TRUE POSSESSION HORROR STORY | The Bizarre Haunting of Eleonore Zugun (Ep 395)

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Eleanor's hands and fingers would suddenly and repeatedly be pricked as though by needles and sometimes the needles would literally be there.

Very spooky.

Danny Phantom.

[laughter]

Welcome to two girls one ghost.

Two girls one [sighs] ghost.

Uh we are your ghostesses Edward Cullen and Danny Phantom your paranormal crushes for today.

Corrine's paranormal crushes.

[laughter]

Yeah, but I guess both of mine.

I once chose Edward over Jacob. So

That's a big choice.

Really my crush was what's what's the

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little one but

[laughter]

the little guy with the blonde hair. I think the actor's name is Jackson.

In Twilight?

Yeah, he's one of the siblings.

He's partnered with Alice.

You kind of look like Alice right now.

kind of look like Alice right now.

the Alice hair right

the thing is this wig is going to come off in two seconds cuz it's one of the most itchy thing in the world and two looks nothing like Danny Phantom's hair.

Yeah.

Oh Jasper, that's the name I was looking for.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's also giving we were talking about this before but we can't remember her name the X-Men woman who controls the weather.

Yeah, it's giving a little deranged. No, but I like it. And now it's gone.

[laughter]

I mean have you ever seen a pregnant Edward Cullen? [clears throat] I'm not so sure. I'm at the point of pregnancy where I'm so uncomfortable. I can't reach anything. Yesterday I thought that when I was outside I kept thinking like an ant was crawling on my toes. No, my toe hair blowing in the wind cuz I haven't been able to reach it to get rid of it.

hairs to shave them?

Yeah.

I shaved mine this morning sorry to brag.

2:00

So far

my knees to play get my

I'll pluck your toe nails. [laughter] I'll pluck your hair.

When the wind is too high. [laughter]

It feels like an ant is crawling.

is rolling in. Oh, storm. That's the X-Men character's [laughter] name.

Is it? Oh, I don't watch X-Men.

Okay, well, it's all coming back to me.

I had this morning Well, last night I had a dream that you went into labor and you responded saying, "I woke up still pregnant yet again." But by the time this episode comes out, you will have child.

Yeah, it's like not fun anymore. So,

I don't think this pregnancy has been very fun for you.

No, I didn't feel this way with Noah at the very end. Like I was like

Yeah.

outside relaxing in my like dress or whatever when my contractions started.

Yeah.

I'm done.

But we're not cuz it's spooky season and we have scary stories for you and we did not do this the last two episodes and we apologize. So, we'll do it now.

This is a good one to to do it before.

We'll set intentions.

Mhm.

We are going to talk about is it a

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possession?

Yes.

I didn't do the research so I don't know about the case. So, sensitive material coming ahead, haunting material to follow. That does mean sometimes that you're opening a door and you might find ghosties coming in being like, "Oh, you left the door open for me. Great, I'm going to sit in your passenger seat or watch you sleep tonight."

Yeah.

And if you don't want that, we suggest that you don't listen while driving or maybe don't listen

home if it's really paranormally active.

But if you do listen, wherever you decide to listen, we highly recommend setting intentions.

Mhm.

And that can look like closing your eyes, just stating out loud, "We are surrounded by love and light. Nothing of ill intent is welcome here." You can also say boy, bye to anything negative.

Oh, my ears are ringing. Trust your

Trust your ears. Trust your pets. Trust your children if they start having nightmares and just do what you need to do to close off your

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your and say, "Nope, this is mine and not yours. And even though we were gossiping about you, it was supposed to be behind your back."

Yeah, you're not supposed to hear it.

Yeah, exactly. This is mean girl energy today.

[laughter]

And we're not inviting you into our gossip circle.

Yeah. Perfect.

Great. Lovely. Good luck. We're heading

taking the devil's money

to Romania, 1925.

Okay.

So, maybe having a century of distance between this possession might aid in people being less haunted.

Maybe. There's a girl walking through a village to her grandmother's house. To grandmother's house we go.

Over the river and through the woods.

She's just 11 years old.

Okay.

Her name is Eleonore Zugun. It's spelled z u g u n, but when I looked up the pronunciation it said Zugun.

Zugun.

Okay.

Sorry, if that is incorrect. Eleonore spots a coin lying on the road and she bends down to pick it up. But, Eleonore's not alone. She's with her cousins and one of her cousins warns her, "Do not take that money. That is the devil's money." Which is like,

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that's something your cousin would say so that you leave it there and then they can snatch up the money for themselves, right?

Also so interesting because finding a coin is usually good luck.

Right. So long as it's

Heads up.

Heads up.

The other day for something I flipped a coin just to see if I It was deciding if I should go out to a second thing late at night. And I flipped a coin seven times and I said, "If I get heads, I'll go." Tails every single time.

[laughter]

So, you really wanted to go if you kept trying.

Well, the people I was with I tried again, try again and every time tails.

So, you like, "Sorry, did you go?"

go home. No, I went home.

Good, listen. Listen to the coin. I mean, the odds of that happening are crazy. You're not supposed to go.

Yeah.

Okay, so Eleonore, she does not listen to her cousin. She picks up the coin anyway. And on their way to their grandmother's house, she stops at one of the stores and buys a bunch of sweets with the money.

Aw.

She eats all of them. She does not share with her cousins.

Is this just a story of like, don't eat too many sweets on Halloween?

[clears throat and laughter]

This might be the warning.

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[gasps]

Listen. Listen to your cousins.

I'm like, [laughter] I don't know.

I thought you were going to say to listen to Edward Cullen.

Listen to Edward Cullen.

Okay, so finally they get to grandmother's house.

Eleonore is filled with her sweets from her found [clears throat] coin. And her grandmother finds out that she had done this, picked up a coin. And she gets reprimanded so hard by her grandma. Her grandma's like, "I cannot believe that you swallowed the devil." That is what they're saying.

the drama.

She says, "You will never be free from him."

Well, with this attitude.

It's so dramatic.

No, duh. She got possessed.

Right here. Oh, yeah. So, like you're like, "Whoa, that's a bit harsh. Like that's a bit of an overreaction." And you know, like sometimes stories like this are warning to kids or like things like that are are warnings for children to behave or just like to avoid danger, but um yeah, this one was a pretty dark warning. And it doesn't really seem like a life lesson. Like don't take a coin off the streets cuz that's swallowing the devil.

