, "Happy Easter."

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What a

The Office of Naval Research Well, it's so weird. So the Office of Naval Research is like, "Okay, we just got like a copy of some random guy's book." They open it up, but in the margins are like a ton of different annotations. It looks like three different people have annotated in the margins and they're making commentary on the things that were discussed. So, there's a lot of discussion about like different alien races, propulsion for flying saucers, how close some of these theories are to real alien technology, and there were quite a few comments about the Philadelphia Experiment and like comparing things to what happened there.

The three people who were annotating after the fact

that this is sent to the Naval Office. Okay.

The three people who were annotating had called themselves Jemi or Jemini, Mr. A, and Mr. B. Today, there actually printed copies of this. It's called the Varo edition, so you can get a version of this. Like obviously, you don't see Well, not obviously. I wish they had their actual like handwriting.

Oh, I thought it was

a printed typed version of the

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annotations from this book. Um but you can see what was or supposedly what was included. It's believed that the people who were commenting in these margins were not people at all. They were alien visitors, alien refugees, aliens living amongst us.

Just doing their homework, annotating the book

Mhm.

for school assignment

that Carl somehow has.

Huh.

So Morris Jessup, he writes this book about aliens and UFOs. Then Carl Allen sends a copy of this book with alien commentary to the US Office of Naval Research. That's where we are right now.

Yeah.

Shortly after this, Carl starts to send letters to Morris, the author of the book. And he's basically warning him that he should stop discussing certain aspects of the book because it is so close to being accurate to like the true technology

Oh.

and understandings of how things work, especially levitation of UFOs and that sort of thing. The operation of UFOs and

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like travel and whatnot.

Doesn't that kind of remind you of last week's episode, how like Preston Nichols was starting to do things that were very similar to what he was doing on the Montauk project? Like was this Jessup guy

It's like how does he know about the project?

and his memory was erased?

Right.

But he's still on that same path.

Possibly. Who knows? We don't actually have an answer for this one. There's no theory here. But basically Carl is saying that the levitation of UFOs and and things within that matter are getting way too close to what is real and it's extremely dangerous and there's proof of how dangerous trying to put some of these theories into practice can be for humans and that it has been attempted and went horribly wrong once before. He Carl then writes about a scientist named Franklin Reno who experimented, took this knowledge that Morris is getting so close to like truly understanding and had applied it to attempt to cloak a warship. The USS Eldridge in October of 1943. So Carl's

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now saying like this has already happened and it went horribly wrong, so stop digging and trying to understand. How does Carl know about it?

How does Carl know about it?

So Carl claims that he was on the SS Andrew Furuseth the ship that witnessed

the USS Eldridge rematerialize or appear out of nowhere 200 miles away. He saw the entire thing. He saw the sailors coming out of nowhere. He saw the disappearing flash. He saw just everything and how disoriented everybody was and that gravely concerned him.

Mhm.

So Morris is getting these letters and he's like, what? Who is this guy? I'm close. Wait, and what happened in Philadelphia? Tell me more.

Mhm. So now they're pen pals basically. They're writing back and forth.

this.

Carl responds by sending a newspaper article from Philly which is nowhere to be found in actual archives. It got didn't exist

because the government erased it.

Yeah, you can't like go to the library and be like what was happening back in

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1943 whatever in Philly. So he basically was like here is the article that we that was used to cover up the incident although you can't find the article today. And he also suggested that memories of the event had to be recovered. So if anyone wanted to remember what happened they had to be recovered essentially saying that people were made to forget like the Montauk project.

Mhm.

Exactly. So these letters are exchanged a few times and to my knowledge I don't believe that Morris knew that Carl had sent an annotated version of his book an alien annotated version of his book to the office of Naval Research. At least until the office called him up and asked him to come in.

Uh-oh.

They were super curious about this book and what he knew and if he knew anything about these annotations which he didn't but there was so one of the three beings who was annotating on the side their handwriting looked super familiar. So he then brings in his notes from Carl.

Mhm.

And it's a match. So one of those alien beings the one who called himself Mr. A

26:00

was actually Carl Allen.

This is like a scientific Pretty Little Liars.

[laughter]

So there were two officers who were like super interested in everything that was going on. It was Captain Sidney Sherby and Commander George Hoover. But instead of being super interested in like a possible alien contact or like the magic of the incident that happened with this disappearing ship they were mostly interested in the psychology of the person who wrote the annotations so Carl.

