CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT INSPIRED STRANGER THINGS | The Montauk Project Explained (Ep 357)

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He's like, "We are [ __ ] with space-time continuum. This is not okay." On top of the multitude of people being tortured.

Damn.

An alleged secret government experiment that involved psychics, mind control, time travel, kidnapping of hundreds of thousands of children. The Montalk Project. Yeah,

very spooky.

Hello.

Hello. What's up, everyone? This is Hey, what's up? Hello.

Hello. [laughter]

This is Ladies and Tangent.

Mary and Sierra.

I wonder if they'll ever know that we did this. Someone will tell them.

I'm so excited for Jerry's new podcast.

Wait, Jerry has a new podcast.

Yes. I texted her the other day and I was like, "Wait, what's new in your

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life? Why I haven't caught up with you in a while?" And she was like, "Oh, well, the new podcast blah blah blah." I was like, "What?" She has a new podcast. It's a podcast that um Wait, is it coming out tomorrow? This would be later for everyone else. Okay. The first episode is January 9th, so in a couple days from when we're recording now.

So, it already came out if you're listening to this episode.

Yes. It's with her friend Rachel. H who had a podcast already that existed called For Better or For Worse.

Mhm.

It was like with uh someone else. So there's like a back catalog from a few years ago, but they took a few years break.

Yeah.

And now Jerry is taking the place of the other host that is no longer involved. And so it's going to be Jerry and Rachel. And it's about like relationships and divorce and stuff like that.

Wow. I'm going to listen. How fun. Right. So Jerry's like the divorced one. Rachel's the remarried one. Even though Jerry's about to be remarried too

soon. I love that.

Yeah, I'm really excited for that.

So, go check that out. We are not ladies and tangents. No, we

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we're two girls from ghost.

Two girls, one ghost. [laughter] And we are your ghostesses. That is Karin and I am Sabrina. And we are a podcast about the paranormal and weird [ __ ] And this week we're going to put tin foil hats on. So,

we really should make some. I honestly last night was going to and I I also had such bad insomnia last night that but it was one of those like really frustrating ones where I just like kept wanting to fall asleep but every time I consciously was like I'm not falling asleep. I was like should I go make tin foil hats and I did not

We need a prop corner where we [laughter] can just like grab what we need. We do need a proper like the little like photo booth things.

Yeah. [laughter]

intro Montauk Project

Imagine we have tin foil hats on for this episode. Last week in episode 356, Kurt and I talked a lot about Stranger Things and

because I had a lot of anger.

Yeah.

In my body.

And we all know

better now. We're recording the same day. It's like 10 minutes later. [laughter]

10 minutes later. You got it off your

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chest.

But we all know Stranger Things. Even if you didn't watch it, it was impossible to ignore. This is like a show that has just become so part of pop culture and the zeitgeist in the last 10 years. Mhm.

1980s, small town Indiana, a secret government facility hiding in plain sight, children with strange abilities, experiments that go too far, and a gate accidentally opened up into a strange, twisted alternate universe, the upside down. But what if we told you that Stranger Things wasn't just born from the imagination of the Duffer brothers, but inspired by a real place. Inspired by a real secret government experiment that the government tried to cover up through mind control, memory wiping, and by eliminating those who knew too much.

Mhm. That's right. Because Stranger Things was inspired by a very real

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conspiracy theory called the Montalk Project.

Hey yo.

And today we are talking all about the Montalk Project, which is why we're putting on our tinfoil hats.

The Montalk Project is an alleged secret government experiment that involved psychics, mind control, time travel, kidnapping of hundreds of thousands of children. an experiment that effectively ripped open a hole in the space-time continuum. I was trying to explain it to Brian the other day because I was like, "Oh, Sabrina's gonna do an episode on the Monttok project." And he was like, "What's the Montalk project?" And I was like, "What's the Mod Talk Project?" Yeah.

And I attempted to explain it to him and then I was like, "Hold on, I actually can't because I don't actually know what is conspiracy and what's not." So, I was like, I don't know how much of this I'm telling you that's like is the tin foil hat and what is been released as fact.

Well, I'll tell you this. Literally, none of it has been released as fact.

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So, this is what the heck then it's all real. This is all conjecture and alleged, but the people who have shared these stories believe it to be true.

Okay? There has been no, it's not like how the government has released documents about MK Ultra and Stargate and Gateway Project like things like that. There's no released,

but I got I thought the Gateway Project was related to the Monta Project.

Oh, interesting.

Not I thought that they were like sisters. Also, I will say after last week when I was poo pooing a lot of season 5 of Stranger Things, one one thing I did really appreciate was, and this is a spoiler for anyone who hasn't seen the finale, was when Hopper mentioned buying property in Montalk. I was like, "Oh, such a good nod to what inspired this whole series."

Well, so the series was originally titled Montalk.

Oh, yeah. That's right.

Yeah. And then I think Stranger Things

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is way better. But yeah, it ends with Hopper's going montalk, which sounds like a really hard place to police. Um,

yeah. Well, then his house is going to be worth millions of dollars in the next few decades. He's going to be doing great.

That's true.

It's going to be a tough decade. And then he's going to be rich man.

And then he's going to be a rich man. Okay. Today we are diving into the origins of this conspiracy and we're going to let you decide. Is this real or is it an elaborate story that has evolved into mass delusion? Before

Preston Nichols

Stranger Things and before the discovery of the alleged Monta project, there is a man. His name is Preston Nichols. And there are so many different ways that people tell the Mont project conspiracy. I think the most crucial like from all my research I was like this is the only way you can tell it [laughter] because it is Preston Nichols is the reason we know about or believe this to be a a thing that happened and I think the way

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in which he came to find it is

even if it's not real it's the most magical crazy story.

I know now this is I'm like he's the only reason there's not other people that came forward

since he published his book. Yes. But okay,

Preston Nicholls, and when you Google his name in photos, the photos are not kind to him [laughter] in any way.

But so I found an older photo. Preston Nichols was a very science-minded, technical man. He worked with electronics, radio systems, and engineering concepts. He's the type of person who, it reminds me of my brother when he was little, like he had to take apart everything to see how it worked and then he would put it back together. Like this is Preston Nichols. He just wanted to know how everything worked.

And despite his infamy now, it's really hard to find any information on his life before like the beginnings of the story.

Mhm.

I'm not sure where he was born or when he was born. There are no verified records regarding his early career or

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life, which feels a little strange, but maybe that's on purpose. And strange is exactly the way I would describe this entire story. This is so I'm already like on the edge of my seat because I I thought I'd be going into this whole thing being like yeah all of this is real. But already from the start I'm like this is reminding me of some of the stories of like these people who come back and they're they live in another planet and they're a time traveler and it's this whole thing and then it's like it was a hoax at the end. Well, I will say when this story first started coming out so like in the 80s since then no one has changed their story. M. So Preston's story, at least the part of the story that is pertinent to the Montalk project in today's episode, begins in 1971. In 1971, Preston Nichols began working for a company called AIL, which is Airborne Instruments Laboratory, which is a very well-known defense contractor on Long Island. Preston was a specialist in electromagnetic phenomena. Basically, he deeply understood how electricity,

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magnetism, and electromagnetic waves behave and interact with materials and living systems. Nerd. [laughter]

Nerd.

No. And I say that in the sense of like it's physics and science that I just no matter what, my brain cannot conceptualize.

It [clears throat] feels so otherworldly. But he understood it, was an expert in it. And it's here at AIL that Preston received a grant to study mental telepathy and to determine whether it was real or not. And it's important to note that Preston himself didn't have much interest in this field. So it's right away it's like it's odd. Why would he be given a grant for this if he has no interest in it? I think the company probably got the grant and he was assigned

to do the study. So he

but it's not like he was just assigned to figure out like what is happening with these people and then concluded telepathy.

So he goes into this project pretty certain he's going to disprove that mental telepathy exists. Like he's like

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I don't think that's real. But he was in for a surprise. Not only did Preston come to determine that mental telepathy was in fact possible, he learned it did exist. and he uncovered something much deeper, much darker, something he himself was never supposed to recall. But we'll get back to that reveal in a bit.

What? Oh my god.

Okay, so this is probably a good place to state that in this episode about a conspiracy theory, some of the information in this episode has been confirmed, like details of origins of military bases and things like that,

but a lot of it is alleged. That doesn't mean it's not true. After all, what are conspiracies if not conjecture and hypotheses and theories that have yet to be proven,

right? My research does mostly come from the book that was written by Preston Nichols and Peter Moon called The Ma Project, Experiments in Time, the silver anniversary edition, cuz it's been like

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details have been added into it. But this is the story. So, it's 1971. Preston is assigned to this project studying mental telepathy. He ran a series of studies. The specifics here are vague, but he determined multiple things. One, telepathic communication is real. Two, it operates on principles strikingly similar to radio waves that he called a telepathic wave. Three, the telepathic wave propagates in a similar fashion to that of electromagnetic waves.

So, the same way like radio waves work,

like he's seeing that telepathy kind of like operates on a similar wave. It's a little bit like Plurabus again.