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Right. What an interesting lesson.

Yes. For Eleonore, this was not a life lesson to be learned. This was a warning because Eleonore would soon face the devil.

Poor Eleonore, she's 11.

Yeah, she's 11. This is the possession of Eleonore Zugun, one of the most tested and documented cases of poltergeist activity during the 20th century. It's another case where I'm like, how do we not research this before?

Yeah.

I think cuz it was old enough

Kind of similar to the I would make it two episodes ago, three episodes ago.

There are so many similarities

The Amherst mystery.

The Amherst mystery. There's so many similarities where you're going to be like, "Oh my god."

Cuz they follow the MO. They have They have their motives and modus operandi. Is that MO? Yeah.

[laughter]

I don't know. You're doing better than me here. It is crazy and I think that in the past, too, when we research possession cases and haunted cases, so many of them seem maybe like slightly more attractive when we're researching them because it's like, "This inspired this movie." Or something like that. And so, I guess we

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glazed over this one. But here we are.

heard of it.

Okay. So, to give some background, Eleonore Zugun was born on May 24th, 1913 in the village of Talpa in southern Romania. Her family it was a family of farmers that lived in very rural area and as seen many times in rural areas and places like this there they are deeply deeply rooted in tradition. And Eleonore's village was exactly that. When her mom died when she was very very young the community stepped up around her and helped raise her warning her of the dangers of the world attempting to teach her how to survive evil that existed. So there was a lot of like superstitions within the village and like neighboring villages as well. So basically like one day evil will try to tempt you but just behave and listen to our warnings. That temptation would come in February of 1925 when Eleonore 11 years old was walking with some of her cousins to visit her grandmother in a nearby village called Buhai. On the way there she spots a coin laying on the road. One of her cousins warned her don't touch that because an evil spirit

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likes to leave coins to tempt the innocent so you're taking the devil's money. But she's 11 she's like that's a ridiculous story. I'm a preteen.

Also at this time like I imagine any found money would be like a welcome.

Yeah.

I don't know. It feels like good luck like you were saying like oh my gosh.

Well and also like ooh what prize for me?

Right.

Yeah and it really was just for her because she ignores her cousin stops at the store gets some sweets does not share with her other cousins that are on the journey to grandma's house.

Sounds like me.

[laughter]

But also like in her defense they were just telling her not to pick it up. It's like well then if you don't want it.

Yeah.

Well and the story goes she didn't share but did the cousins even want it if they're

If they're like that's the devil's money.

That's the devil's money but she just bought the devil's sweets.

Exactly.

So who knows but grandma finds out says you've swallowed the devil and you will never be free from him. Very ominous.

My grandma gave me an American girl doll. Her grandma gave her the devil.

Gave her the devil and quite literally

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the very next day stones began to fly.

There's no

escalation it's just straight to it. Literal stones were being hurled against the grandmother's house breaking the windows and all of it seemed to be targeted at Eleanor, like wherever she was. Small objects started moving around her. And this was was when she was like, "Oh, no. Maybe I did swallow the devil, and that was a devil's money." So, she's starting to get freaked out. The warnings were very real, paranormal activity, no ramp-up period, just like straight to hurling rocks. But have no fear, because this will be over soon, right? She's visiting her grandmother's house in another village. She's going to be gone in a few days, back home, gets to avoid the poltergeist, we hope. But no, because 3 days later, she returned home, and the entity followed her all the way back. Her family was not a like, let's [ __ ] around and find out type of crew, because this was a community of very superstitious people. So, immediately, they called the local priest. The priest came over, witnessed stones being hurled at the windows. One

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went through a window and landed on the kitchen table. He then picked it up, marked it with a cross. I mean, this is This is I know I keep relating everything back to Witches' Bay, because I'm just going to obsess about it for like 3 years.

Yeah.

This feels like a scene from Witches' Bay. A demon throws a rock at him.

Mhm.

He grabs the rock, draws a cross, and throws it back.

[laughter]

Yeah.

Like hurls it back out the window. But that did not protect Eleanor, because instead, seconds later, the stone came flying all the way back through the window again. So, basically, marking something with a cross was not going to do anything at all.

Yeah. Demon's like, "That did nothing."

Right. And so, the priest, you would think, is like, "Okay, don't worry. I have another thing to do. I have a rule book and steps to follow." For now, he goes, "Oh, well, that was everything I thought of doing." So, he left and never came back.

Ever?

No. And this object-wielding entity would follow Eleanor everywhere. At school, teachers started reporting that objects were moving without explanation, and one teacher said he watched a can of water on one end of a bench rise 18

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inches into the air, rotate in half circle, and then float to the other end without spilling a single drop.

Okay, well, what if she's actually Matilda, and she's not actually possessed? does

like that.

Yeah.

It is really we're going to There's like connections to the Conjuring house. There's connections to the subject you covered

Okay.

Okay.

weeks ago. There's a lot of like what's going on. Is it Eleanor or is it something else?

Right.

Or is it a combination?

Yeah, it could be. And it's also weird cuz it like just start happening all at once. Right.

After being warned of taking the devil's money. So that's why it feels like it's something else.

I don't know. Like the energy that an 11-year-old would put out after like being berated by your cousins and then your grandma saying the devil's going to follow you. I'd be pissed.

Yeah, heightened emotions. She might be very Matilda here.

Yeah.

Okay, so a lot is happening at school so much so the teachers are making like actual documented reports of what's going on and filing these statements. And kids and parents are now talking about it because kids are going home.

Mhm.

It's a talk around town or talk around this village. And so now the whole town

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knows that Eleanor is the responsible party for this activity. She took payment from the devil and it's her fault. This little 11-year-old

what's going around town.

Yep. So now her desperate family is like we have to do something. She cannot stay here. She's affecting the entire town. And she needs She needs help. So they send her to the monastery of Gorroway hoping that this holy ground and living with all the sisters and all the prayer

But she's 11.

And she's 11. Would break whatever attached itself to her. So they literally just shipped her off to the monastery. Priests conducted an exorcism on her, but all of the activity just continued. So it did nothing. Her disturbances quote unquote the disturbances continued. And so this was another moment where the church would bail on her. So they're like, "Oops, we can't help you. Exorcism didn't work. So now you got to go somewhere else." And so I think they work with her family and they ship her off to a mental asylum.

