Wyoming’s First Female Serial Killer Lived in This Haunted Ghost Town | Paranormal Podcast (Ep 364)

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I'm pregnant.

[laughter]

So happy women's history month everyone.

Take your tits out.

Hello. Hi. I have bedazzled bejeweled pants. So lovely. And they are bringing me so much joy. Like

I love that.

Like such a simple thing. Levi's. They remind me of this pair of jeans. They were my favorite pants I had in like eighth grade.

Oh, I thought Oh, yeah, okay. Continue.

And what what do you think?

You had these pair of pants that like held your butt so nicely. Weren't they Levi's?

When?

They were like wedgie jeans.

Yeah, probably Levi's. Yeah, wait, when

1:00

That was my favorite pair of your

When when in body? When was this?

A few years ago. Maybe when we were in college? Or no, post college.

You never told me this.

In person I definitely did.

No, you I don't think I would think I would remember if you complimented how cute my butt was. You've never told me my butt was cute.

I think I did 10 years ago and you just forgot.

I Trust me, I would never forget that. I will never forget this moment.

Okay, well, bring your wedgie jeans back.

Cuz those were looking good, Sabrina.

Thanks.

I for sure said stuff then, but I think

I mean, I blocked out a lot of my life, so

Yeah, there was lots of other stuff happening. That's true. You know.

But um, yeah.

Saturday that I complimented your butt.

[laughter]

Now we don't need drinks for butt compliments. Now we can do it on a couch talking about ghosts.

Well, I love them. They're very cute.

Thank you. I'm really happy with my choice to spend money to bring joy.

Well, the actual jean is a lot softer than I thought it was going to be, too.

Yeah. No, like these are like a very comfortable pant.

You need to start linking stuff on your

2:00

Shop My. I made you get one because people always ask where you get your clothes.

I'll link them.

Link them.

Maybe.

This is Two Girls, One Ghost.

Two Girls, One Ghost. We are your ghostesses. That is Corinne.

Hello.

I'm Sabrina.

Corinne’s announcement

Happy Women's History Month. We love women.

I'm pregnant.

[laughter]

Women are crazy.

Yeah, whoa. That's wild.

For real though, like wait, why isn't Sabrina reacting? It's cuz I've known for forever.

Yeah, and like 2 seconds before we recorded, you said, "When are you going to tell people?" I said, "Now."

This episode? I don't know. I guess now.

I guess now.

A lot of people have known.

How? Like just intuitively?

Just know it. Like I think like occasionally I'll respond to like a DM or something. And like I've told a couple people just randomly.

[laughter]

Like it's come up in conversation and people are like, "Oh my god, I was going to" Like people indicated that they had an inclination, but wouldn't ever say anything.

That's nice of them because for months

3:00

So, you told me in the beginning of November, right after you found out cuz you were like, "We have to get ahead on the podcast. I'm not waiting. We're just going to I'm just telling you."

Well, you were actually Okay, context. I'm in London. It's in November. There was 1 week that I was taking Campfire Stories off.

I found out on Halloween. I took my pregnancy test on Halloween.

But so, you're like, "I have to cancel Campfire Stories. I have to go to the hospital. Like there's something wrong." And I was like, "Bitch, like what's going on?" And you're like, "I'll tell you when you get back." I'm like, "No, no, no, no. Are you pregnant? Like what other reason are you going to get

Yeah, you could have said, "Are you pregnant?"

Yeah. And then you called me and you were like, "I was going to wait until you're back." I was like, "What? You think I wasn't going to react to you having to go to the hospital? Like I'm just going to be like, "Okay, good luck, girlfriend."

Yeah.

But yeah, so I've known.

And other people have known, too. You know, there were signs.

Yeah, well

Me sipping on water that was suddenly cut with like orange juice to try to get it down.

Just so like be able to drink it.

The rapid weight gain.

All my clear the birthday

Actually, we can play the clip.

4:00

Guys, so unattractive. But yeah, it's my classic sign.

Because we had Jamie cut it for us because

second I burped on camera, Jamie was like

She's pregnant. [laughter]

So there's a clip.

And we'll play it right now.

Us. Sorry, Jamie. This is only the beginning of this.

Jamie's going to know. She's [laughter] going to know.

She's going to know.

Jamie, I burped.

Baby, you have to cut this.

[laughter]

Surprise.

Surprise.

If you didn't know from all my recent belches.

I like that you looked right into the camera for that one.

[snorts] [laughter]

After you had told me there was someone who commented like on a YouTube video being like Sabrina's pregnant or she's about to be. And I was like, you're picking up on the wrong energy here.

Oh my god, you know who knew I was pregnant from reading the universe was Litha, our resident tarot reader and friend.

And which?

And which? She was doing a reading for you, Sabrina. And then she was like,

5:00

"Your sister's pregnant." No, not your sister. You know what? Never mind.

Yeah.

Just forget that I said anything.

Yeah.

And then like a week later I was like, "You know something." She was like, "I wasn't going to say anything."

Yeah. It's crazy.

Yeah.

Women are amazing. Karina is literally building a creating life inside her womb at this moment.

This pregnancy, I will say, I feel for for pregnant people now. My first pregnancy was so much easier with Noah. Like now I understand

with a kid, too, which is a lot more.

Yeah, but with Noah, I threw up. Like I had really bad reflux with Noah, but I threw up like maybe a total of eight times total. That like whole pregnancy.

You've been really sick this time.

This time I had to go on medicine cuz I couldn't keep water or food down. For weeks, I threw up 10-plus times a day. I still threw up five times a week, which at first I'm 20 weeks pregnant. Do you want to tell people the gender or no? It's a boy. Okay. I thought it was going to be a girl because I was so sick. I was like, "There's no way." Like because it was so different from your pregnancy

6:00

with Noah, you thought it was a girl. Yeah. I was barely alive for a while.

[laughter]

And you probably couldn't tell cuz she was still showing up, still recording.

people could tell. No, but you were

Lots of people could tell.

[laughter]

You were still doing your your job. You were researching and recording.

Holding myself up like [laughter] this on the couch. Taking tiny sips of things. Taking breaks that no one saw because of our editor to go throw up.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a boy. I'm due July 15th, but I'm guessing July 4th.

What do you guys

[laughter]

Everybody What do you think?

Place your bet. Venmo me $1. You'll never see it again.

[laughter]

Uh just stealing everyone's money.

[laughter]

Uh it will be put to

my meds.

Yeah, I was going to say it will be put to good use. Um but yeah, congrats. We're

Thanks.

excited for another spooky kid, creepy kid to join the family.

I'm excited not to be pregnant.

[laughter]

Um but yeah,

7:00

I think I want to be grateful that I'm pregnant and I've gotten halfway.

Yeah.

But at the same time it's like, "Oh my god." It is tough on your body.

You're halfway already. That's wild.

