APPALACHIAN CRYPTID OR ANCIENT SPIRIT | Pamola, Spirit of Mt. Katahdin | Paranormal Pod (Ep 340)

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If you disrespect the land, just know

it will kill you. Mount Kataden was believed to be the place where the human world and the spirit world touched.

There are spectral silhouettes, inexplicable cold spots. Many people swear that the mountain itself is alive or its pimola, the storm guardian, the bird spirit, the protector of Mount Kataden, an ancient being who the Ponobscot people have spoken about for centuries. And boundaries kept or broken decide whether you get to go home. Yeah, very spooky.

Hi. Hi. Hello.

Hello. We only saw each other a few days ago, but I feel like it's been so long

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because you did so much in between. We saw each other a week ago. There's so much to catch each other up on.

Okay. All right. Well, this is two girls, one ghost.

Two girls, one ghost. And we are your ghostesses. That is Karen.

Hello.

I am Sabrina. And if you can't get

new podcast coming soon

enough of us, we have some exciting news.

Karin and I have a new podcast coming out

and a new studio to record in.

Yeah. It is so fun. We're so excited about it. Sometimes before I go to bed at night, I just look at the picture of the empty studio. Like not us in it, just like the setup and I'm like, "Ah, God, it looks so good." It does. Okay, so mark your calendars, subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. Gren and I are the new hosts of a new podcast called Crimes of Brought to you by Pave Studios. It's a crime house production. Crimes of is hosted by us

and the first two episodes are going to be released on September 23rd. So get excited. It's basically a weekly show,

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but we're going to do seasons with

Yeah, we're breaking it up into seasons with each season's probably like eightish episodes. The first season's eight episodes, and we're calling it Crimes of Infamy, and we're covering the terrifying true stories of serial killers who inspired horror films. Yes. in some of our favorite horror films.

So, episode one is about Ed Gene who

which is very timely because of course we record that and then right after recording they announce that there's an Edge Gene movie.

Oh, wait. You mean I thought there's a monsters show.

Well, it's about Well, sorry, the show, but it's about Ed Gene. Like, he's the main guy. I was like, God, we didn't know that when we were recording it.

Well, they're also doing the next season after that is going to be Lizzie Bordon.

Mhm. [ __ ] Anyway, Crimes Lab comes out September 23rd. We're super excited. and can't wait to see you over there on the Crimes of Show. You can watch on YouTube. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. And we're really excited about it.

Yes, we are.

I don't. You did a great job. I like

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what's more to say.

I don't know.

No, it's really really fun.

Yeah.

And sad because it's murderers, but

Well, and we go into some we include some gruesome details. It's a little bit more like I feel like on this show sometimes we just slide.

Yeah. But we cut back on some of like the

gray on the paranormal side of things,

right? But there we are including some of the gruesome details,

but that is coming out and it will be on a weekly basis. So check that out. And

live show - one night only

then also, if you can't get enough of us, we have a live show for one night only. One night only for all you Somerville, Massachusetts people or people who

For some reason, I thought you were going to say for all you sickos. Oh, you sickos.

Who wants to see our sweat beads in real life?

It's actually going to be a great show because this is a show where we are going to show you guys some footage that we have been sitting on for a couple years now

from a place that we went, which ended

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up being out of all the places that you guys know we've gone to investigate, I would say that this was

some of the most horrifying evidence that we have captured. It was very scary

cuz usually we leave houses and we have a good vibe or we feel like a message has come through to us. This house we left and we're like we don't want to come back here.

No. And also every other house we've been in, we've been left alone.

Mhm.

And this time the people who provide the tours were like oh we'll just like be whatever. And we're like you guys can stay.

Yeah. and they captured stuff as well watching us because we had them watch the cameras in the property as we were going around and they captured things. The whole thing is just terrifying and

but forunately unfortunately we're going to revisit it and share it all with you but it'll be very fun. So one night only Wednesday October 8th doors are at 6:30 p.m. Show starts at 7:30 p.m. and we can't wait to see you there. Tickets are on sale now, if there are even any

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tickets left.

But this is a good excuse, too, to come to like the Salem and Boston area during spooky season during October. See us and then see all the haunts that we go to.

Absolutely. Totally see you there. Well, I

want to see you there and we'll talk just like that.

Sabrina's Universal Studios Halloween Horror Nights experiences

Um, okay. So, more talking at the beginning of this episode because

Yes, cuz you went to Halloween Horror Nights in Universal.

Yes, I did. Can you tell us about it?

Okay, so we usually don't have this much banter up front and we will get to the spooky story that Karin has prepared for us, but I missed you so much.

A I went to the same hotel that we stayed at. I saw you in the you

took pictures of the Did you go in a lazy river?

Oh, for sure.

Okay. I wasn't sure if you just like took a picture and drew me in the lazy river.

As some context, I'm very grateful, Universal Studios invited Karan and I both to go to opening weekend. want to go every single year, but the last time we were invited was maybe like four or five years ago 2020.

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Yeah. And then we went together and it was like the best time ever so much where we got to interview I don't know if he's still if the same guy does it,

but we had interviewed the person who was basically like the creative director and in charge of

everything with horror nights and the houses and like how to do the certain smells and the feeling that you get as you walk in and you took us behind the scenes of all the planning. So that like Was that a separate episode we did? It's still available to listen to back from 2020 or was it in an encounters episode? I can't remember. We'll find it and we'll put it in the show notes and if you're watching on YouTube, we'll like link what episode it is.

Yeah, it was very very cool. So, we've always been like a to be able to go back. That would be so great. And

and we harassed them this year or our management team harassed them. She said, can Karen and Sabrina come? And they were like, yeah. And then I was like, great, I can't come. And anyway, so they invited us. So, thank you to Universal for inviting us. I also got to film like all the the houses.

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They let you?

Yeah. So, I have to edit it. So, there will be a vlog coming to our YouTube. I'll give like little teasers of every house.

Wow.

Cuz there's 10 houses this year at Horror Night.