Oh, I was going to say at least they sent her to this monastery, but

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Nope. So then 11 years old away from her family with an entity stalking her, she is shipped from strange place to strange place.

And you know she's not being treated well.

No. She does end up somewhere that treats her well.

Okay, good.

So that that is to come. So we have some hope for Elanor very soon.

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the paranormal investigation

While Eleonore sat in the asylum, the story got out. So, prior to this it was just like a story within her community, within the like children and parents and and people at school. But now a local Romanian newspaper ran a piece about the case on April 18th, 1925, and this started to spread, and people are reading it, and then eventually reached a German spiritualist organization in Berlin. So, this organization, they caught wind of everything through the

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newspaper article. And they sent someone over to the asylum to investigate.

Wait, that's good.

His name was Fritz Grünwald or Grünwald, and he is a very interesting character in this story because he actually dies before he can tell us what he found.

Interesting.

He was a trained engineer. He looked into cases like this looking for anomalies and like definitely operated with skepticism, so it wasn't like he was out to disprove

Mhm.

things off the bat. He wasn't like, "Oh, I mean I like catch people in the act" sort of guy, but he was more like, "I need to understand from like an analytical perspective everything that's happening, what could be contributing to this."

Sure. Scientific method.

Totally. So, he goes to Romania in May of 1925. He checks out Eleonore from the asylum. I don't know if he needed parents' permission.

Yeah, I was going to say, I'm like, "Wait, why is that so easy?" There's a strange man

disturbing that

an 11-year-old girl out of the asylum.

But he brings her back to the monastery. So, she's staying at the monastery. He's not just like, "Come home with me, little girl."

Okay, good.

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So, she goes to the monastery, and he would observe her there for several days.

Okay.

He then published a short statement saying simply that he was convinced the phenomena he had witnessed was genuinely paranormal.

Okay, so we at least have that.

Mhm.

But then he died of a heart attack before he was able to write his full report.

So, we don't actually know fully what he witnessed.

Does he not have a journal?

I don't know.

Someone's Someone Go check your basement.

Find this journal.

Find his journal.

So, he passes away. Eleanor's still haunted, right? It seems like everyone who comes in contact with her is just like, "Yep, you're haunted." And then doesn't actually do anything to help her. But now, with all this like hubbub about everything that's going on in multiple countries and multiple organizations hearing or like catching wind of what's going on with Eleanor, she caught the attention of royalty.

The queen?

Enter the countess Wassilko von Serecki. Her first name is Zoe. So, I'll either call her

to say countess is maybe what we call her.

Yeah, and maybe I'll call her Zoe or countess. Yeah.

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One of the two.

Okay, so the countess, she's 28 years old. She's a Romanian-speaking Austrian aristocrat. Her family had once owned the land that Eleanor's family farmed.

Okay.

So, they had a lot of ties to like

Sure.

the area. But like things were changing and being sold off. Okay, but she had spent six years studying parapsychology and attending investigative sittings with mediums.

I feel like if you are a countess, especially in that era of time, you could kind of just like do whatever you wanted.

Mhm.

So, the fact that she chose to study parapsychology makes me very happy for

So cool.

Yeah.

Yeah, she was one of us.

Yeah.

Um

She's a big fan of Two Girls One Ghost.

Totally, but like she also would be someone who writes in and says, "I'm a skeptic."

But he has a lot of stories.

stories, yeah.

Yeah, because she was super intrigued with the paranormal, but she was also someone who spent a lot of time keeping an eye out for frauds and trying to like expose frauds.

Fair. Fair. Fair.

So, it wasn't that she didn't believe in the paranormal, but she thought that there was a lot of like fraudulent psychic activity in the area, and she

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was She was um making sure people weren't falling victim to all these frauds. So, she was into that before she met Eleanor.

Okay.

So now, she hears of Eleanor and her interest is piqued. So, the countess, Zoe, goes and meets Eleanor for the first time in September of 1925. So, I believe Eleanor's still 11. So, a lot's just like happening at once.

Seriously.

And unlike before where she was pretty skeptical of psychics and uncovered tricks and deception, she meets Eleonore and is pretty much immediately convinced that what she's seeing is real. That this little girl is plagued with a poltergeist. Within months, Eleonore had left Romania and went to go live with the Countess in Vienna.

Wow. So at first you're like, yes.

Wait. Eleonore is this the magical place that she gets to live?

Yeah.

She lives with the Countess.

Yes. It's not like in a castle, but it's amazing. Like she's in this nice aristocrat's apartment in Vienna, Austria. Like so nice. It's definitely way way

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better than the asylum or monastery, for sure. But let's remember, she's in a new country with people who are kind of strangers.

Absolutely strangers.

Yes. There's another language being spoken around her. She's not being brought there as a friend initially, but under scientific observation.

Mhm.

And at this point she's just turned 12 years old.

Poor baby.

And this is when activity starts to ramp up even more.

Like I just wonder Listen, and I'm speaking out of my bum here, which has a major wedgie, but I I just wonder if maybe we fought demons with like love. Like if you just held this 12-year-old girl and just gave her all of your love and hugged her.

Like would it go away?

Could you defeat the demons?

Right. Because is a demon even a demon or is it a projection or thing that eats is like formed and eats off of our own Right.

energy.

Negative energies around us.

Although I don't know cuz there's so many other

There's so yeah. This is why I I just

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I'm throwing it out there as a let's try love.

All you need is love. Love. Unfortunately, things are going to escalate.

[laughter]

So the first phase had what researchers called recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis. So basically, stones are being thrown, objects are being moved, kind of associated with poltergeist activity for centuries, but it's also like why are these things moving? Is she responsible for it? Is it Is it a poltergeist?

Right.

But things are falling for no reason. It happened at Eleonore's grandma's house. It happened at her home, her school, wherever she went. But in Vienna, starting in early 1926, something new began. A new stage of the haunting. Eleonore began being physically attacked.

Okay, so now we can't really say it's Matilda.

Right. Scratches, welts, bite marks appeared on her skin. And these appeared in real time, in daylight, in front of witnesses, on parts of her body that she could not reach. The bite marks were

23:00

measured and photographed, and they said that it did look a lot like the pattern of her own teeth. But the bite marks would be on her face, the back of her neck, her head, like places she physically could not like reach around and bite. Yet it was the impression of the teeth that was her dental impression.