Yes. Yes. So, this discovery cemented a new path for Preston. He's now officially obsessed with metaphysics. And even after his work for this project was completed, again, the completion of this project and the project itself pretty vague. But after this is completed, he now seeks further discovery and starts running his own test in his own spare time. By 1974,

the initial discovery through psychics

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Preston is now running his own research. He had gathered a group of self-proclaimed psychics and he's continuing to do tests again.

So, this is outside of the grant. This is like underground research

in his home lab. Yeah.

Can you imagine having a home lab?

This is like we were working full-time jobs and our podcast was like our side hustle like hobby.

This is this is his garage.

This is his [laughter] podcast. Yeah.

He's doing tests on psychics. Again, specifics are very vague, but these tests led to a strange discovery. a accidental discovery. So according to Preston, as he's running these tests with psychics, he's doing this on a daily basis and he starts to realize every single day at the exact same time, every single psychic experiences a block. What? And it's for 20 minutes at a time. Every day, same time. I'm just making up what the time is to say. It's like 12:00 p.m. At 12:00 p.m. exactly, every single psychic all of a sudden has

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like a psychic block. They can no longer tap in. they can no longer access it for 20 minutes. And the second the 20 minutes is over, they cannot access it again. So he's like, "Huh?" Like, "What's happening?" And is there someone else in control who is manipulating something for 20 minutes every day?

Well, he's like, "So, because of the consistency of it, like there's something that is causing this blockage,

right?"

And being the guy that he is, Preston's like, "I got to find out what this blockage is." And based on his knowledge and the way that like he felt like it was operating on this the psychic wave similar to radio waves, he's like there's got to be some kind of signal interference, something that is blocking the waves. And this was just this wasn't like every psychic ever. This was just the people who he was studying locally

in Long Island.

So at least like there was a block in Long Island,

right? So he figures out that during that time there is a frequency being transmitted through radio waves and this frequency was specifically a 410 to 420

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megahertz cycle. So for 20 minutes every day this frequency was being put out into radio waves

and it's cutting off blocking psychic abilities. So I think my first instinct would be to be like okay well what is it about this frequency that is blocking psychics? But Preston's like, "I know this frequencyy's got to be local because it's impacting people here.

I'm going to go find it." He's like, "I'm going to go track down the location and source of this frequency."

And this is where I mean, there are going to be so many themes and like moments in this episode that you, if you are a Stranger Things fan, you're going to be like, "Oh my god, that reminds me of Stranger Things." This moment reminds me so much of Dustin. He jerryrigs a contraption to find it. And he places a modified TV antenna on the roof of his car, grabs a WHF receiver, and drives around Long Island in search of the signal.

Barry Henderson, right? Who was your favorite character?

I mean, I think 11. I felt I honestly

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that was my one qual. I feel like she disappeared a little bit from the story and she was so pertinent.

Um,

but then [ __ ] Derek just won me over this last season. He was so good. I feel like Dustin was my consistent

Mhm.

for day one.

You said consistent like

consistent.

Like your kin spirit [laughter] and consistent love.

Yeah. But um I feel like a lot of people feel this way. Steve Harrington had the biggest turnaround. Mhm.

Like I loved all of the characters and I would have probably cried with most of them if there were deaths, but I will say the only ones that would have like

destroyed me would have been those two.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of people felt the same. I loved Robin. I I mean I liked all the characters.

Robin, the first season that she came forward, she had such good oneliners

when they were working out the like aoy whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah. Hers were so good.

They were all good.

I actually loved

Nancy and Jonathan's breakup scene and I

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so many people complained about it cuz they're like really Yeah. Oh, on TikTok everyone was like, "I had no idea they broke up. Like I was so confused." And then [clears throat] I some of the comments were like, "It's because it was a healthy breakup. That's why so many people didn't understand it." Like it was like what a healthy relationship looks like and we're full of toxic relationships in our world. Well, and also I feel like it was nice because it was almost like they were

I feel like so much of like Henry and Vekna and and like that sort of lore was like finding the truth and telling the truth and like being authentic and like that sort of thing was hard for him because he's all about like manipulation. Yeah.

And it was them finally like revealing their truth and then they get to

be set free like literally from the danger.

Ends up with no one. I that's my favorite. I love when that I love when no one's dating. [laughter]

I love when there's no single single. You no love but Max and Lucas were the best.

I know. I did love

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watching them in the background just like constantly like all over each other just so happy to be together. I loved them.

Okay, so Preston Nicholls is very Dustin right now. He's like driving away around in like the WSQX van searching for the signal. It led him directly to Montalk point and the red and white radar antenna on the Air Force base. And this antenna is ginormous. It is like one description said the size of a football field. It's massive. Damn. How could you not see that through like the whole This isn't a super hilly sp Oh, I guess it's

I mean Mont's spacious. It's like This is at the very tip of Monta.

Yeah, I know. But it's not like mountainous like I feel like you'd be able in my mind I was thinking of like a giant tall antenna.

This is girthy.

Yeah. It's not like a It's not a Stranger Things antenna. So he arrives to this base and he's at the exterior. Right. This is an active military base

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and he sees the radar antenna, but it's at a distance behind the heavily secured active air for air force air force base.

Air Force air first. So he assumes either this is an accidental transmission or it's something related to the air base. So he goes up to security at the front gate and is like, "Hey, what's that radar being used for?" Which love that for him, but also like I would not trust any answer that's given to me,

right? And also like if we take a page from Stranger Things again, most of the people who are there probably don't know what something actually is

is, right?

Which I did feel bad for all of the soldier deaths in Stranger Things where I was like, these guys literally thought that they were like tending to a crack in the earth.

Yeah. But some of them also knew what they were doing.

Some of them, but a lot of them that got k the ones that knew mostly lived for a while and the ones that didn't got killed

until 11 like got her vengeance at the end there.

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Um, okay. So, he asks and whoever is at the security gate, I don't I don't know how the conversation went, if there was pressing or what, but like he tells Preston that it's being used for a project run by the FAA. The FAA is the Federal Aviation Administration, which this does not make any sense at all. I didn't know this, but because Preston knows things and researched, but this does not make sense. The FAA tracks civilian aircrafts. this radar, and I'll talk about the specifics of it a little bit more later. This was built during World War II. It's a radar defense system designed to detect enemy aircraft and missiles at vast distances. This is not scanning local airspace

and it's on the very edge of Montalk.

Yeah. So, this is not adding up. And also, in my mind, I'm like, like we just talked about, what does the security guard really know? Did he misspeak? Did he just like make pull something out of his ass? Is that what he was told?

Probably.

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Either way, while Preston knows this is sus, he's at a dead end. It's an active air base and he's not going to be able to get more information. So, for 10 years, this is 1974. For 10 years, this frequency that's being emitted and into the radio waves for 20 minutes every day is just a mystery. And Preston continues with his own metaphysical research, but the question just remains this constant itch in the back of his brain, right? He's like, "What is this?" And

see, in my mind, I'm like, they're trying to transmit a message into space every single day. It's crazier.

10 years. this it just it's a mystery to him because he can't get answers until 1984 and a friend of his gives him a call and he's like, "Hey Preston, guess what? That military base, it's actually no longer operating and it's abandoned. Now he can go investigate." Yeah. Naturally, Preston and his friend are like, "Let's go check out that abandoned air base and

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break in."

And it is here that they make multiple odd discoveries. The base doesn't look like it was shut down. It looks like it was truly abandoned in a panic. Like files and debris are strewn about. High-tech equipment is just left behind.

That's bizarre because it's probably worth a lot of money.

Well, so Preston's first instinct, but he's this technical guy. He loves he loves equipment,

right?

He sees all this valuable stuff and he's like, "Me want." And so he reaches out to I guess there's like this agency called the Surplus Disposal Agency in Michigan. And it's an agency that would be able to like track down the ownership of this equipment so that he could then speak to the right agency about purchasing said equipment.

So he wasn't just Yeah. He wasn't just going in and being like, "Oh, I'm going to take it cuz it's abandoned. I'm going to

potentially steal government property.

He doesn't want to do that." Yeah. He's going about it the right way. I mean, he works for a military.

He knows what to do.

Yeah. A contractor company. But oddly,

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this agency cannot track down ownership. The military does not take ownership of it. Like they're like, "This is not ours." General services admin also says, "We don't know anything about it." Which is weird because this isn't this was an Air Force base. Like the military, so we are led to believe operated here. How is there no record of it? Literally, no one would claim ownership of it, which in a way meant that the equipment had literally been abandoned, meaning Preston could just go take it.

Yeah. So Preston called up a friend of his named Brian. And Brian was also a psychic that had helped Preston in his years of metaphysical research. So together Preston and Brian

I love the Preston went in originally being like I'm going to discredit psychics and telepathy and now he's like I got to call my psychic friend to figure out what's [laughter]

Yeah. Preston and Brian together go to the abandoned base to retrieve as much equipment as possible. When they arrive,

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they decide to split up and tackle more ground. Preston heads in one direction and Brian in another.