Did you do all 10?

I did all 10.

My god.

My biggest highlight and takeaway is one girl, one ghost is not as fun as two girls, one ghost. And making friends as an adult is horrifying. I think that's the scariest thing that happened the whole weekend.

Yeah. But were people all solo just like you? No.

What?

Oh my god.

I'm proud of myself. I put myself out there. The first person I met, her name was Tiffany from Cinema Blend. She was great. We ended up being in the same group cuz I made her be my friend. And

because you made yourself be in the same group.

Yeah, she we had different groups at first and I was like, "So, hey, um, can I be in her group?" And my group ended up being awesome. Um, I met some really cool people in our arena of the univer like

horror into horror like very Becky Valentine type of girls.

Um,

Becky had her baby.

Becky had her baby. But Vamp, she's

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super cool. Lively Ghost. I felt like I shouldn't be there like because everyone was so cool,

which is maybe why we weren't originally.

Yeah. Anyway, loved it. Had a really good time. It's called the RIP Tour. Now, having done RIP, I feel like I would save money every year to be able to do the RIP tour because it makes everything so much nicer. You get to skip the lines and actually go to all of the and houses. You can also get an express ticket, which I think if you can't do the RIP, that's just helpful if you want to go to all 10 houses. But each year they do a theme kind of for the whole Horror Nights season. And this year the theme was based off of one of the houses and it usually is and it was based off of El Artista which is a Spanish haunting. So this place it was stunning. It was like a Spanish style villa really beautiful very haunting of Hill House

and it was this artist. That's the other thing about the RIP tour is like they give you the story behind each house but

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the art comes alive and possesses him. So yeah, so that house was spooky to me. But

19th century Spain, a tortured artist moves to an isolated country manor to seek inspiration, but instead the art comes alive and possesses him.

Yeah.

And you are about to be a part of the permanent exhibition. That's so cool. L Artista was definitely spooky, but my number one is the terrifier the clown.

Yeah. Based on the movies. I kind of love Art the Clown. Maybe I love Art the Clown that's in this haunted house, but I don't know if I haven't watched the movies. I loved this house. There is a dry path and a wet path in this house. Ew. What is the wet path? A blood bath. Literally, it's called dry path or blood path or blood bath. Sorry.

Is the dry Did you do both?

Oh, I only did the blood bath.

I did

cuz I wasn't sure if the dry one is truly dry. That That was my thing was like, do they trick you? No, it is truly dry. And I think in Hollywood there is

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only a wet path option.

Oh wow. Okay. Interesting.

I loved it, but I was expecting it to be blood, like fake blood, you know, but it was just water.

The other strange thing about the terrify house is there is a room that smells like feces.

Ah, sick. which I know when we did the interview of that man whose name I can't remember Charles something I don't know but there was a whole big conversation about like the old factory experience as you move through each house and room to room and we were talking specifically about Jordan Peele's Us was like the main

yeah that year and we were talking about like just the smell of the fun house and like the

cotton candy and then the like whatever I was not thinking about nope

a thesis room at that point I wonder how they did it you ask No, but Rich, who was our RIP tour guide, said that they bring the bathroom potty smells back around every five years. And okay, this was

So that makes sense.

This was the year. So Terrifier was one

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of my favorite just for enjoyment. Like I had a really good time and I loved the interactiveness of the clowns.

The most terrifying one was for sure the Jason Universe house, Friday the 13th house. They popped out everywhere. There was one area that was truly pitch black

and there were Jason's popping out. I wanted to run through it. I was so scared. We had an option to do that one twice and I was like, "No, I'm good."

Oh my gosh, man. I I'm in so much FOMO right now.

And then the last one that was in my top three and this was purely out of a production and I loved the movie and it was cool to see it was The Five Nights at Freddy's.

They worked with Jim Henson's Creature Shop to create the animatronics. And it is really really cool. Mother trucker. It was awesome.

Okay, we got to plan my life so that I can go next time we get invited.

Yes, because I can't go alone every year.

I want to go so bad.

But anyway, yeah, I'll put more in the

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vlog that I'll put on our YouTube channel. So, if people want to see some of the moments, um, if Karen, you want to live vicariously, you can. Um, I bought a GoPro and I was filming on the GoPro.

Oh, very cool. So, I have some cool inside the houses type of content.

So sick.

Maybe I am an influencer now.

Will we make the list next year? We'll see.

I tried to befriend Jen. Thank you, Jen, for being our PR person. We love you.

Even though you may not love us,

we're not afraid to ask for what we want. And it is access to Halloween Horror Nights every single year.

Well, now I will go to Orlando every year. I will say it's also really cool because I stayed at the Cabana Bay Hotel, which we said that last time

because retro,

but because it's a Universal Hotel, they decorated it all like all out. There were pumpkins hanging everywhere. All of the drinks at the bars were Halloween themed and it was really cool to see how many people fly out for opening weekend.

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Wow.

Like dedicated hurting my heart. I was very excited to hear about it and now I'm actually hurt.

I was hurt too, Karen. I was thinking about the entire time

if you can go. Don't be like Karen. Don't don't don't cry.

Go to Horror Nights.

Oh god.

Weird pivot into this episode cuz this I feel like Horror Nights is actually probably the scariest part of this episode.

Oh, and maybe our listener stories.

Oh, okay. Interesting.

the edge of Appalachia

All right. Well, surprise surprise. We're back on the Appalach Appalachian Trail.

You did both. You did your New England pronunciation.

Appalachia. Although I should say Appalachian Trail because

Yep.

We're in Maine. I feel like often times when we talk about the Appalachin Trail, we are talking about usually like Virginia and the be the beginning of the trail,

the most horrifying parts of the trail,

right? Because that's where most of like the cryptids, the monsters.

Yeah.

The murders.

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Yeah. Was that was up with you?

