317. MUMMY MURDER MYSTERY | 5,300-Year-Old Mummy & The Curse of the Iceman | Paranormal Podcast

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It's a mummy and he comes with a curse. They are stunned to find a human being. This human is withered, twisted, lifeless. Traces of human blood were found on his clothing and his weapons. Four different individuals. This is the story of Otsi, the Iceman, the mummy lost to time. And he comes with a curse. Yeah. Yeah. Very spooky. Hello. Hey, welcome to Two Girls, One Ghost. Two Girls, One Ghost. And we are your ghostesses. That is Karen. Hello.

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And I'm Sabrina. And I'm in Mexico. Sabrina took recording on the road, so I was like, you know what? I want a change of scenery. Let's pretend I'm somewhere different. So, I'm in my bedroom. I will say I miss our studio. This doesn't feel studio vibes. No, it doesn't. I'm like, where do I look? I

podcast studio ghost

have a very quick ghost story for everyone. I did tell this on Campfire Stories, which we do on Patreon. It's a ghost story that's kind of open-ended, but at the same time, maybe concluded. I don't know. So, basically, Sabrina and I have been having a lot of activity in our podcast studio, specifically on the bookshelf. There's like been a lot of odd noises and we haven't quite figured out what is going on. Right. The other day, my child, my baby Noah, he wanted to go into the office cuz he likes to play with Sven. And he was like sitting in the middle of the room touching the iPad, having a great time. I was sitting literally right next to him. All of a sudden, he looks up at the bookshelf and freaks out like I've never seen him this scared. He was hysterical, like balling his eyes out. This was something I've never seen before. Haven't seen since.

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It was true terror. And it took him a really long time to calm down cuz I swooped him up and like took him out of the room, but he was making eye contact right behind where Sabrina's chair is, like at the bookshelf there. And my mom was with me at the time and and Noah was like almost hyperventilating. Like it took him a really long time for his breathing to calm down and everything went really You've never seen him that scared? I've never seen him that scared. And my mom was like, "Oh my god, there's something in the office. We need to cleanse." And I was like, "Okay, we can do it tomorrow. We can do it midday. We can open up the windows and like let all the stuff out of the house, too. Bad juju, go away." Yeah. So then I go to bed that night and I close my eyes and immediately I hear a man's voice go right next to me. Brian was downstairs, so I was the only one in my bedroom. And I opened my eyes cuz I was like, "Oh my god, did I already fall asleep?" And I'm having this weird dream. I look at my phone. It hadn't even been a minute. Like I literally closed my eyes and someone immediately went right next to me. So I just kind of like stared at the empty space like in an intimidating way like this isn't

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going to affect how I'm going to sleep. You're not affecting me at all. Like you're your own thing right now separate from me. And then my mom said that the light in her room dimmed all the way down and all the way back up. And it's on one of those like dimmer switches. And so then the next day came and we didn't cleanse. Instead, I decided to leave it at a light threat. I didn't even go in the office. I stood at the threshold of the doorway and I said, "If you scared the baby again, you're on borrowed time." And that was it. I haven't experienced another thing. Noah's been fine. He's been in there every day. Well, I really hope that works. And that's a note to everyone. Set intentions and make sure you if you are experiencing anything haunting like this, you can try the stern talking too, gentle parenting to spirits. Well, cuz also I was thinking like, what if there's someone in here that didn't intend to be scary? They just popped up and it was a startling thing and maybe they looked a certain way and it was really scary to Noah. It reminds me of