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seeds of something more

It's around 7 p.m. The base is shrouded in darkness as Preston approaches a large and abandoned building. He pushes the door open and it swings with a loud creek that reverberates off the walls and floors. He clicks on his flashlight and marches down the long corridor in search of equipment for his own research. He scans one room that from its remains seems to have once housed a receptionist. He continues on looking room to room. As he's about halfway down the hallway, his flashlight suddenly sputters out, sending him into darkness.

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He clicks his on and off again. No luck. He tries again and again. Bang. Preston spins around searching for the source of the sound, but it's entirely too dark. His eyes not yet adjusted. And then he hears another sound. This time, more like footsteps. heavy and deliberate, moving toward him. He's desperately trying to turn the flashlight on while simultaneously calling out, "Brian!" But there's no response. Just the steady sound of footsteps getting closer and closer. His heart rate quickens. His breath shortens. The footsteps are mere steps away now. He tries once more to turn on his flashlight. And just as the shadow rounds the corner, click. His flashlight shines brightly, illuminating a man. The man covers his eyes, blinded by the light. Preston lowers it and the two men stand there for a moment staring. Preston doesn't recognize this man, but something in the way the man's expression changes makes Preston think the man recognizes him. Ooh, creepy. And sure enough, he does. This man

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introduces himself, which is a name that has been kept anonymous, but he tells Preston that he moved into this building after it became abandoned. that a year prior, so in 1983, there was a big experiment that went wrong. But Preston should remember because Preston was this man's boss. What? Wait, I'm flabbergasted.

Preston, obviously confused, is like, "Huh?

Was this Preston's equipment? Was he the one leading this project?"

What the [ __ ]

So, this is where the first big seed is planted. That's something I mean, already there's like mysterious things happening, but like it's even weirder now. Ooh, I Yeah, this is creepy.

So, this is what the man tells Preston. Apparently, this man, who is now living in this abandoned building, was a technician on the base. Preston was his boss on the project. The project went terribly wrong, and a massive beast appeared and frightened everyone away. Of course, Preston's like, "Okay, this is a man who's just like living in an abandoned building. Maybe he's just an

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unhoused man. He's probably a little bit delusional, like making this up. How could Preston have been the stranger's boss in a place that he had never before been inside and a massive beast just appearing? That feels like fiction.

Yeah. So Preston does like what he can to leave this man behind. He's like, I feel I don't want to be here anymore. So he goes Preston's also like it sounds like he's supposed to be this very like black and white logical guy and he's being challenged in the world by what's in the gray.

But like

yes,

he his default is like it's this or this. Well, it's interesting because the introduction to the book talks about hard facts and soft facts in living in the gray.

Oh, really?

And like they present this whole thing as soft facts and a story that lives in the gray.

H.

So, I like that you brought that up. But [laughter] so, he goes to find Brian. Remember, Brian is off another direction. Yeah.

Wandering around.

And when he finds Brian, before he can tell Brian like what just happened and

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what he just encountered, he realizes something is wrong with Brian. Brian like looks like just pale.

Oh.

And Brian's a psychic, right? So he's like, "Are you good?" And Brian's like, "Something is wrong with this place." He psychically was feeling very off. So Preston asks Brian if he can do a reading of the place. And keep in mind, Preston has not had the chance to tell Brian anything of what he just encountered with this like man living in the building,

right? But what Brian shares during his reading is eerily similar to the story that the man had just told him. Irregular weather patterns, mind control, a vicious beast. Preston and Brian agree that something very strange happened on this base. The evidence is piling up. The frequency emitted from the tower that interfered with the psychics, false information as to what the radar was being used for, the base being abandoned, equipment unclaimed, and now this a beast mind control. And somehow Preston was involved. They're like,

it's also like there's other people that live in Montalk. Like how is the

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community? How are the neighbors? How is no one else?

We'll get there.

How does [clears throat] this just exist in this little bubble? Or how does one person remember being involved in the project, but Preston doesn't? No, there's so many questions. There's so many questions. So Preston and Brian are like, "We need to get out of here as quick as possible." Like there's just weird vibes. They pack up as much equipment as possible and they leave the base.

They're trying to make sense of it all. They're like, "Something has definitely happened." But I think the thing that sticks with me and probably Preston too is like how could he be involved? He has no memory of being there in his life. So they agree that

right and don't other people have like aren't they able to account for his life like what he did last year and being with him and

Yep.

So how was he two places at once?

That's a good question. That's the question. So they leave being like that mystery man probably confused Preston for someone else. It was a dark hallway. Maybe he thought he saw the man that was his boss.

Yeah, that's just what they leave with because like they're trying to think rationally. But then a few weeks later,

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Preston is in his lab at the back of his house when all of a sudden he hears his front door like fly open and someone marches through his house all the way back to his lab and confronts Preston. This is a man Preston has never seen in his life. But this man who's just willy-nilly entering his home

knows Preston

and he confronts Preston saying that he was his boss at Montac base and he basically starts corroborating the same details that the other man at the abandoned building did. Unprompted unrelated different man claims Preston was his boss. Wait, this is so freaky to like wake basically like be woken up in waking life to you maybe having amnesia and all these random people like you have to discover not only the mystery of what's happening but like the mystery of of yourself

of you. Yeah. Like everything you believe is now not real.

How can you I would think that I was going crazy

experiencing schizophrenia

100%. Yeah,

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man. Like I literally wrote, "Can you imagine multiple people approaching you claiming to know you, stating you were their boss at an air base, but you have zero recollection? It's not like a doppelganger situation or like, oh, someone looks like you now. You're always alone by the name."

That's true. But so Preston is so puzzled by this, but naturally he is the type of person who's like, "Well, I need answers. I need to figure out what's going on." So he is like, "I'm diving deeper. I'm doing a further investigation." And what better way to

history of Montauk Air Base - Camp Hero

investigate than with what is publicly available. So the following information is factual and documented information about the history of Monta Air Base. Monta Air Base or Camp Hero dates back to World War II. It was built to defend the eastern seabboard and was equipped with coastal gun batteries, bunkers, and underground tunnels. But it was built, and I love this, to to resemble a small coastal town. So there were these like facads built. It almost is like a Hollywood set. There are facads built onto the exterior of all these military

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bases.

I like how you said Hollywood. My mind immediately went to North Korea [laughter]

or North Korea. Yeah. But um so it's like right after Pearl Harbor basically and the US during World War II and like fighting against Japan,

they're like, "We need to protect our country."

So they decide to build what is Camp Hero on Long Island. It was meant to be an unassuming base. so that like someone from the outside a enemy would look at it and be like, "Oh, that's just a little town. That's not a military base." But it was to protect New York City and Long Island from German naval or air attacks. And also there's like the Ubot if you keep if you remember those like which there's also a whole show called Dos Boot on Hulu. So good about Ubot. But that's the plan. That's what this is built for from the get-go though. It's built to be secretive. Hm. And Monttok was a perfect place for this because of its location. Monttok is the eastern most point of Long Island, New

33:00

York. Basically the edge of land before vast ocean. So if you look at it on a map, well, you can't really see, but yeah, it's the perfect location for a base,

right?

The point of the satellite signal or the whatever radio

radar

radar. I'm like, who were they trying to monitor? So that comes later. So that's not built at first. But so it's a perfect location because it's isolated. It's not inaccessible. It's surrounded by water on all three sides with only one main road in and out. So in terms of like military prime location and Montalk is a small fishing village, especially when this was built with a very small yearround population.

So not the multi-million dollar vacation homes that people have today.

And even still, like it's pretty isolated. like they're still a very small yearround population. So this is like a perfect place for a military base, but also

think about it, perfect place for secret government experiments because less people equals less questions.

34:00

So in the beginning it was a military base. That did make a lot of sense. And then after World War II, the government repurposed Camp Hero for the Cold War. It became a place to detect air and missile threats. In the 1950s, cold war era, the site became the Montalk Air Force Station, again to detect Soviet bombers or missiles and protect the US. As technology evolved, the government built the most important structure at Montalk Air Base around the 1960s, the radar tower.

It is specifically called an FPS35 radar, which was a part of the US's SAGE defense system, which stood for semi-automatic ground environment. So basically it was computerized and there were multiple of these radars like all throughout the US that could basically communicate with one another.

Oh.

Which is why they're so massive.

Yeah.

And they can detect like the airspace at vast distances.

Yeah.

Which I I don't not like. Like I want to

35:00

know if there's something sketchy flying towards us.

This is one of the largest radar systems ever built. And like stated earlier, it was designed for long range detection and had an extremely powerful electromagnetic output.

But it's like how does how is something that's probably so expensive and feels so important just abandoned?

Well, also this is the only radar of this kind that's still standing. Why why keep it if it's no longer something that the government used to

adds to the conspiracy.

Wait, so question about Preston for one second. Yeah. So, was he in Montalk or was he just somewhere else in Long Island?

Unclear. I don't know where

Long Island is big.

Yeah, he's close enough to Monttok that in a day he was driving in all that.

Yeah. Okay.