Yeah. Get a hold of yourself, you guys. But we very rarely talk about what happens at the end of the trail. And the trail ends on Mount Kataden in Maine. It's in the middle of the Northwoods in Maine. And I say end because apparently cuz I was like, "Well, why can't you just start in Mount Kataden and go the other way?" But I guess most people start, I think, early in the year in the south when the weather's good and then you can end. You basically like follow good weather and like the warmth up to New England.

Okay.

Which makes sense. That's nice

cuz it probably gets if you do the opposite. If you start when it's nice,

it gets too hot.

It gets too hot. Or I think that's like there's I you know what? Don't ask me.

We don't make the rules.

But that's

it's the end. We don't ask questions. We just follow the rules.

Mount Kataden, which I once pronounced Mount Ketaden years ago and then my mom called me horrified after hearing it on the podcast.

Oh,

Mount Kataden.

Thank God for Deb.

I know. How dare I, the New Englander,

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mispronounce one of the million difficult town names. You know what? Things are difficult to pronounce and I'll probably butcher a few words in this episode.

It's okay.

But Mount Kataden is the highest point in Maine. And while the peaks wrecked summits and jagged ridge line proves a difficult climb.

Is it a 14k 14er? The peak?

I don't think so.

The peak is 5,269.

So it's a 14 or - 9.

- 9. Yeah, it's big, but like

it's New England big.

Okay, fair.

Okay, so it's definitely like terrain-wise, there's like a part that's called the Knife's Edge, which is actually very creepy if you look at photos of it, which if you're watching on YouTube, I have a few photos of like the mountain and various things we're going to talk about throughout the episode. I like how you said it's actually very creepy because, as if I didn't already think Knife's Edge would be a perilous, terrifying, creepy,

right? Like, it really does look like it's literally the Knife's Edge. Like you're up on like the tip walking a tiny little ridge line and then on either side it's just like you fall off, you

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die.

It's like Angel's Landing.

Yeah. I hate watching videos of

people there in Colin.

Sabrina. Okay. So I feel like every year despite the mountains in New England definitely being a lot smaller than many of the other hikes like you cannot compare them to the western mountains. Although I will remind people Appalachia has like the western mountains in the US are growing, right? They're teen mountains.

Appalachia is like old. Like we are we are walking with a cane. We're on our descent. They were larger at one point and they're literally shrinking.

They're rumbling and tumbling and falling down.

Yes. While they are drastically smaller in height, the changing weather patterns

Mhm. are very extreme and extremely dangerous and people get trapped and lost and die every single year in the White Mountains and Mount Kataden and places like that. So I think a lot of the conversation around like planning if you're doing the Appalachin Trail or if you're just a hiker, a lot of the

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conversation and discourse around Mount Kataden is about the weather and planning things just right. It's kind of like a little mini Everest in a way,

okay?

Where things can get really dangerous. There's huge thunderstorms that can come in just like out of nowhere. Same with snowstorms in the middle of summer, you know, like there's glacial parts, like it can be extreme weather.

Mhm.

However, the people who venture up on this part of the Appalachin Trail have something else to worry about. On the ridge, knife's edge, the world falls away on both sides. The air changes shape around you. It presses cold and close. It feels different, like the mountain itself is alive and breathing down your neck. You glance back once, but there's no one behind you. You glance forward, only clouds beneath you. And then the wind turns. It's sudden. And in it, something that isn't just the wind, a warning, a presence, a bird, an

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angry bird. Very angry bird. I'm here for it. Okay. Okay. But this is not like the angry birds, you know, the game. Not the red bird with a fur brow,

but this bird is ancient and feared and respected. This is Pomola, the wandering spirit of Mount Kataden. And I will say I feel like this is a common theme throughout Appalachia or Appalachia, wherever you are regionally. There are these spirits

like very deep and ancient. episode that we talked about like the devil in Appalachia where it's like

it's not specifically Satan. It's not

a demon in the traditional sense. It is a ancient spirits that are protecting the land. Yeah. Shoot. I should have written down this one quote. Henry David Thorough. He was there um and he he was he was there.

I'll talk about him later. But he had this one quote that he had written down

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about Mount Kataden where like it was like some sort of comparison where it was like just close enough to Satan but like not quite

like a satanic place like it felt very perilous and very

dark

dark and dangerous. Yeah.

If you disrespect the land just know

it will kill you

that there are ancient spirits and entities that will punish you.

And that is exactly what Pomola is there to do. Let me just make sure I'm saying Pamola right.

Okay. It's not like Pamela.

Pamela.

Pamela.

She's modernized her name.

I did call her her research and then had to go back and correct it because apparently it's a he.

Oh,

okay. It's Pamola. And this was recommended from our listener Riley. So, thanks Riley.

Thanks, Riley. We love when you recommend things. So, truly in our YouTube videos, in the comments, email us or evenire campfire stories is definitely when people like, "Have you heard of this?" We're like jotting it down.

Send us recommendations. We do see them and we do write them down and we do like

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now research

cover them.

Mt. Katahdin

So for centuries Mount Kataden has been this very sacred realm for the native people. This is I'm so sorry I'm going to butcher this a little bit. Ponopscot people which is a native group of people that are mostly in the northeastern northern woods of Maine and they're part of the Wabanaki Confederacy. So sometimes in researching this it's kind of like interchangeable whether it's the Ponobscot people or Wabanaki. Okay.

So, I might say Wabanaki because an article said Wabanaki and I'm not really I don't want to like guess that it wasn't.

Sure.

So, Kataden literally translates to the greatest mountain and this was the Ponobscot name for the peak because it sits like an altar in the northern woods. It is the greatest mountain. It should be revered. It should be respected. The mountain was very sacred within the all of the Wabanaki tribes and the Ponobscot people. And this was believed to be the place where the human world and the spirit world touched

and at its heights the mountain was most

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sacred and it served as a warning against just casually summiting. So basically it was like don't just try to conquer the mountain. Don't come with an ego because this is a

good lesson just generally in life.

Well it is. It's I feel like that's a a big thing within like the hiking community itself too.