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that story we read. It was a woman from New Jersey who gave cookies to Brian's mom and Oh, yeah. her daughter saw like this like really creepy entity, but it was like a firefighter who had died in a fire and so he looked so scary, but he was actually a really good spirit. Yeah. So, we don't know if this is just a friendly ghost that accidentally did a little spooking, which is why I gave them an option. Like, I didn't say get out. I just said here's the boundary. It's a continuous ghost story. We'll see and we'll update all of you what

the iceman is discovered

happens. Yes, we will. But for the episode today, it's not really a ghost story, but it is something weird and mysterious, and I'm excited. I'm also very excited for my listener story for this. Ooh. Okay. Now, I am too. I don't even know. Well, I know generally probably what it's about, but everyone get cozy cuz we're going to put ourselves in someone's shoes or we're going to hear about someone's treacherous journey. Writer Karen coming in. The cold sears Utsie's lungs, but he

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forces himself forward. Each step a battle, each breath a ragged reminder that he cannot stop. Utie hadn't meant to be here, but the mountains are now his only escape. The frozen air amplifies every sound. His breath sharp and uneven. The crunch of the snow beneath his feet. every step betraying him, echoing into the silence of the frozen landscape, revealing his path to those who hunt him. Blood drips from his hands, his own or someone else's. His limbs scream in protest, but he pushes onward higher into the snowladen peaks. If he can just reach the ridge, if he can just disappear into the endless white. But his body then falters. His legs buckle. He stumbles forward, fingers clawing at the ice, desperate to keep going. And then darkness, a sudden shadow against the glinting snow beneath him. The shadow looms over him, and Otie turns, eyes squinting against the glare

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of the sun, reflecting off something cold, something sharp, metal, a blade. There's no time to react. He closes his eyes, surrendering to the mountain, to the ice that will then cradle him in its frozen embrace for the next 5,300 years. This is the story of Otsi, the Iceman, the mummy lost to time, only to be found deep within the Alps very recently, which was a discovery with a chilling mystery. And his unearthing came at a cost, or a curse, they say. This is like finding woolly mammoths in like sheets of ice. Yes. Except now it's a mummy and he comes with a curse. The mammoths aren't cursing us. Oh my gosh. But Otie is. Oh wow. And I hope I'm saying his name right because I did watch a lot of videos of Italians saying his name. I know it's not and it's not. It's So this is the curse of the iceman. September 19th, 1991. A pair of German

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hikers. It was a couple, Helmet and Erica Simon. They were trekking through the Otal Alps, which is how Ozie got his name. And they were right along the Austrian Italian border. And the summer that they were hiking had been unusually warm. So, there was a lot of glacier ice that was melting and, you know, exposing more of the earth than usual. And this was the perfect setting to unear a over 5,000-year-old mummy. Did they just stumble upon it? So, Helmet and Erica Hel, sorry, so many names I'm going to butcher here. They are making their way through the rugged terrain. They are 10,530 ft or 3210 m above sea level when something catches their eye. There is this dark withered form protruding from the ice and it's barely distinguishable against the rocks. And so they're like, is this some sort of like rock formation? Is this some sort of debris that's kind of unearthing? And so they approach it because they're curious. It

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does look different against the landscape that's here. And as they approach, they are stunned to find a human being. This human is withered, twisted, lifeless. Their skin is this like leathery brown. They appear to be in a crawling position as if they just perished while attempting to crawl to safety. And so they are thinking, okay, this person, there's family members out here from maybe a few decades ago looking for this person who they think is a mountaineer that perished at some point in more recent past while hiking. So that is their thought. They think that they're about to solve a missing person's case. Is this the picture of when they found it? Yes. So, if you're watching on YouTube, there's going to be some I don't know if we call mummy photos graphic or not, but it is kind of graphic because it's a twisted leathery human body, like dead. Yeah. So, there's a mummy in the traditional sense. It's almost like mummified in the sense that

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it was preserved by the cold. Exactly. It's kind of like a bog body almost like it's not what you're Although it kind of is like if you think about all of the tombs that they open like the Egyptian tombs and stuff it does look similar but if you're thinking mummy in the sense of like toilet paper wrapped around them it's not looking like that but they like specifically wrap the bodies in like and have a procedure of death for mummified bodies where it's like and they'll do painting the skin has not decayed. No, this is like a you see the corpse, you

ice mummy autopsy

see all of all of gez. So they assume that this is a lost mountaineer and so they contact authorities. Authorities come up and along with them some archaeologists. I don't know who came first or if they came together but all parties arrive and the truth was far more astonishing. This was not someone who a few decades ago lost their lives to the cold weather when trying to truck up the Alps. This was a very