After the Cold War era, the base continued to operate until 1981 when it was shut down. Apparently, that's like when they the like military says they no longer operated this, but the building

36:00

itself and everything was left standing and abandoned in 1983. Preston's research in a initial investigation found zero evidence of government research or experimentation. On the surface, publicly, this was a military base that evolved with the years until suddenly it was closed. So, everything I just shared is public information. It's documented and none of it answers Preston's questions or the mystery that was unfolding before him. [clears throat]

So, he has to go one step further in his investigation. And that meant speaking to the locals. Preston sets up camp on

odd happenings as told by locals

the beach for I think a week by the abandoned base. And during his time, he speaks with as many locals as possible. And oh goodness, do they have stories to tell.

Oh my gosh.

Over the years, there were countless reports of strange happenings. the wildest being related to weather. It snowed in August, which I tried to find reports of that weather phenomena because like you would think if this

37:00

happened in the 70s or 80s like there would be an article but couldn't find anything.

Oh, interesting. Yeah, cuz there have been like freak things like that that have happened in the past where like it is recorded where there are photos of

people in July and like the month that was dark forever and

there's snow on the ground. There is a declassified experiment about these like weather things that were used around this time in a different experiment. So like adding to like why there is

like are humans okay,

right?

Why do we need to do these things?

There would be hurricanes and electrical storms that came out of nowhere. Meteorologists had predicted perfect weather and all of a sudden a storm would strike and somehow it would avoid specifically the air base. So there was like this bubble over it. [sighs] There were stories of animals behaving oddly like [clears throat] all of a sudden a horde of I'm just going to use deer as an example would like come crashing through town like literally breaking through windows of buildings and then like acting erratically

38:00

well because what are they hearing that we can't

Exactly. Locals told Preston of kids going missing and of rumors of experiments going on at the Monta Air Base. And again, these are all rumors and locals are, you know, they're like, "Ooh, what's happening over at that air base?" And and the rumors that spread through town from the 1970s through the 1980s were that they were studying mind control and time travel there. Again, this is all hearsay. Preston has yet to find any physical documentation or evidence to back up these claims. And then in 1984, it is wild how many people just walk into his life and seem to give him answers, but I think it's because they're all actually tied together because of the real reality that he's not supposed to remember. In 1984, a man

Duncan Cameron & the hit on Preston

named Duncan Cameron knocks at Preston Nichols front door. He has this like piece of equipment with him that's not working, and he's like, "I heard you're the man to go to for help with machinery." And Preston and Brian are

39:00

both very suspicious of this sudden arrival because Duncan Cameron doesn't just get his machine fixed and go. He's like, "Oh, what you doing here?" Like, "I want to stay and befriend you." And they're kind of like, "This is just like weird timing."

Yeah. and his

although like that's so something my dad would do

but I think it's the combination of like what Duncan's interested in and the timing of his showing up while Preston is like unraveling all of this and he has a good inkling because sure enough he is like I have a weird feeling and he's curious because again he feels like this feels convenient. So according to his book Preston and Brian were dubious and suspicious of Duncan. So they take Duncan to Camp Hero to walk the abandoned buildings of Monttoa Air Base and almost immediately Duncan starts like talking about the buildings. He knows all the buildings. He knows what they were used for. He has knowledge that

he shouldn't have,

right?

And when they enter the transmitter

40:00

building, Duncan goes into a translike state that Preston has to like repeatedly shake him out of. So they take Duncan back to his lab and it is there that they use techniques that he learned over the years to help unblock Duncan's memories. And it is there that they learn so many things. Namely that Duncan had been programmed to befriend Preston, discover everything he knew, then kill him and destroy the lab and all of his findings. So someone is trying to prevent him from doing this investigation. This is so tough because I I just keep thinking about the movie A Beautiful Mind, which is also a very trippy movie. Yes. So now Duncan becomes a major part of this unraveling of what will later and now known become known as the Montalk Project, but he's also a major part of the Philadelphia experiment, which we might be hearing on soon. So Duncan and his brother had

41:00

served aboard the USS Eldridge and were members of the crew. Yes, more on that soon. As Duncan's mission came forward, Preston was able to deprogram him and Duncan's like I guess how

I think like hypnosis you

Yeah. Right. But come back.

Well, so I think going back to the base did like snap something in Duncan.

Interesting.

He probably shouldn't have gone back. So, everyone that steps on the base remembers

something.

But Preston,

but he even had like a he was drawn to it. He kept being drawn to it.

Yeah.

I think Duncan, similar to Preston, is like, "Wait, there's a part of me that I don't remember. Like, someone somewhere told me to befriend you and kill you, and I didn't even know I was operating on those commands." Like, he's scared of his own thoughts now, too. This also reminds me a little bit of the movie Arrival where it's like she played a part and set up

things without knowing she did and then

42:00

was told later that she did and it's like well how is this

how is that possible?

How is that possible? How am I here? I just only found this out like Yeah.

What is reality?

So trippy.

It's so trippy. And there are a lot more details. I mean the book is like 300 pages so you can read more. I'm I'm trying to like

make it one podcast episode.

Yeah. It's still 26 pages my research, but yeah, not 300. And there's also like countless of Reddit threads and other documents and documentaries and whatnot. So, there's a lot of information if you want more. But somehow Duncan and Preston with a series of things deprogram him. And Duncan feels grateful for Preston's help and he's like, I want to help you solve this because he too is missing memories.

Yeah. So, it is with Duncan's assistance that Preston is finally able to uncover what happened at the Montalk Air Base and how he was possibly involved. So, now at this point in the story, it's 1984 and Preston knows a couple of things are true. Something strange went

43:00

on at the Montalk Air Base. something was being kept secret. And in his research and with the assistance of a senator, he was informed that the Montalk Air Base had actually been decommissioned in 1969 and then listed as a property held by General Services Administration since 1970. So then why was security pretending it was still an active military base? Lots of lies, lots of secrets. Like if they cared about what was in the building, they would just remove the item. [snorts] So it's not about

No, something is actually happening somehow. Also, Preston knows that he himself was involved, but he had no memory of it. Meaning that somehow mind control or mind tampering was taking place or and he starts to be like, am I living in different timelines? Like, are there two versions of me that exist?

Either way, he's confused as hell and he wants answers.

He's masterminded one and the victim in the other. through a series of techniques and combination of hypnosis, investigation, and studying of technology and electromagnetism.

44:00

A lot of this is unclear because I'm like, did he fully recover the memories or is like some of this like hypothesis? I don't know.

Yeah.

Is he VCNA in this story?

No, he's not.

Oh, and he's not Papa either.

You are like Papa. Again, I'm truncating the timeline here, but it took him from 1984 to 1989 to truly put the pieces together. And keep in mind, his interest in this matter began in 1971 when he was given that grant to study metaphysics.

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45:00

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The MonTauk Project revealed

But here's a summary of what he garnered over the years. From 1971 to 1983, there was a secretive government experiment operating at the Montalk Air Base, which

46:00

is now known as the Monta Project, but was originally known as Phoenix 2 by officials involved. Two. Interesting. Meaning it's not the first time,

right? at its core and again like all of this is the conspiracy theory that is the Montalk project. There is no documentation that proves its existence but at its core

wait sorry I need to do one thing really fast.

What?

This is reminding me of a Tik Tok and I just cannot find it cuz of course like I watched the whole Tik Tok and then I didn't like it or save it.

But there was this woman who her mom worked at the Pentagon.

Mhm. And she said that as a child she went her mom like worked on one of like the their two basement levels and her mom worked on like one of those floors and she brought her to work sometimes to like just grab something and she said her mom had to grab something one time and she wasn't supposed to be down on that floor like clearance wise but she was just a kid so her mom was like we're going to be in and out really quick. I

47:00

got to grab something. We'll leave. She got caught, which like wasn't that big of a deal, but she was like, "The whole point of this story is I've never [snorts] gotten this strange door that felt weird to me in this room in the basement of the Pentagon that she said had a symbol on it." And I can't remember what the symbol was, but when you said Phoenix, I was like, "Was it the Phoenix?" Because whatever it was, she found out was like maybe some sort of symbol that meant like secretive government or military experiment. But she was like, "It's weird that like just a door would stand out to me as a kid and I would feel weird about it and not stop being able to think about it my entire life." And now she's probably she's like in her 30s and she's like, "I still think about that door from when I was like eight."

So I don't remember who it was. I can't reference the TikTok,

but I mean for sure what the image was

are weird things happening and the government is we know for a fact there are operations and things happening that we do not know,

right? But in my mind I was like, "Oh my god, was that Phoenix one?" [laughter]

Could have been. Um, okay. So at its core, the Montalk project was believed

48:00

to be designed to explore, weaponize, and control the human mind. Mind control was the goal, but it was not one single experiment being conducted. There were many. And while yes, this is a conspiracy. We know for a fact the government at this time and prior to this absolutely was there are declassified documents. There's MK Ultra, there's Stargate, there's Gateway Projects. All of these things have come out

to light

and that's what they were they were doing remote viewing. They were doing they were seeing about mind control like they were doing that was part of one of the experiments.