Yeah. So, I'm going to attempt to tell a bit of history and like lore and culture that I am not familiar with. I have never learned before researching this. And I will start by saying that it was difficult to find a lot of this information because most of the articles that I was referencing and like literally doing like word searches in these like archives from the 1900s and stuff, they are written by the white man. So, like most of them are retellings. And so I might get some things wrong. And if you know the correct answer, please again like YouTube,

Spotify,

yeah,

comments like let us know the corrections. You can also email and I can also correct myself.

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Yeah.

But it was it was a bit tough. But anyway, so in Ponobscot oral history, the first man, so like in Christianity, it would be Adam. The first man was named Gluscap. He stayed in Mount Kataden. He had a lodge on Mount Kataden. So this was the very first man and he is a big part of their lore and their legend. And there's a lot of supernatural creatures that kind of have relations to Gluscop.

Okay.

Um in a lot of their retellings, but this mountain was extremely important, not just because Glucop, the first man, lived there, but also because of this like thunderous god who was associated with like lightning and thunder and being a bird to keep watch over this very sacred place. It is interesting how in so many cultures birds are these higher beings.

Yeah.

And like even today in modern culture we do view birds as signs and also they're so intelligent that when weather patterns change like birds are the first to indicate

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changes but then also you know cardinals being a sign of a loved one passing. I just I think it's interesting how this has translated across so many different cultures and throughout history.

It's so old too, right? Like birds are dinosaurs and they're guardians. They're protectors. They can fly in the sky and see all. So it it does make sense to me.

Pamola

But enter Pomola, right? Pomola is the guardian, the storm guardian, the bird spirit, the protector of Mount Kataden, an ancient being who the Ponobskot people have spoken about for centuries. Some descriptions call him the thunderbeing of Kataden. He's fierce. He's protective and his temperament demands respect for the mountains that he inhabits.

Apparently, he's a little bit volatile at times and I guess he's a little bit testy with it. He's quick to anger. He's like karma, though.

Yeah. Cuz again, same with most of Appalachia. It's only if you are disrespectful of the land are you in danger of being attacked by these

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Exactly. protective entities,

right? Respect the mountain that he inhabits and you will be fine.

Yeah.

So, Pomola is birdlike, a sharp beak, long spindly arms and legs, uh, and wings and talons. And so, if you're watching on YouTube and sprint, I'll show you. There's a sketch of Pomola by a Ponobscot chief. It was drawn in 1775, and it shows this winged creature with long talons carrying away a human.

So, that's like the feet and the talons, and then that's the person getting plucked

off of, I think, the mountain. So Pomola protects the mountain. When the weather turns for worse, that's Pomola. A sunny balmy day turning into an intense thunderstorm within minutes, that's pom. Clear skies and then a sudden shift into violent snowstorms, that's pom.

And like have a lot of similarities to I feel like Zeus in Greek mythology,

right? Right. And I think that also was like a lot of the articles were comparing not specifically to Zeus, but was like thunder god or lightning god cuz it is all weather based.

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Yeah.

Which is interesting that people say thunder and lightning because almost all of the stories and encounters really start with wind. I almost feel like Pamola is a wind god.

A wind spirit. But that also feels very

appropo for like forest spirits and stuff like that. I feel like the wind is a big piece of the magic.

Yeah. Right. So like many guardians and gods, Pamola serves to protect but also has a short a short fuse. If he feels the mountain is at risk, if it's not being respected, he will try to frighten people away. And unfortunately, sometimes because of the weather and because of the rough terrain, frightening ends in death. So sometimes people die. If you come in with a particular attitude, a desire to conquer the peaks instead of respect them, it is the equivalent of telling Pomola that you're here to [ __ ] around and he will make sure that you find out. Local lore says it's bad luck to speak his name if you're at the high camp. And if you do, oftent times suddenly your gear will go missing. Tents will be

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ripped. Even if you're totally okay, like the whole time you're ascending or descending, everyone in your group is suddenly getting these like crazy injuries that would be preventable. Like everyone's rolling an ankle or something.

So you don't call upon him.

Okay.

You just sit there and behave and respect the land.

Uhhuh.

Yeah.

So centuries ago when it was really just the native people, there was a ton of respect, right, for this spot. And so Pima was, you know, feared and revered and respected and people did summit the peaks, I think, sometimes, but most people did it with a hefty amount of respect. However, in modern times, a lot of people don't know about Pima and a lot of people are going up for their Instagram pick or to say that they did it or their mind is just somewhere else that's not in a place that is like fully appreciating and capturing what Pomola wants you to capture when you're up there. Can I say one thing I really really loved about Machu Picchu in Peru was there are people up there monitoring

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everyone who's taking photos and they stop anyone who tries to do like a dance or like a Tik Tok.

Oh, really?

They're like, "You're allowed to take a picture, you're allowed to pose, you cannot do anything that is, I guess, what's the right word?" Disrespect, I guess, in a way. But yeah, there's you can't disrespect it. And they are monitoring very very closely.

That's such like a modern thing to have to do. I know.

So, in modern times, obviously, it's a little bit different. And I don't know if this is how Pomola always was or if he maybe like went through a little bit of a transformation and a glow up

because there's some updated depictions of what he now looks like.

Very Maine, I will say. So, his face is a moose. He still has a beak, but he's a moose face. A very buff, muscular male torso.

He's had a lot of time to work out,

right? big eagle wings. And if you're watching on YouTube, there's artwork by Maurice Day depicting this more modern Pomola who actually looks very friendly in this photo and is like chatting with

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the guy on on a peak. So Pomola's prerogative is more than just ensuring the mountain is respected. For a long time, it was actually believed or felt that it wasn't just about him protecting the mountain and making sure people come up to the sacred place where the mortals and the gods can coexist. It was that mortals were not worthy of summiting at all. So for a long time it was like don't you dare even try to go up Mount Kataden.

The summit was for the gods and all of the violent weather was a warning to people to not go there to preserve its beauty.