Yeah. Well, by the time this comes out,

Damn.

right now I'm

a few weeks shy.

Oh, I'm 19 weeks today.

Oh my gosh.

So, when does this come out?

Mar- No, this is like almost a month from now.

I'm more than halfway.

[laughter]

I I sure look it.

That's

You You popped really quickly.

Really quickly. I like actually like week eight.

Yeah.

[laughter]

It's funny though because I feel like in a lot of the podcast recordings you've been doing this, which I don't know if that was intentional or if that's just a comfort thing cuz this is comfortable.

It well, you you did it in an episode, and I realized how comfortable it would be that also it would cover my stomach. So then I started doing it. But it was because of you.

Regina George

I clocked it.

wore flip-flops and cargo jeans.

But now I'm beyond it cuz there's only two pairs of pants that [laughter] fit and my shirts are like I'm constant instead of I just have to say it and let it loose instead of constantly wearing

8:00

the same sweatshirt and picking at it.

Yeah.

Anyhow,

Women are magical and we love them and we want to honor them.

Yeah, so I picked out a story connected to women's history.

Hell yeah.

For your women's history month.

Bless.

There go the burps.

I'm pregnant.

[laughter]

That that can be the first like one second of the episode.

[laughter]

There's no like delicate, lovely way that I've ever announced my pregnancies.

You were The last time you announced it was like beautiful. I cried.

Yeah, but then a lot of people made comments about how I I said, "Went on tour, got sent home, got knocked up." Like it wasn't like a

I called you a [ __ ] like immediately.

Yeah, you called me a [laughter] [ __ ] Like there was nothing like

Oh [gasps] my god. Not magical. Yeah.

[laughter]

But that's also not who you are.

Yeah. I'm rugged.

[laughter]

South Pass City, Wyoming

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Moving on. Deep in the Wind River Mountains of Wyoming, sits a town frozen in time.

Oh, a ghost town?

It's a ghost town.

Fine.

It's a ghost town by definition.

Okay.

It's also something else. It is a place where the gold rush collided with politics and somehow sparked a movement that changed the country and women's rights.

Oh, hell yeah. Okay.

This is the town of South Pass City, Wyoming. In 1869, while the rest of the country was still debating if women should have the right to vote, a group of rowdy miners and visionary saloon keepers decided that here in the wild west, it was time for a change. It was time for some equality.

Hell yeah, in the Wild West? Yeah.

What a place for this to happen. But in the Wild West, making progress is not easy, right? And a lot of that usually came with bloodshed, a lot of resistance. But that did not stop the people of South Pass City. And the events that took place would make South Pass, Wyoming, go down in history. So happy Women's History Month,

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everyone.

Take your tits out.

Yeah, show us

Celebrate with your tits.

nipple.

[laughter]

Zoom in so much that I can just It looks like a color block, a color swatch.

Please don't send us pictures of your nipples.

of your nipple color. And we'll change our

And we'll send you your your best fitting lipstick.

[laughter]

It's a subscription box.

We analyze your nipple color and we put together nail polish, lipstick, blush, all based on your nipple color.

Right? Yeah, you get these pants,

[laughter]

but the jewels are the color of your nipples. Tits out for the girls.

Um yeah, please don't send us pictures of your nipples.

No, spook yourself.

Yeah.

You wait, you want that? You want people to to fill our inbox

I don't want a boy nipple. I'd take a girl nipple.

Okay.

That sounds wrong. It just doesn't feel like an attack if a girl sends you her nipple. It just feels like sharing. We're just in the bathroom sharing our nipple colors.

[laughter]

If a man sends me his nipple,

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That feels intrusive.

a threat.

Yeah. You'll come for him.

Yeah. Oh, no, I won't.

You'll like attack him. Oh.

[laughter]

Okay.

Inappropriate episode.

We're women. We're We're moving women's We're progressing. No, we're not.

[laughter]

I think we're

I'm We're progressing.

We're regressing right now. Okay, back

the gold rush boom

to South Pass, Wyoming.

Okay.

So before South Pass City was a town, South Pass was a route through one of the most important natural gateways across the Rocky Mountains.

The gateway to hell?

The [laughter] gateway to hell.

It was actually a gateway across the Continental Divide. It was like a [snorts] gentle In compa- It wasn't really gentle, but like in comparison to a lot of other ways to cross the the Continental Divide in the Rocky Mountains, this was like a go-to route. It was a major route for people who were immigrating west to Oregon and California and on the Mormon Trails and all of that. And this was like basically

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the time of the Gold Rush. So, a lot of people were traveling west.

Okay.

So, when gold was discovered nearby this pass in the 1860s, people were already very familiar with the area and how to reach it.

Mhm.

Most people had already been like traveling through the area, so there was a little bit of a boom here because

Cool.

it was already Yeah, there's gold and like people were already familiar with the area.

Men and their nipples came flocking.

They did. And then they opened up saloons and the boys were on the tables.

Showed off their nipples.

off to the miners.

[laughter]

This thing.

What I've actually you doing that dance move made me think of the episode I'm researching for the March Patreon bonus is also this amazing women's history like story, but it's also a story about sex with a ghost. But the woman, Ida Craddock, she was a sex radical. She was like giving sex advice and like column doing columns all about it, but during the World's Fair, there was someone doing belly dancing.

Ooh, belly dancing is so cool.

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And people were flabbergasted and are so offended by it because it was so sexual and Ida Craddock stood up for it.

Well, it's it's I guess it's sexual cuz it's really hard to do. It's like

Yeah, it was like the gyrating of the hips. I mean, this is also like the 1800s, 1900s, so.

Yeah, well, and they're showing their torso.

Any skin.

God forbid a belly button is shown.

God forbid.

We all have them.

Yeah.

Not Khloe Kardashian's why though.

True. A very real character in our world.

[laughter]

That we personally know.

Yeah, our good friend.

Carlotta Carlotta Sue.

Who does not have a belly button.

[laughter]

While traces of gold had been found in Sweetwater Creek as early as 1842, this area, while it was a good place to pass and like viewed as one of the gentler routes across the Continental Divide, it was still a bit treacherous and dangerous for most people to like truly stop and spend time in.

Mhm.

So, it wasn't until 1866 when the US troops arrived to guard the telegraph lines and the Pony Express stations,

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which was like the mail system via horseback, that this area became deemed as like safe enough for a full-blown gold rush.

Mhm.

In the summer of 1867, Mormon pioneer Lewis Robinson and his associate Joshua Terry discovered gold-bearing quartz and word of this discovery spread like wildfire. And this is what sparked the full-on movement to the area cuz they were like, you know, hints things had been found. Still not a great area to truly stop in, but then it's like, oh, someone is striking the jackpot here. Everyone come a-running. In the same year, the Carissa or Carissa Mine, which was discovered by H.S. Redall, so all men so far, but don't worry, I'm getting to the ladies, it becomes the heart of the mining operation.