I know I remember you saying that.

My grandma still shushes him when he tries to talk about it.

I [laughter] don't know if it's because she's not supposed to or if she's scared or just like hates thinking about that time of life. But you know you give him enough wine and stick him in a pool on a float on a sunny [clears throat] day and he'll start telling you stories.

Yeah. Get your grandpa drunk. Who knows what he knows. Okay. But Mont project there were many different experiments being conducted. There were sub projects

49:00

that included memory manipulation, object impermanence and object creation, torture, LSD, psychic amplification, remote viewing, telepathy, time manipulation, and portal creation. The LSD is what my grandpa was part of. Yeah. And these are just a few of the the experiments or things that [snorts] they were testing that have been hypothesized or presented by alleged contributors or subjects of the experiments who have since come forward. We will get into some specifics in just a moment, but keep in mind while Preston Nichols was meant to believe he was working for the defense contractor AIL in 1971, 1971 is also the same year that project Mont is believed to have begun. So the timelines line up of 1971 he severance.

It's so severance. He believes he is testing telepathy.

Yes.

Mental telepathy.

So there's like some it's like they programmed his memories with hints of

50:00

truth.

Yes.

And and also keep in mind like there's so many moments that he's interacting with the Montalk base between 1971 and 1983. Mhm.

the years of its operation. Like in his mind, remember I said for 10 years it was sitting in the back of his mind until 1984 when it's abandoned.

Yeah.

So for 10 years it's in the back of his mind because he's he actually was working at the air base.

That's great.

Doing this experiment. [sighs and gasps]

My god.

All of his memories had been rewritten from 1971 through August of 1983 because of the incident that shut down the Montalk project. or at least that location. So, what are the real memories? Again, this is what Preston and Duncan and Brian like all the people involved now have like unraveled. Then these are what they believe are the real memories.

Okay. Already my mind is like, did someone wipe his memory but just no one else or did he wipe his own?

51:00

Memory was wiped too, remember?

Yeah. But but some of the other guys weren't.

Brian, the psychic who has been his friend

Yeah. was a subject in the Montalk project. He doesn't remember that. He just thinks him and Preston are friends and they've been working together on a on Preston's own study.

But the fact that Preston was like it seems like he was the one that was conducting a lot of this research and super important makes me wonder if

but he's not actually. That's the story they made him believe.

Oh god. [sighs] Yeah. So 1971 the Montalk project is believed to have started and Preston Nichols was brought on as a technical specialist and systems operator. He worked with electromagnetic technology. So he's not in charge. He's conducting orders from others who are in charge and above him. He monitored how the technology interacted with the human mind, observed the effects of the electromagnetic exposure, and assisted in experiments where mental states were

52:00

in fact influenced and measured. So he was pressing buttons,

which is not too different from what he actually remembers doing in 1971. Just the memory he was led to believe was that he received a grant to study mental telepathy and that he was running that study. But in reality, he's working on this project, pressing buttons, following other people's orders. The more that Preston worked on the projects, the darker the project became and the more nefarious side of the project revealed itself. He began as an unknowing participant but during his time there I mean this is a 12 and a half year period he became an aware insider specifically during the Montalk chair experiment. So the Montalk chair

the Montauk Chair

is the most prominent or one of the most prominent experiments talked about about the Montalk project and prominent studies that was conducted. It is also where Preston Nichols first met Duncan Cameron. So, prior to Duncan Cameron showing up at Preston Nichols door in

53:00

1984 and knocking on his door be like, "Hey, my equipment's broken. I'm actually programmed to kill you, they had met each other in the days of the study."

Duncan Cameron was a psychic along with many other unwilling test subjects involved. And I

So, like everyone's a psychic. Is Preston a psychic too and just doesn't know it? No, but I think the subjects at first I think they were testing on anyone, but then they realized they could manipulate people who were open psychically more.

Well, makes sense. They're already partway there. So, test subjects, often Duncan Cameron himself, were placed in this chair that was inside a shielded room. And I have a picture of 11 with her like little like brain things on because it feels similar. But the chair was described as metal wired into surrounding equipment and connected to a computer or technological system. A lot of the like physics here is very confusing to me, but it makes sense to the people operating it. Right? So once in the chair, this person would be exposed to a strong enough field of radio waves that could influence the

54:00

brain waves but not damage it or that's what they evolved to. Like at first I think they were just like pumping strong radio waves to see what would happen,

right?

But the purpose here was to try to amplify human thought. The subject would be asked to concentrate intensely on an image, an idea, or an emotion. This thought would then be transmitted to the computers and become data. And the combination and strength of this mental/data signal could in turn create a physical manifestation.

A physical manifestation.

Yes. So, what the hell?

Because I was just thinking about I had interviewed I didn't include it in blank. I think I like maybe said like one line about it, but I interviewed this one doctor who said like they are literally working on being able to like use a like chip in your brain or like some sort of sensor for people who

can't speak and stuff.

Can't speak or are even like potentially appear unconscious. Yeah. Covert consciousness

to fullon communicate sentences, words.

55:00

And it's like how do you do that?

Apparently that already exists.

But this is going like a step further,

right? And I think like a lot of this evolved like they were truly just throwing pasta noodles at the wall to see what stuck and when something would stick then they would like tinker with it and evolve it.

So throughout the years this is what it evolved to. Say Duncan was to think of an apple. The power of his thought especially because he was psychic and he was like in this higher state. Maybe the power of his thought combined with the technology could produce a physical apple. I think in like a portal type of thing. there would be like a rift in time and space.

Was it a physical apple or was it the illusion of an apple?

There's some question.

Can you touch the apple?

I don't know. And I like maybe there's more information about it. I I don't know. But

And are you actually seeing the apple or is this everyone's brain sinking up and and seeing the same thing

or believing in the same thing being shown?

I don't have an answer, but eventually

56:00

it does become it interacts with our world. So Duncan was especially good at producing the physical manifestations, but the tech could not work without a human. Over time, apparently this chair and its techniques were used for bending time and even time travel. And it was around this time that Preston started to see the truth because he started to see that the people who were being placed in the chair were not willing participants. [sighs and gasps]

And they were often like bruised, battered, scared,

terrified. And then he starts to unravel a much more horrific truth. And this is content

the Montauk Boys - tortured below ground

warning for like violence against children. Again, it's not verified or documented, but when I give you the stats, I won't be so impressed.

Yeah. And knowing some of the stuff that has come out that is true, [sighs] we can assume that there's some truth to some things. So the subjects in the Montalk project were often children, often kidnapped and tortured in horrific manners. I hate that. So there is this,

57:00

it's called the Montalk boys, and I think it's like a name that they've given themselves. They were the victims of the Montalk project. And I think they it was all boys.

It was mostly boys. Like there's very few reports of women. Like I think there was like I in all of my research there was like one little sentence of girls and women who were taken to be a part of this were like manipulated to be like spies. H

so I don't know why it was men specifically. But some of these supposed torture tactics have come forth in the year since Preston's discovery and reports. And it is said that between January of 1971 and August of 1983, a 12 1/2 year period, some 300,000 children were kidnapped, tested, and tortured. And only 1% of these children survived.

H

I do get more into the stats in that minute, but I looked it up cuz I was like, that's a lot of kids.

I know that makes me feel like I don't believe it now.

But guess how many kids were reported missing every year during this time? 1

58:00

million between 1971 and 1983 every year. So 1971 a million kids are reported missing around

in in America.

In America just in the US a some of these are runaways some of them like would be found later but a million abducted by a parent

children

reports.

Oh my god this is horrifying. Oh this is going to like trigger so much parent anxiety in me. I know, but like a lot of people when they hear that number, they do think like it's not true. But when you look at how many missing children,

you look at the actual real stats, you're like, "Oh my."

Like 300,000 is actually nothing in compared to the numbers of missing children reports

every year. Yeah.

So they are what are today known as the Montalk boys. And a lot of information that follows is from a documentary called The Malk Chronicles that came out in 2014. According to various sources and whistleblowers who have since come forward claiming knowledge of the Montalk project, those in charge knew that they needed subjects for their studies. So they began picking up boys

59:00

and men off the streets in Long Island and New York, mostly runaways, addicts, or people on the fringes of society because they were less likely to be looked for. Mhm.

They would take these boys to a secret facility that operated beneath the Montalk Air Base, and they would run various experiments on them, all in an attempt to achieve and study mind control. They would be thrown into cement rooms and basically tortured. They were starved, drowned, brought to near death because the goal was to shatter the mind and split it from the soul. So like bringing these people to the verge of death would make them more vulnerable and more easily manipulated. Like the OA Yes. They basically wanted to break the psyche so they could reprogram the brain to their desires. Apparently, over time, the experiments evolved and so too did their understanding of what kind of subject worked best, which led them to like wanting kids with like psychic abilities or certain DNA and genetics, which meant that they had a more calculated desire and would kidnap specific children and take them to the base. Yeah. And I

1:00:00

looked it up. So between 1971 and 1983, unfortunately an exact number doesn't exist because comprehensive tracking systems didn't exist until the early 1980s. And I think honestly there's like the like main missing children's system was created in 1984, which is like the year after this project is said to have ended.

