Grand Canyon Mysteries | A Hidden Cave, Mummies, Hieroglyphics & A Lost Civilization (Ep 385)

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A major archaeological coverup, a conspiracy. Rows and rows of mummies wrapped and preserved. The Grand Canyon Yeah. Very spooky.

Hi.

Hi.

Hello.

Hello. This is Two Girls, One Ghost.

Two Girls, One Ghost. We are your ghost sisters. That is Karin.

Hello.

I'm Sabrina. And happy freaking 9y year anniversary.

Isn't that crazy?

It is actually crazy.

Yeah. We've been doing this podcast for 9 years. 9 years not of our friendship, but that's a lot longer. 15 years is our friendship. We met in 2011.

2011.

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Yeah. 15 years.

Last week of August, 2011.

Everything is in August for us.

It's all in August.

August is our big month. Yeah. 9 years of podcasting.

It's I I have very few words for it. It's kind of amazing. Yeah.

Especially given how many people have a podcast these days, which

I literally thinking about it because at the time of I can't remember like when this comes out versus when our I think I don't think our Patreon

the week before. Oh, wait. What? our Patreon bonus that comes out in August.

I think it comes out the

because we haven't recorded that one yet.

We're recording ahead of time, but I was looking So, we're doing, spoiler alert, on Patreon, we're doing a Q&A episode, which we've never done like a full Q&A episode

and so people on Patreon are submitting their questions and I was looking through some of them yesterday and someone asked like, "How did you get people to start following your podcast?" And I was like, thinking about it, it's none of our advice is even it doesn't apply to today cuz [laughter] so long ago.

It was the wild wild west back then.

Yeah.

But here's what I did. I did gorilla

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Instagram follows.

Yes. Just following everyone on Instagram.

It's so funny because still it's 9 years. So it's been 9 years. And occasionally we'll get a notification that says so and so accepted your like friend request. meaning someone from nine years ago. For nine years, our friend request has been sitting in their Instagram and they finally we finally made it.

Finally, [laughter]

that's that's what we did.

Yeah.

And we asked our like 20 friends to write and review us.

Yeah. It's a little bit of delusion, but I think the best things start in a delusional way.

Yeah.

This friendship being the example. [laughter]

Oh. [clears throat] Oh god. Sorry. And of course I'm sick for our anniversary. Well, we don't know if I'm sick. It might be allergies.

The doctor said it's allergies. We'll see.

We'll see. But

but for our anniversary, we decided to share a topic.

Yeah.

A topic that's kind of big.

It could probably be a whole podcast series in and of itself.

I literally wrote that in my research.

Did you?

Yeah.

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Okay. Well, we're trying to squeeze as much into two episodes as we can.

The Grand Canyon,

the mysteries, the hauntings, the conspiracies.

There's so much. Have you ever been?

Of course. Of course.

Of course. One time Thanksgiving, many moons ago, it was probably when when is it? It was like 2014. And all I remember is as I was driving, we called my grandma. RIP. Love her. But we were driving.

Coffee and cigarettes, grandma.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Or Melinda. And she was so nervous.

She was like, "Please don't fall in."

That's how I feel about it.

And I we kind of like laughed at the time. And but then we got there late at night and we were like, "Oh, let's go walk over to the rim. What the hell? And you cannot see anything. It is pitch black. Like I understand why someone could fall in and people fall in and just Oh yeah. I'm now I'm getting flashbacks [clears throat] of things that I saw on TikTok that I shouldn't have seen where like people do fall every year.

Yeah.

And it's really horrific. But remember

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when we went to Niagara Falls? I feel like you were way braver about like getting towards the guard rail and I was like I can't.

Crazy vertigo.

Yeah.

I'm afraid of falling. I'm afraid that I will just jump. You're afraid of a lot. [sighs and gasps]

Your intrusive thoughts are probably the scariest.

Yeah.

The scariest things that could happen.

Although, one of my fears almost came true the other day.

What happened?

Well, it's not Is it intrusive? I don't think so. I think it's a realistic visualization I bring myself through.

I bring myself through a lot of survival moments.

Mhm.

Every day.

Mhm.

But I always picture I'm such a dog person, but I visualize if a dog were to attack me or to attack Noah. Mhm.

the quickest way to possibly kill the dog.

Mhm. And

uh 2 days ago, a neighbor's dog gets out and is super excited. Beelines for Noah. I run and grab him and the dog is like circling and jumping on me and he's excited, but he's like biting and scratching.

It was a friendly dog, but like if it wasn't

Yeah. No, that's scary.

I was there and I was just like I mean

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I'm not going to do anything to this dog cuz this dog is a friendly dog. But in my mind, I was like, "This is my

visual visualisualization."

Yeah.

Almost coming true.

So, Jennifer Lawrence did an interview. I don't remember what show it was on, like it was a late night show. And she was asked if she was a cat person or a dog person. And she said, "Ever since having a kid, I'm a cat person." They literally gave their dog to her mom.

Oh, really?

Because she was like, "I couldn't stop seeing my dog as a threat to my child."

Oh, interesting. And I got so like she couldn't stop thinking about this dog potentially biting or hurting her her tiny baby.

Honestly, like I I'm more afraid of [clears throat and laughter] cats than I am dogs because I feel like when cats attack you, they can climb and latch on other places. So it's harder to like get them off of you. Are they going to murder you? Probably not. But I agree with her that in like having a kid, all animals and all species are potential threats and enemies. It's just kind of a blanket like

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Yeah.

Although then there's also the flip side. When my sister was pregnant with no Emmy, my brother's dog Jackson was so protective of my sister and would like come lay his head on her pregnant belly before she was even like showing and really telling people like he just knew.

Sense it

and then was just like very guard dog. It was like very very very cute.

A wrinkles was like that too. He like didn't if there was a baby around like even the parent like couldn't go near the baby. He was guarding. My mom would call him Nana because he was like, and it wasn't just babies. It was like if there were little bunnies or just like any small creature, he was very protective

of babies. Very sweet.

Little Nana. Anyway, this is about the Grand Canyon and the horrors.

Yes.

Of the Grand Canyon, the mysteries, but like also amazement of something. So,

ancient mysteries - the Grand Canyon

that's exactly how I was going to start. So, I was going to talk about the history and like the magic of this place because very similar to Appalachia, it is so it's ancient. Yes,

there's a place. We already said what it is, but I'm gonna read what can you guess?

I'm gonna read it like I wrote it. [laughter] I can't I'm not an improv.

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I didn't know your intro.

It is located in the American Southwest. It is a place so massive, so ancient, so otherworldly that people have been standing at its edge for thousands of years wondering what in the world is going on down there and how in the world did something so miraculous and so grand form. This is the Grand Canyon. It is 277 mi long, up to 18 m wide, over a mile deep. Layers and layers of rock formations, and each layer holds a chapter of Earth's history going back almost 2 billion years.

So crazy.

And if you have not been, even a photo takes your breath away. Like it is just it's hard to fathom that this exists naturally in our world.

Yeah. I flew over and I took a picture of it flying over. It's like obvious.

Yeah. You can't like there's a giant freaking hole in the earth,

right? And then standing before it is unlike anything you've seen before. It's a natural wonder, a sacred place, a spiritual place, and also a very

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mysterious place. Hidden within its depths are thousands of unexplored caves, petroglyphs left behind by civilizations that vanished without explanation. There are ruins of ancient peoples, stories told by generations past, of spirits that are both ancient and new, whailing women, wandering ghosts, phantom miners, and so many more. It is a sacred place, and the Navajo have long spoken of the energy here, that it is alive and it is vengeful. Since the mid 1800s, over 900 people have died in the Grand Canyon and more than 1,000 people have been reported missing, which is the highest number of missing person reports in all of US national parks.