Okay.

It's the district's largest and longest operating mine, but it has a history that we're not going to get into of like legal battles, clashes with Native American communities,

Of course.

equipment failures, all of this stuff that's getting in the way.

Drama.

Drama. Miners, the work conditions as we

15:00

know, I don't think there was one mine that actually had decent conditions. Like it was frankly terrifying. And here in this mine, they were using only one candle per day to light their way through the tunnels.

Like what?

Suffocating darkness. Apparently that is what an article said. And you got to believe everything that's on the internet. Is that a long-burning candle? My god. The longest 12-ft tall single candle.

Slow burn.

But people did continue to emigrate west in search for gold and so many did stop in this area. By the following year, South Pass had over 2,000 residents. And this is kind of like it depends on what article you look at, but some articles I read said that at its height the population was about 4,000

Okay.

people in this area. So it's still a small town, but like

But that's like a big town for back then.

Yeah, it wasn't supposed to be a permanent town. It's like you stop in, you try to get your gold and then you leave. The town was built up with

16:00

saloons, hotels, a post office, a jail, and many other businesses to support the population and the mining.

Mhm.

Um but again, it's not like it's this permanent growing metropolis. It is specifically for mining purposes.

Yeah.

The housing was kind of like more ramshackled and, you know, thrown together. It wasn't like a glamorous place to stay. And most of the miners, as soon as they were paid for their work, just essentially went to the dozens of saloons and breweries and

drank their earnings.

Yeah, they're Are they called breweries back then? I don't know. Bars, saloons. The saloons.

Yeah.

Yeah, they just went to go drink and have sex, see women's bodies.

Yeah.

So it was just kind of just being like a little bit of a rougher, dirtier place. And unfortunately, this area didn't deliver as much as people had hoped.

Right.

were really low returns. It was really hard work, brutal winter conditions. And people were soon lured away by other

17:00

like big

Right.

gold maybe it wasn't something

fruitful. They were like, well, we got to find something else.

Totally. Yeah, rumors of bigger strikes elsewhere. They're like, we're out of here.

Yeah.

By 1872, the population had dropped to only a few hundred people. So this is like a really short period of history.

to a couple hundred.

Yeah, that's

Yeah, and this is over just a few years.

Yeah.

So, while most people didn't luck out here with a strike in gold and striking they struck out. They struck out. The area did produce a decent amount of wealth. Between the Carissa Carissa mine, expanding operations, stamp mills that were in the area, the area produced about $7 million worth of gold, but still in comparison to other places it was far too slow, too little return for gold miners.

Mhm.

And so, people started leaving and the town quickly started thinning out. And as it's thinning out and businesses are closing and families are leaving, this is the time that something was ignited amongst the remaining people of South

18:00

Pass City.

What was ignited?

Human rights.

Oh, [laughter] okay.

Women's rights.

Great.

NOCD

Uh anyone else out there with OCD?

[laughter]

Corinne has it.

I was very lucky that I had a mom who clocked it and sent me to get help when I was 14, but not everyone's so lucky.

Mhm.

And that is why we're very happy to be partnered with NOCD.

And OCD is a serious and highly misunderstood condition that causes people to get stuck in this like cycle of stress and unwanted thoughts and that can become debilitating. So, we're grateful to partner with NOCD because with the right kind of help from a specialized therapist who truly understands what you're experiencing and is trained to treat it, OCD is extremely manageable.

And at NOCD every therapist deeply understands OCD and they go through extensive training to recognize and effectively treat OCD. And NOCD accepts most major insurance plans and is covered for over 155 million Americans.

That's a big deal.

Plus, NOCD makes sure you're supported between sessions as well. So, they have

19:00

in-app tools, messaging with therapists, peer communities, live support groups, all in an app.

If you're ready to start getting help from a therapist who truly understands OCD, visit NOCD.com to book a free call. That's nocd.com.

the suffrage law

So yeah, I said at the top of this episode that like this is connected to women's history and it certainly is. And what I like about the story is that it's set in a place that you wouldn't anticipate milestones or like progress to happen at all because it's you think Wild West, you think like cowboys and gun singing and robbery. Yeah. It's just men. Totally. And yet this town becomes intertwined with the earliest legal victories for women's political rights in the US.

I love that.

On December 10th, 1869, Wyoming became the first US territory to grant women the right to vote and hold office when the territorial legislature passed a women's suffrage bill and Governor John A. Campbell signed it. So

20:00

Wyoming was called the first place on God's green earth that could consistently claim to be the land of the free because of this.

Oh.

And here is the South Pass City connection. A saloon keeper and mine owner named William Bright, representing South Pass City in Wyoming's first territorial legislature, was the one who introduced the suffrage bill.

Mhm.

Now, [clears throat] there's some debate and rumors on like what his motives were to pass the bill. Some people were like, oh well, he might have been proposing it because he was trying to attract more settlers to the area, especially women cuz like everyone was

leaving.

So whatever the reason, still a breakthrough none nonetheless that this bill is put forth. And on December 1969, the bill is passed, which is a massive win.

For the whole state.

Yeah.

Wow.

Now, two years later, the legislature would try to actually repeal the act because women were not voting in the way that the Democratic Party had hoped.

21:00

LOL. Uh but Governor Campbell vetoed that repeal.

Thank you, Campbell.

[laughter]

I literally like had not I If you were watching a YouTube video, I didn't I like I gave the expression of smuh

Yeah.

without shaking my head.

[laughter]

Because of this, Wyoming is known as the equality state, and in 1890, it refused to join the Union as a state unless its women were allowed to keep their voting rights. They literally told the US Congress, "We will remain out of the Union 100 years rather than come in without the women." Supposedly.

Wow.

It's hard cuz like history gets rewritten. But that's what is said to have happened.

Yeah.

Okay, so let's back up again to December of 1969 when the bill was passed. Just 2 months later, in February of 1870, some say the exact date was February 14th, so on Valentine's Day.

Lovingly.

Valentine's Day.

Galentine's Day. South Pass City resident Esther Hobart Morris was

22:00

appointed Justice of the Peace, making her the first woman in the US to hold public office, where she would preside over and this number, depending on what article I was reading, changed, but between like 26 and 34 cases through [snorts] November of that year.

Wow.

So, Esther's role was really, really important at this time because she she had stated herself that basically like being in this position and being the first woman to hold this position, she felt like it was a test not of her abilities, but of all women.

I also just can't even imagine how horrific she was treated by like men in politics.

Oh, well, thank you for bringing that up because on her very first day, her predecessor, John Stillman, refused to hand over his court docket to her because she was a woman. Esther did not argue with him. Instead, she locked him up in Sweetwater County Jail.

[laughter]

Yes.

23:00

him go the next day stating that her own self-interest felt like a conflict of interest in this case and she didn't think that that was fair. But nonetheless I made a statement.