Yeah.

Very freaky.

That is really, really freaky.

Scratches would materialize before people's eyes. She would just be like sitting there with everyone and suddenly scream and cry out. And people quickly go over and tend to her, and watch as these marks would form on her skin.

Jeez.

So all these people are experiencing this around her, but we haven't talked about Eleonore's response, and like what she thinks of everything so far. So she was actually she gave the entity a name. She called it Dracu, the devil. And instead of responding in terror, she kind of treated it not with love, but like more like it was a nuisance.

Which I appreciate, cuz I do feel like sometimes that attitude does help them go away.

Yeah, or like at least prevents it from

24:00

escalating as quickly as it could.

fear is like the worst thing you can give it.

Mhm.

Yeah, and she was trying to do some things to appease it. So like she would leave out food sometimes to see if like maybe that peace offering would let Dracu leave her alone for a bit.

maybe the candy's what drew it in.

Right, he just needed those You didn't share your candies with me.

Yeah.

I was supposed to be for you to go purchase that cuz I can't purchase it because I'm just an entity, and then give it to me.

And because you didn't, now I'm going to try and possess you and taste it inside of you.

Ooh, that's a disturbing way to put it, but kind of accurate because Drakul was never satisfied, no matter how much she gave him, no matter how many offerings. The devil was there and he was going to take Eleonore. By January of 1926, formal scientific investigations began in Vienna and some 18 people spent time with her and the Countess becoming regular witnesses, including Austrian scientists, the Countess's household staff, like everyone who worked there also, whether they wanted to or not,

25:00

ended up being witnesses.

This is so tough cuz like and we'll even talk about it in next week's episode, but I just this poor girl is now without her family.

Mhm.

And I feel like the lack of family support probably makes it worse and she's so young and on her own.

Yeah.

me sad.

It's like you need you need help at like someone needs to buy you clothes, someone needs to to feed you, someone needs to talk through life with you, someone needs to help like raise you, be a parent.

And right now it's it's the Countess who's in her late 20s.

of being used as like a test subject, which like even if they have the best intentions in the world, there is a they're gaining something out of this experiment more than Eleonore.

Yeah, it's not out of like the goodness of her heart that she is taking care of this plagued, now kind of orphaned girl.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, there's a ton of different witnesses, ton of different researchers brought in and over the course of the investigation the Countess logged every incident that she personally witnessed

26:00

along with the names of cooperating witnesses. She logged some 3,060 total incidents. That is a ton.

That is so many.

884 of those had at least one other witness present.

Damn.

Huge number. Also beginning in late March of 1926, something even more disturbing started and this is going to remind you so much of the great Amherst mystery.

Okay.

Eleonore's hands and fingers would suddenly and repeatedly be pricked as though by needles and sometimes the needles would literally be there. What is that? I don't know.

How? Why?

materialize out of nowhere just like in your story. And sometimes be found embedded in her flesh and no one could account for where the needles came from. There were no needles missing from anywhere. It just like suddenly appeared out of nowhere and is now stuck in the body of a child.

Yeah.

Geez.

Yep. So that's super weird.

And terrible for the child. Yeah.

27:00

Okay, so now enter Harry Price because it's his era, so why wouldn't he be here?

[laughter]

I hope he wasn't like a terrible man.

I know. He does his way into so many of these stories.

Yeah.

Yeah, and if you have no idea who this guy is, he basically is one of the most famous psychical psychical I can never say the word psychical researchers in British history and was very present at this time in the age of spiritualism and

Yeah, his name comes up a lot in possession cases or exorcisms and paranormal stories.

Mhm.

And I feel like I've I've put him on my list to do a full episode on, but it's almost impossible to just do one episode on him.

Well, cuz he's touched like every case.

Yeah.

Yeah.

a 40 100% decade span.

Okay, so Price Harry Price, he hears about Eleanor and he's like, "Oop, I'm getting myself on the train to Vienna. I got to see this girl." So he arrives there on April 30th, 1926. He observes Eleanor over three separate sessions at the Countess' apartment and then he

28:00

published his observations in the Journal of the American Society of Psychical Research. He wrote that she was very intelligent. She was very bright. She had a very sunny disposition.

What?

There is a spider on my

Where?

Right here.

Okay.

Well, I'll let you do your thing, but

It's so little. It's a baby.

further away. It is a tiny little spider.

Anyway, I hope it didn't come out of my wig or something.

Oh, that gave me that's the most horrifying thing that we're we've talked about today.

I can't. It's off. Sorry.

Fend fend the tarantula.

Yeah, get get get. Okay.

[clears throat]

So

Oh god.

[laughter]

It's scarier than the topic at hand.

I truly my whole body

[laughter]

is I'm not well.

No. I'm like, why is it suddenly right here? Where did it come from?

[gasps]

Oh.

Okay, now I want to take everything off. I'm [laughter] so so freaked out. Oh my god, I got to The peacoat is gone.

naked.

I'll I'll keep the blue shirt on cuz I

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it was mine and has been washed a million times. Not new out of the package. Okay. So he wrote that she was like very nice and and upbeat and kind and and seems very smart, but that she behaved a lot younger than she was.

Yeah, cuz she has trauma.

[laughter]

And she was abandoned by her family.

Right. And like does she have friends her age? I only hear of her interacting with adults.

Yeah.

So kind of weird. So while observing her, he said a steel letter opener flew across the room and there was also a small mirror that floated over partition between rooms. A cushion moved off of a chair while both he and the countess and Eleanor were in his direct line of sight. So it just they couldn't have done any sort of like trickery.

And he watched bite marks and scratches appear on her skin and described them as {quote} teeth marks, long scratches, oval, annular, elliptical, and other marks of varying shapes.

Poor child.

Yeah. And so just like the countess, Harry Price thought that oh my god, I'm

30:00

witnessing a legitimate case of paranormal activity. There's no trickery. This is not a scam. And so he is like, I need to invite you guys to come to London so I can I can research you more. They go and they arrive

is really getting to see the world, but it also further and further away from her family.

From her little tiny village

Mhm.

picking up the devil's money to traveling with a countess and some of the like most influential names

Yeah.

in the paranormal world at the time.