Wow.

Isn't that wild?

But I believe it because have you seen how quickly like when the weather changes like even like a mile away,

the flooding that can happen and people are walking through like narrow pathways. I feel like if you're used to hiking like a normal mountain

Mhm. You're just like, "Oh, we'll climb

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an elevation." You can't. Like, the walls are slime and like sharp rock. Like, you're trapped

where you are, so you better run for your life, literally, or you will go missing.

Yes. And we'll talk about the ghosts or a couple of them. We'll like talk generally about the ghosts. There's so many. So, I kind of just like picked a couple like

hot topics.

Hot topics.

Hot topics. I have one one like paranormally

like a place that you can go visit next week that has

You can go visit it next week.

I'm going to talk about it next week. You can also go next week.

You can go whenever you want.

You can do whatever you want.

Yeah. So yeah, happy 9-year podcast anniversary. I wrote let's get ghoulish because you really like that word now and we're bringing it back.

Um have you been?

No, I've will never go. It's not on my It's on my anti-bucket list. I feel like you have a lot of places on your hand bucket list.

I will not go.

Yeah, there's so many places that are on my bucket list.

Yeah,

I'm not done traveling. I actually Wait, does this just remind me of senior year when everyone went to Cabo for spring

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break? I did a spring break trip with like a couple of like our guy friends. We rented an RV.

Didn't you go to Joshua Tree?

We went We did like all bunch of national parks. We did Grand Canyon, Joshua Tree.

Where are the hoodoo? We went to Zion. Where are the hoodoo? Let's see. I don't know, but this feels like a

Bryce Canyon.

Bryce Canyon.

I don't know why they're called Hoodos, but I love them.

I felt like that was part of a musical. Like you were about to break out into some

hoodoo. Hoodos is definitely in some sort of like

It's like rock formations.

Oh, doesn't that look cool?

That looks really cool.

Yeah. But when we went to the Grand Canyon on that trip, I I don't know if it was cuz we had been like out on the road for so long and was dehydrated or something. I got so laded as we started to hike the Grand Canyon that I was like, I have to turn back. I'm not attempting fate.

Good thing that you made that decision

cuz maybe I wouldn't be here today.

No.

Back to the Grand Canyon. Let's talk about the history in the canyon itself. So, like I said, it's located in

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northwestern Arizona and was carved by the Colorado River over millions of years. What I love and I think is so cool is the rocks literally tell a story. The rocks at the very very bottom of the canyon are called the Vishnu shist layer and they are approximately 1.8 billion years old. And as context, Earth is believed to be 4.54 billion years old. So like not

they've been dating a long time.

Yeah, they've been friends as long as we have.

Yeah, [laughter] this is their anniversary episode, too. Happy anniversary Grand Canyon and Vishnu layer rocks. Um and then even the rocks that sit at the very top of the canyon, they are also ancient. They are about 270 million years old.

Oh man. You know what's so crazy? It's like, you know, when people get excited going into a filming location and they're like, "Oh my god, Merryill Street breathed here." Or whatever.

Like Elvis sat on this exact chair.

Dinosaurs touched those rocks. They peed on those rocks. Ancient people touched the rocks.

They peed on those rocks.

I don't know why

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on the rocks. Yeah, there's probably feces in the rocks. Why am I a child? Okay. [laughter]

Well, there probably is.

There probably is

fossilized doodoo.

Yeah. Fossilized.

Go see for yourself. Visit Grand Canyon National Park. Yes.

In the United States of America.

And then this like felt so romantic to me is like viewing the Grand Canyon as almost like a textbook. It literally is the pages of history in rock formation. Isn't that I just like felt like that was the coolest

thing. Anyway, [laughter] I got lost in my own little like romance of the Grand Canyon. The canyon itself is believed to have begun forming between five and 6 million years ago as the Colorado River slowly cut through the Colorado Plateau.

And again, this place is massive. We're talking 277 mi long, up to 18 m wide, and over a mile deep. It is also the second most visited national park in America. But despite that high visitation rate, only a fraction of the

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Grand Canyon has been explored. So like I kept relating it to the ocean.

Yeah.

Like we know more about space than we do about our own ocean. And it's kind of the same with the Grand Canyon because it's so treacherous and incredibly difficult to get in and out of certain places

that a fraction of it has actually been explored.

And which I'll cover like just touch on next week,

there are cave systems. So even what you can see on the surface is not the whole thing.

Well, we're going to be talking about one of the caves today.

Okay, here we go.

But before we get to the caves, there are a lot of really cool things that historic and archaeologists have found in the Grand Canyon that have taught us a lot about the history of civilizations that have lived here.

So, there were these split twig figurines found in caves just below the rim of the canyon, making them some of the oldest physical evidence that humans lived in and around the Grand Canyon.

Like little dolls. They look like this.

Oh,

they were made of willow and cottonwood twigs, so shaped into deer and sheep.

They do feel like toys for kids.

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So, I was trying to learn what it was about. And they date back some 4,000 years ago and are believed to be ritualistic totems

that were placed inside the caves like with intention.

Okay.

It's like an offering

or I I'm not sure. We also know that throughout history many tribes called the Grand Canyon home. The ancestral plebuins, also known as the Anastasia, meaning the ancient ones, lived in the canyon region around 500 AD. And they left behind ruins of adobe homes and petroglyphs etched into the canyon walls. They would literally farm inside the inner canyon during the winter and then hunt on the north rim during summer. They lived in the canyons.

Is that not what communities do now?

Some do. Yes.

Are you going to get there? very very briefly, but like you can see these petetroglyphs

and etchings into the rocks.

It's just crazy that like that stuff still is visible, you know, that it hasn't just been washed away or eroded or

Well, then also like for this to like be

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etched into stone like that takes so much time, too.

But it's also exposed to the elements. It's not like inside of a cave, at least in the picture that you're showing.

Yeah. So, there are some in caves. And then they also, I don't think it's specifically in the Grand Canyon, but I know in like Sedona, I think it's the same people, the the PBLins like built like structures into the actual face of the rocks

and they still exist like the houses.

Yeah. I've seen people's videos and pictures and stuff where they're like walking and then it'll be like 200 ft above them. It will look like there's an archway or like a window into something

but it's just carved into the rock and you're like,

"Right,

what is that?"

Wild. which adds to the mystery too because then you're like is is there a giant that lives behind there? Maybe. But as far as we know, the mysteries of the Grand Canyon started as early as like the first civilizations that lived there. So, the Pueblins actually suddenly up and left the region with no explanation. They were there and then suddenly they were not. And we still to this day do not know why.

Interesting.

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We know that at least

But we know where they Wait, we know where they went.

Yes, I think we know where they went, but we don't know why they fled the Grand Canyon. Uh, we also know that at least nine, although some sources said 11, Native American tribes have deep cultural ties to the Grand Canyon. One of which still lives inside the Grand Canyon today.

native tribes & sacred beliefs

So, the Havasapi people of which they're called the people of the blue green water live in a remote village called Supai that is only accessible by foot, pack animal, or by the river. And they still live here. And one place that I really do wish I could go to in the Grand Canyon is the Havasupai Falls, but I think you have to access it from like a different region. And then it's like a long hike. But look how stunning.