Mhm.

And they were theorizing that there was like some sort of code or something that would be like a breakthrough to understand gravity control and that Carl maybe was like a spy from another country. Like they were very much like we are in World War coming off of World War II.

There's foreign powers like people are advancing technology. We don't know what other people know and they were thinking that like there was some

Yeah, we're moving into Cold War. Like there's

Exactly. Like code breaking. It's huge in the Cold War.

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Yeah. So, they're worried about that. But basically, it seems like Carl is saying beware and Morris is the only person who takes up real interest or worry

Mhm.

in what to beware of.

Right. Like if he never got that letter of beware, don't keep doing this, like he wouldn't have been as curious about it. It's like when someone tells you you can't, it makes you want to do it more.

Well, now [laughter] suddenly what do you want to do?

What happens?

Push the red button.

Yeah.

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hoax or coverup?

So, in the years to come, Morris Jessup would try to dig more and he actually would publish more work on UFOs, but him being able to like find information and publish became really hard. It was almost like whatever happened here like thwarted his momentum in a way. And so it was hard for him to get things published. It was hard for him to just

29:00

like basically have any luck in terms of work and his work wasn't being received in the same way. He had also published a book that was like trying to talk about the Philadelphia experiment and getting more into that. But in the end it was just like he was having a lot of issues in his personal life and so basically he was just not having the life that he had wanted. And unfortunately [clears throat] on April 30th of 1959 Morris died by suicide in Florida. Which not to add more conspiracy, but was it suicide or

very first thought. I was like, oh, someone who's getting too close to the answers suddenly dies by suicide? Yeah.

Suspicious.

in a lot of these cases. Carl Allen would claim some 12 years later that he wrote all of the annotations. So he was Mr. A, he was Mr. B, he was um I can't [clears throat] remember the name of the other person. Who was it? It was like

Didn't have a Mr.

Yeah, Jimmy.

What a what a Why not Mr. A, B, and C?

Yeah, [laughter] I don't know.

30:00

So he claims that he was he was everyone and he did this to scare Morris Jessup from researching more.

But then he made him want to research more. Interesting tactic.

Numerous people and officers over the years had tried to get more out of Carl Allen, but he was largely super elusive. He was difficult to track down.

[clears throat]

And when people did find him, he was even harder to get an answer out of. And his family actually had I think they like sent over to authorities like some work that he did or like just some like papers and stuff where like he was annotating and and scribing a bunch of things and basically it was came to the conclusion that Carl Allen was a brilliant mind, but also a brilliant hoaxer. That he was like super caught up in delusions, that he was struggling with mental illness, that he was really smart, and so that's why a lot of the stuff made sense.

It's a good good story to spin.

Yes. Like it was almost like when people are suffering from schizophrenia and they like suddenly there's like these like giant whiteboards with like mathematical problems.

Well, like some of it is really like

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advanced and makes sense.

this come from? Yes, and then a lot of it isn't.

Yeah.

That's essentially what was said to be happening to Carl Allen. So, a lot of people are like, "Okay, well, this was a complete hoax." They reference the official logbooks from the Navy that shows that the USS Eldridge was nowhere near Philly in October of 1943, that it was in New York, and then it was in the Bahamas. So, it was logged in those two places. But again, it's like

How easy, especially back in like the 1940s, to like fake documents. Nothing's online. Nothing's like dated digitally.

Yeah, and if everyone's made to forget, what would it matter?

It's like the um Florence Pugh, Harry Styles movie, where it's like they're given their own backstory, and that's what you believe.

What is it? Dearest um

Oh, dear darling.

Something darling.

Dearest darling, dear darling, I don't know. Oh, darling.

[laughter]

Oh, my darling.

So, yeah, it was in New York and then the Bahamas, so it wasn't anywhere near Philly, it wasn't anywhere near Norfolk.

Mhm.

32:00

If you believe that the logbooks are true. Another fact

[laughter]

Another fact to point out is that the Office of Naval Research wasn't even established until 1946, and this is apparently who was conducting the tests like within the US Navy.

Maybe it wasn't officially in existence.

what I said.

[laughter]

I was like, "Unsanctioned project, declassified project." Who's to say that they didn't give it a name at three years later?

Yeah. Right.

Yeah.

[laughter]

They're like, "Now it's time to bring this on the books."

Right. Now that everyone's fused to the boards of the ship that we need to retire.

Damn.