That changed.

early encounters

So this guy's been doing this for a long time. This guy

this guy

this this god or creature or something. So oral legends have existed for centuries, but the first written record was in 1804 by Charles Turner Jr. and he was told by the Wabanaki that Pomola guards the mountain in the winter, but then come spring flies off with tremendous rumbling noises. So now it's

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confusing. This is why I'm like, we need more information because there's some conflicting reports. Is Pamola always there

or are like the spring thunderstorms and stuff? Hm.

Pomola leaving.

I don't know.

I don't know either. Okay. So, Charles Turner Jr., he made it to the summit and he survived, but that luck did not extend to Henry David Thorough, who also decided to tempt fate with Pomola and he did not get to summit. In 1846, Theorough stated that Pamola's fury kept him from being able to summit. So, he blamed Pomola. He said thick fog blinded his climbing crew. She was very angry with them. They had no choice but to turn back and it was kind of a confusing thing because he was being guided by the Ponobscot native people, right?

And so you would assume that they have all of the respect for the mountain. And so

but does the

exactly it seems.

Does he have a big ego?

We may deduce. We may deduce Henry David

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Theorough had inadequate respect for the mountain. But this is also kind of a lesson of like even the native people aren't always safe. If Pamola warns you to turn around and you don't, even if you have all the respect for the mountain, if there's a sign that you should turn around and you do not, that is also a sign of disrespect.

Yeah. Especially with big weather changes, that would feel like a warning and a caution you should heed

cuz it might be for your own safety. Like maybe there's something worse up at the summit of this mountain or the peak of it that maybe a pimola is cautioning you

to protect you.

Right. It is confusing cuz I like obviously this is not Mount Everest, but it keeps reminding me of Everest in the way that's like

people's ego and desire to conquer gets in the way and they don't heed the warnings of like the incoming weather in the mountains.

Yeah.

And it does result in deaths. There's a tale of a man who was able to thwart

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Pomola's attacks. It was the early 1800s and there was a former Indian island chief named John Neptune and he decided that he was going to stay in a cave on this mountain for the winter. I don't know why

entire winter.

So the legend goes he was staying in this cave. I would imagine it was like an ode to the first man, right, who also took up residence in a cave on this on this mountain because he was very sacred to all of them.

But he decided to go there and Pamola was like, "What the heck are you doing, man? Like this is not a place to [ __ ] around and find out in the winter like this is very dangerous.

Go leave." And so Pommel is very agitated and is also feeling a bit challenged, I think, by this man's confidence in being able to like survive on this treacherous mountain in these harsh conditions. And so Pomola took all of his strength and channeled it towards this cave to try to get this man to

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leave to heed the warnings. But this chief was prepared to fight back. And so the legend goes he actually froze a rock in the entrance protecting the inside of the cave from Pomola and all of the winter elements in Pomola had to just settle on the outside lo.

So did this man trapped himself inside the cave?

That's why I'm like so the legend goes

and did he just have all his resources inside the cave and

how was he freezing the rock?

Right.

There's questions. Again, this is a lot of like these people heard this from the Ponobskot and the like Wabanaki and then they're writing it down legend,

right? Cuz it's not even like some of it is just like it's a mudge podge of people who were some people just like passing through some people. You said mod podge mud pad.

Did I say I don't know.

M podge.

Maybe that's just

M podge. Mge podge.

Mod Podge.

It was a mod podge. But like not everyone was there to like study Mount Kataden or sure the people there like it

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was just a lot of like random trail guides and people just passing through and it's it's the mod podge of all of this. So I think there's a lot lost in translation which again the problem is that we aren't really hearing like a full-fledged background and

we don't have the resource of the Ponobscot people or maybe we do but it's not like the internet

it's not as accessible. Yeah. is failing us.

Now, I'm going to look and see if there's a book written by the natives.

Yeah, please do. So, what do you do if you encounter Pomola or how do you know that you're encountering Pomola? So, it's said that it's more than just a weather change. Apparently, people report a low moaning echo in the wind unlike anything that they've ever encountered. So, they said it feels like a breath, like the mountain itself is alive and it's breathing. Like there's this disdain being carried in the wind, a warning, a groan. Some people are like, "Okay, well that's just like the echoing ravines, right? Like the sound can be carried in strange ways through

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these peaks and there's temperature inversions. The wind funnels through the gaps. It can create what could be interpreted as a moan,

okay, or a whisper." Well, people are like, "Okay, well, this only happens at dawn at dusk." And then again the argument is like okay well that's when like most of the temperature fluctuations happen so this could just be that. But there are people who are also like okay but it's more than just the moan in the wind. It feels like something else is up there on the mountain with you. Like you know that there is a presence.

There are spectral silhouettes, inexplicable cold spots. The feeling of being watched.

Many people swear that the mountain itself is alive or it's pimola watching and moving through the force very quickly. It almost reminds me a little bit of like Bigfoot sightings too where people are like I know I was being watched and whatever was watching me was like moving at a really fast spa pace and was like big and like you could just feel what something is like. This reminds me of ple too in Hawaii

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like these really really intense nature spirits. And I think that goes to show that we as humans are so what's the right way to say it? But I just I guess it's nature is so palpable.

Yeah.

That it does feel otherworldly and it's magical.

But it's also like But is it magical because there is more than we understand?

Like it's more than just like we could be killed by nature in any second and it's powerful and

like maybe that maybe there is more. I think there is more. Right. If you just stand I mean I'm thinking of like Pocahontas Colors of the Wind, but like if you just stand outside and let the wind

wherever you are, you don't have to be a mountain, but just like close your eyes and let the wind blow on your skin like there. It is magical. It's magic. Yeah, the wind feels magical. I will say every time I I don't like swimming in the ocean cuz every time I'm in the ocean, I am just with every little wave I'm reminded that I could die in a second. Like this

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is so much more powerful than me. Oh,

if I survive, it wasn't because of me. It was luck.

Yeah.

Actually, one of the most witchy things I've ever done is started when I was a child. Me, my sister, and my cousins came up with a ritual that we did in the ocean.

Really?

And very Moana.