Oh my god. Beautiful

looks. That blue water,

huh? Also, if anyone's interested in what life is like living in this community, there is a girl who lives there who Tik Toks about it.

See, got to love Tik Toks.

So, we do have access.

Yeah. I've only seen a couple of her videos where she was like explaining how they pack things in and like had a mule

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and show kind of like the path into the village and stuff.

It's amazing.

But yeah,

cuz it's not like a safe, comfy, cozy place to live.

No.

Every native tribe that has lived here carry deep beliefs about the land about and about what lives within it. While the stories and superstitions vary, the one thing is true amongst all tribes. The land is sacred. The Hopi people believe that their ancestors literally emerged from the underworld through the Grand Canyon. Their tradition says the people once lived in an underground world inside of the canyon. And when the good people needed to escape, their chief caused a tree to grow up through the roof of the underworld and they climbed out of it, emerging into what they refer to as the present fourth world, which is our world.

The fourth world.

Yeah. I maybe it's like dimensions like Yeah. But after they emerged, they were guided and greeted by a spirit guardian, a caretaker of Earth who granted them permission to live on the land peacefully as long as they would act as Earth's stewards and in harmony with

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nature. They believe that the Grand Canyon is the ultimate spiritual realm and that upon death, the spirits of their ancestors all returned to the canyon. Isn't that amazing?

Yeah. I my brain immediately went to the haunted mansion the ballroom scene and I was just like picturing everyone all these spirits at the bottom of the Grand Canyon just like walting around and partying. So remember that story because it will come back okay

when we talk about the the mystery cave that we're going to talk about.

Gotcha.

But there's also the Navajos who have a deep root and spiritual beliefs in the Grand Canyon. They speak of protective spirits who guide those who show the land respect. But for those who disrespect the land, something darker awaits them.

Shape-shifting entities that bring illness and curse. Can you guess the name of those entities?

Yeah.

Flesh pedestrians.

Mhm.

SWS. I'm not going to say them again. I feel like I've said them so much.

Yeah. I feel like every somehow they're getting woven into every topic that

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you're covering. But this is like it reminds me so much of Appalachia where it's like if you respect the land Yeah. and if you follow the rules, you will be

nature will take care of you.

Nature will take care of you. If you disrespect the land, not only will nature not take care of you, they will send vengeful spirits after you.

Yes.

So, similar to the Hopi people, the Navajos believe the Grand Canyon is a place where the physical and spiritual world intersect. And there is one oral history from the Navajo people that recounts how a warrior deity named the monster slayer, and that's like the translation of it, fought a wandering rock monster that was hoarding all of the world's water. In exchange for life, the monster promised to create paths for water, which carved the canyon with the Colorado River. I like that. So, of course, there are many more beliefs and other stories and they're very rich with native history here, but I wanted to share these like couple of ones just to like paint the picture of how important it is to respect the land, especially here in the Grand Canyon. Well,

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everywhere you should respect the land, but if you do, the land and spirits of the land will reward you, but should you disrespect it, you will be punished. And then also, the history of the Grand Canyon, unfortunately, is not complete without colonization and bloodshed. I

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exploration of the Canyon

So, I talked about the native tribes who first settled here, but then the Spanish first laid eyes on the Grand Canyon in 1540.

God, where were the Spanish not?

And they people be sailing conquistadors.

Yes. [laughter]

Yes.

Yes.

They were guided to the south rim by the Hopi guides and they spent so they were planted to go down. They believe that the seven cities of gold were like in the Grand Canyon [sighs and gasps] and the Hopi guides were bringing them there so they could go look. They tried to

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descend into the gorge.

Wait, do the native people think that or just the Spanish?

I'm not totally clear. I didn't go too deep dive.

Who told them this? Honestly, kind of a brilliant thing to get these people who might ruffle feathers amongst your community and ruin things for you. Send them on a gold hunt somewhere really dangerous

and then they never come back. And then they never come back.

This reminded me of Superstition Mountains a little bit.

M. Mhm. Oh, Superstition Mountains is actually I feel like we don't bring up that episode enough. And that was a good one.

That one scared me.

Yeah.

Like the little people who just chop your head off.

Oh, yeah. So many people have died there and gone missing there.

Looking for treasure.

Decapitation.

We should also do like a series about like treasure hunting cuz I feel like that's also I really want to do the curse of Oak Island.

Oh

Yeah. Danielle from National Park After Dark posted about a book. about that and I bought it and I have not read it but it's a big book so I feel like stay tuned eventually we'll get there.

Is it fiction the book?

No I think it's the true story.

Oh it is the true story. Interesting.

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I keep thinking about National Park after dark as we're doing this episode too.

Yeah

cuz this is their whole thing.

It's their whole thing. So they the Spanish tried to descend into the gorge looking for the seven cities of gold but the terrain and exploration was too dangerous. They literally had to give up. And despite being guided by the Hopi people on the expedition, peace did not last long. The arrival of Spanish explorers and later US prospectors brought a lot of bloodshed. During the 1860s, as settlers flooded Arizona, the US Army forced many natives out of their land by gunpoint. In 1871, there was a horrific massacre known as Camp Grant Massacre where just south of the Grand Canyon, a group of colonizers attacked, killed, and mutilated 144 Apache people who had already peacefully surrendered. [sighs]

Why? Why are people so bad?

Gross. So, just generally, there's a lot of like mass displacement and murder. And this is just context to like help you understand how much death has

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happened in this area. But then one of the most notable explorations and mapping quests of the Grand Canyon is generally considered to be that of Major John Wesley Powell, who was a one-armed Civil War veteran who led the first government-f funded expedition through the canyon by boat in 1869. And some of these pictures are really cool. And I'm

1869. When did we first get cameras? Why did I think it was like 1880? That feels so early to me to have 1816 was the first camera.

Damn. But I mean it was probably

I'm forgetting facts.

1888 was when the Kodak a consumerfriendly box camera was invented.

Okay, maybe that's what was in my mind when it's [clears throat] like become more accessible to the public.

Yeah. Well, so this expedition was funded by the Smithsonian Institute and that's important to note. Just keep it in the back of your noggin. Um, okay. So on May 24th, 1869, Powell and nine other men departed in four wooden boats. They spent three months navigating the dangerous rapids through the canyon and

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lost during this adventure adventure exploration. This wasn't for shits and giggles. This was this was their job.

It was an adventure.

They lost a lot of their provisions in the like they fell out of the boats

and endured extreme rapids. Yes. Just days before the end of their exploration, three men left because they were so like they left the boat because they were so scared that they wouldn't make it out.

Wow.

And they were afraid they would starve or die due to the rapids. So, they chose to hike out instead. Those three men have never been seen again.

No. [gasps] Oh god.

Yeah. The other men who did stay in the boat, so I think it would be six. The other six men successfully emerged from the Grand Canyon on August 20th, 1869.

Damn. And again, this was funded by the Smithsonian Institute. They wanted to retrieve documentation, so photos, maps, geological data, which is why they sent John Wesley Powell, and that's what he brought home. He also brought home

It's kind of crazy how much our curiosity as human beings kills us.

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Yep.

Like we had to map it.

Yes. Which I'm glad someone did it that I don't have to do it.

Yeah.

But wait,

and no one has to do it.