Yeah.

And she was known for not taking [ __ ] from any man. She was also 6 ft tall, which I love because that means like the majority of men who were looking up they were literally looking up at her like shaking in their boots as she decided their fate.

[laughter and gasps]

Wait, let me guess what you're watching. Love is Blind.

No.

Uh there's like one guy who's like, "I'm 5 ft 11 and 3/4." And

So he's 5'9.

Right. And then but he keeps saying like, "I'm not lying. I'm not saying I'm 6 ft." And it's like it's almost worse. Like saying 5 ft 11 in 3 and 3/4 is like is more of an ick than just like rounding [clears throat] up and saying 6 ft. Like most men men do.

be his delivery. Like he's he's trying to be make a joke and be silly.

like the one guy who really pisses me off.

Oh.

So yeah. I mean there's a lot of them in Love is Blind that pisses me off. But

I have no interest in watching the most

24:00

recent season cuz I saw a lineup of all the people and I can't tell the difference between a single man.

They make a joke about that.

Oh, do they?

Yeah. One cuz one of the girls

who any of who any of these couples are. Like all the guys look exactly the same.

One of the girls is like, "I can't tell the difference between the three of you." Like once they actually meet each other.

Oh wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And she's dating one of them.

[laughter]

Uh there's a rumor or I guess like a myth called the tea party myth that suggested that Esther convinced William Bright over tea to pass the suffrage bill.

Hm.

But most historians say that that is likely not true. It's a fabricated tale to make her seem less threatening to the male establishment. I guess like that she can, you know, successfully work with men. Maybe. I don't know.

My thought is like what she laced the tea with? [laughter]

Oh well, that's a good segue into something that's coming, too.

Oh, okay.

Uh apparently she was dubbed {quote} the terror of all rogues.

25:00

So, it sounds to me like she was trying to serve some justice.

Hell yeah.

as affable as people were hoping for. So, yeah, she was a badass. And she held the position and was the first woman in US history to do so.

That's amazing.

Today there's a massive bronze statue of her outside of the Wyoming capital building. So, I love women.

Right.

So cool. Also, do you want to see a picture of her?

If you're watching on YouTube you've This is already flashed up on the screen. She's got like striking light eyes.

Oh my goodness.

She's wearing a little She's wearing a a crown.

Little

A tiara.

Love her.

She's a girl's girl. South Pass City is often described as the birthplace of women's suffrage, which I feel like a lot of places can say that they

Yeah.

Yeah, [laughter] like this is not like the one place. Um but basically it's in reference to Wyoming territory becoming the first US territory to grant women the right to vote, office holding rights, and that was 50 years before the 19th Amendment.

26:00

Damn.

It's in reference to the South Pass City legislator William Bright introducing the bill and a South Pass City resident Esther Hobart Morris becoming the first woman to hold public office in the US in 1870.

that is a big deal, especially like it has it had to start somewhere and that it started here is really cool.

in a old Wild West mining town that was like on the brink of becoming a ghost town. [clears throat]

Yeah. Damn.

So, very cool history.

ghost town murders & hauntings

A rough history of people seeking more for themselves and their country, whether it be in gold, rights, equality, and this area served the people as a means to do so, as a means to to put forth what they believed to be right. And then it became a ghost town.

Yeah.

In 1966 it was gifted to the Wyoming State Parks as a preservation gift to ensure that it wouldn't disappear like many of the other gold rush towns, especially given all of its historical ties to what I just discussed.

Yeah.

27:00

So, this was given to Wyoming State Parks and they've done a really amazing job at like preserving some of the buildings because there's still structures on the land. And it's also it was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1970.

I love visiting old Wild West towns.

I've never gotten to go to one.

Never? No.

Because I've never been to the to the West.

I'm trying to think.

Like outside of when we're on tour, which is like you see

Did you ever go to the one in Palm Springs?

No. Why did I not make the connection that I lived in California and like so much of the gold rush was in California and I never I always think of like the other states.

[laughter]

Yeah, well, I haven't been to Colorado really.

The desert, yeah. But no, that I just think they're so cool. I mean, any place that is like a historic building that they've either the old furnishings and like things were left behind and are there on display that you can see, or that people have like dressed in that

28:00

era. I just there's something so magical about it and I feel like all the Wild West towns that I've been to, one of my favorite ones is actually in Death Valley. In Is that Utah? Arizona? Or Nevada? It's like you drive through the desert and you kind of go through all those states. But anyway, Death Valley. That might have been in California. Anyway, Death Valley, there's like a a like a old like a little gold area. But what I love is that they the floors are always like dirty and dusty.

Oh.

And I feel like that's

That's like what it was

what it was, yeah.

Did you ever like get gold? Like did you do the actual like

I think I I've definitely done one of those rock things, but

Yeah.

definitely did not get gold.

Didn't get gold. Shoot.

You got to go back and

to go back.

[laughter]

I'm telling you. So cool. I would love to go to one.

I think there's a place in New Jersey. I mean it's like a an amusement park type of situation.

Oh, yeah. I've been to one of those where it's like they have the thing set up and you can like do the sifting and all that.

those rubber band guns.

29:00

Yeah.

We'd probably love those. They're painful. Okay, so of course a town that has a lot of mining accidents, exposure, violence, illness, harsh conditions, harsh people, and death, lots of death, and sometimes murder, can certainly become haunted.

Hell, yeah.

Anything can become haunted.

Any truly anything can. Uh so, a couple of the murders we're going to go through. A notorious 1875 unsolved murder was of a man named George McCauley who was shot during a card game at South Pass City's Exchange Saloon. And the Exchange Saloon Saloon is one of the buildings that's still standing. So, you can go in there. Which it looks like especially small shops.

did it because other people were watching the card game, but they just never

They're apparently like in the back of a really small room and so like the story was like, "Oh, it was a card game gone wrong." But then other people were like, "No, this was an intentional hit." Like there's an actually a conspiracy behind

30:00

it. And apparently the person like it's unsolved because the person was never caught, I guess, or tried.

That's why I'm like I feel like either like it's the Wild West like he shot and gone on his horse and got away. Or they all knew who it was and they just kind of like

Yeah.

looked the other way.

person's Apparently their name is E.S. Tomkins. So, local lore says McCauley still haunts the Exchange Saloon, which you can go into the building. Uh people report seeing a shadowy figure moving around the abandoned saloon. And so some people theorize that this is George waiting for his murder to be solved. And if you're like, "Oh my gosh, I feel so bad for him." Like he's going to be waiting forever.

Maybe not. What do you mean?

Every year, they from what I could see online, every year there's actually a murder mystery dinner party put on where like there's actual historical facts and evidence for George McCombie's death presented, and like the dinner is trying

31:00

to solve his murder. So, if there like are true sleuths out there or like someone finally makes a connection or something, like it's set up like a fun dinner party, but like they're actually given the opportunity to actually solve

A new goal unlocked.