So, Project Rainbow, which is what was the title given to project or what we now know as the Philadelphia Experiment, it also does not appear in any legitimate records. Surprise, surprise. [gasps] Shocking. Rainbow apparently was [clears throat] a term used in war planning by the US, but it had nothing to do with teleportation or cloaking or testing in a Philadelphia shipyard. So, people are like, "Oh, could that just be like some confused thing? Or did someone

33:00

read a document, not understand it? Or what?" Anyway, many skeptics have also pointed out, and this is similar to what we learned last week in the Montauk Project, that the story largely leans on one person, so Carl Allen. And there's not much information beyond what Carl has essentially provided.

Right.

Like there's other witnesses and other people pulled in, but like but it's coming from Carl as the original source.

Yeah. Right. Huh.

But someone else did come forward years later, in the 1980s, a man named Al Bielek comes forward.

Who we briefly talked about in the Montauk Project.

Uh-huh. He claims his name, when he comes forward, is Edward Cameron, and that he was on the USS Eldridge at the time of the supposed Philadelphia Experiment testing. He claims that when the green fog came in when he was on the Eldridge, he got scared, and so he jumped off the ship. And when he jumped, he didn't hit the water. Instead, he fell through a wormhole, and he landed in 1983

34:00

in Montauk, Long Island. He says the reason that the Eldridge disappeared is because in 1943, the experiment somehow locked on to the 1983 experiment in Montauk, and it ripped a hole in the fabric of time, like a literal bridge was created between World War II and the 1980s, between Philadelphia and Montauk. First, the Philadelphia Experiment, then the Montauk Project, inexplicably connected and possibly happening at the exact same time. And just like for the people involved with the testing on the USS Eldridge, everyone in Montauk was also made to forget. And that's it. That's the Philadelphia Experiment.

Or they died in the rematerialization of the ship.

Yeah. How crazy?

Damn.

It is wild like a conspiracy within a conspiracy. Like the two are connected. Cuz

Thank you very

35:00

You don't often hear that.

Okay, it's one of the things where it's like I can't say whether or not this either of these experiments happened. Are they possible? Absolutely. We know for a fact that the government has done experiments and testing that has been off the record to then later be declassified. So, that is possible. I also believe, like you know like that folding paper thing where you can be like this is two-dimensional and then it's like this is like four-dimensional. And like I do think there's overlaps in time and space.

Yeah.

That you could cause a fracture, but I again, going back to the not understanding how the science works, I it just is not something my brain can compute or figure out.

what it made me think of when I was uh doing this research? I think it's a Doctor Strange movie or maybe it's one of the Avengers. There's a moment where Doctor Strange or someone with the same technology opens up the like portal to jump times. And you see the USS Eldridge and all the

36:00

Love that.

guys from the Navy, the sailors like screaming on board and they're like [laughter] oops. And they

closes it back up.

Yeah.

Damn. What do you think?

[sighs and gasps]

I don't know. It's so hard hard especially because like I do believe that people who like Jessup, who had a lot of informa- like he he was a scientist, right? Like yes, he was into UFOs. Yes, he wanted to understand all of stuff. Yes, I'm sure a lot of people within his community were looking at what he was publishing and thinking that he, you know, trying to discredit him, thinking that he was on something or that he like couldn't be trusted. But like I do feel like a lot of people present good theories and are really close to certain things. And so like

Yeah.

I don't know. It like in a way it reminds me of the Men in Black where it's like people who are on the right path, something happens or someone comes into their life to ruin it. Either to discredit them, you know, or to make them go away.

To wipe them out.

I don't It's so hard. I also it's one of

37:00

those things where the way that this is described, what happened was accidental. Like they didn't intend for the ship to completely vanish and rematerialize somewhere else.

No, not at all.

So

trying to refract and bend light.

Right.

And then the other theory was just that they were trying to use coils to get around whatever like magnetic technology was being used within the waters to detect

Yeah.

So either way there was absolutely no manipulation of atoms here.

But they weren't trying to.

Yes.

So my thing is, if they accidentally did that and it didn't work out, they 100 like the government would 100% be like, well, we need to start testing this technology on a smaller scale to perfect it. Like if you could make teleportation real, the government would 100% be studying that. So is there another conspiracy where somewhere in the world the government is doing tests of teleportation? Cuz they would 100% if

38:00

that happened.

Yeah, they're not just shutting it down being like

No.

Oh, no. 15 people lost their lives.