It was our way to ask the ocean to bring waves. And we had this like whole chant that we did with these like hand motions in the water. And we'd say, "Many big waves crash here." And we just do it like over and over.

Yeah.

And did it work?

We thought it worked.

Oh, it might have. Water's alive. It

water's alive. So, I've always been a water witch and I didn't even know it.

Yeah, you should do that again. Water has memory. Maybe it'll it'll

it will remember me. The Atlantic Ocean.

Hey.

spirits in the mountains

Okay. So, people are like, people can say whatever they want. It's a mountain. There's extreme weather. We get it. But that does not it doesn't make sense that like we're hearing a voice within the wind that we're getting all of these warnings that when we don't do what

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we're supposed to do, bad luck follows. There are examples too of not even just people like rolling ankles and stuff after not like heeding the warnings. It's more of like almost like a final destination sort of thing but without death. It's like if you

sometimes with that

sometimes with that

but like if you do something to disrespect the mountain or pomola the next few months are just going to bring like bad luck and bad luck and bad luck.

Oh, it follows you.

Yeah. Your decisions do

similar to how people

Good lesson.

That's a great lesson.

Mhm.

Wow. This is inspirational. If you need to teach your kids manners and how to follow rules, tell them to listen to this episode of Dear Girls.

Bring them to Mount Kataden.

But it's like people who steal rocks from certain places and then send them back because bad luck follows them,

right?

Nature is really all the lessons that you need in life.

Why is this really like touching? This is like I said it wasn't going to be scary. This is piercing my heart.

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Pomola.

People feel pierced by

the feeling of being watched on the knife's edge. There are breath stealing gusts. The sudden onset of fog that will erase the path in front of you. And every time someone tells a story like this, the one common denominator is the feeling of a presence, an external presence outside of just the mountain. So this is why people are like, "This is Pamola." But others are like, or

could it be the little people?

Because there is a group, this is apparently like a very big thing. This is outside of just like the Wabanaki people.

Um cuz I when I was reading about it, there's like a bunch of different

mostly in Canada. The the articles were like depicting the different regions and their beliefs about these little people, but they are rock dwellers that exist within this like indigenous storytelling. Mhm.

They are small forest spirits who were connected in this specific story

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connected to the first man Gluskop who once resided in Mount Katad.

So it's thought that they are also there to protect the mountain and the forest and that when you're feeling like you're being watched and like there's a presence in the woods perhaps these are also the little people.

H

so whatever it is the mountain is very ancient and the beings who guard Mount Gataden are too. Some people bring offerings to show respect for Mount Kataden. And Pomola will be watching, sometimes in the form of wind, maybe as the feeling of peering eyes coming from a rock face or even as a spectral moose. Because for the past century, people have reported seeing this giant pale moose wandering the north woods. And when I first read this, I was like, "Oh, well, it's just like an albino moose. Like, how magical and beautiful." But the sightings have lasted like a hundred years plus,

right? I mean, the first like written record is from 1804, right?

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It's now 2025, guys.

Yeah. So, Pomola also might be watching you in moose form. Next time someone tells you that the mountain is just a rock, remember some places do not need you to believe in them to be true. They only need you to respect them. Pomola isn't just a jump scare. It's not just a warning. He's a boundary. And boundaries kept or broken decide whether you get to go home. Well, I like that. Good lesson.

Yeah, this is a Pomola is a lesson god creature spirit.

So, I haven't been able to find any books written by the native people. They all seem to be written by Right.

the man.

Yeah. which like a lot of people did interview people like I saw people being quoted but it was like such a small thing like taken out of context sometimes and it was

hard to piece it all together

but there is one story that is on a nativelanguages.org website which I think is I feel like

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I've been on there before for one of our

other native nations website. The one thing I did find on this website is interesting because it's very like parallel to Virgin Mary and Jesus. But there's a story of a woman, a Wabanaki woman who didn't believe in the existence of Pomola unless she saw him. And apparently he appeared to her and put her very Twilight put her on his back, carried her up to the top of Mount Kataden.

You think you can outrun me? and then lived there for a year with Pomola and got pregnant.

Oh.

With his child and Pomola was like this child will grow to be a very important person and like almost save humanity.

Who was the person?

Well, so then she gives birth to this child and I guess he was able to point his finger and kill like an entire flock of deer and animals.

Oh, was it his finger? Cuz Okay, I did read a version of this finger. I read

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another version of this where it was like he found a stick and that stick was magic and if he pointed the stick

interesting

whatever he pointed the stick at would die

which is wild.

Yeah. So then this is happening around people and it hap it gets to the point where this child points a finger at a man. The man drops dead. So now it's obviously terrifying.

And Pamola tells this woman to keep her and the son like away from people until he grows into a man and they basically disappeared.

That's sketchy. But maybe maybe Pamola has evolved so much because it's been passed on to his son.

Oh, maybe. Yeah, the moose head is Pomola's son.

Well, cuz in part of the story he points out a moose and the moose falls dead, too. Oh, it's also so interesting because like Glop, who's supposed to be the like the first man, also had kind of interesting powers like that, too. Like I was reading that when Glucop arrived to Earth.

Yeah.

The moose and the squirrels were so

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gigantic, like the most giant

creatures. Scary.

But Gloocop had these powers to shrink them down into the sizes we know them now. And then he took from the bark of an ash tree, he like carved and created the rest of man. Like created people out of this. The stories are so fascinating, but then I also just didn't write a ton down cuz it was like I got conflicting ones and I was like, is this real? Is this true?

Recently, I really wanted to go back and reread some of the Greek mythology.

Mhm.

Because I do think it's so fascinating and there are ties in so many different cultures.