Right? Like that is so cool.

dinner party.

I think that that's how it is. It was hard for me to differentiate cuz you know how sometimes like and props to the copywriters out there who work on the event. It was hard for me to be like, okay, how much is of this is like truly factual about George's case that's being presented, and how much is built into the game to make it like a fun dinner party. So, I'm not sure. And then I was like reading some people's blog posts about their experience, and I So, that's what made me think that it was a lot of like the true facts of his case.

Damn. You know what this reminds me of is and I really want to start doing this. I just don't have enough friends yet um here in Massachusetts, but I really want to do a themed dinner party

32:00

Mhm.

where I want to host it, and but I basically give a topic to everyone before the dinner party.

this like PowerPoint ones?

No, no, no.

Oh.

But like I I want to like go back to the time where it was like Mary Shelley, Percy Shelley, like and like their group of like writers and novelists that who got together and they'd have drinks and then they'd write whatever, but in the idea of let's say it's Jack the Ripper, that's the theme, and everyone before the dinner does research, looks up Jack the Ripper, and then the whole dinner we're discussing Jack the Ripper and our theories because we've done the research before hand.

Yeah. I mean, that case was just solved, right?

Yeah, through DNA, right?

Yeah.

But like things like that where I want to have like a specific topic where we like in preparation for the dinner we're all consuming information about that topic and then we can have cuz I feel like sometimes you

33:00

you meet people or you're hanging out with people and you don't know what they're talking about and you can't really feel like you can join into the conversation, but if everyone comes with the same preparation I feel like you prime yourself for a really good conversation.

hat and when you get too deep in conspira- conspiracies like when you get that point in the conversation everyone has to put on the hat.

[laughter]

Yes. And we can even do it with conspiracy theories where you like pick the Gateway Tapes or what was the one I just covered? The Montauk Project.

Yes.

And there's so many conspiracies that you can like go down during a dinner party.

Like what I say I think that that's an amazing idea and what I would say to anyone who's right now thinking like oh conspiracy theories that's so silly. Look at the world and how many conspiracy theories just in the past decade have been proven to be true. It's upsetting. So you should actually maybe believe everything and work to disprove it.

Believe everything and believe no one.

[laughter]

Oh, that's good. Get that tattooed on on my nip.

34:00

Take a picture.

Really [laughter] zoom in. That will throw off the coloration.

Okay, so yes, George was murdered in the saloon. Potentially there's his spirit haunting and potentially there's the opportunity to still solve his case. But there is another case or cases that happened here that have been solved because there was a killer. There was a serial killer in South Pass City.

Oh, no.

The murderess of Slaughterhouse Gulch, Polly Bartlett, who was the first serial killer in Wyoming.

Wait, we got to say this. The murderess of equality.

[laughter]

Equal rights. Female rage.

was a poisoner?

Yeah.

But I love that it's the murderess of the slaughterhouse because that sounds like such a violent physical serial killer.

Yeah.

Yeah, it sounds like you're about to be like chopped up into pieces and like thrown down a body shoot.

Yeah.

So, not quite as gruesome. Some historians have said that Polly's story

35:00

is lore. But according to that lore, Polly lured businessmen and other wealthy travelers to her family's lodge, which she shared with her father. She would give them a meal, a glass of whiskey. That whiskey was laced. They would fall asleep, aka be poisoned to death, and then Polly would take their valuables like gold, and then left her father, Jim, to deal with the bodies. What he did with the bodies was just bury them on their property. 22 victims in total. 22

That reminds me so much of the like the coach house murders. Why am I thinking of the name? But like the true serial killers where they would rob the people who stayed and then they had the trapdoor.

Oh.

Was that in Charleston, South Carolina? I don't remember. Oh, was it Lavinia Fisher?

Wasn't it Lavinia? Yeah.

Yeah. There we go. It reminds me of Lavinia Fisher.

She's supposedly like the first

serial killer?

female serial killer in the US.

But she was doing very similar thing where it was like stealing their possessions.

Right.

36:00

Mhm.

So, this is kind of like the

their MO in in the process of killing and disposing of of their victims. If anyone came looking for these men, Polly and her father would say that they heard some outlaws were looking for them, or that some of the Native American groups were looking for them. Basically being like, "Hey, I've heard a rumor that there's another group of people that had a special interest in the person that you're looking for. Go there. Go find those people and you might find some more clues as to what happened to your loved ones, instead of all roads lead to the slaughterhouse. Yeah. Apparently, the murder hustle was not new for Polly and her dad. So, they actually first created this murder scam in their saloon in Ohio before realizing that South Pass City would be a much better spot because unlike where they were before, where it was like mostly residents, this was just a place where people continued to travel through. So, like if someone disappeared on their route, how would you know that they disappeared here?

Oh, right.

For sure.

Yeah.

So, they're like, "Oh my gosh, this is great. There's so many people for the

37:00

gold rush that's coming through. Let's move over there." And that is where they created this sort of like inn.

Damn.

And they were right to think so because they got away at first with poisoning 22 men,

Jeez.

killing them, robbing them, and pretty much everyone, from what it seemed like, looked the other way. Until they killed a man named Theodore Fountain, whose father happened to be a mine owner. And when Theodore vanished, his dad was like, "Oh my god, something happened to my son. I got to figure it out." So, he hired investigators to go find Theodore. And that led the investigators to Polly, the murderess.

I will say it's so impressive solving murders back in the day like that.

Yeah.

Like, there is no blueprint. There's no

No.

social media trail or like digital footprint or whatever that's left behind. Like, it truly, I feel like would take so much more effort. And also, you're trusting a lot of witnesses.

Yeah.

Which isn't always like, you know, something you can trust.

38:00

You know what it kind of reminds me of, and this is much more like a modern-day account and nothing to do with the Wild West, but similar types of, I think, behaviors when trying to investigate. The movie Wind River, did you ever watch that?

Uh it sounds familiar.

Uh it's a Jeremy Renner. He's trying to And I think Elizabeth Olsen's in it. Oh my gosh, it's been years since I watched it, but they're trying to investigate the disappearance and murder of an indigenous woman on a reservation.

Okay, so I haven't seen it, but I've seen like the I know of the movie.

Yeah, it is extremely upsetting.

Mhm.

And a good depiction of what happens

Damn.

to many people on the reservations. But it reminds me a little bit of like what I would view is happening in the Wild West where it's like you go and these people like don't have many resources and they're asking all these people who have other motives and reasons to lie. And cover things up. Damn. So it's like, God, how do you get to the truth? Okay, so Theodore goes missing. His dad

39:00

hires an investigator, leads him to Polly and her dad Jim. And then there are two brothers, Sam and Ed Ford, who were also supposedly, I guess, lured in by Polly. But Ed was like, "Nah, I'm not really interested in this." But Sam, his brother Sam, was like, "Whatever, I'll go back with Polly." Ended up becoming one of the victims. So Ed had a strong feeling that Polly had killed.