No. But it's nice to know what land we live on. open up your coffee table book and see the the perimeter drawings. It is a little bit of survival back then. Like I think about Oregon Trail and all those things too. Like someone had to go first

to pave the way so that people safely first.

Yes, that game Oregon Trail.

Everyone dies.

I've actually never played it.

You can't really complete it. I don't think anyone's ever completed it without dying.

Do you win? There was a board game version of it and this is back back in the olden days with Nick where we tried to play like immediately the first card I flipped it was like you died

you died

dysentery everybody I was like okay we do we restart like how do we move on a

very fun game if everyone's just dying right away

but so when Powell came home he also came back with a deep respect for the place like he was so grateful to have survived his travels and he provided

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many key insights into the formation of the Grand Canyon he was the one who realized that the Colorado River had carved through the layer of rocks over millions of years. And even today, it is said that his ghost haunts the canyon. Like that was so formative to him and like so important to his life that when he died, he went back.

Did he go back or does the canyon keep

Well, it's kind of like the Hopi people, how they believe when you die, your spirit goes back to the Grand Canyon. So,

some sort of little energy vortex.

Yeah. Okay. So from this time on after Powell's expedition, so many other groups like set to do the same and explore and document the Grand Canyon. And almost immediately, people began to share haunting tales. And there's one of these expeditions that told of a mysterious cave, a cave with mummies and other remarkable finds. So this is the

the 1909 Egyptian caves

mystery of the 1909 Egyptian caves. I love this one. On April 5th, 1909, a

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newspaper called the Arizona Gazette, a Phoenix newspaper, ran a front page story. This is very real. We have the evidence of it, like a photo of it. This is what the headline read. Explorations in the Grand Canyon. Mysteries of immense rich cavern being brought to light. Remarkable finds indicate ancient people migrated from Orient. What was detailed in this article is one of the most wild and detailed news stories ever published in American history. Dang, I didn't know that.

According to the article, one singular lone explorer, which also was crazy, named GE Concincaid had been on an expedition down the Colorado River. He, similar to Powell, started from the Green River in Wyoming and traveled all the way to Yuma, Arizona by wooden boat. I looked it up cuz I was so curious like how long is this?

If you were to drive, it would take today 13 hours and 2 minutes. It is over 875 miles by road. So now imagine that by river by yourself in a simple wooden

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boat. Damn. So this is the same path that Powell and his nine fellow explorers took. And like the nine of them together had a hard time surviving. Like three of them did not survive. But here GE Concincaid was by himself. He said that about 42 m up the river from El Tovar Crystal Canyon, and that's what we call it today. I don't know if it was named that then. He saw stains in the sedimentary formation. This was approximately 2,000 ft above the river. He was so curious. So naturally, he stopped, pulled his boat over by the side of the river

and to explore it. There was no trail whatsoever, but that did not stop him. By himself, he climbed up the canyon to a shelf. And it was there on this shelf that he found an entrance to a cave. Naturally, he went inside, and what awaited him was beyond anything he ever could have imagined. His flabbers were ghasted as he gazed upon something extraordinary. Nearly 1,480 ft below the surface, he followed this long passageway that led to a massive

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chamber. From that chamber, there were dozens of passageways that radiated outward like the spokes of a wheel. So, there's like one main chamber, lots of different paths passageways that you choose.

They were each about 12 ft wide. And as he traveled each walkway, he discovered several hundred rooms, chambers that were 30 to 40 feet square with walls three and a half ft thick. But it wasn't the architectural feat that astonished him. It is what these chambers held within. Tablets engraved with hieroglyphics, copper weapons and tools, granaries filled with seeds, urns, and cooking utensils. And then in the central chamber, a shrine with a large idol carved from hard marble like rock. And this was a massive idol. It was like a man in a seated cross-legged position holding a lotus flower in each hand. So the article that was published in April of 1909 described it as if resembling a

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Buddha but more Egyptian in character. And just to note, there is a photo in the YouTube video. It's not an actual photo from the cave, but it's one that like a lot of websites use to be like, "This is in essence

what he what he saw."

Yeah.

Oh, interesting. Oh my gosh.

Massive.

It's much more elaborate, too, than I was expecting.

Also, within this chamber were mummies. Rows and rows of mummies wrapped and preserved. Of course, GE Concincaid was in awe and also thrilled because he's like, "Wow, I just discovered this like amazing finding." And if you're an explorer at this time, like you're finding like pretty much gold. Like you're going to become rich and then also now you're being able to bring forth this incredible hidden history of the Grand Canyon to the public.

So he completes his expedition and he spread news of his discovery which led to the publication of this article on April 5th, 1909 in the Arizona Gazette. In the article, Concaid apparently, and

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I'm not I didn't read the whole article, but I think either he claimed or the person who wrote the article like learned that the expedition was funded by the Smithsonian Institute, the same institute that funded Powell in 1869.

And Concaid claimed it was led by a professor named SA Jordan. The article continued to declare that the findings and the artifacts within this cave almost conclusively proved that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern huned in solid rock by human hands was possibly from Egypt tracing back to Ramsy's. And of course that's like a very powerful statement to make and also a bold claim to make cuz like

he just saw it. He didn't do like a ton of analysis of it but I think based on how it looked

Yeah. That was the assumption they were making,

which is also why why would the Egyptians find themselves there? And given the number of mummified bodies

and how extensive the rooms and the

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caves and everything is, this seems like a large population of people,

not to mention thousands and thousands and thousands of miles away across oceans. Like, right,

this is not anywhere near Egypt.

No. And you can't even make an argument that like pangia once connected the

Oh, is that one of the arguments?

So they were basically

well Africa was connected but like

but not close enough. Yeah,

like if they were in Virginia. Okay,

maybe. But okay, so this is a quote from the article. Egypt and the Nile and Arizona and the Colorado River will be linked by a historical chain running back to ages which will stagger the wildest fancy of the fictionist. So basically implying that perhaps in the past these two places were accessible in some way.

But that's so long ago that like what you're viewing as Egyptian practices, people weren't even in existence at that point.

And also like why in this like random place in a cave in the midst of the Grand Canyon. It's not like at the beginning of the Grand Canyon. It's like

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in the middle and no one's ever found any finds like this.

Is this a journey to the center of the earth type of situation? I imagine if you did discover something that yes, your mind would go to these like grand theories and be like, "Yeah, were they connected in the past? What do

is there some weird cave system? Is there a magical portal? Did aliens transport them here? Did they have spaceships or airplanes and we just lost all information about it?"

So much alien conspiracy with Egyptian practices and and how they built the pyramids and stuff. But point being, this was an amazing discovery.

Yes,

you would think after this article was published, there would be further expeditions conducted or that GE Concincaid himself would have returned to the caves and brought other people to actually study these findings, right?

But here's the thing. As far as we know, literally nothing came from this discovery, which of course we can explain away in many different ways. Like there are so many different expeditions going on, lack of funding.

35:00

Maybe they did try to find it again, but like

no one's ever tried. Maybe he lost track of like where it was or like mislabeled it on a map. I don't know. Here's what we do know. In 1962, so 51 years, 52,

the rediscovery

when was the article published? 53 years, a book called the Arizona Cavalcade was published. It was a collection of historical newspaper articles from the state of Arizona and the 1909 Gazette article was included and put back into circulation for the first time in decades. Then in 1992, the story was published again in a book called The Lost Cities of the North and Central America written by David Hatcher Childress because David had grown up, he had heard of and read the original article. I think he grew up in Arizona or around this area and he was struck by the stranges of it.