They would just do it on a smaller scale until they could do it on a bigger scale correctly.

And then it's also confusing cuz it's like did they not have the knowledge but maybe in the '80s they were closer to it and then there was some sort of like talk between the two worlds once they were fused together? How was knowledge exchanged? Everything everywhere all at once. It's very confusing. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Both of them at the same time. Okay, I will say so going back to High Strange and Pain, his grandfather worked for Lockheed Martin. Like very like and was very very high up. Consulted with the CIA. Like did a lot of things where to the

Did he find a bunch of like documents or something from his grandpa?

So one story that Pain has told told me was his mom when she was growing up went on vacation with her dad. So it's Pain's grandfather, his mom's dad. In Florida. And before they went on the trip, her dad said, "If anyone tries to

39:00

talk to you, tell me and do not talk to them."

That is so scary.

Right. Then she came home from the beach one day and two like a man and a woman were walking out of the apartment in Florida. And when they walked in it like looked as if they had looked through everything.

the files.

what does Pain's grandfather say to Pain's mom? "They won't find what they're looking for."

The most badass response.

And then

What was he going to keep in your family home?

Right.

Why put them in danger?

And then when Pain's grandfather passed away, all of his documents, all of his research, no one knows where it went. No one.

I fully believe in the Philadelphia Experiment and the

[laughter]

Montauk Experiment cuz how the can this be happening so many times just like on such a small scale?

Right. Someone we know. The government is for sure

And remember kids, never trust the government.

Never trust. Don't trust anyone, honestly.

It's so confusing cuz it's like the

40:00

amount of levels you have to get like I feel like we say the government but it's like past the government.

No, it's like yeah.

Like I don't think the government really is truly the ones doing this and in control. There's like people that are like maybe hidden hidden within government workings. But like

Which is what So remember at the end of the Montauk project, I was saying the other guy that Preston Nichols like was working with, he and his wife fully believe it's the Illuminati. Like I think it's the same thing of needing to believe that there's something bigger than the government that's responsible for all of this.

It's just all hidden.

It's aliens.

Where Where are they putting the files?

In the tunnels.

In the cave In the cave system. [clears throat]

[laughter]

In Appalachia. No, I like I can't say for certain. I think conspiracies are fun to conjecture about.

Real. [laughter] Completely based in reality.

Corinne is like you are the most like you will buy into almost every conspiracy.

Well, I don't not believe in anything. I guess it's the thing.

Okay.

It's like anything could happen.

41:00

Yeah. Who are we to say?

happen.

[laughter]

Who are we to say? We don't know enough.

I just would never be I think it's like not in my body to like be so certain to say like this is not real or this can't be happening cuz it's like well, what? Like if we go to science

[laughter]

and like scientific method and experimenting and like finding proof and trying to like discredit or like prove your hypothesis or whatever. I have zero evidence beyond people just saying like oh well, that wouldn't happen or oh, that's a conspiracy or they don't do it that way. What actual proof and like experience do I have in my life to prove that?

Well, you don't have enough to disprove it or prove it. So, why not believe

could happen.

It could be possible.

Rula

I have done so much therapy in my life and one of the biggest and hardest parts about finding a therapist is finding one that takes your insurance.

gosh. Yes.

Which is why we're grateful for Rula. Rula partners with over 100 insurance

42:00

plans, making the average copay just $15 per session. That's real therapy from licensed therapists at a price that actually makes sense.

And Rula partners with a network of over 15,000 therapists and psychiatrists nationwide. So, this basically enables you to find your personalized solution, someone who fits you, but also takes your insurance, which is super important.

Mhm.

And Rula is committed to supporting you and staying with you every step of the way during your mental health journey.

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43:00

budget.

listener story

And what else is possible is our listeners glitching? Traveling through time? Sorry, Tiyub. Excited for us.

Mhm.

This is from our listener who would like to remain anonymous. So, let's call them

Let's call them

Mr. A.

Ooh, [laughter] Mr. A. Okay. And it's called Alternate Reality, Almost Time Slip, Backrooms, Glitch.

Oh, the backrooms.

Alternate gas station. I do not know what I experienced. Please help me.

Oh my gosh, actually wait, this this is a good question. Do you fear the backrooms more or less than a glitch in like Wrinkle in Time?

Backrooms for sure.

Yeah, me too. Cuz I think we've lived through many glitches already.

Think the Mandela effect, those are little glitches.

Right. And it's like the world is similar enough.