That's sloppy on Polly and her dad.

Totally. So when Ed found out that there was a bounty on Polly and Jim due to the investigators hired to to find Theodore.

Yeah.

He was like, "A bounty? I got you." He went, shot Jim dead. Then grabbed Polly and turned her into the authorities. That night,

Whoa.

Polly shot dead through a window while she's standing in her jail cell.

Her

Like it is That is the exact reason it was called the Wild Wild West.

Yeah.

Her killer was Auto Calcorst, a worker

40:00

for Theodore Fountain's father's mine. So Theodore went missing, investigator found Polly. Theodore's dad's employee goes and shoots

Vengeance.

Polly, Theodore's killer.

Damn.

Esther Morris, the first American female justice of the peace, did not charge Otto for the murder of Polly.

Those are two names, or actually three names, that I feel like no one uses anymore. Esther, Polly, and Otto.

Yeah. Bring them back.

I think Polly's so cute. I love Polly.

Are you sure you're not a girl?

You're asking your baby?

Hey.

[laughter]

It's not too late to change courses. You still have time to cook.

You do have some time to cook.

Suck it back in.

[laughter]

Suck it back in.

Why did they

Laney, they said that she was a boy.

Oh, interesting.

came out being a girl.

Huh. Well, it is very interesting because, and this is not the exact science, but basically the testes start

41:00

in utero like like the ovaries, and then they either stay like that as a girl.

Should I stay or should I go?

And sometimes they go and they they flop outside and they become the testes.

[laughter]

And that is science.

Oh, man. Oh, another thing that Litha Litha said

[laughter]

our resident

witch

witch which she didn't even know, but like my whole first pregnancy I constantly told you and other people that I thought I was having twins. And I like no matter how many times they're like that is a single child in your womb, I'm like I'm having twins. This pregnancy I've also been obsessed with the idea that I'm having twins. But like most people didn't know I was pregnant. So then when I was like Litha you figured out that I was pregnant

The wind told you.

She basically like responded and like kind of almost like gave me a reading where she was like there's a lot of twin energy with your pregnancy where like this child is going to be so much like Noah, they're going to be best friends, thickest thieves, and she kept saying like twins, twin energy. And I was like

42:00

is that why that pregnancy and this pregnancy I'm just like twin twin twin twin.

It's wild.

sense. Why am I obsessed with the idea that I'm like that scared the [ __ ] out of me and I like

Cuz Noah is also a Gemini, which is like the twin sign. So

we were like, oh, maybe it's that. But then for you to be pregnant like this again and have the same feeling and then for Alitha to be like, it's twin energy.

Mhm.

I don't know.

Saying something.

twins born a couple years apart.

[laughter]

Okay, so people say that the jail is certainly going to be a haunted place and that perhaps Polly is still haunting it.

Mhm.

It's hard cuz there's not many actual reports of like what people are truly experiencing. Like I think people like hear some stuff, see some shadows or whatever, but like the actual stories of hauntings are so limited here beyond people just being like, it's haunted or this the spirit is just walking through here maybe.

Well, and also if because this is like a park and it's not a place where people are currently living and spending time in, I feel like people aren't spending the nights there. People aren't sleeping there, living there. You're probably

43:00

going during the day where other people are there. You're not necessarily investigating the paranormal.

True. Yeah.

So, there's probably a lot that happens when those doors are closed to the public.

I'm so curious if there's any like security cameras set up anywhere.

I hope so.

So, many of the buildings, 23 to be exact, are still preserved on site. There are also over 30,000 artifacts that you can look at.

So

pan for gold in Willow Creek.

Love.

Apparently, you can go into the Smith-Sherlock store. I I think like some of the buildings are like operating for people who

Like tourists.

go visit, yeah. And you can order like drinks, you can get root beer,

[laughter]

things like that.

Ooh.

Um and you can take a tour of the Carissa mine. And yeah, people have seen things, feeling of being watched, strange energy here and there. But for the most part, it seems to feel all right and be all

44:00

right. And honestly, I was like, maybe a lot of the ghosts here abandoned the town as well and that what people are experiencing here and there might not be any spirits attached to this ghost town, which only really existed and operated for a few years. Like maybe it's just spirits passing through, and they happen to see them. Or spirits that come with the people to the area.

Or there's a whole goddamn ghost town, literal ghosts living in the town.

Yeah.

When living beings are not walking around.

Right. And now coming off of your episode from last week, I'm like, man, where are the EVPs from here? There's got to be some.

Can we rent out this town, do paranormal investigation for like a night?

I wouldn't be focused on the paranormal investigation. I would be in the creek trying to find some gold.

[laughter]

Where'd Karen go?

She's trying to strike it rich.

[laughter]

Just pebbles.

[laughter]

It's literally a rock. Mica.

45:00

Wait, oh my god, we have to talk about how the other day, cuz finally Saturn has moved and it like literally

your return.

I'm not in my Saturn return. It was impacting both my sun sign and my rising sign, Virgo and Pisces, for the last three plus years, and like finally it moved, and like all of the TikToks, all of the astrologers are saying like, if you're in these signs, like you're finally going to feel some relief. I was texting you about it, how excited I was. You sent me this text, and it's all about like how I should not get a motorbike, and how dangerous it would be. And I was like, what the hell? Because [laughter] one, I've never talked about motorbike.

One thing I know for certain, coming out of [laughter] your Saturn return, do not get a motorbike. I've never had a motorbike, but I hear that it will [ __ ] you up.

never talked about wanting a motorbike, but I'm going to warn you, don't get a motorbike. And what was the rock? The crystal or stone?

46:00

Oh my god, wait, well, can't moldavite. I was trying to tell you not to get moldavite.

[laughter]

Cuz I'm pretty sure moldavite is the one unless I'm misremembering. I think moldavite is is the one where like if you keep it on you, it gets rid of everything that doesn't serve you, but like in really aggressive ways. Like like it doesn't think one of your your your roommate is good for you anymore or something. So, instead of just finding a way to have you and your roommate like separate and like get in a fight or something, it'll set your house on fire so you have to move.

Oh, it's like burn the [ __ ] down type of situation.

shouldn't be with you, it's going to put you in a really bad car accident where you're in the hospital for a month and he doesn't visit and that's how you find out. Like it is like that's why I was trying to wait, do not get a motorbike. [laughter]

Cuz you were doing voice to text.

I was doing I was in the car. I was voice to texting you.

So, no motorbikes and no moldavite.

[laughter]

Anyhoo, my my last sentence. I said more than just a haunted location and more than a ghost town, South Pass

47:00

City, Wyoming stands as a living monument to the women who carved a path for the rest of us to now walk.