How could this have been published front page news? Why couldn't he find anything else about this cave or this discovery?

So David's like, "You know what? I'm

36:00

going to go look for the cave. He personally made several attempts to search the region, but every time he thinks he got close, he was blocked or denied further passage by park rangers.

Interesting.

Every single time. Which is also wild because like why are park rangers like stationed kind of in the canyon around this region,

right?

Preventing people from going in.

Well, now we need to hear from park rangers.

I know. They probably aren't allowed to talk. They've been silenced. So,

a lot of them aren't employed anymore. So, Also, is your NGA up? Can you tell us?

Tell us the secrets. But so every time he was blocked, like the park rangers would claim hazards in the canyon or concerning weather patterns, which like very fair, probably true.

Mhm.

But every time

it's weird. It's like, what are you blocking?

And it's not like, oh, sorry, this is off limits. Like no one can go here. No, it was like, oh, strange weather. Come back again. Try again another day.

Yeah, that is strange.

Like the itsybitsy spider. Come back when the rain is go go goes away. You would think that they would make it an archaeological site or that they would

37:00

like turn it into a tourist attraction.

But that's the thing is also no one knows where the exact location is. So this is where he thinks because of all the like odd being denied access past this point, he's like maybe it's in this region.

It's in this area.

He felt like he was being purposely prevented from finding the cave. But then now he's like well why?

Mhm. So he published this book in 1992 and claimed that the government was covering something up. In fact, he framed this as a major archaeological cover up, a conspiracy. And so 1992,

government conspiracy or cover up?!

this is brought back to a much larger audience and the internet's starting to percolate. People are learning about it

and people start to like send requests to the Smithsonian Institute being like, "What the hell's the deal with this?" like you funded this expedition, we want answers. So many other people after reading David's book and like this being on the internet start gearing up quite literally and heading to the Grand

38:00

Canyon in search for the cave itself. Finally, in 2000, nearly a century after that 1909 article was published. A representative from the Smithsonian Institute responded to the many requests because they had gotten so many they were finally like, "Okay, let's make a statement." This is their statement. The Smithsonian Institution has received many questions about an article in the April 5th, 1909 Phoenix Gazette about GE Conincaid and his discovery of a great underground citadel in the Grand Canyon hun by an ancient race possibly from Egypt. The Smithsonian's Department of Anthropology has searched its files without finding any mention of a Professor Jordan concaid or a lost Egyptian civilization. They also wrote, "The first thing I can tell you before we go any further is that no Egyptian artifact of any kind has been found in North or South America. Therefore, I can tell you that the Smithsonian Institute had never been involved in any such excavations." And sure, many people

39:00

could look at the story and say, "Okay, well, the story of the findings was only ever published in one newspaper in 1909."

Yeah. And there was only one guy on an expedition, so like, how does that make total sense? Maybe the journalist didn't do his due diligence and factchecking. Maybe it was fiction. Or maybe some like man who came out of the Grand Canyon after days and days of spending time in there came out with this like delusion and hallucination and brought a story

definitely thinking hallucination

to a journalist because people have tried to find record of the man GE Concincaid and no one has had luck. So yeah, maybe it's fake news. Maybe it's all fiction. Yeah,

but there are a lot of things that make you question it all and lead many to believe that this is actually a strange government cover up.

First, in the Smithsonian Institute statement, they referred to themselves incorrectly. I think they wrote institution, but they're the institute. But then I was like, isn't that kind of like the same?

Yeah. Anyway,

40:00

like the entire institution versus just

the institute. But apparently it was like big enough where people were like, "This is a fake statement by the government and it's not actually the Smithsonian."

Okay. But then second, people who believe in the conspiracy look to the names of the Grand Canyon. If you pull out a map of the Grand Canyon and look at the north side of it around area 94 Mile Creek and Trinity Creek, many of the geological formations have names. I'm going to read these names to you. Tower of Ra, Tower of Set, Osiris Temple, Isis Temple, Chepo's pyramid, Buddha temple, Manu temple, Shiva temple, Egyptian gods,

who named it?

Hindu deities, but all in this specific area where the mysterious cave is supposed to exist. other areas of the Grand Canyon like have names that are very mythical in sense, but it's just this region that is very like

super

Egyptian Hindu names.

It's like what's the point of covering it up?

We'll get there. We'll talk about the

41:00

conspiracies of it.

So researchers who have inquired upon this are met with answers like, "Oh, early explorers just like Egyptian and Hindu names." Which probably true because a lot of other Grand Canyon names like it implies that explorers liked ancient mythology. There's an area called like King Arthur's Castle or Excalibur, but it feels so coincidental that this specific area holds Egyptian and Hindu names.

Yeah. Although a part of me is like the treasure hunter part of me it's like it well then it's not there because

like it's too on the nose.

Yeah.

But also this specific area around the Egyptian named formations where the cave is supposed to be is closed to public access. The park service sites dangerous terrain, unstable cave systems, specifically cave systems,

and safety concerns. Official park documentation lists specific restricted zones as mines in the river mile 62 area, which is the exact area described in the 1909 article, mines.

So, if you were to caves there,

42:00

go down the river, there's just like park rangers randomly stationed that prevent you from getting out. I mean I I guess I don't know like the logistics of it but that's how it sounds.

I feel like people could do it.

No, but like people can't. So they are being stopped physically which is also

monitored.

Yeah.

Heavily.

Yes.

If it's such difficult terrain and it's so dangerous and this park is so massive. How would you be able to see everyone there? Has anyone asked the native tribes who were there before? Weren't there You said there were nine different groups.

Yeah. So we'll get back to It's about like their own storytelling and lore. And

so remember the one remember the first story I said in the very beginning where the Hopy people believed like one of their leaders grew a tree.

Yes.

And they to get into the fourth world

emerged into our world. Just keep that in mind.

Many researchers or explorers or people who have like bought into this conspiracy and are trying to like find the cave have tried to get close but are

43:00

turned back by rangers. So, yes, it's as if the rangers are patrolling the area and guarding it, which yes, maybe it really is very dangerous and they're just doing their job, but it also feels sus. Like, there's so many things about this specific area that feel like maybe one by itself, okay, coincidence. All of it on top of each other feels very suspicious. So people who believe in the coverup believe that the Smithsonian has over the decades suppressed evidence of pre-Colombian trans oceanic contact because it would upend the current historical consensus of how the Americas were settled. Egyptian artifacts in the Grand Canyon would require a complete rewrite of human history. And like basically people are comparing it to like the alien disclosure that it's just too big to dump on people and it would [sighs]

come on.

Yes. But then

at this point it's like making I'm like mad again. Now I'm mad at whoever.

Can we all stop making Karen mad?

Please don't make me mad.

We need mama to be peaceful.

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I might give birth right here. [laughter]

But like what? Who are you to decide whether I can handle something or not?

If anything, I'm just going to care less now,

right?

Like, oh, you think it's exciting news? All right. Well, whatever I made up in my mind, was way more extreme than what [laughter] you're now dishing out.