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wellpreserved corpse of a man who died over 5,000 years ago. That's crazy. Nicknamed Utsie after the valley that he was found, the Iceman quickly became one of the most significant archaeological finds of all time. His body, his clothing, his tools, all of this was found right here with him. And this offered an unprecedented glimpse into the copper age. So he lived sometimes. Does it make you want to be an archaeologist? Yes. I guess it's like I want to be an archaeologist if I got to control where I was an archaeologist because also when I think of archaeology I think of all of the photos of people that are like in the Middle East and like really hot desertest landscapes and they're like sweating and sand is blowing on them and they're like going through the dinosaur bones and I don't think I would enjoy that too hot. See, I would want to do any of it. I want to find like old pottery. I want to find dinosaur bones. Like I want to be an archaeologist. I want to find a hidden city. I want to find a city beneath a city. Find

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Atlantis. Yeah, I want to find Atlantis. But I also don't like being in deep water. I don't like being underneath the water more than 2 ft. So Atlantis needs to rise up and just find me. You're never going to be an archaeologist. No, I'm not. I like where I live. I'll be an archaeologist in the north shore of Massachusetts. Okay, but these people are uh excited because this is a very interesting find. So, this body they believe lived sometime between year 3,350 and 3,15 BC. I like can't stop looking at these photos. I know they're wild. If you're on YouTube or we'll we'll also post on Instagram. But, yeah, it's the photos are crazy and it's so well documented, too, because there was so much around him that was found and so they have photos of the tools, photos of all these different things. There's I didn't put it include this, but you can find like photos of basically their autopsy where they're pulling back his stomach and looking at the contents

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inside of his stomach. It's pretty gruesome. That's wild. Yeah. Okay. So, Otie lived back in the 3000 BCs and he stood about 5'3. He was thought to be 45 years old, which was a really good like long age for that time. And he was estimated to be about 110 lbs when he was alive. though his remains now are like 20some pounds. Oh my gosh, what a little guy. Also, like when you look at the photos of the archaeologists above him, he looks so small. I'm like, were people's skulls significantly smaller back then? Like I feel like he just looks he almost looks like a child. Interesting. Like if I were to die and wither away, my head would be twice the size of Volt right now. They'd be like, "Oh my gosh, the Bratz doll came to life and died." That's me. Okay. But I do I mean that's a question because even when you look at the Salem witch house in Salem, the beds are so much smaller. The ceilings are so much lower. Like people were smaller, right? They had to be. I

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don't know. Or maybe we're just like used to different comforts or like have different expectations. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not really sure. But yeah, this this was a small man, but apparently he lived a pretty decently long life for the time. And based on clumps of hair that remained around his body, they believed he had dark, medium, long hair, though not much of it. He would wear his hair loosely at the time. So I don't know if that meant that at the specific time period that most likely there was no like braiding or sort of like styling of hair or if just based on how his hair was found, he was letting his locks fly. He had traces of arsenic in his hair, too, which I was like, he was poisoned. But no, that's not that's not what happened. Apparently this is what happens when someone is around like the smelting process of metal. So like extracting metal basically at this time it was like a bit of a primitive version of it. Well primitiveish because during this time it was the middle of the copper age and techniques for metal extraction and

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processing were being developed. So he was spending a lot of time around this process which is super interesting. Could that be why he was in the mountains? No. because they believe that he actually lived up there. That there was like a very small community that was up there. It was very remote, but they didn't think he was necessarily like a solo up there. Like he was he was far from home but not probably too far. They think he was probably on a hunting trip when he died. Interesting. So his fingernails and his toenails had fallen off and one fingernail and two toenails were retrieved around his body, which is again so crazy that this is still preserved. It was stated that Bose lines were observed on his fingernails. So, I think that's when like it goes across when you have a lot of damage to your nail beds because they said that this indicates great physical stress, which makes sense for the time period. And it's also impressive because he had to endure a lot physically, but he still lived to the age of 45 until his murder.