I love that.

Yeah.

And I love Esther.

I know Esther is badass.

And like the guy that's like you can't have my court documents even though this is your new job because you're a woman, she's like fine, lock him you up.

Put him in jail.

First bit of business in my new position, jail.

Ah, love her.

Oh, also,

What?

I didn't even write this. The the jail will will actually I'm not sure if the jail was in her home, but like her courthouse was in her home. Like she operated out of her home. So, she lived and also declared justice through her gavel down.

She's just like you.

[laughter]

Everything, you never have to leave your house.

Your our studio is in Karen's house.

[laughter]

Yeah.

Wow. I mean, that does make sense too cuz it's like they are like smaller towns and Right. Just kind of like set up shop. buildings. I feel like that was common where people would have their shops or businesses in their home their

48:00

like bedrooms in the back, whatever.

I think there's a stone potentially like a little boulder put on the site where her home was cuz it's not one of the buildings that's still preserved and standing, but I think that there is like a little monument there.

I love this. Thanks for sharing that story.

Yeah.

We have a impressive feat for women's voting. We have first woman holding office and we have a murder arrest of the slaughterhouse.

Strong women.

Strong women.

You know I once it's like I called my mom a feminist and she was so offended by it. And I had to have a whole conversation about her. I was like, I mean cuz it's like a political term and like people get mad at whatever. But I had to have a whole conversation with my mom and my mom I will say like she is unfortunately not the type of person who is receptive to other opinions. Like she is a very strongly opinionated woman and if you don't agree with her, you're just wrong.

Mhm.

So sometimes it's not worth fighting.

49:00

Yeah.

But when it came to the feminist thing, I was just so taken aback because I was like, how could you be offended by what I mean in the most complimentary way of like, you have shown me what it is to be a strong independent woman.

Yes.

And [snorts]

we view it as something lovely.

Like beautiful.

the world that she's operating in, it's probably used as like as an insult.

Right, like it's a negative thing.

Yeah, like

Which I was like so taken aback by. But then I explained to her what it meant to be a feminist and it's like the truly the only time I've ever had a political and I feel like it's barely a political conversation with her and she actually was receptive and now like calls herself a feminist.

Oh wow.

Yeah.

I need to have you sub in for me cuz I don't get through to anyone when I try.

About feminism or about politics? Because

Politics. It's hard. It's like how can you call it politics when some of these things are

When it's literally morality.

just so beyond that. Yeah.

It's not even yeah.

50:00

It's about ethics and morals.

gets me. Leaves me crying in red.

Oh, I literally showed up to your to our recording like two weeks ago and I was like, "I'm fuming."

[laughter]

It's so hard to not Oh my god.

Ugh. It's so frustrating.

is why we escape for moments in ghost stories

And ghost stories.

things like that.

And

And strong women who walked the path before we did and helped lay the path or the foundation is what I was trying to say. I have a story about

listener story

a strong woman. I cuz I couldn't find anything about South Pass specifically and then I was looking up ghost towns and I was like, "I want to I want to lean into the like strong women women's history month aspect." So, and that's what I did. Okay. Oh, and it has Wyoming. Here we go. Okay. So, this is from our listener K. It's called heartwarming stories of past loved ones. Hi friends, I have only been listening for a couple of months now, but you have

51:00

become my new favorite podcast and have gotten me through many hours of cleaning the kitchen and many many loads of laundry. So, thank you. Before I get into my stories, I wanted to tell you my husband had to go out to Boston this past summer for work. We're from Utah and I tagged along. I recently found out I'm a descendant of Rebecca Nurse. So, obviously

No way.

I had to make a trip to Salem. After Salem, we explored Marblehead because I heard Sabrina mention it and it was around dinner time, so we found a pub to eat at. The food and drinks were great. The atmosphere is fun. We even made friends with a couple of older ladies at the table next to us and on the drive back to Boston, I searched Marblehead on Two Girls One Ghost and found episode 282, Haunted Marblehead. We were shocked when Sabrina started talking about Maddie's cuz that was the exact place we had dinner.

[laughter]

Okay, onto my stories. This isn't necessarily my story, but I was there when it happened, and it's super heartwarming and paranormal. My great-grandparents owned a ranch in Star

52:00

Valley, Wyoming. They built a small farmhouse on it and raised their family. That is where my grandpa grew up. When my great-grandma died back in the early '90s, the house was left to my grandpa and has since been a fun place for all of his children, grandchildren, and now great-grandchildren to run away to during the summer. It's kind of like a family cabin. About a year after my great-grandpa passed, my grandpa wanted the whole family to spend Labor Day weekend there. I was about five at the time, and my cousins were around the same age, so once 8:00 p.m. hit, we were all ushered inside to go to sleep. That way the adults could go back out into the yard and hang out just themselves around the campfire. My sister and I were in upstairs room, and three of our cousins, all brothers, were in the basement. The basement was pretty chilly, so a space heater had been set up for the boys. About an hour or two later, one of my cousins, who was five at the time, woke up to someone shaking him. When he opened his eyes, our great-grandma was standing there telling him to grab the couch cushion to put out the fire.

53:00

He said he sat up, and sure enough, the space heater had caught fire, and the room was filling up with smoke. He did what he was told, smothered the small fire with the cushion, and when he turned to tell our great-grandma it was out, she wasn't in the room anymore. So he went upstairs to go look for her. My aunt had just come in to check on the kids and was surprised to see him up and asked what's going on. And he told her he was looking for Grandma K. My Grandma K was not alive. My aunt was a confused and had to explain that Grandma K is up in heaven. My cousin said, "Well, then how did she wake me up to put out the fire?"

Oh

my god.

Cuz he was five.

Yeah.

The couch has long been replaced, but the cushion is still there on display.

Oh, I love that.

Like honoring the memory. Yeah.

Yes.

Okay, so now

that she saved the family, all the

Truly. Yeah, it's an artifact. Never get rid of that.

54:00

Okay, so now for a couple of stories of my own. When I was in high school, my aunt unfortunately passed away in a car wreck. We were very, very close, so I had a very hard time with her passing. About a week or two after her funeral, I had a dream about her. In this dream, I was walking through a gorgeous garden with a stream running through it. I started following the stream, and at the end of it, next to a pond with a waterfall, sat my aunt planting some flowers. She looked up and asked me what was wrong. I started crying and told her how much I needed her. I was an angsty teen, and she was the only one I felt I could truly talk to who understood me. She smiled that beautiful smile of hers and told me to cheer up, and that she would send someone to take her place. I woke up. Later that day, we were having family dinner at my grandparents when one of my other aunts I just honestly I think about like Noemi and Delfina when I hear like stories like this. We're at dinner at my grandparents when one of my other aunts pulls me aside and told me about the dream she had the night before.