Also, people have a hard time understanding how a reputable newspaper, The Gazette, was in 1909, could publish a front page story that is completely fictional. Unfortunately, The Gazette is long defunct, so finding further records or leads about the story is pretty impossible. But all of these strange facts have led people to believe that there is something within that region of the Grand Canyon that the government is trying to hide. Whether it's actually a cave system with Egyptian artifacts is totally up for date. Some believe that is what it is, but others wonder if it's tied to the origins of the Hopi people because they emerged from the underworld. Did they live in these caves for some time and these passageways? And

45:00

like there's maybe again this is not confirmed by the Hopi people in any way, but it's people who have theorized or tried to assign an answer to it. Like

was this their passageway between the underworld and this world?

Mhm. And honestly, given like the extreme weather and stuff, I feel like if the cave system doesn't flood or anything like that and there's good air flow, it probably is pretty temperature controlled and for the most part a decent place to live.

Yeah. Other people wonder if Concaid misinterpreted a Native American archaeological site for an Egyptian one due to so I was looking up in the 1900s people were obsessed with ancient Egypt and a lot of explorations into like the pyramids and tombs were ongoing at this time. So like was that in the back of his mind and he found this cave with a lot of very intricate things,

right?

That he immediately jumped to Egyptian, but it could have been just an ancient native finding.

Totally.

Yeah.

And also like did he even see in person mummies or like did did he truly know

46:00

what Egyptian artifacts and mummification looked like?

Right. Well, then also like going back to temperature control, like maybe the way the bodies, if there were bodies in this cave, the way that they decomposed made them appear mummified,

but they were actually just decayed in a different way.

Yeah,

maybe the reason it was somewhat erased from history or not further investigated, some people, this is a theory, was that because this land was sacred to the Hopi people. But given our I've called on this because given our history and treatment of native people, I can't imagine we would have done something like that. Respect them, respect their caves and not explore it. I don't believe that.

Absolutely. We don't have a history of doing that.

searching for the lost cave

So, as of today, this 1909 Grand Canyon Egyptian cave is officially classified as a hoax, but that has not stopped people from looking for it. Hundreds of people have geared up and gone into the Grand Canyon in search of it. And there are a lot of different Reddit threads and forums discussing it. There was one post 6 months ago by a user, Alternative

47:00

History, who posted a potential location of the cave along with actual images from the Grand Canyon that shows a cave and an opening up in like the top.

Yeah. And there's actual coordinates. I don't know how he found this photo or like what, but he wrote, "So, I was browsing around just for fun looking to see if I could find a potential cave in the Grand Canyon, and I stumbled upon this. I don't know. I looked at the original story and in the original Cancade said the entrance was about 1,486 ft down the cliff of the canyon and this one's about 1860. So 400 ft more and I used the measurements available on Google. What do you guys think? Any potential hero willing to go investigate? And I don't know how to read coordinates but there's a photo in the YouTube

but it's somewhere in the Grand Canyon. Then a man named Jerry Wills who is a self-described healer, explorer, and researcher of ancient mysteries based in Arizona has spoken on the subject and even gone in search of the cave. He did an interview where he discussed the

48:00

story of the 1909 cave and theorized that it is actually connected to a city of light, which is a place where inner earth dwellers and extraterrestrials interact.

Interesting. He claimed that one time while searching for the cave in the Vishnu temple area, he started experiencing a lot of electronic interference and like weird paranormal type of things. So, it makes you wonder, is the government hiding this cave because there's some like alien activity or study happening within? Because we know our government loves to keep alien things hush hush.

And also like what if those aren't park rangers who are down at the bottom but like government officials or men in black. Oh,

but they had to like adorn a park grander costume.

This kind of reminds me of like people trying to get past the ice wall or fly over the ice wall,

right? Scary.

Other civilization that's hidden there. Yeah,

that one I like kind of buy into a little bit. [laughter]

It You wouldn't have to push me far to believe it.

Dude, I feel like you like when a conspiracy is like more outlandish. Like you buy into the more outrageous ones.

49:00

Yeah. Yeah.

Cuz you like the like

Cuz I like the idea of it.

Yeah. Same.

I like living in fantasy. Well, and also we know that aliens love national parks. Like they go hand in hand.

Totally.

They're also celebrating an anniversary today.

And so why not the Grand Canyon?

I'll also say this for anyone who might be like, "Oh, I don't believe this."

Next week, I'm telling two stories and the second one

actually has some similarities that are factual

that might Whoa. Do you hear me?

Yeah. that might add some credence to the idea that this is a real place.

And I think that's the thing is that there are so many caves that have not been explored. I wrote there are thousands of unexplored caves within the Grand Canyon. Like literally not a single human has stepped foot inside of them. Only around 355 caves have been documented and even fewer have been mapped, explored, or inventoried. And only one of those caves is actually open to the public.

Is that what I'm covering?

Maybe. I I didn't look at the name of

50:00

it. Oh,

but if it's open to the public, then yeah,

it is. You can spend the night.

Yeah. So, literally only one of the probably thousands of caves

is available to see. So, like there are hypothetically thousands of things and and historical evidence within these caves that we just have not found. But yeah, ultimately there are no answers. But that's what makes this a mystery and an active conspiracy theory. What we do know is that there are so many caves that are not explored and there's a significant amount of the Grand Canyon in general that has not been explored. Archaeological discoveries are being made very slowly in the Grand Canyon. Even in 1996, new ancestral puebellin ruins were discovered. So like we're still making discoveries.

All to say the Grand Canyon is essentially 277 miles of mystery. And it's possible that those who discovered the 1909 caves have disappeared. What if Concaid was a real explorer funded by the Smithsonian, but the discovery made him dangerous

51:00

and he was wiped from the history books?

What if those three guys that got out found themselves in the cave and now they're living there?

They're the caretakers of the cave.

Once you get in, you never get out.

If you disappear in the Grand Canyon, you're brought into the cave systems and you you become a cave dweller. Whatever you believe, I think we can all agree that the Grand Canyon is vast. It holds many secrets and unknowns. And if you do find yourself standing at the rim, it is likely you will feel so small because it holds knowledge, secrets, and history so much bigger than yourself, much bigger than humanity itself.

Yeah.

Again, the rock layer dates back 1.8 billion years. So, we are literally nothing in comparison.

You brought up the fact that we haven't studied the sea much at all. And I feel like this does remind me of that in the sense that it feels like the more you know, the less you know that you or the less you feel, you actually know.

Yes.

Like the more confused you become.

There's a philosopher who is like me. I can't pull who it is, but there's like some type of

Well, you know how Sabrina feels about

52:00

philosophy.

There's some type of message.

You watch the crimes of episode

which a couple people got mad about.

It's my own personal experience. I am happy to be proven wrong. If you have studied philosophy and you're not going to challenge my belief system, I'll be friends with you

if you're chill.

Yeah. But if you look at me and you're like professor I don't like when people make you feel stupid.

I think that's where they keep questioning you.

Yeah. And I'm like why can't we just like

they come into a conversation ready for a fight

for like a debate. Yeah.

And I'm like can we just like

this is exhausting.

Yeah.

So summer house reunion. [laughter]

Yeah. Exactly. It was like something about the idea similar to what you're saying of like the happiest people are actually like the most naive people because

ignorance is bliss.

Yeah. No, but it was like more grandiose about like the more you know the like more depressed you become and the like harder it is to comprehend the world.

They say knowledge is power, but knowledge is also kind of a burden.

Yes. Like I feel like some of the smartest people are also like the most depressed people.

Yeah.

Um and that's why I'm so depressed

53:00

[laughter] because we're brilliant. We're geniuses.

I'm not

big brains.