Just think the timing is interesting. But yeah, 1 million missing children annually in the United States. So with these new subjects came new studies and techniques. There was use of LSD, torture, the chair. Some claimed a sort of possession where it felt like another person was taking control of their body. There was one test that had one requirement. Bring the subject to ultimate fear and then kill them to extract what was reported as the adrenochrome from the penal gland. Apparently, it created a psychedelic drug that could be used for mind control. But this is a conspiracy within a conspiracy because those don't really line up as scientific terms. Yes, there's an adrenocchrome, but that forms

1:01:00

naturally after like exposure to air and it can be mass- prodduced synthetically.

That's what I was just thinking is like you can't you have to kill someone to extract it. Like it doesn't just exist

either you can't create it synthetically or like a version of it doesn't exist in like some plant somewhere,

right? And then the penal gland in reality is responsible for producing melatonin which regulates the sleep wake cycle. But it is also in some traditions known as the third eye because it's like even though it's in our brain, it's

sensitive to light the way our eyes are.

So like maybe they were actually doing something else with that. I don't know. I feel like we could have saved a lot of time by introducing them to Iawaska. [laughter]

I mean, they were doing LSD, too. But either way, this part it's like this is one of the like least considered true parts of the conspiracy.

And apparently it's like a madeup thing in the movie Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, too. So like people are like sus. What's real? But of the upwards of 300,000 unwilling and unconenting test subject, it is said that only 1% of the

1:02:00

Montalk boys survived. The rest were either killed or died during these studies/tor tortures. Bodies were said to have be cremated, decomposed with lime, or dumped in the ocean. And then there was like there's a claim that if we were to actually dig up beneath the Monttok air base, they would find the equivalent of like Paris catacombs. Damn. Researchers claimed that they were trying to control mankind and keep it safe for humanity. And apparently over the years they ran mood altering tests on people in nearby areas. They also

Sorry, I need to interrupt.

No one's tried to do LAR in the area to see like I feel like that would be like proof of if there actually is tunnels if there are tunnels or like people.

There are tunnels. I mean this was an air base with tunnels. But like I'm thinking about like when we did all the research on the conjuring and they did the LAR and they could see like literally caskets and like stuff like that.

I wonder if it's well so this land is now a state park. Like you have to pay admission. It's monitored heavily. Like

1:03:00

I don't like I don't think you could just like

bring your machine,

bring your bring your LAR scanner, which is also a very expensive equipment. But yeah, so like over the years all this is like unraveling while Preston is uncovering these memories in 1984. Apparently during the real experience, he's realizing there's dark things happening at this project. By 1983, he had really learned the truth of ongoings. And there are other people he mentions that were involved, like a man named Al Beik. He'll come in more with other stories, but apparently Preston

shutting the Montauk Project down

tried to shut the program down, but he was silenced and even threatened and held at gunpoint. Like, he's not in charge. He's following orders.

Who is in charge?

The government.

But who? So it got to a point where he and a group of other members ultimately decided to take matters in their own hands and come up with like a contingency plan like should things go ary they were going to shut it down from within. So Preston Duncan Alic and some

1:04:00

other members met at like a motel and came up with a plan. And on August 5th, 1983, the team was given a directive to run their transmitter non-stop. And something wild happened on August 12th. Again, like there's it's hard to like imagine this, so I'm just picturing Stranger Things.

But so they're in this lab. Their transmitter is running. I imagine there's like the little like black holy like entrance to the upside down that exists in in season 5 of Stranger Things. And all of a sudden, something appears in this portal. A ship. The USS Eldridge from the Philadelphia experiment from 40 years prior. So something from 1943 shows up in the image of this portal and they can literally flip somewhere.

Duncan Cameron cuz he was a member of the crew and his brother in this portal. Again, I can only visualize it like stolen from the ship in their time period. So according to Nicholls, this

1:05:00

wasn't the ship physically entering Montalk, but an image or manifestation appearing through what he described as a temporal rift. And as this is happening, he's like, "We are [ __ ] with space-time continuum. This is not okay." On top of the multitude of people being tortured and and like your own military, too, like your own,

right? An entire ship ship.

And Duncan from 1943, they can like see him on the ship. But Duncan in 1983 is sitting in the chair connected to the machinery and Duncan is a part of the contingency plan. Actually, he is the crux of the contingency plan. And they all are like, "It's time. Do this plan." Basically, the belief was that if thought powered the system, couldn't thought also shut it down? So, they were planning to have Duncan use his thought to shut the whole thing down. But in this moment when Duncan is realizing his self from the past is in this [ __ ] rift,

1:06:00

fear comes up. So it combines like this fear with this thought of shutting it down literally manifests a terrifying monster. And it was in this moment on August 12th, 1983 that Duncan Cameron produced a monster from thought that turned into a physical manifestation. This monster was covered in thick matted hair. Legend says it was somewhere between nine and 30 feet tall, though Preston when he saw it believes it was like 9 to 10 feet tall. It was covered in hair. It was hungry and it was nasty. And this thing starts wreaking havoc in the buildings. It is destroying things. It is breaking things. It is like like a dem demodog or demogorgan like literally destroying the lab.

Preston allegedly went up to his higher up and was like, "We need to shut it down. We need to shut it down." and his higher up like took out a gun and was like, "You fix this without ruining our equipment." So Preston and again like there's more details on like the science of this, but basically they try to like

1:07:00

get things under control. They do everything they can to turn off the power. And in the past when they would like shut things down because again the chair works with the machinery

to create the physical manifestation. And in the past when they would shut the equipment down the physical manifestation would disappear. But the energy that Duncan Cameron was putting out and creating this monster, when they turned the machine off, this monster continued to wreak havoc. He didn't need his sensory deprivation tank.

No. Exactly. And it wasn't until Preston went and cut the actual equipment apart that the transmitter turned off and the beast faded back into the ether. But do you want to see what this MTO monster looked like and is like my absolute favorite part of this story? And it's a conspiracy within a conspiracy. What does this remind you of?

Bigfoot. Oh my god. You know what? When you were saying that he was hairy, [laughter] immediately I was like, well, it was Bigfoot because he's an interdimensional being and that wasn't just a physical manifestation. It was just opening up

1:08:00

like literally was a time.

Yeah.

To one of the creatures.

Yeah.

Worlds. That is Bigfoot. That is literally

literally Bigfoot. People have like added a conspiracy that like Bigfoot came to Earth through the Monta project.

No, he was seen far before.

I know. But then there's

as a Bigfoot enthusiast and researcher myself, I can. [laughter] But also, what is time? Because they also went back in the 1940s and

Exactly.

But

that's wild.

Yeah. Also, I'm conf So, they had the big radio wave tower

and when that is on, it affects the psychic ability and blocks it out. Why couldn't they just turn that on? That's what's confusing. So, I think like what they were doing with that frequency was separate. Like that like 410 to 420 hertz was like doing something to help with like mind control of the subjects on the base.

And there there is more about it in the book, but like I think that frequency makes people more susceptible or

1:09:00

something.

Huh.

I don't know. [clears throat]

So Bigfoot was in the lab. They destroy take apart the equipment to make Bigfoot

Yes. return back to the ether,

his his other dimension.

Project Montauk shut down

Yes, the impact of August 12th, 1983 did achieve what Preston and his comrades had intended. Not in the way that they thought it would happen, but what followed was basically silence. Operations at the Montalk Air Base ceased immediately. It was not like a systematic shutdown. It was abrupt. Buildings were sealed and abandoned. And it must have been at this time that Preston's memories were deliberately altered. In less than one year's time, Preston would show up to the abandoned air base and get drawn back into the truth. What happened to the subjects that were being studied? That's a question that we do not know the answer to. Some believe that they were released back into civilization as a sort of Manurion candidate, like secret assassins that could be activated at any time. Others believe the Montalk project never truly ended but was simply moved elsewhere, which is why the documents

1:10:00

have not been released to the public and it has not been declassified because it is still ongoing and operating elsewhere. But between in 1986 and 1989, Preston was uncovering the truth and his true memories and he knew he couldn't stay silent. So in July of 1986, Preston

Preston comes forward & publication of the book

spoke at the United States Psychotronics Association in Chicago. And apparently, so like remember 1984, Duncan Cameron shows up programmed to kill Preston. And as they're unraveling all these things, like they all start to believe that they are for sure going to be killed. That if Duncan didn't do his operation, who knows how many others were programmed to find them and kill them,

right? So they're like, "We just need to say this and tell someone so that in case like we do end up dead or missing, people are like, "Oh, remember that thing he said?"

Yeah.

Yeah.