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So, it's like if he wasn't murdered, how much longer would he live? also like living up in the mountains like that. Yeah. You would be put through physical challenges all the time. Yes. And it's also so crazy. Again, I didn't add this photo, but people can look it up because there's so many photos of him and recreations of him and like depictions of what he would have looked like at the time. But his outfit and stuff, I just like can't believe the people lived in that sort of climate, right? I mean, I guess, you know, they were hunting and they were wearing like cow and and different like animal skins and stuff, but he had to wear all these like different layers and then had this almost like parka. It's just so interesting for me because I think when we look at pictures of people who live during this time period, it does seem so like caveman style to me. They had to use like natural resources for warmth and like going back to us being used to like comforts. They did not have any of

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that. I don't know. I would just think like move somewhere warmer, walk somewhere warmer. If only it were that easy. I mean, some people did. That's that's how I'm so Neanderthal. You know, my Neanderthal ancestors, they made their way around eventually landing in Portugal and then now you have me. Okay. They also did a lot of research into Ozie's DNA and tested a bunch and they found Lyme disease in his DNA. So, this is the oldest evidence of Lyme disease. I'm not surprised by that either because he is literally living like this in the wilderness. That doesn't surprise me. He was bit by a tick at one point and has Lyme disease, right? But I guess like in my mind, I thought Lyme disease was something that was that just like was developed in more recent past because of the prevalence of it that I'm like, "Oh, when was Lyme disease like has this just been a thing? Did it just like come up like 200 years ago or something or even 50 years ago?" But no, it's been around

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for thousands and thousands of years. That makes sense. Was genetically predisposed to cardiovascular disease and was likely lactose intolerant. Shut up. So crazy that we can be like, "Oh my gosh, look. This 3000 BC ice mummy couldn't eat cheese or he would himself thanks to DNA. He probably still ate the cheese." Oh, I'm sure he had no idea what was going on. Had some bad IBS. Actually, he had a lot of ideas of what was going on, which we'll go into. Okay. So Oz was physically fit, but his joints showed significant wear, likely from a lifetime of being in this kind of like harsh terrain up in the Alps traversing the mountainscape. And you know, it's just a hard way of living. His arteries were heavily calcified, which was a sign of cardiovascular strain that might have been causing him discomfort. Deep within his gut, there were parasitic worms that likely left him with this like chronic stomach ache. Also, maybe he was eating

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cheese. It's also so interesting because when you look at these pictures of his body being discovered, like it doesn't look like his organs still are in there, but the fact traces. Yeah. No, I mean, they opened up his stomach. Like, they could see. It's so crazy. It's so crazy. Gallstones also hinted at some ongoing digestive troubles. So, poor Utie, he always had a tummy ache. Basically, what what was going on? He needs a sweatshirt that says, "My stomach hurts, but I'm being really brave about it. being really brave about it. Yeah. If only we could have given ootsie some pepsid back then or lactade and gasex pepto-bismol which I had yesterday because I got the Mexico illness. That sucks. I'm sorry, Sabrina. You and Osie would have a lot to talk about. His teeth were worn down to a very severe degree. So, he had a lot of decay. And this is just like another reminder of kind of like the the diet and whatnot that they had to consume and how hard it was. Dental care. Yes. And