55:00

In her dream, she was following a stream through a beautiful garden, very similar to my dream, and there was my late aunt at the edge of the water gardening. Except in her dream, she told my aunt that I was struggling and asked her if she could take

[laughter]

and asked [snorts] her if she could take her place and be the support for me.

Oh.

So crazy.

Wow. My god.

Despite sending someone in her place, I have on many occasions felt my aunt who had passed away and her presence around me. I followed in her footsteps career-wise, and many times I will need help with something on my job, and I'll hear her voice clear as day in my head telling me what I need to do. Other days when I'm feeling down, I just hear her voice bringing me up or saying an inside joke we used to have and it will comfort me. Okay. One more story. Um, these would do are emotional, but okay. My husband's grandmother passed away right before I met my husband, so I never had the chance to meet her, but my husband was her favorite grandchild and they were super close. So, when we had

56:00

our first daughter, we named her after his grandma. When she was a toddler, she would occasionally get night terrors and wake up scream crying, except she wasn't fully awake and it was really hard to get her out of it. One night she was having another night terror, so I ran in. I tried to help her calm down. I tried to help her out of this night terror. I had just had another new baby, so I was so exhausted mentally and physically and watching my child freak out in her sleep sent me over the edge. I just held her and started bawling. That is when I felt a hand on my shoulder. I assumed it was my husband coming in to help calm down our daughter cuz he usually would. So, without looking up, I said, "I just can't handle this tonight. I feel horrible, but my mom heart can't take this." He didn't respond. So, finally I look up. No one was there. I then heard a voice in my head clear as day say, God, if I I'm like I know, this is this is really getting you. The emotional stories always do this,

57:00

but I have to try not to Okay. I then heard a voice in my head clear as day say, "You are such a good mom. Go back to sleep now. I've got her." Instantly, my daughter settled down and fell peacefully back to sleep. Oh my god.

[laughter]

I told my husband when I got back in bed and the exact time we both said his grandma's name and we both just knew it was her. My daughter has not had a single night terror to this day. This is also a wonderful reminder and proof that sometimes while the child looks like they're in distress and needing help, it's actually the parent who needs it more.

I know. Yeah. And that's from K.

Oh my god, beautiful.

Not only is K a badass woman and strong mom, but like she has so many spiritual women

Yes.

looking over her.

Like all of these stories are just Yeah.

Yeah.

Ancestors, loved ones, relatives.

It's beautiful.

58:00

Everyone coming through. Oh my god, so beautiful.

So sweet.

All there to comfort and to save. Save lives. So wild.

Tell the women in your life how amazing they are. Thank them for everything that they have done to provide for you to get to you this point in your life.

And yeah.

not to talk about

[laughter]

when you're eventually in the spirit world, but like I feel like this is all the women before K and K will also do this

Yeah.

great grandchildren and and other people who need her 100%. Women.

Love women. Love them so much. The best.

They're the best.

The only people I want in my life is cool, badass women. It's kind of all I have in my life.

I was going to say you have a you have a lot of them.

Yeah. So, more women's history month stuff coming, especially on Patreon. I'm so excited for that episode.

Ooh, I'm excited, too.

Eda Kracik and her sexual relationship with a ghost.

Yeah. That's a good one. I loved the one

59:00

that you did. It was like technically a nod to Black History Month, but it was so

Oh, yeah.

It was kind of a badass woman. Yeah.

Madam C.J. Walker. Yeah. That's I mean, that's like the amazing thing about Time Ghost Stories is it's not just ghost stories. A lot of times we're going back into history and learning these biographies of people who we've we've never heard of and otherwise never would have learned about or known. and I feel like I've become so inspired by the stories we've read.

This would actually be such a good like school lesson for if there are any like history teachers out there or like English teachers. I feel like you could do it in English classes, too. Around October, like you have your kids write ghost stories, but like they have to be real. So, like you have to find these cool stories or like, you know, go deep into the history.

love to do one day is teach a college course that is history through the lens of the

1:00:00

paranormal or something like that.

Or or you pick like the Victorian era as like told through a paranormal lens.

The Victorian That's a heavy one.

Right. It's a It's a two-semester-long course.

Yeah, that's a That's a senior capstone.

Yeah. Cuz I feel like in college there were a lot of twists on subjects.

Right.

Where it's not just like American history, it's with a different twist.

Yeah.

But like the paranormal's more interesting. We didn't have any paranormal classes at LMU.

No, they need one. I guess this is technically what our podcast is. We don't have to teach a college course. Like just listen to our podcast.

Or

or

get paid to teach the college course with the materials you've already created.

That's true. Re- repurpose. [laughter] And that

We reuse for you. Recycle.

Yeah, that's thinking smart, doing less work, getting more money.

Mhm.

Yeah. And we love money. So, join us on Patreon.

Join

[laughter]

Join us on Patreon. Uh

1:01:00

Like and subscribe on YouTube. Share with everyone.

But speaking of Patreon, just as a reminder, you get the ad-free one week early episodes if you're also an Apple Plus subscriber. So, if you want episodes ad-free and one week before you ordinarily get them, it doesn't change your schedule at all, you can subscribe on Apple. Or if you want that plus some extra bonus stuff a lot of extra bonus stuff.

the same price.

For the same price. Uh you can join Patreon.

You get bonus content, you get campfire stories, you get witch class book club, free sticker after 3 months of being a member.

Um our next book club book was just decided in the month of April.

March.

March we the 13th floor?

I can't remember episode 13.

[laughter]

Sabrina has to speak for me.

Okay, my excuse is that I'm pregnant.

March. Let me look at [laughter] the date. It's the middle of March. It actually

on it in February, so that's why I was getting confused by that.

I'm wondering.

it wasn't April?

I promise you. Okay, March 18th, which

1:02:00

might be right after this episode comes out, March 18th, Wednesday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. We will be discussing the book called Episode 13. I think it's by like Craig something.

Okay, so not the 13th floor.

It's by Craig Dilouie. Um and it's all about a ghost hunting reality TV It's a a fictional novel, but it's written kind of like non-fiction.

It's written like um

Like found footage.

Found footage. That was the term I was trying to

It's about a ghost hunting reality TV crew, Fade to Black. That That's literally their crew name. That investigates a notoriously haunted mansion, the Paranormal Research Foundation, for their season finale, Episode 13. So, come join us for that and all the other fun things on Patreon

Email us your ghost story?

Yes, please.

And we'll see you not even next week. We put out episodes two, three times a week, so we'll see you in three days.

and you can see you can see us basically every day if you're on Patreon.

1:03:00

Yeah.

I'm going to steal your final saying of thank you so much to the team behind the camera. We have Jamie Ryan who edits and produces. We have Emma Laventure. We have Sony. We have our agent manager, like there's so many people who are helping keep us alive and keeping us going and we're very grateful. So, thank you to them and thank you to all of you.

And be well.

See you on the other side.

Very spooky.