So he talks about it in 1986. And then I guess he had spoken to a senator who was like trying to do his own investigation, but like the investigation kept like

1:11:00

getting shut down or like not going anywhere. So the senator is basically like if you want to go public with the story, go for it. So in 1992, Preston decides to publish a book with everything he believed to be true. Even though there is no physical documentation to prove it. So the book was the Montalk Project, the same book I read for the research of this episode. It was co-authored by Peter Moon who Peter Moon really helped frame this story in like a one a very digestible way and two like made it like I think if Preston had done it himself it probably would have been very convoluted but Peter Moon was able to like cohesively tell the story and shine a light on how this is a much larger part of secret history and government studies. But when it got released, it kind of like if the government is trying to like keep it quiet, they didn't really have to do much because everyone read this book and they're like, "Pre's a nut." Like there's no evidence to back it up.

1:12:00

It could totally read as

he's just deluded individual. Yes.

So they didn't have to do much to to like make the public believe it was a fake story. It all relied on recovered memories, which is such a bummer to be, you know what, just because he saw Bigfoot, I believe. [laughter] Like, duh. I mean, I do think there's a lot of elements here that do exist and are real and did happen. But because there's so many layers of like fake memories and recovered memories, I do believe that some of it maybe is not true.

Yeah. How do they know what's

How could you possibly Doesn't it all kind of seem like an illusion,

right? So that being said, after it's public and has anyone seen or spoken to the other people,

a couple.

Okay.

So they exist. They're real.

They Well, if you want to believe they exist, they exist. Again, there's no they have no evidence of their experiences either. And there's one person I'll talk about in a second. Um, but so it's public, it's public, this

1:13:00

story. And while most people are like, it's fictional. There are many people who come forward with their own memories. People who worked near the base who had strange experiences, they start to come forward. Others who have fragmented memories start to come forward. And it led to dozens of other stories giving way to the conspiracy theory that is now today the Montalk Project. One of the most notable witnesses who came forward after the release of the book is a man named Stuart Swerblow. And Stuart's story is

abduction of Stewart Swerdlow

wild, but it like both gives credibility and kind of discredits the theory in ways. M

but I also understand it because like he's deeply traumatized. So

yeah,

when Stuart Swerllo was young, he started to see shadows on the walls of his room. It always started the same shadows. And then the metal blinds on his windows would start to vibrate. And then he would get this sinking feeling that he was not alone in his room. He couldn't see what was there, but he knew something was there. He would suddenly become paralyzed, unable to move or

1:14:00

scream, but he would feel his body being like lifted off of his bed and moved and transported out his window. [snorts] It's like an alien abduction. So, his experiences are very much alien abduction-like. And at first, he tried to forget the experiences, but it happened so often that even as a young child, he was terrified of everything. He in the documentary Montalk Chronicles, he says that like he didn't know happiness as a child. Oh,

like he has no memory of happiness. He was constantly scared.

That is so sad.

And at some point in his childhood, his family moved to Montalk. I think it's 1970. And that summer, his dad's like, "Let's go drive out to the Montalk Lighthouse," which is on like the land that Monttok Air Base is. So, as they're driving there, Stuart gets this overwhelming feeling that he couldn't quite describe, like he had been there before. And as they drive past the entrance to the Montalk Air Base and Stuart's dad goes, "Oh, there's the Montalk Air Base, Stuart just knows he's been there before, but he knows that

1:15:00

doesn't make sense." So he doesn't tell anyone. He's a child.

His subconscious.

Yes.

Psychically he's been there.

So his consciousness was abducted.

Yes. And so he kept quiet. But for years and years of his life, he endured countless abductions. They always began the same. shadows, blinds, paralysis, levitating, and then next thing he knew, he would be placed on a table, strapped down, surrounded by what he today thinks are aliens, although he believes that they were constructs made by humans, like that they weren't actually real. Like, it was like what they wanted him to see.

Oh, interesting. I mean, there's so much mind manipulation here.

I know. It's like I I can't But like, how do they control what is seen when the people in the chair are the ones

or was it rewritten making things? or was his memory rewritten?

Again, it all comes back to who's in charge here, who who's calling the shots about who gets mind wiped and who doesn't?

I don't know. So, he would be placed on this table strapped down and he felt

1:16:00

like he was naked and he would feel pressure and like needles on his bodies and he would describe feeling and this reminds me of a C-section like it felt like things were inside his body touching his organs.

I hate that. And he knew that whatever they were doing, he was not consenting to it. and that others were being tested on as well. He also said that every experiment was different. Sometimes he would be put back in his room and hours would have passed. Other times he would be put back and minutes had passed. And when he got older, he realized he would be gone for weeks at a time, but when he would be back, it would be like as if no time passed. And so he knew that whatever was happening, someone was bending time

and manipulating time cuz he knew whatever study and experiment he did was like a week long period if not more. But when he would go back it would be like nothing happened. So like his parents never see him missing even though he was missing for weeks. After years of brutal experimentation, Stuart Swerllo swears he was able to time travel and that was

1:17:00

[clears throat] he was recruited for multiple missions that he was sent back through time to retrieve DNA samples of historical and biblical figures with the purpose to create clones which that part like

that's why I don't know. Um,

this does though make me think of the people who say they like go to sleep at night and then suddenly they live an entire like half a lifetime somewhere else and then they wake up and they're like, "Wait, what just happened?" Like I'm mourning my partner. I'm mourning my family. I'm mourning my kids. Like

I was supposed to pick them up from school and now I'm just like in this other life. I just woke up.

Yeah. There's so many more questions than answers. But apparently after all of these years and years of constant experiences from like 1970 all the way to August 12th of 1983, all of a sudden he said it felt like he had been unplugged on August 12th, 1983. What happened on August 12th, 1983? The Monto monster was released on the base and

1:18:00

Preston and his like comrades like cut the wires literally unplugging the system. He never could make any sense of it until he read Preston's book and that's when he came forward with his experiences and has since developed his own program for others who he believe have been victims of mind control. But this is where things get into the world of like not credible. He and his wife believe that this is not just a military experiment but was an act of the Illuminati who is trying to create compliant individuals and condition people to accept authority without question. And they're very very big on the Illuminati proponent. That's interesting. I I'm not buying into that one.

That's why I'm like But it I think it's like with so many repressed memories, just not trusting anyone or anything and not knowing what's true and feel and feeling like there has to be something so much bigger.

Yeah.

And it feels impossible for our government to have been doing all of these things by themselves that I think they have to believe it's something bigger. So

1:19:00

I just don't think it was

insert the Illuminati. [laughter] Um

other testimonies

yeah, there are other testimonies like a man named Alfred Beelick who came forward to later claim that the Montalk project was not the beginning, but it was a continuation of a failed project many years prior. He also claimed that through project Monttok he was able to travel to Mars and even traveled in time to see ancient civilizations that live on Mars. Others have come forward anonymously. There's um someone in the Monta Chronicles that's like, you know, a voice altered, no visual appearance that they call James who was terrified that the government is going to try to kill him for speaking out. But he details being selected through a gifted program at school and taken on a field trip to the Montalk Lighthouse, but was instead taken into a secret bunker and tested. And this brought forward cuz I've been seeing on TikTok like do you remember the gifted and talented programs like gate program in school? Yeah,

there's all these people coming forward and being like I was like tested on and people like remote viewing tested on

1:20:00

them and like all these things and now people are trying to attach like is that part of the Montalk project where some of these kids then taken on field trips and

and James talks about a time where he thought it was his dad telling him to get into a car, but his friend was like, "That is not your dad. That is not your dad. That's not your dad." And as they were driving away, he like looked back and he realized it wasn't his dad, but like he swore it was his dad at first. Like his mind was being [ __ ] with. Ooh, this is so creepy. How many people were a part of the gay program? I don't think we actually had it at my school, but I remember it like being a thing and hearing about it.

Well, and I also think about how easy it would be to do that to children because every parent wants to believe that their child is gifted. And if they're told by this program that came through school, like your child is gifted. We want to bring them a part of this program. Like only the select few are accepted into this program. Like

you'd be like, "Oh, my child is so special."

Would you believe it if I told you I actually got put in advanced math in

1:21:00

middle school? It was like me and five other kids.

I believe it.

Well, I tapped out at that level. [laughter]

We like

That's where that where where you peaked?

We didn't do any remote viewing. We were put in like the uh storage supply closet and just like given the next grade up of math [laughter]

in the storage supply closet.

It was really stuffy.

conspiracy or government secret?

So now is where we talk about whether this was real or not. Is this a conspiracy? Is this a real government secret? I mean I feel like there's multiple thoughts here. Like yes, it's all true. I mean like the we know the government has done tests very similar to this. Why not? Why couldn't this be true? Apparently Duncan Cameron has had like various brain scans on his brain and he's the one who like got all this like electro.

He did the manifestation the best.

Apparently in brain scans it appears like there's no oxygen going to his brain and he appears brain dead on all scans from like the waves basically

1:22:00

damaging his brain tissue. But he's, you know, doing his thing.

We really don't know as much as we think we do about the human brain. No, they do not. And if this is true, maybe it hasn't been publicized or declassified yet because it is ongoing. People are still being put through tests in other places. Just just because the Montalk base was shut down does not mean that others were.

Mhm.

Maybe it exists in the basement of the Pentagon.

Um

I know. Need to find that video.