No, but okay. I'm going to briefly talk

haunted Grand Canyon

about some hauntings. There are thousands of stories, thousands of deaths and disappearances, and only the Grand Canyon knows the truth. You can't put that much life and death into one place and expect it to just be quiet. In fact, it's anything but. It's very haunted. You're going to talk about a very specific haunting next week.

Yes. One singular location.

Yes.

With a haunting.

But here's what I'll share. Given the sheer size of the ancient history and the many people who have lived here and died within the canyon walls, it is no surprise that there are ghosts. We already mentioned the spirit of Powell who is seen in the Grand Canyon continue to explore in the afterlife. There's also a whailing woman who is a spirit widely reported along the north rim. She is described as wearing a white dress adorned with blue flowers. She is seen often at night and witnesses report the unmistakable sound of crying. Sometimes it's very like faint.

Yeah. Other times it's like a devastating whale.

Oh, I hate that.

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Legend says that she was a mother who lost both her husband and son during a fall during a rainstorm in the canyon.

Oh no. Hell no.

And then I wasn't totally clear on this, but there was a Grand Canyon Lodge fire on September 1st, 1932. And I wasn't sure if people were like, "Oh, she's someone who died in that fire." Or if people think she like had something to do with it because several witnesses claimed to see her face in the flames,

like she started the fire

or like did she watching it burn

or did she like try to go in and save people? I don't know. Or did she die in the fire? I don't I it's very unclear,

right?

But yes, it is certain that people late at night, should you find yourself on the North Rim, you might hear her cries. Um, and a lot of the Grand Canyon hotels actually have their own ghosts. The Elto Tovar Hotel and Hoppy House has lots of hauntings. It opened in 1905 and is reported to be one of the most paranormal hotspots in the park. There is a man in period clothing with a black hat who wanders hallways and rooms and vanishes when approached. Many believe

55:00

he's the one who created the hotel. There's also a woman spirit from the 1930s who one time frightened a night watchman so bad that he never returned to work. Damn. Then there's a hobby house which is a traditional hobby style building that was constructed in 1907 that is haunted by two spirits who run around the building at night.

But they seem to be having fun. So I think it operates as a gift shop. And so like people will come back in the morning and like gift like the things are like messed up and moved around. Lights will have been like turned on and off. So I think they're just like benign

playful spirits. So the ones that I've just said, they're pretty benign, right?

Yeah.

But there are some dangerous spirits. We talked about the flesh pedestrians. I'm not going to go in detail about them, but if you want to go on Reddit, there's plenty of stories of people encountering them in the Grand Canyon. There is a spirit that has told people to jump off the rim.

Others have literally felt hands pushing them, which is so scary.

No.

In the late 1990s, a group of hikers on the remote Thunder River Trail reported seeing a human-like figure moving with

56:00

impossible fluidity, scaling sheer cliff walls at speeds that no human could achieve. Ew. Ew. I hate that.

Yes. They tried to take photos, but their cameras like kept failing, so they literally abandoned their hike in fear.

Ew. Yeah. H.

A park ranger on the North Rim in the early 2000s reportedly documented footprints that transitioned mid-stride from human prints to large dog prints. no.

And then disappeared entirely at a cave entrance.

Yeah. So maybe the caves aren't the places to live. River guides near the little Col Colorado Colorado River junction described a figure appearing on inaccessible ledges who looked exactly like someone they worked with. And so they radioed to their colleague and they were like, "What are you doing?" The colleague was miles away, not on unaccessible face of the cliff.

And all of these encounters are consistently accompanied by equipment failures, unusual weather, and a crushing sense of dread.

It's like the canyon's trying to play tricks on you. There's also so many people who have like lost time in the

57:00

Grand Canyon. They'll be hiking completely fine, hydrated. It's not like they've lost they're not like in like a bad weather or anything

on day five of no granola bars or water.

Yeah. When all of a sudden they'll like lose time and show up miles from where they last were.

Dang.

So yeah, should you find yourself in the depths of the Grand Canyon, whether during day or night, just remember you are small, you are nothing, and you are not alone. You are literally within the largest book of history and sometimes time bleeds through. [snorts]

What a disorienting place.

Very,

but also magical.

Very magical from a distance. I love looking at pictures.

Yes, the pictures are stunning. I don't know that I'll go back cuz I've been twice.

Yeah, there ain't no way I'm going ever. Isn't the Grand Canyon where they have that like glass? They have like a section of glass that you can like walk out on. So, you're just like basically on top.

I swear it's

stuff I can't do. There's like um there's buildings like that that have

58:00

that. I can't do that. Hell no. I can't do that.

I'm not doing that.

Have you seen the fin the newest Final Destination?

Nope.

Pretty sure that's how it opens.

I did the skywalk.

Not in the Grand Canyon, but

the skywalk at the Auckland New Zealand Tower.

Mhm.

I don't know why I did it. I will never do something like that again. But you're on the top of the tower. It's like going to like the Space Needle.

Yeah. You're attached by like a rope around your waist and you just like walk through this like grate so you can basically see everything and then they have you lean back or lean forward so you're like just connected by the rope just like leaning off the building or you can like repel down the building.

Nope.

I just stood there grabbing onto my thing like attempting to crouch down but the rope doesn't give you enough slack to even crouch. So I was like attempting to claw my way through. [gasps]

Not for us. We are not

thrilled. What is it? adrenaline junkies.

No, we're not.

We're far from We're couch cushions.

We go to haunted houses and that is a thrill for some.

But we're on the ground. We can exit

59:00

at all times for our lives. [laughter]

And

and the danger is a different type of danger.

Yeah. Maybe you'll get what's it called when you like step on a rusty nail?

Tetanus.

Maybe we'll get tetanas.

We might need tetanus shots.

But that's the fear I'd rather than falling off

cliff. I agree.

Yeah. But thousands and thousands, millions of people go.

Yeah.

And I have a listener story to share.

listener story

Amazing.

This is from our listener, Lo, who has quite a few different stories, but I'm going to share a couple that Lo has sent in about the Grand Canyon.

Love it. [laughter]

Okay. In the end of November 2024, myself and 12 other friends were granted permission to self-support raft the Grand Canyon for 25 days. [sighs]

Why? So, adrenaline junkies, [laughter] we rented the rafts and we had a company prep all of our food and bathroom supplies, but once we took out on the river, it was just us. And this is the most remote place you will ever believe. Our group has a lot of white water experience, and we were all super

1:00:00

excited to be off the grid for a month with nothing but each other, a ton of beer, and a majestic water ahead. I'm not native, nor was anyone on the trip, but we all understood and respected the gravity of just how spiritual and sacred this place was to the native cultures that once existed here. And that being said, this story is not meant to be disrespectful or insensitive, but rather a reflection of what we all experienced.

The first week or so, we were rafting fairly chill water. No class 5 rapids, mostly just two to four. Think not technical, but don't up. The trip was honestly off to a great start. The group was vibing. We were all in great spirits. We felt the vibes were high. The second week, we had about 5 days of very scary, extremely technical class 5 rapids.

That's scary. How many classes are there? Isn't that pretty high?

I think isn't that the top

rapid classes?

I don't think I've ever heard beyond five.

Six is the

Oh,

but so yeah, that's

Yeah,

basically

low rates. Think do exactly what you're

1:01:00

supposed to do. Pray to the river gods because anything is possible and tell your people you love them before you get through.

Yep. [sighs] No thanks.