I hope she's getting paid, which she probably isn't.

Oh, definitely not.

Yeah.

No. So she goes with the Countess in September of 1926. And what follows will be one of the most documented paranormal investigations of the 20th century. They're at Price's National Laboratory.

Casual.

Eleanor is examined by doctors, scientists. She's photographed, she's monitored. The skin markings appear repeatedly under controlled conditions. So, again, this is just like more and more proof that she is not faking it in

31:00

any way.

The entity, which Eleanor had named Draco, would respond to investigators through tappings. So, they would ask questions and it would tap like so many numbers number of taps in response.

Yeah.

And would also move objects from room to room. So, like something they'd be looking for something. It's the classic like

Yeah.

you look for your cell phone, you can't find it.

And then it shows up.

Yeah. Yeah.

Or like whatever. It would respond to their questions and their asks. So, the story's covered by the London newspapers. Reporters start coming, more scientists are coming. The director of Bethlehem Psychiatric [clears throat] Hospital also came to observe and confirm what everyone was saying. And a documentarist actually came and filmed her and captured the skin marking phenomena.

Do we not have that video?

No.

It's hard to find.

But there are a bunch of pictures of the markings included if you're watching on YouTube. Karl Zimmer came and brought in multiple doctors with him too. And plenty of skeptics and professionals were coming and going. So, basically like she has been seen by countless

32:00

door.

It is.

Yeah.

She's examined, she's photographed, she's tested, she's poked, she's prodded. She has strangers touching her.

for her.

Yes. Very exhausting and kind of gross for this young little girl who was now 13 years old at the time. So, two years of being haunted by this entity Draco.

Mhm.

pretty quickly they sent her off. At some point Eleanor would start to go into these sort of trances and she would write, aka automatic writing. Automatic writing we've talked about about it before. It's basically where like someone goes into some sort of trance and acts as the sort of medium or like vessel for a spirit to come through and write a message or draw something. So, Eleanor her like reading and writing level was academically pretty low. She was a bright girl, but like she didn't have a ton of schooling.

Yeah.

Yeah, in the sessions what came out when she was automatic writing was like people were saying that it was a bit beyond her own level of comprehension.

33:00

Interesting.

So, it was very different from what she was

that it was like a paranormal thing.

Yes.

Are you bothered that I'm letting the

It's small.

spider

Okay.

Is it going to go into your computer?

Oh, god. [sighs] I hope not.

Just hanging out.

Yeah. It explored drinks so it didn't go in my shoe or something.

Yeah, and I was worried about that, too.

Yeah. So, the Countess and now having been around Eleanor for like over a year starts to develop her own theory about the phenomena. And she said that she thinks it's actually Eleanor's unconscious mind responsible for everything.

Matilda.

Very Matilda. You called it right away. So, she's not a fraud, but she's not conscious of what she's doing.

And then also how like there's a part of me that it feels easier to say demon.

It's like trying to hang and leave. Here, why don't I help you out here? Where do you want to go?

Is there a new like school pet, class pet? Where you going to put it?

I don't know.

I just don't want it near me.

Should I bring it outside?

Sure.

Show the camera.

34:00

A spider was saved today.

Yes.

But what

Just a wee baby.

But what I was saying was even if that's true that it is something that she's not in control of or conscious of with her own mind, it almost feels easier to say it's a demon because like that feels more understandable

Yeah.

than this idea that we have that much power within our own brains.

Right. Like it's saying that she has some

Totally. Like unconscious psychic force that she's unknowingly unlocking.

Could we like if we could tap into that and all of us have that power?

Oh my god, yeah.

Scary.

But okay, so the Countess says that she thinks it's generated by repressed emotion and physically, like, externally manifesting, which makes sense given her conditions and everything that she's going through. The trauma that she's been through. Yeah. And also, up until the moment where she picked up the coin on her way to her grandma's house, we have no backstory on, like, what her family dynamic was like, what she'd been through, her relationship was with her

35:00

grandma or her cousins or like it seems like it came out of nowhere, but it probably didn't. It was boiling and boiling and boiling and boiling. Okay, and now this part is very disturbing. But, it's kind of a sign of the times. Okay? So, the countess also believed that Eleanor had developed powerfully conflicted sexual feelings about her father. Like, her own father. Okay? But, this was also a period of the era of Freud Okay. where Freud is like, "All your issues stem back to you having a crush on your mommy or daddy." Which says a lot about Freud himself, I think. So, there's a lot of influence there. So, I don't know if without Freud if the countess would have Interesting. said the same thing, maybe it was just like the popular opinion to have.

Okay, well, my brain goes to something even more disturbing.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, was there abuse?

Right.

And there was mention of it from Eleanor.

Mhm. Mhm.

Which led the countess to believe this.

Which in your coverage a couple weeks ago of What was it? The Great

Great Amherst Mystery.

36:00

Great Amherst Mystery. I had mentioned the movie An American Haunting, which if people haven't seen it, sorry to spoil it 20 some years later, but it's all, basically, a metaphor for first daughter being abused by her father and the family doing

Again, evidence that humans are worse than any paranormal being.

Mhm. Actually, this is like so, like, gross that I did this and sometimes I think back to it and I'm like, I can't believe that like

What are you about to confess?

like report me.

What are you about to reveal about yourself?

I took the screenwriting or not screenwriting, the um playwriting class and one of our things was like to write the most disturbing and just like a really dark play.

Mhm. And I wrote about royalty. It was a royal family and the scene was they were going to celebrate the daughter's 16th birthday.

Mhm.

And she thinks that her 16th birthday is going to be this like wonderful magical thing where like she becomes the princess or whatever.

37:00

It's uncovered that becoming a princess is actually becoming enslaved to your own father.

Interesting. I mean, I'm not surprised I didn't report that because I did some really [ __ ] up [ __ ] in my screenwriting classes and way worse than that. But

you go around the class and everyone's like reading your play and like

The The prompt was to do the most [ __ ] up thing.

And also it was royalty. There's a lot of incest there.

Oh, absolutely. They used to literally for consummating the marriage, people at the party would go watch you have sex.

watch. Yeah.

Oh.

To make sure it happened.

My god.

Yeah.

Anyhow.

Humans are disturbing. Okay. So

Yeah, that part's um

gross.