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on his left little toe, there were remnants of an old frostbite injury,

tattoos

which makes sense cuz he was living in this up in the Alps. Like it's freezing up there a lot of the year. They also found on Otie's body 61 tattoos, which is so cool. So, there were these simple lines and crosses etched into his ancient leathery skin, and you can see on YouTube some pictures of these. These are so cool, right? Two of them are small cross- shaped markings, and they were found on his right knee and his left heel. And unlike modern tattoos, which are made with needles, his were created with making like fine incisions with a bone needle or a flint blade. And the cuts were then rubbed with pulverized charcoal. So you'd like create a wound and then rub charcoal or soot over it until it would like absorb in and basically when the skin would reheal, it would like lock in the debris. That sounds so painful. Totally. All but one of his tattoos were composed

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of soot, but one of them, the lone exception, was found on his right leg and it contained traces of this like different ash, which is interesting. And the anomaly led scientists to speculate that maybe this was created at a different time or like maybe he had like traveled and somehow got the tattoo somewhere else and there was like a different practice or that this was a ritualistic tattoo that there was like some unique ritual that they did things a little different and that that tattoo basically the answer is they don't know but there's one tattoo that's different and they're like oh my god why. Well, it's also just so fascinating with all of this, like even the frostbite on one of his toes. It's like how do they differentiate what is something that he experienced right before his death like versus Yeah. something that was from the past. That's scientifically that stuff is so cool. Archaeology is super cool. But I guess I'm curious about the crossover of like forensic like science and archaeology. Do

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archaeologists have some of that knowledge or is like a forensics person brought in? I don't know. I feel like they probably bring in a forensics person, but there's probably a basic knowledge. Yeah, because they had to do the DNA and everything. And if you've done enough schooling to become an archaeologist, like I believe that you've probably been educated to some extent in forensics. Very, very interesting. In high school, there was a science forensics class, and I still to this day regret not taking it. Oh my gosh. Yeah, you should have. Forensic psychology was my favorite class I've ever took in college. Despite extensive research, the purpose of these tattoos remain a mystery, but they were placed in certain parts of his body that would have been covered by clothing. So it kind of ruled out the idea that this was for some sort of like social status or as decoration or whatever. And so this led to a theory

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that maybe these tattoos served the medical purpose. So basically like was he a medicine man or like were there some sort of like medicine practices where almost like acupuncture where they like would put these markings on certain parts of a body. and he also lived a very long life for the time and had a lot of ailments. So, it would make sense that he would have so many all around his body for like whatever seemed to be hurting. Many of the tattoos align with key acupuncture points still used today. In fact, 80% of them correspond to locations used to treat rheumatic ailments, a condition that I likely suffered from, and also X-ray analysis of his remains revealed significant arthritis in his lower back, his hip joints, his knees, and ankles. And these were in the exact same places that tattoos were applied. Oh, they think either, you know, like could this be pain management? Could this be a like early form of acupuncture? Like what was this? Doesn't that make you want to do acupuncture for yourself? Cuz it's like

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this has been around for so long and has like roots back to ancient practice that like I'm like there's got to be something to it. Well, and also it's just like one of those things too where it's like you think of acupuncture so much when it comes to Eastern medicine, but like here we are in Italy and there was some I mean there's a theory. We don't know that that's what they were using it for, but like there's a theory that this was some version of that. So it's also really interesting that just like humans in general, even being separated by miles and miles and miles, never meeting each other, still will have these common experiences generally in the same time period or that we'll just discover the same things no matter what. like without the exposure. Like that's crazy to me. And that's some sort of like universal consciousness that everyone's suddenly being like, "What if we do this to try to help with the pain?" Like never in my mind would I be like, "Let me stab myself to try to make my pain better." But yeah, it works. Also, the tattoos deep pigmentation suggests that they were reapplied multiple times. And this also like just