Yeah. All right. Maybe maybe I will.

listener story

Okay. In vein of norththeast Appalachia, Appalachia, I have a listener story from New Jersey Appalachia. Appalachia. I know it's just going to piss everyone off, so I'm saying it both ways. So, it's going to make people mad either way, so I'm just going to say both. This is from our listener, Christine, and she

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says, "Hi there. I came across your YouTube channel recently and saw you covered Appal covered Appalachia. Now, I can't even say it. I almost spit out my coffee when I came across it. I figured I would give it a listen. And I've only ever shared my trail stories with my dad and uncles since they're really the only ones that believe me. Coming across you guys, though, made me realize many other people experienced similar things. So, here we go. I was working at a sleepaway camp in 2021 as a counselor. So, I had another co-leader that I shared a sleeping arrangement with along with 8 to 10 tweenaged New York City kids. We each slept in what's called a Hogan. It looks like those westward expansion wagons with a rounded white tarp and opening in front but no wheels. This holds about 3 to four people inside. This camp is based in New Jersey, our local state forest where Stoke State Forest in High Point State Park. The Appalachin Trail runs through majority of them. As part of the Sleepway Camp itinerary, you would lead these twins on a 1 to two-day hiking trip, including camping near a local trail shelter or at

45:00

a site if there was space. So, we set out for a vagabond on a Friday, and we aimed to be back Monday. Most of our campers were excited, but a few of them were nervous. Our first day of the hike was great. We got through 9 miles and got to a camp shelter. We stayed up late, of course, telling stories we probably shouldn't have been telling 13-year-olds. Then, it was lights out. Me and my co-ounselor, who were sharing a tent, started to hear whispers. Naturally, we flash our flashlights at the girls tents and remind them that it's lights out and to be quiet. We lay back down and hear it again. But this time, we heard someone say our name. So, me and my co-leader, who I'll call Z, step out of our tent, walk over to the girls tent that we thought we heard it from, shake the tent a little, and tell them loudly, "Stop making noise. It's time for sleep. We have an early day tomorrow." We hear nothing. So, we tell them, "Okay, we're going to open the tent." No response. So, we unzip the tent, peek inside, and see them all seemingly asleep. Me and Z look at each other, confused. We peek into another tent. Again, they're asleep. We repeat

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this until we physically see every camper asleep. Z and I feel a little uneasy, but don't say anything about it and just go back to our tent and get in our sleeping bags. The next morning, we still don't talk about it because we didn't want to frighten the kids. We go about our business, planning the hike. We clean up our site and head out for day two. This hike was supposed to be 7 miles. We all thought, "Well, that's nothing. We did 9 miles yesterday." So, we start into the hike. We're very confident. The campers are vibing. I'm leading. Z is the sweep, which I imagine I mean the back. and I get to a fork in the road. We knew we'd get to a fork in the road around 4 to 5 miles into this hike, but weirdly, we reached it really, really early. We also realized that the fork on the map, only included two different paths, which was a different trail we anticipated coming across. But the path in front of us, this fork in front of us, had four different paths. We were confused. We pause. The girls find a log to snack on, and Z and I look at the map. We go over it over and over. We have never gotten lost before and we couldn't figure out why we couldn't see

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this four path fork in the map. At this point, we figured, well, we're here now. One of us has to go check the path to see if there are any other trail markers. We decided I would go because I knew a little more survival skills than Z. Leave Z with the kids.

Also, just breaking off and being alone. I know

at all is a horrible idea.

But what else are you supposed to do? What would you do?

Hunker down and ignore them. stay there forever. Turn back. So, I went down the first path. This had other trail markers that we anticipated. The second path had no trail markers and a lot of trees in the way. I thought maybe it wasn't supposed to be a path or maybe it was an old path. Then the third path got strange. I start to hear the forest and it feels like it's coming alive. Suddenly, I felt like I was being watched. It got foggy and the path grew unclear. I walked slowly and just observed the trees desperately looking for a marker. The trees were brushing so aggressively against each other it sounded like indistinct whispering. I am

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superstitious and I believe in other realms. My family is Dominican and native Peruvian. I grew up believing in nature spirits. So with this background, I stated out loud and firmly, "Hi, my name is Christine. I am just looking for a path for my campers so we can get to safety. I don't mean to disturb you. I am just looking for a trail marker." Suddenly, I get goosebumps all over and the trail in front of me starts to get foggier. I look down at my watch and see that 40 minutes had gone by. I freaked out a little bit and forced myself to walk back. I noticed that the trail back was clearer. No fog. The nature sounds were calm.

So, I turned back to the fog and said, "Thank you." I went back to the group and apologized for being gone for so long. And they looked at me confused. They were like, "What do you mean? It's only been like 5 minutes." Oh, instant chills.

What the [ __ ] I

The mountain is telling her where not to go.

Her watch literally said 40 minutes had passed. I looked at Z confused and she was like, "Yeah, I mean we all agreed if

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10 minutes had passed we would come look for you." I looked at my watch and somehow it rewinded. It showed like they had said only about 6 minutes had passed. I was so confused. But sure enough, as I looked at the fourth path, the trees showed markers of little inward towards the path. I can't believe that happened, and I wasn't sure I wanted to explain it either. So anyway, we go and hike. We find our designated campsite. We settle in. We needed to find somewhere for our designated bathroom use. And we figured we go up the trail a bit and find somewhere. We all left the campsite. It's after dinner, so about 7 to 8. The sun is almost fully set when we start to hear some rustling in the trees to the left of us. So we all stopped because well from the camp we had protocol if there were bears. There was a special camp song to sing. It was loud and rowdy so it helped scare the bears off. So we start screaming this song hopefully scaring the bear. But in between a verse we all got quiet and realize that there's nothing. No animals, no rustling. It was too quiet. So quiet

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that the kids are all now holding on to each other and us. We all aim our flashlights in front of us where we heard the rustling. And I don't believe what I'm about to say. We see what looks like a coyote walking from the left of the trail like it's going towards the right side. We all freeze because we didn't know what to do. And then this coyote starts making crackling noises like a horror movie where the bones crack. We're all frozen watching this creature and its body start to morph into I don't even know what. It starts to stand upright like on its hind legs, but the legs morphed into what looked like human legs. We are all holding on to each other so tight. And then it looks at us. It literally turns its head towards us. But it was so weird. It looked like a human wearing coyote skin. Like it had a hood made of a coyote head. And we were so scared that you could literally hear all of us gasp in shock. Then the thing turned back in the direction it was walking toward the right side of the trail and disappeared.