And it was during this week that the group started to experience some interesting things. After the first day of Big Rapids, in the second week, we made it to camp. We camped on a nice large beach that had massive canyon right behind us.

Probably stunning.

Yeah, this was by all means a fairly normal night. We cooked dinner. We had a few beers. We celebrated not dying. We thanked the river [laughter] gods. And by about 9:00 p.m., I was really tired, and I was ready for bed. I decided to head to bed early while my partner and the rest of the group stayed up a little later. The way we were oriented, our tent was maybe 50 ft from camp and 50 ft from the mouth of the slot canyon. That night, I fell asleep quickly and I was listening to the sounds of the river and soft conversations around camp. I have no recollection of time, but later that night, I was awoken by loud music. Like it was like someone was blasting music from the camp speaker. People were laughing, singing, just general commotion going on. I laid there in my sleeping bag for a bit to see what

1:02:00

they're doing, if another rafting group maybe had joined us, which was not really likely because it was super late. It was really dark in in these dangerous waters. But the noise kept getting louder and the commotion sounded like it was happening at camp. I looked over to my partner to see that they're fast asleep. So, I decided to open the tent door to see what on earth was going on. I unzipped the tent door and the music became crystal clear. Native drumming, singing. It sounded like dancing in the sand and on the rocks. I scanned out the tent door. It's pitch black. I can't see anyone. There's nobody at camp. Nobody from another group has joined us. The music is so loud at this point. It feels almost like tangible. Wo. And it was in this moment that I sat there with my tent door open. I continued to listen to this music for an hour. And I'm not joking. There are different songs being played, people laughing. I can hear conversations. Like the party is literally happening right there.

Literally a bleeding of time.

Yeah. After about an hour, it sounded like the drums and the music were going

1:03:00

back into the canyon behind our tent. And the music followed the conversations, the laughing, the people. It all goes into the canyon and then boom, dead silent.

This is what you were saying when I was describing like the hopey people, how like when they pass away, they believe everyone goes back to the canyon.

Yeah.

I zipped up the tent and I laid in my sleeping bag awake for what felt like eternity. I didn't feel scared or threatened, but more like I had a deep understanding and respect for the power of the river. And this was the most spiritual that I've ever felt myself feel. The next morning, I woke up. I made myself some coffee and some of the others woke up and we shared our stories. Turns out the three light sleepers of the group, myself and two others, all experienced the exact same thing,

which is nice, like shared experience. Yeah.

And based on where the moon was, we know it all happened at the same time. Throughout the rest of the trip, we would go on to experience this multiple different times and it always happened days after we had really big scary rafting experiences.

Interesting. But when it goes back to like the very beginning of this episode

1:04:00

where I was talking about like the native people believe if you respect the land, this nature spirits will like help guide you safely.

Yeah. She writes, "I I feel I'm only alive because the river sees my respect for her and is allowing safe passage."

Okay. And then there's one more story. This is about a spirit guide that we found while rafting. The year before I took this trip, my grandma was diagnosed with cancer, and my mom and myself took the roles of being her primary caregivers. We both live pretty far away from her, and we would take alternating weeks to go visit and care for my grandma. She and I have always been very close, and I honestly think that we share the same soul,

but being able to spend so much time with her strengthened our bond, and we were basically at this pretty unbreakable level. One night we were sitting on the floor of her back room looking at old photo albums and talking about family lore. It was a weirdly lucid night for her. Like she was sitting on the floor and she wasn't in pain, but she was kind of sleepy and she was really coherent compared to days prior. And at one point she looked up at

1:05:00

me and she starts talking about her days as a cowboy ranch hand. And now listen, this woman was so cool and she looks me dead in the eye and says, "This will not be goodbye. I'm coming back as a bird. Look out for me. This is never goodbye. I hold back my tears. She's so intent on me knowing this. And the piece that I could see in her eyes let me know that she knew that this was in fact

like she just had such confidence.

Yeah.

Wow.

What was going to happen? And I told her, "I will always look for you. And when I go, I can't wait to give you a big hug."

She ended up beating cancer. She was a badass. And her body was just so exhausted from the chemo that she did end up passing away about a month before I was set to go on this trip to the Grand Canyon. I would always tell her that if she passed before I left, I would make sure to take her on all of my wild adventures. After she passed, I got her necklace and I could wear it. A

and it had a little charm and you could put some ashes in it so she could come with [clears throat] me anywhere.

That's amazing.

Okay, so back to the Grand Canyon. We're rafting in winter essentially. So it's

1:06:00

late November around Christmas time. It is not warm. No, actually it's freezing. For context, the summertime is when the water in the Grand Canyon is biggest. So, think massive waves to navigate, big consequences in the water, lower water. So, it's not as big, but it's still definitely scary.

Right from day one, no joke, there was a great blue heron that followed our boat. We took off in the first little small rapid that we approached. I looked to my right and there it was just sat watching us. And once we cleared the rapid, it would fly down the river and sit there as we approached the next rapid just watching and waiting for us to pass safely. Wow. Now, normally I would just chalk this up to us maybe having some food or being some weird interesting things for wildlife to look at. Except right before my grandma passed, she told me she'd come back as a bird. And she said, quote, "Maybe a heron or a crane." The bird never intruded on our camp, never came for food, just watched, waited, headed to the next rapid. I knew

1:07:00

it was the same bird the whole time.

Yeah. On like a 25-day trip.

I knew it was the same bird because of the same tail feathers that were missing from this bird. And I kid you not, this heron followed us for all 25 days, watching, making sure we're safe. And on the very last day, we watched it fly up river and disappear into the canyon. I knew deep in my soul that this was her.

It was really beautiful. Thank you for being a safe space to bring spooky creepies up and I will see you on the other side. Love, Low. low. Those are two such incredible, beautiful encounters that would make if you are an adrenaline junkie or a thrill seeker and want love being in national parks and out in like the outdoorsy area, like these stories would make you want to go to the to the Grand Canyon.

I mean, it's also like you get a safe passageway from like your own ancestral spirit guide and then also your respect for the land is like bringing forth communication with like the spirits before you,

1:08:00

right? Damn. Yeah. I'm so curious how many people who have camped many nights in the Grand Canyon have heard similar sounds,

right? Because it's amazing that Lo was not the only person.

Mhm.

That like half the group

Yeah.

heard it.

Damn.

And there are so many more mysteries to unpack, which is why this is going to be a two-part episode. And next week, Karen, you will

walk you through a disappearance and then an opportunity to stay in a cave overnight,

a haunted

that is haunted.

Yes. Love it. Um, and thank you to everyone who's been a part of our community for whether you've been here a day, a week, or all nine years, no matter what. Like, we're just so grateful that we get to do this.

Yeah.

And that you're here with us for the journey. And I feel like next year it being 10, we have to do something big.

Yeah. What do we have? What do we

I don't know. Pitch ideas, guys. We got one year.

I feel like we should record it from somewhere really cool.

Yeah.

A haunted place.

Let us know. What do you think?

1:09:00

Give us recommendations. Where are we going and where are you joining us? Thank you again. Thank you for being here. If you want episodes one week early and ad free, you can join us on Patreon. There's so much bonus content over there as well. Please rate and review us wherever you listen to your podcast. And also, please keep telling your friends, family, strangers, ghosts about us because we do have a lot of spirits who listen and we love you all.

And thank you to Jamie Ryan who edits and produces our podcast. And we will see you on the other side.

Very spooky.