Yeah.

In the backrooms, monsters are coming for you and it's this never-ending labyrinth.

Yeah.

And you're probably going to die there.

I already feel crazy, so please don't use my name. I don't need people to find me and confirm it.

Aw.

44:00

But here's some details to preface this story. My husband and I were driving to our hometown in Oklahoma from the East Coast for the holidays. We were driving 21 hours because we have two dogs who are too big to fly. It's a long drive.

Mhm.

We've done this drive before, typically driving through Tennessee, but because of Hurricane Helene and the damage to I-40, we had to take a different route. We always drive straight through taking shifts to drive.

21 hours straight? Oh my god.

Whoever is slept takes the dogs to go to the bathroom while whoever drove gets gas. And someone always stays with the dogs. Meaning if we go into the gas station, we're going alone. So let's get into the story. My husband, I'll call him Jake, I guess, was driving while I was sleeping. We didn't leave until 3:00 or 4:00 p.m. so I think it was straight up overnight driving. I wake up. I think sometime around 3:00 or 4:00 a.m. The timeline of this is iffy and the only basis I'm working with are two photos I took which I'll explain later.

45:00

So I wake up to Jake stopping the car at the gas station knowing that means it's time to switch driving. I also knew I needed pods for my vape. I know disgusting habit, I'm trying to stop. But I'm leashing up the dogs and Jake stops to tell me that he would pump the gas and take the dogs to go to the bathroom because he felt like this place was a little sketchy and he told me to go inside and come straight back. Now we are somewhere in Eastern Arkansas, middle of nowhere. It is freezing and I'm very happy to not be standing outside with the dogs watching them pee freezing my butt off. I got out of the truck and immediately something doesn't feel right. Like now I knew what Jake was talking about, that this place didn't feel good. I knew I had to go do my business and get back in the truck ASAP. And the actual gas pumping area was huge, at least nine pumps with a cover over top, but only one light over each pump, like little spotlights. I try to be observant of my surroundings as I walk into the small gas station building that looked like a log cabin. Again, [clears throat] middle of nowhere, so I was shocked when

46:00

the actual rest stop area was unlocked cuz typically small town gas stations are not open 24 hours a day. Regardless, I needed to pee and I needed to buy vape pods. So, I thought I was in luck. Walking into this building, it immediately smelled musty, old, like a storage closet at your grandparents' house. I looked around and I realized this place is huge, but it's 3:00 a.m. And the neon lights that would have been on were shut off. And the back of this building was very large and very dark. Like un- unsettling.

Like I I know that we are going in the direction of a glitch because that is literally what was said in the title, but I keep thinking about like The Hills Have Eyes and House of Wax and like all of those kind of campy

And even from the show where like what is this town?

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Already weird vibes, things are strange. And then I noticed the floor is carpet. Carpet with a tile pathway leading down main aisles. Super weird. I'm greeted by

47:00

an older man who's like 60s or 70s. He has a bald head and a white beard. He quietly says hello or whatever greeting and regardless of the goosebumps this place gives me, I make my way back to the bathroom. I'm going to do my best to describe this bathroom, but I could barely understand it while I was there, so bear with me. I pull open the heavy bathroom door to see a wall 3 ft in front of the door. I turn my head to the left and there's a short hallway, but no stalls and another wall at the end. I take a few steps trying to see where to actually use the bathroom assuming I'm not supposed to just pop a squat on a floor. And in my head I go into the thought, did I just end up in the back rooms? And what the is this place? As I'm walking down, there's an opening to my right that then leads into a hallway with stalls. But this opening to the stalls was not visible from the first door. Think the movie Labyrinth where she first starts in the labyrinth and finds that wall behind the wall she was behind blending in. It is very confusing.

Like too many walls.

48:00

Yeah.

When the labyrinth wall seems just to be straight with no turns, I hope you get the picture. There are so many stalls, too many too many stalls and twists and turns to be able to fit in this building along with the food court and a gas station and snacks. It's all very weird. I quickly do my business in the first stall, run out not even bothering to wash my hands because I just needed to get out of there. And it was so clean, it smelled like an indoor pool. Now I'm back in the main area with snacks and drinks. I grab a water knowing it's my time to drive and I would need a snack. Everything looked like it had never been touched. Kind of dusty, but I pick up some Reese's Pieces and I move to the front to pay. I look for my vape pods and I see they have a wide selection of disposable vape cigarettes and dip. So I ask if they had Vuse pods, which are a common brand. He says no, but that the Shell across the street does. And now flashing back to me first getting out of the truck. When I got out, it was pitch black aside

from this gas station.