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reinforced the idea that this was an ongoing treatment, not just like a one-time tattoo or like a single ritual that these were revisited areas. So again, like going back to the acupuncture, it would make sense once a month, you know, he's knee gets redone or whatever. Some of them that were along his lumbar spine, it would have been impossible for him to reach and be able to do it to himself, meaning another person did perform that procedure. So again, this is like he might have not done any of them. Like this could have been part of a healing process. And even more intriguing was researchers have identified tattoos along his back and right leg positioned over meridian points associated with the gallbladder, the spleen, the liver, and the stomach, which are key areas in modern acupuncture that are targeted to treat abdominal disorders. And we already know he had a perpetual stomach ache. Okay. Well, to see this is so interesting cuz if his community lived up in the mountains like this in the Alps, is it possible to find the bodies

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of others? And since it is so cold, would they be preserved in the same way? And you could see like right now I'm want to like go find these bodies everywhere. That is one of the things. It's kind of like bog bodies where it's like was it the perfect storm in this exact area which where he was and where he passed they think at the time there wasn't much snow or ice and like he was somewhat protected from the wind and it was just like it seemed like exactly where he perished was the perfect spot for him to be preserved and then eventually like encapsulated. But when you think of Everest, all the bodies that are still up there, like who's to say that there are a ton of them up there? So despite all of these very compelling findings, they don't really know what the tattoos were used for. And there's also from what they have available to them outside of there's no evidence of tattooing in the Alpine region from this time period. So they're like, was he just an anomaly? Was he some sort of like medicine practitioner, some sort of shaman who was testing things on himself or is this just like a

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common thing and somehow they just never discovered it? This is why it's so significant as an archaeological find because not only does it tell you a lot about this time period, but it also tells you that you don't know much about this time period. Like it leaves so many

ancient murder mystery

questions, right? Cuz this is probably the most preserved body they've found from that time period. So, it does tell you a lot more. Also, they found on his body, not only were there all of these physical ailments and injuries and tattoos, but they found a fresh, well, fresh at the time of his demise, deep wound on his right hand. It was a gash that had only been a few days old at the time that he died. So people wondered if this was a desperate struggle that he was a part of. Um if there was this like last attempt to fend off an attacker and then he was like fleeing in the mountains trying to escape someone who was trying to kill him. But whatever the cause was, the injury likely hampered

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him, leaving him vulnerable in his final moments. Well, I'm also curious if he was out hunting. Like did he accidentally hurt himself while he was trying to like Okay. Well, kill an animal or something. He died by arrow. Like someone shot him with an arrow. Oh, someone killed him. But yes, he was murdered. This is a murder mystery. Oh There's a theory by one of the researchers who worked on Utsie's body. There's been so many different theories. Like some people were like, "Oh my god, was he being hunted and escaped or like trying to escape people that were after him?" Other people were like, "Was he a mass murderer? like did he kill a bunch of people or kill someone and then tried to like flee into the mountains and then was hunted down? And then there is one theory that he was with someone else like he was hunting with a companion and there was some sort of like territorial dispute or like argument when they got in uh contact I guess with like two other hunters or like another group of people and that this resulted in being like killed by arrow. His equipment was

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preserved around his corpse, too. And this was really interesting because this was the first time that archaeologists were able to see like what a typical thing to have on hand during the day was because all of the burial sites did not include these items. There were different like rituals and practices and what you would bury a person with was not what they would ordinarily carry. That would be like, you know, like when we get put in a casket, we're not given a cell phone and our like favorite book and like a satchel of tea to like indicate what we're doing during the day. I like the cell phone is the first thing you said. Well, cuz everyone has one, right? It's like that's like an everyday tool that we use, but like we're not buried with our cell phones. So, this was really really monumental. He died with a bead of rawhide strings, two dried out mushrooms on leather straps, finely stitched clothing made from animal skins, straw lined leather shoes, an impermeable cloak made of