But basically the countess was like, "Perhaps all of these feelings are manifesting because it's some sort of like unconscious self-punishment that she's putting herself through based on what is happening to her."

Sure.

Harry Price largely agreed. He was like, "That sounds like that makes sense." So I don't know what Eleanor said or what she agreed or if

Cuz this whole story is not even Eleanor's. Yeah.

really consider her at all except for

38:00

the fact that she has just like admitted that this entity is named Draco.

Yeah.

Otherwise it heavily relies on what is reported by the people who are researching her. Okay. So with all of these different theories swirling around, people are basically like, "Okay, if Eleanor's mind believes that she's being attacked by Draco with enough conviction,

Mhm.

could she actually be creating these wounds on her own body?" Like the teeth marks that are on her collarbone, on her cheek, on the back of her neck. Like is it actually her teeth?

Well, cuz there's also I mean, I feel like there've been studies where people have nightmares and they get hurt in the dreams and they wake up with those wounds and it's like your mind convinces your body that you're actually injured and then it like forms an injury.

Even waking there's been studies like that where like someone where you go into like a meditative state and convince yourself that you have a bruise on your arm or something and then a bruise will appear.

Yeah. The mind is powerful. I I'll give it that.

Yes. So, we know that can't happen. But what about the stones being thrown and

39:00

the needles materializing out of nowhere embedded in the flesh of this poor young girl? How do you explain that?

marks being the exact same impression of her own. Like it's one thing to be like, "Oh, I think I got bit and a bite mark appear on you." It's another to have it look exactly like your teeth.

Like I don't know what mine look like.

No. No, I couldn't I couldn't make that happen.

Right.

Yeah.

Unless you bit yourself and then studied it and like which would be so weird.

Yeah.

Anyway, whatever. Colin Wilson, a British writer who wrote extensively about the paranormal, actually pushed back on the Freudian interpretation and argued that if this phenomena was unconscious self-punishment for oppressed guilt, why would the self-punishment continue for two full years now in a comfortable, secure, warm household that Eleanor said she genuinely loved living with the countess and she's well taken care of. So, like why would it continue to escalate and manifest

and just spiral.

Right.

Like that doesn't make sense, especially if it's unconscious. If it's conscious, okay, sure cuz she's looking for

40:00

Yeah.

to stay there.

Yeah.

But otherwise argument doesn't make sense. As much as we've said like, "Okay, Eleanor's obviously the subject to a bunch of like random adults coming in and constantly starting her." The countess did have Eleanor's back, did try to do everything she could to make her feel safe and welcome. And actually at one point a German critic published an accusation that Eleanor had been caught in her deception, that she was a fraud, which is just a total lie. And the countess sued him. She didn't succeed and like it didn't go through.

threatened. Yeah.

She threatened and I think that that was like one of two times that she was just like, "No, you don't get to talk [ __ ]

about my little Eleanor. Nope, I'm going to sue you."

Yeah, she did.

I appreciate when people with money and influence use their power for good.

Right. [laughter] It's like don't don't be an an [ __ ] Like write about something else if you're trying to get the attention.

Yeah.

How about do something that's like true and impressive instead of just trying to ride on the coattails? Okay.

[laughter]

Activity continued.

NOCD

A lot of us here at Two Girls One Ghost have dealt with some paranormal

41:00

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42:00

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menstruation saves the day

On February 14th, 1927, Eleanor had her first menstrual period. She was 13 years old. And immediately, the paranormal phenomena started to decline.

Oh. It's like the opposite of what you hear.

didn't just stop all of a sudden. It just started to slowly decline.

Like the second she got her period?

Yeah, it started to decline.

Okay.

But, it didn't just like immediately stop.

No.

Okay.

She got her period in February. By June of 1927, zero paranormal activity.

Damn.

Five months of having her period, and everything stops. Dracula left, whatever this entity that had been following this poor girl for some 2 years now. I think

45:00

it was like 2 years and 2 months I read on one article.

time.

Across two countries, from asylums to monasteries to countess' apartments and laboratories. Yeah, just stopped because Eleanor got her period and this thing never came back. The countess funded Eleanor's training to become a hairdresser and manicurist in Vienna.

Okay, I'm very happy about this.

Yeah.

Okay.

And in March of 1928, Eleanor returned to Romania. She built a life there, she got married, she did become a widow, and in the years later she ran a very successful hairdressing business. Harry Price tracked her down in 1945 and found that she was alive and well and the phenomena had never returned.

That's crazy.

Uh-huh. In the 1960s, she reunited in Vienna with the countess.

Oh, that's so special. Oh.

And then in 1998, at the age of 84 years old, Eleanor passed away in her home country of Romania.

long life.

And while Harry Price found that Eleanor was unafflicted by the paranormal, there

46:00

was a letter that she had written years later to the countess that suggested the activity had returned.

What?

And it might have been triggered by menopause.

No way.

And this is the story of Eleanor Zugun, a Romanian preteen tormented for 2 years by Dracula, the devil, because she found a coin and sweets, and her period and menopause greatly influenced the devil's presence.

That's all we get? We don't know what she said in the letter?

Nope, it was just like

Damn. Well, it's so interesting cuz we've heard so many stories where it's like people getting their period or like the the belief, the conjecture is that they're getting their menstrual cycle is what causes the stir up of the flare up of activity, but interesting that Eleanor is the opposite where it's like

Who is the trigger?

Yeah, interesting.

But I guess like I mean obviously like the whole menstrual cycle is a whole shift in like hormones and everything, but I think the real dramatic dramatic

47:00

shifts

Mhm.

are getting your period at first, like going through puberty, and then menopause.

Right, those are massive shifts.

I wonder if there was something manifesting there. Because I she did not have children, and there was no written record of pregnancies.

Interesting.

So, I don't I am curious if like if she had been pregnant, if

If that would have brought it up.

That completely messes up your body again, too.

This is wild.

Isn't it?

I am really happy to hear that Eleanor and the Countess were such good friends, and like the Countess really did take care of her. Because I think my biggest concern this whole story is just like this young girl, how is she being treated? And in the episode that I researched for next week is so much about like family turmoil, and it does make me wonder if there is some connection between dysfunction, like family dysfunction, and some of these hauntings.

Totally. It could be.

I don't know.