There was nothing around, no lights, no town. Honestly, I couldn't even see the highway from the gas station. So I'm

49:00

freaked out. I pay, I run out to the truck where Jake is sitting with both dogs in the car. I hopped into the car to drive and I double-check that my husband is there and both dogs are there and I didn't jump through timelines where all of a sudden my dogs and husband were gone. So now Jake, who's about to go to sleep, asks if I think he should go in and use the restroom before we start driving again. I get worried he's going to get lost in the back rooms, bathrooms, or jump realities. I say, "Nope. We can stop somewhere else and just drive away." But now here's the really strange part. As I started to write this, I started to search and search for some proof of this place. And since the drive was so long and dark, I had no clue where to start looking or what state I was even in at that point. But I am a chronic picture taker. Like I literally take pics all the time of the most random things. So I go into Snapchat and I see a photo from December 21st at 4:12 a.m. Location Brisco, Arkansas with the caption "Fighting demons." My Snapchat has auto save, so any photo taken auto saves. And then I have a picture in my camera roll,

50:00

time and exact location of a bruise on my leg because I had fallen down a flight of stairs the day before the drive. This photo was taken at 3:54 a.m. outside of Little Rock. The problem with this is we would have had to driven through Brisco before Little Rock. Brisco is an hour east of Little Rock. So like the Well, that's confusing. photos are almost backwards. Also, the photo of my leg says it was taken at a Love's and we never stopped at a Love's. I even checked my credit card statements. Not only did we not stop at a Love's, but there were no charges from Arkansas at all.

Oh.

No gas, no Reese's Pieces, which also were stale by the way. Anyway, I have no idea where we stopped. Why is the timestamp on the photo messed up or backwards? Am I missing time? Did I jump into an identical universe? And why can't I find that gas station at all? My husband says I'm reading into it too much, but I don't know. I'll see on the other side, Mr. A.

That is so weird.

51:00

Like the pictures being backwards, that is almost like confusing me more than anything else because I'm like how many of you were there? Like jumping and living in different loops. Like how did this happen?

Well, then also how are there no charges? Like it's almost like that stop never happened.

Right.

I mean her her husband knew immediately that there was something wrong.

Part of me wishes that he had gone into the to go to the bathroom. Just

What if

his experience of that building was completely different? Because from the outside it looked like a small log cabin, little like rest station, but Mr. A, she walks in and it is massive,

Mhm.

confusing, looks like like the way I'm picturing it, it's almost like a set.

Yeah. Did the husband go in?

No, he stayed outside with the dogs.

Yeah, so I am curious what he would have experienced. What he would have experienced. Or just like what he witnessed from the outside. I don't know.

So strange. Oh my gosh.

Spooky.

I don't know.

Well, now we need to look in our inbox to see if there's anything from Briscoe

52:00

or like those areas.

Yeah. People are like, oh, did I drop through drop drop through Well, I guess sort of drop through a portal.

a portal, yeah. I will say the one like cool braggy part of this story is you can say I had Reese's Pieces from another timeline.

That's true. And they were stale. And they were stale.

Do not Our timeline has better Reese's Pieces.

Yeah, a little more up-to-date. Uh-huh, [laughter] more recently manufactured.

Less dusty.

Well, hey, at least the attendant was really nice. He was just like, "Hi, how are you?"

Just hello.

Yeah, he wasn't He might have been a little weird because he's from a different timeline, but he didn't

If you have a story

a human to come in that day.

No, he usually serves aliens.

But if you have any encounters like this or just any paranormal encounter whatsoever, please email them to us at two girls one ghost podcast@gmail.com. We also have so many exciting things over on Patreon, which um you should definitely check out if you're interested in episodes one week early and ad-free or if you want to if you're like, "I wish I could tell my ghost story to Sabrina and Karen live." Well,

53:00

guess what? You're in luck, you can. Every Tuesday on Patreon we have campfire stories where you can come up onto We have like a Zoom meeting every week and you can hang out with us, chat, we eat lunch there, and then you can tell us your ghost story.

Shout out to Jamie Ryan who edits and produces our podcast and Emma Levantar who helps us with our socials and produces. Thank you so much. And thank you to all of you.

We love you and we will see you on the other side.

Very spooky.