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woven grass, a bare skin cap, a pouch with dried deer meat and prine. So like basically he had snacks satchel of snacks with him. A finely worked birch bark pouch, a wooden bow, a leather quiver with a number of arrows, and some of them were unfinished, so it was like he was making arrows on the go. A flint bladed knife and a woodandled copper bladed axe. And Otie was also wearing leather and fur garments from domesticated animals. So these were goats and sheep and cow. And also ancestrally and DNA wise and like location-wise, it was believed that Utsu was from kind of like a farming community too, which is interesting cuz he was high up in the Alps. Like I said, he died by arrow. And this revelation didn't come until 2001 when a team of scientists conducted an X-ray scan of Os's remains, and they found an arrow head lodged deep in his left shoulder. And the analysis showed that the wound

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in his hand was probably from a fight shortly before this arrow wound which resulted in his death. And he also had a lot of bruises and head trauma suggesting a violent end like a like a full out brawl. Like he was beat to death and then killed with an arrow basically and then basically left there. Yes. Yeah. So this is I mean there's theories but like this also is sort of a 5,300year-old murder mystery, right? I mean, we don't even know his actual name, so let alone who murdered him, right? So, who killed him and why? That's a question that still remains. But one of the things that they looked at for clues was the contents of Ot's stomach. Like, what was he doing? How long was he out there for? And it was just so incredible because the stomach contents were preserved and they could study them. And there were choices of Ibeck's meat and Iicorn wheat indicated he had eaten a hearty meal shortly before. So, this is I think another thing that added to the theory that like he was out on a hunting trip because he was it wasn't like he was on the run for

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a while. Like he he like prepared to be out for a bit. Yeah. Some believe that he was fleeing from attackers and that he paused to nourish himself with this hearty meal, but I don't know how accessible that was. But another thing that was so interesting, and I didn't write this down, so I might butcher some of the details, but there was also a lot of evidence in his stomach contents of different like plants and whatnot, that again, just like the tattoos go back to herbal medicine and sort of like the things that it can do to help treat you. So he ate things to help with his stomach aches, literally. Yeah. Yeah, there were like all these things that like wouldn't necessarily be for nourishment in the way that we would think of like filling his tank to give him energy, but like rather kind of like nutrients and vitamins and different things to like treat Yeah. his ailments. So, it is so God, why are so many things lost to time? I'm pissed. But they're not. It's just that we've stopped using them in the same way. Adding to the mystery, the murder mystery. Traces of

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human blood were found on his clothing and his weapons. Four different individuals. Oh, so this is why it's like, was there a fullout brawl? Was he attacking someone or like a group of people? And then like basically, how did so much blood so many different people's

a curse!

blood get on him? And it makes sense that it would be like some sort of brawl and then he was killed. It sounds like he put up a fight trying to survive, but like he was outnumbered. Yeah. So basically there's this whole mystery and the idea of a curse began to rise with the tragic fate of those connected with Usie's discovery. So the curse first struck in 1992. Rainer Hen, the forensic pathologist who had handled Otie's remains with his bare hands during transport, was the very first victim. Less than a year after his examination of the mummy, Hen was killed in a sudden car accident while in route to a conference to discuss this is like the

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amethyst. Yes. Or the Hope Diamond or the the stolen amethyst. The stolen amethyst. There's so many curses like last year out there. Yeah. And then Kurt Fritz was next. He was an experienced mountaineer and he had led scientists to the excavation site when they first discovered Utsie. And then in 1993, Fritz was caught in an avalanche and killed. But strangely, the avalanche only hit him out of all the climbers. So, it like missed everybody, but took him and he perished. Damn. Some say his final words before the snow engulfed him were about feeling a sudden chill, this unnatural cold even amongst the setting that they were already in, which is very death was near him. Yeah. Next was helmet Simon. And this man first discovered Otsi with his wife when they thought it was just a like lost mountaineer. That feels so unfair, right? They stumbled upon him. And it's so unfair because like what they were suspicious of with Usie's death is