Well, I feel like so many people can Like if I think about my own childhood,

48:00

my parents reported me seeing ghosts before I even had the opportunity to experience dysfunction.

Like I think paranormal activity just exists anywhere all the time. But the really crazy poltergeist

And like demonic encounters.

Uh-huh.

They seem to fester in the dysfunction.

Right. It's Yeah, cuz it's like if they're feeding off of negative emotions and getting more power and strength from it, that's the perfect place to to set yourself up.

Ugh. Man.

Eleanor, do we have a photo of Eleanor?

Yes, here she is as an adult. If you're watching on YouTube,

could have used her hair styling techniques for my wig today.

Oh, she's beautiful.

She looks so much like I can't remember her name. There's a season of Love Is Blind, and she looks like one of the contestants on it

Mhm.

who was very like kind of like rich and wealthy family, and then she married kind of like a more farmy guy. They had a baby. Unfortunately, they separated, but when I saw her, I was like, "Oh my god, it's the girl from Love

[laughter]

Is Blind." And I'll also show you the Countess, which if you were watching on YouTube,

49:00

you've already seen her earlier. But apparently she was in her 20s, though this photo makes her look a lot older. [laughter]

Well, Eleanor also looks older than 12 or 13 in that.

Yeah. And then here are some of the marks since I didn't show you when we were going through it.

Oh, jeez. Oh, that looks like the stigmata.

Oh, interesting that you say that because that was a big part I didn't even write about it because I was just like there's already a lot. Um but that was a big part of it. That was like, okay, based on all the superstitions and like the area that she's from and how religion plays a part of it, there was a lot about the stigmata and like the needles being punctured through her hands.

And a lot of the markings appearing in the same way that

Mhm.

Jesus had nails driven into him and

Okay, well this is the other thing is not to get into like a whole religious conversation, but some of the like deeper like possession or haunting cases have a lot of similarities to like biblical stories.

Mhm.

And then I'm like, why are we calling it a demon in this case, but in the Bible

50:00

it was God?

Are they the same thing?

Are they not? They are brothers.

[laughter]

Who like who knows?

Yeah, we do not know.

We don't We have no answers. This is not a science podcast.

No. But I did I brought this up before that like there was a Tik Tok that I saw where someone was saying wasn't doing an impression of Jesus coming back down to return.

Mhm.

And just saw how many crosses there were of like the worst moment of his life and was like, oh, never mind. Like why are you guys

memorializing my murder?

Yeah, but then I saw another [laughter] one that was talking about just like how many people who experience psychosis

Mhm.

believe that they are Jesus returned. And someone the person who was making the video was like, statistically, I mean he said he was coming back. So like the chances what are the chances that like one or two or three of them were him coming back? And then we immediately go lock them up.

Yeah.

It's like, damn, it would be kind of a tough life for him to enter this world.

biblical stories where like people were hearing voices and bringing messages forward and back then people listened. I

51:00

mean granted there was a lot of doubt in some of these cases, too, but like yeah, I feel like our

society is uh made it hard for Jesus to come back. Well, maybe we should start looking Maybe we should actually take the Bible seriously word for word because I do believe it does say when men do harm to

Cut their veins off?

to pluck their eyes out.

And then well

we need to revisit this text.

Some of the text though is very bad for women.

That's true.

So, maybe not.

[laughter]

Um maybe we make our own rules and let women decide what to do with their bodies. Oh my god, wait. Sorry, this is another Tik Tok I saw where it was uh like someone goes to heaven and they meet like God and all the angel angels and everyone's a woman. And they're like, oh well, that's not what what Like this is very different from what you wrote in your book. They're like, we never wrote a book. Wait, who wrote a book? And it's just like them just constantly being like, no, we didn't do that. Who did that? And it like always goes back to

[sighs and gasps]

Uh your algorithm has changed.

52:00

There's still some darkness, but I'm trying to get I'm trying to get off of it.

to pivot?

Pivot, yeah. It's hard. We live in a tough tough world and possession cases just almost seem like the not even scary anymore.

Um I just watched a movie. It's a movie rec for people. It's called Good luck, have fun, don't die.

Is it like a game?

Um it's very much Okay, so the concept is there's a bunch of people in a diner and all of a sudden this guy who claims he's from the future comes and he's like, I need to form a group of x amount of people to like save the world. But if I don't do this tonight, the world will end. And and it it's very AI computer like how we're obsessed with our phones. If we don't change. Anyway, but it was really fun. It was weird and fun. I enjoyed it.

Is there a lot of death?

Yes and no.

It was fun.

But it's kind of like campy.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, it's not like the that one that was like the cabin at the end of the world or like whatever where like there truly is a group saying someone needs to die to save the world.

No, no, no.

a horror.

53:00

No, it's not like that. No, no.

Okay.

This is a campy movie, but it does talk about how we are obsessed with our phones and how we are glued to them and almost becoming possessed by the phone.

I do like that commentary.

Yeah.

I like you would like movies that have stuff like that. Like there's one that I'm not going to remember the name of it, but it's like they did a remake of it, but it's two guys who are wearing like all white and they go to borrow an egg or something from the neighbor and then they basically just like keep going back and hold the family hostage.

Oh, I hated this movie.

Yeah, it's really disturbing, but like it is acting as commentary about how we watch these horrifying things for enjoyment because there's like moments where they turn and break

Yeah.

the fourth wall or whatever and like I like did you enjoy that movie [laughter] or did you hate it? And then they use the remote to like replay and redo a scene.

that called? Um, movie

It is meant to get under your skin.

It it is it does.

Like you're watching this. Why are you watching this, you [ __ ] up weirdo? It's like, I don't know. I rented it for

54:00

$3.99. There's two of them, but I I watched the remake that came out in like, I don't know, 2009 or something like that.

Funny Games?

Mhm. Mhm.

Yeah. Okay, I watched the 1997 one.

You did. When did the remake one come out?

2007.

listener story

Huh. Okay, well, I have a listener story and it is about There's a Zoe in this story actually.

Oh, the contest, she's back.

And she's got possessed.

Oh, no.

This is from our listener Chris and it's called Did I Cause My Daughter to Be Possessed?

Ooh. Hey Ghosties, my name is Chris.