But if it is true, that means hundreds if not thousands of people's memories were wiped. And if that's true, why isn't memory like why aren't people using that memory control more often

unless we are all being controlled?

But also, if we go based on Duncan and him seeing himself and his brother on the ship from 40 years prior, are all of the test subjects from modern day or are they pulled from many, many different

1:23:00

decades? So, it's almost impossible to piece everything together because they don't live at the same time or they're just, you know, one person's eight and the other person's 56 now, but they were both being tested on when they were seven. Yeah. It's just like confusing and there's no way for us to know like I don't think because of the like mass size of the supposed experiment. It's not like MK Ultra which was yes it was used like like not it wasn't a great experiment but like I feel like it was contained and wrapped up

that like documents were declassified but this feels massive and ongoing. I don't know. It just feels like

again who was in charge shots.

There's also the belief that it's entirely made up that Preston who loved electromagnetics and like radio waves like told a story. But if it is made up,

1:24:00

then shouldn't he get credit for Stranger Things? Because he [laughter] basically wrote Stranger Things before Stranger Things was made.

Yeah, he needs a some sort of kickback,

right? In the documentary Montto Chronicles, like the end of it, he's like, I don't necessarily care if other people believe me. I believe what I am saying is true. Like I I'm not lying. And I believe he believes what he saying is true. But also with so many layers of memory wiping, how do we know that what he thinks is true is true,

right? It's weird because it's like even if you even if all of this is true, what is the warning here? How do you stop anything? How do you like how do you even know what's going on when it's going on? Like there's it feels like there's no like protection. There's no like we have to do this to stop this or to control this or whatever. It's just like oh my god, this is happening. And then I'm also thinking back to my grandpa's own experience being tested on with LSD. Yeah.

And when he talks about it and when he talks about what happened to him, even though he knows he was on LSD, when he

1:25:00

describes it, it's as if it actually happened like and then I did this and then I saw this and it's like

but you didn't actually become an ant and crawl under the rug.

You were drugged.

Yeah. You were on drugs,

right?

Which is the power of the mind. So like is mind control possible? Probably. That is a version of mind control where like you make someone believe something that didn't actually like really happen.

Yeah.

Montauk Airbase / Camp Hero today

But today Monttok is this sought after beach town. Its population shifts drastically with the season. Quiet in winter, packed in the summer. It's the location of one of my personal favorite Bravo shows, Summerhouse. [laughter] Um, as for Camp Hero and the Monta Air Base, it is the Camp Hero State Park, a place where you can visit today. I think it's like $8 admission, but a lot of the standing structures are closed off and off limits. The massive radar tower still dominates the landscape. I don't know. I don't have the technology to tell if it's putting out sound waves

1:26:00

still. Regardless, it remains a freaking mystery. And as we come to the end of this episode, I think it's very clear how this conspiracy, whether true or not, inspired the show Stranger Things. And it was fun to like research and like learn more about the origins,

all the connections. It reminds me of so many different shows, too. I feel like it's hard. It's like, do all these shows pull inspiration from something like this? Or do those thoughts, this idea, universal consciousness,

right?

I do for sure believe that this I mean, it literally was originally called Mantra. This one is Stranger Things, but I'm thinking about like the OA and like some of some of those sort of things.

What I can say for a fact is this. Leading up to the supposed Mont project, there are very real and now declassified studies that the government was in fact running like MK Ultra and Stargate. The government has admitted to these decades after the fact. So, the question isn't whether secret government experiments happened. The question is how many are there that we still don't fully understand. And as Albelik said or

1:27:00

Belik, Monttok wasn't the beginning. It was the continuation of another failed experiment. An experiment that happened many years earlier. An experiment that involved a ship, a vanished crew, and an even deeper conspiracy of time travel, teleportation, and secrecy. The Philadelphia Project, which Karen will cover next week. It's crazy.

Oh, it is so crazy. And it's also like tinfoil hat, not trusting the government. I don't need a tinfoil hat to say that I don't trust. [laughter]

Well, that was like in in the in the um documentary Monta Chronicles. Like that's like kind of the message that the filmmaker wants to like portray is that we should always be questioning our government. We have evidence of our governments throughout history, not just the US. Like literally every government has lied to its people,

right? And it's like these are just what

1:28:00

they're admitting to. The declassified is what they're willing to share. They're giving crumbs to the people to be like, "Oh, look, see, we'll eventually find out everything."

But will we?

No. Unless we're taken beneath the Montalk air base into the secret bunkers and strapped into the Montalk chair and travel through time and get all the answers. And then Bigfoot comes through and saves you and says, "I won't let them experiment on you anymore. Let me return you to your body."

Yeah.

And we'll go garden in your backyard when you wake up.

Bigfoot was destroying the base cuz it was bad.

Yes.

Yeah.

So upset with what he was seeing.

Yeah.

I would be too.

Same.

listener stories

Okay. So, I have two short emails to read because I was like, there's so much telepathy and everything like that involved that I was like, I want to find like a couple examples of people today who

have kids experiencing potentially some telepathic communication.

Okay, this first one's from Chelsea. I have a three and a half-year-old daughter and my son is turning one in

1:29:00

two days. They're the best of friends and I swear they're traveling souls. They definitely have been brother and sister in many lifetimes. It's very sweet. Today I was giving my daughter Charlotte a bath while Malcolm, my son, was napping in the other room. The house was silent other than the sound of bath time. I was plucking my chin hairs. Thanks, kids. [laughter] While Charlotte played mermaid tail when she looks up at me and says, "Mama Malcolm is awake." I didn't hear him crying, which he always does when he wakes up. So, I checked the monitor and sure enough, he's awake. He's just sitting on the floor bed looking around. After we finished our routine, I was sitting with them in the living room and I asked Charlotte how she knew Malcolm was awake. She responds without hesitation. I saw a picture in my head. A picture in her head. Was that clairvoyance?

Thought you would enjoy this much attached.

And this is another sign that like as a child, and this is also sadly why I think they targeted so many children in the Believed Montalk project

is because they're way more open.

Right. Okay. Okay. And I have one more

1:30:00

one more to share. Hello girls, ghouls, Leia, and the extended podcast family. My name is Christine and you can use my name. I have a weird ability to connect with certain people and I've done it since I was a child. The first instance that I know of was when I was really young, maybe four or five. It was Christmas time and my mom was thinking about what to get me for Christmas. She'd seen a chair of some sort and was wondering in her head what color I would want. From the backseat of the car, I say, "I want a purple one."

Oh, chills. We have a very strong connection, which can be a real pain sometimes, especially when I would try to get away with things when I was younger. It still happens frequently, even like showing up wearing similar outfits or the same color shirt, even though we don't live in the same house anymore. Another connection I have is with my best friend. We can read each other like crazy. She lives in another state and we've only met like three times in person and two of those were just for a few hours as she's incarcerated. She's called me when I'm in the middle of a really bad day, knowing something's wrong, when she would have no way of knowing.

I can tell her mood before she even

1:31:00

speaks on the phone. And one big instance in particular is when my ex broke up with me. She called me shortly after it happened and just knew. And neither of us can really lie to the other as we always just know. with spooky vibes. Christine, I mean, I I wonder if you have this with like Brian or like people in your life, and I feel like you and I could even have it, but like when you're sitting next to someone and you can hear their thoughts, you can't hear specifically what they're thinking, but you like it's so loud. Like the energy is so loud.

Like I feel like that just proves that the ability to telepathically communicate does exist. or like even when the conversation like a conversation pivots or like just a subject so incredibly unrelated to anything else that was being talked about is brought up and you just were thinking the exact same thing like a second.

Yeah,

that I feel like happens a lot. I also feel like, you know, people always say like mother's intuition or or whatever. Even when I'm not in the same pl there's

1:32:00

been like only twice where we Brian and I have gone away for weddings and my parents have watched Noah and I wake up 30 seconds before Noah does. I always wake up before he does.

It also makes so much sense cuz he literally was connected to you.

Yeah.

Like you grew him inside.

The other thing is like with my dad who didn't grow me inside of his body.

Sure. Like when my dad talk like my dad is the king of out of context picking up in a sentence in the middle of what would have been a conversation that's been happening in his head but not out loud and it's just like said the most random thing or talks about the most random person and my mom and my brother are always like what are you talking about? But I am right there with her. I'm in the same conversation.

Well you and your dad are like twins so

that's true. We look exactly [laughter] the same. I'm Bill with a wig. If you want to see what I'm going to look like in my 60s, just look up Bill P. [laughter]

Yeah, because you're going to shave your head.

Maybe. I don't know. We'll see.

Damn. Well, you tell us. Do you believe

1:33:00

in the Mont Talk Project? And is it still ongoing? Email us at two girls podcastgmail.com with all of your paranormal stories and spooky happenings and we'll read them.

Join us on Patreon, YouTube,

all the things. We love you. [laughter] I'm like so lost in thought about this whole subject. It's it's hard. We need to decompress.

Yes, we love you all.

Shout out to Jamie for editing and producing our podcast and Emma for producing and helping with socials and everything else. Thank you to our team and we love all of you and we will see you on the other side.

Very spooky.