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Oh. All of the kids began asking, "What was that? Did you see that? what the [ __ ] kind of animal was that? And Z and I are speechless. We didn't know what to say. We didn't know how to address it. We just told the kids, "Let's um let's just turn back and go back to camp." We went to sleep in our tents, but the kids came running to our tent, saying that someone was in the forest. We didn't know what to do. We started to feel helpless. Our best idea was that we could move all of our tents very, very close together, and we made it so that the opening of our tents were all together in the center. None of the openings faced the forest. But terribly enough, it started to pour. and I mean torrential downpour, thunder, and lightning that made the ground shake. One of our campers had a larger fivep person tent, and we all decided to find a way to fit all of us in that fivep person tent. It was so snug with our sleeping bags, but we made it work. But then toward the witching hours around 3:00 a.m., we heard a scream. This insanely deafening scream as if someone was being murdered. We're all scared shitless, and I peek out to see if

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anything's out there. And nothing. It didn't sound like an animal and it didn't even sound like a human. It just sounded awful. At this point, we were all shaken up, ready for this weekend to end. We tried convincing the kids, "Listen, this is the last night. All we have to do is hike back tomorrow." But none of them were willing to. So, I messaged our camp director, our emergency contact, and asked, "Hey, can you come get us?" So, he came with the van to take us back. Initially, he tried to talk us into staying, but once I told him about the kids and the thing we saw, he said, "All right, let's get those bags in the trailer." Me and Z looked at each other like, "Oh my god, he knows." Because this is a stoic man. He was friendly. He had tons of dad jokes, but some things he just didn't fool about. He was a stern southern man that grew up hunting and living in these woods. He had a way about him, but in a good way. Like the protective uncle of the camp. The ride back to camp was so eerie. You have to pass this steep hill over a creepy bridge and we get to the hill and a fog starts to roll in. We see what looks

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like a hitchhiker along the road and all the kids are yelling, "Oh my god, did you see that person?" And the camp director goes, "If they did, you don't stop for a hitchhiker in these parts of the woods. This part of the woods is real old. Many things out here you don't want to meet." And of course,

I send the kids to camp there in the first place to hike

for two days,

right? And a couple of the girls ask, "What do you mean? Who do you not want to meet? Did we meet something?" And he just says, "I won't tell you the things I seen, but I will tell you. If you think you saw something, no, you didn't. And if you think you heard something, just keep moving and mind your own business."

Yep.

So, at this point, we get to camp and he just reminds us all to stay safe and call if we need anything. That night at camp, we all felt strange falling asleep, but we woke up feeling rested. I've never experienced anything like this before, but once I shared it with my dad and uncles, they didn't seem surprised at all. They just reassured me that I'd be okay, but to remember the

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Appalachia region has been around for centuries and has a rich history. So, it would be wise to remember that plenty of spirits and entities likely live there. Now, when I go hiking, I make sure I have an offering and I say a prayer. Nothing too intense has ever happened to me again. I do get sounds here and there, but nothing like that. Wow. Best Christine. And Christine shared the digital version of the trail map. It says that there is one area that has a fork, but it's not where they were hiking and it's not the one that they saw. H. This is so freaky cuz it's like it does kind of feel like everything was trying to warn them and keep them safe and like move them in the direction that they needed to be, but at the same time it's also what's the difference between something being scary but helpful and something being scary that just crossed your path and might want to circle back for you.

Well, also what's to say it was trying to warn them and not it was following them,

right? until Christine was like, "I'm

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just trying to get my campers to safety. Please stop scaring me."

Right? Because also she was gone for 40 minutes. So like she could have been a missing person, right? Like it captured her and then maybe once it realized someone was looking like they were kids and were involved. Maybe they second guessed themselves. The fog released her. The fact that it was 40 minutes for her but 5 minutes for everyone else. Oh my god, this is so This freaks me the [ __ ] out. It's almost like every scary thing that you can experience in Appalachia Christine experience,

right?

The whispering your name and it not being any of the campers. A flesh pedestrian.

Yes. That Oh, sick. And everyone seeing it.

Yeah.

I can't believe it just like kept moving. It makes me think of how animals get bigger when they're hunting, you know,

because it felt like it was almost scared of humans and it wanted to look more intimidating, which is why it stood on its hind legs,

got taller, showed this really creepy

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form, half human, half coyote,

which also like could it be a werewolf?

You could be anything.

Team werewolf.

Team werewolf.

I don't know. Oh, it's scary though and I don't want to hike that trail. But I do that camp sounds cool. I've never heard of a camp where you sleep in those old carriages.

Mhm. Huh.

Things are in the woods. You guys proceed with caution

and respect nature. And if you are camping or hiking and there's a change in weather, maybe take that as a warning. Try again another day

or just go home, pack it up. Yeah.

Camp outside in your backyard.

Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Get a skylight installed on your bedroom. That's all you need. Oh man. Well, thank you guys for coming back. See us over at Crimes of Yes. And it's officially spooky season. Our next episode really marks the beginning. We have things for you. We say don't go outside, don't go camping, and next week

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we might be outside. As in we will be. We'll see you there. But uh thank you everyone for listening. If you have emails, if you know of books or any references of Pomola, share them with us. You can email us at two girls podcast@gmail.com. Join us over on Patreon where we have bonus episodes. We have ad free and oneweek early episodes. We have campfire stories. We have book club, which next book club, we don't have a date yet, but we're reading here lies a vengeful [ __ ]

Spotify also has it free. Like if you're a Spotify premium member, Yeah. to listen.

Oh, okay. I also am reading We Live Here Now, and it's so good.

Is it?

It's so spooky.

Oh, highly recommend. Anyway, we love you all and thank you to Jamie who edits and produces our podcast. We're very grateful for you and we love you all and we will see you on the other side.

Very spooky.