I've been binge listening and watching for about 4 months now and I was going to write a while ago, but I kept putting it off. And then the more I listened, the more I realized I really need to tell this story. So, my husband and I met and married. He has two boys and I have four kids, two boys, two girls. My daughter was the youngest of them all at that time and her name is Zoe. And I was raised very religious and did not know about the different demons and I nicknamed her Zozo.

Oh.

That's a cute nickname for Zoe.

55:00

so many people do that. We call Noah No No.

No No.

Well, we're copping we're copping all the other toddlers who call him No No in the in the neighborhood. We moved into a very old home that needed extensive work. And as context, the older lady who lived there previously fell down the stairs and died. She didn't die in the house, but she did die after the fall.

Oh, man.

While renovating the house, we uncovered a large sum of money in the floorboards. We tried to do the right thing by finding someone related to this woman to give that money to, but we found no one. So, we used this money to help pay for renovations, and that is when everything started.

Oh, no.

One night while we were in bed, also weird,

Starts with finding money.

Yeah.

So, one night while we're in bed, we heard a strange noise in our living room. Nervously, my husband and I went to go check it. We find my daughter on all fours digging into the carpet over and over saying, "Where's my money? [clears throat] Where's my money?"

Oh my god.

Remember they found money buried in the floorboards.

56:00

Oh, I have chills.

Yeah. We woke her and returned her to bed. Mind you, she is 4 years old at this time and knew nothing of us finding money in the floorboards.

I was going to ask. Does she even know?

Knew nothing. This happened at least four times.

Ooh. Ooh.

Other nights, we would find her on her top bunk asleep standing up trying to jump off. Once, my husband caught her and woke her up, and every time my daughter told us that an old lady was yelling at her to jump.

Oh, I don't like this, especially given that the woman herself quote unquote fell down the stairs.

A few times we would find her hanging onto the edge of the top bunk screaming as she had no idea how she got that way.

Yeah, no, the bunk beds are going.

Yeah, burn the bunk beds. There were also many nights when we would hear both my daughters, who shared a room, talking in their sleep, like full-on conversations in another language. They would cackle, and it was always super creepy, and my husband and I would just look at each other and be like, "Well, we're going to bed."

Oh my god.

[laughter] [gasps]

I always wondered if maybe it was because I gave her that nickname Zozo,

57:00

but I don't know.

I don't know. I don't I think it's the old lady.

And Zozo was the Ouija board demon.

Yeah.

And you're not using Ouija boards.

The specific "Where's my money find it is so old lady coded. Anyway, we moved from that house and I'm not sure whether it's because we moved or what, but she no longer has these occurrences. We have had other instances in our new house, but nothing like this. See you on the other side, Chris.

Mhm, yeah, I know that old lady became poltergeist-y.

Yes.

Cuz poltergeist doesn't mean evil.

Well, no, she possessed the little girl.

But But she's also trying to make your child harm herself by falling from an extreme height when she's super little.

Crazy. I want to know more about this old lady cuz I feel like she has a story and some unfinished business.

Yeah. And what did she want to do with the money that's squirreled away?

I don't know. I feel like that's like a common thing though where older people will like not trust the banks.

Right, in the cans or whatever, like their tin cans.

58:00

I'm very curious cuz we have some psychics and some intuitives and mediums who listen to our podcast. Like I'm curious if when we read the listener stories, if anyone picks up on things.

Oh, if they get hits. Oh, yeah. Do you Do you know if this lady has a message?

Or do you get hits about us?

I feel like people get a lot of hits on you. You get a lot of emails about like a reading for Sabrina or I know this about Sabrina or

No, they're mostly like I had a dream that Sabrina died and got mangled in a in her like fell off a cliff and I'm like, great, cool, thank you.

I think you like push out your energy.

No, I think people project their own energy onto me and I just am a I'm a mirror. People Because people will think I am something that they are.

do have accurate readings for you though.

Litha, our girl Litha.

[laughter]

Very much get accurate readings. But yeah, if you if you do get readings, you're more than welcome to share them with us.

Yeah, please.

Yeah, we want to know. We want to know what's What's our future? What can you see?

What are the lottery numbers?

[laughter]

They wouldn't tell us. They would go buy their own lottery ticket.

59:00

No, but for me, what are my [laughter] lottery numbers to win?

Oh, this was a sad scary episode, but I feel like it was lighthearted. Like I don't feel as scared this month.

No, I feel like we've covered a lot of the one or two

becoming desensitized?

Yeah, I was just going to say. Well, this one is like it's disturbing, but it happened so long ago.

Yeah, and it ended okay.

And ended okay, and I feel like in some of the more modern stories, we get more descriptions about like exactly what happened. Whereas this is kind of just like a fluffier like things are being thrown, things are moved, there's bite marks, there's needles, which like that's scary, but sometimes it can feel less scary when you're being walked through like what an hour actually looks like. And this one's kind of I don't know, there's just something kind of lovely about the idea of um

living with a countess.

Living with a countess and then you're meant going through menopause

[laughter]

and like having the devil return.

That sounds horrible. Like going I don't think going through menopause is enjoyable.

1:00:00

when I read that. I was like, "What? This is like the biggest twist." I never would have seen this coming.

Uh, Eleanor, let us know what happened to you during menopause.

Yeah, and Dracu poo poo. [laughter]

Also, I was thinking about it when researching this that I feel like often times when girls are blamed for getting their period for like poltergeist activity, we don't put enough blame on the moms as well because often times the moms are also going through menopause at the time. Like it usually kind of syncs up.

Intere- No, I mean

My mom was definitely going through menopause when I was in high school and I had like just gotten my period.

I feel like my mom just more recently went through menopause.

Really?

Yeah.

I mean, it's it takes a long time.

Yeah, that's true.

Feel like a freaking decade.

That's true.

Ugh, menopause.

Anyway, uh if you have any paranormal experiences, please email them to us at twogirlsoneghostpodcast@gmail.com. You can join us on Patreon for episodes one week early and ad-free, plus bonus content, plus every Tuesday we have

1:01:00

campfire stories where you can come share your ghost stories with us live. And it's like a fun little community um over on Patreon.

Yeah, thank you to Jimmy Ryan who edits and produces this podcast. We really appreciate you. And if you are listening in the month of October, you have one week left to take a picture of your Halloween costume, go over to our Instagram to check out the rules of our costume contest because it's happening and we have trophies. Yes, love you all. And be well. See you on the other side.

Very spooky.