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basically what happened to him. So in 2004, he went missing while he was hiking in the very same mountains that he found the Iceman. His body was discovered eight days later, buried in snow. And to add to the eerie details, just hours after Simon's funeral, the head of the search team that had discovered Helmet Simon's body, Dieter Warki, died of a sudden heart attack. It's like this weird trickle effect. Was his wife okay? I think so. There was nothing about his wife. Interesting. So, it's like all men that are dying. Yeah. It's another weird thing too because it's like it feels like there's a curse because there's so much or like so many deaths but at the same time Otsi is such a huge discovery that there is a lot that's like okay well out of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people that have sure been exposed to him like eight people die like is it a curse or is that just normal and also a lot of these people do spend their lives like in the wilderness doing riskier

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things right their chances of death are higher that's true then Australian journalist ist Rainor Holtzel, who had filmed Osie's removal from the mountain, died of a brain tumor not long after finishing the film about Osie. And then in 2005, shortly after his death, The Independent reported that very recently, like before his death, he was asked about the curse, and he said, quote, "I think it's a load of rubbish. It's all media hype. The next thing you'll be saying is, I will be next." And then he died. And then he literally died. The seventh person to die was Tom Ly, the molecular archaeologist who was diagnosed with a bloodrelated condition shortly after becoming involved with studying the Iceman Utsie. And he was the one that discovered the human blood on Usie's clothing and weapons, which is interesting that he then got like a blood condition when he discovered the blood related stuff on Utie. His work is one that debunked some of the theories that I had died alone in the mountains because it did seem based on how much

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blood was on everything that he was in this sort of fight. And there's a theory that Otie had a hunting companion with him and that he basically died like next hunting companion, but that his hunting companion was alive and obviously like escaped, right? Tom passed away 12 years later in his home. So, it's like was he part of the curse? Was he not? And also like we all are going to die. And unfortunately a lot of people don't get to die like this peaceful at home old age death. Like people die from other things all the time, right? And I think we like to look for patterns. But you're right, Karen. Like if there's hundreds of people involved with this and only like 12 died seemingly in weird ways, like that feels pretty normal. Yeah, it does. I think the reason that it came up as like a curse was because the people who had like significant roles in Utie all died of like weird not all but like many of them had sudden deaths. So it's not just like oh the intern on the

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research team or whatever. It was the person who discovered the blood, the person who was taking the photos, the person who like found the body. Like it was very significant roles in the extraction and examination of his body and like the working theories about Otsu today. But again, yes, everybody dies. Yeah. Some believe that the curse started when Otu's body was removed from his icy resting place. Some people spoke about this like heaviness and feeling like this oppressive energy around the

iceman today

site that he was found. Whether that was true of the time or if that was added detail later to add to the like story of the curse, I'm not sure. But today, there is a large stone pyramid placed at the discovery site of Utsie. And in 2011, two Dutch artists, Alphins and Adri Kenneth, used CT images and forensic techniques and methods to reconstruct his body. And so if you're watching on YouTube, you can see what he might have looked like in the time that he was alive. Although, I'll make one

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edit to this reconstruction. More recently, they believe that he had significantly less hair on his head than this would indicate. I was going to say he seemed very hairy up there. Yeah. No, he was giving more like Cynthia from Rugrats, like Angelica's doll instead of luscious locks. He looks like he could have been related to William Defoe. You're so right. doesn't he? Yeah, that's hilarious. Okay, today you can actually see the Icemanie is forever sleeping in a big old refrigerator. He's stored in a specifically devised cold cell. It's chilled to the glacial temperature as -6.5° or 20.3° F with 99% humidity. And you can see him through a small window in the South Tyrell Museum of Archaeology and Bolzano Saj Bzen. And that's the curse of the

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Icemani. I mean, that's so fascinating. I don't really believe in the curse. Curses are hard cuz it's like it would be one thing if like the people who found him were like related to the people who killed him or something, you know, but Right. What does Usie have to gain from cursing people? The only thing I can think of is like if his body like released a toxin and coming into contact with it, but they would have found all that in the forensics, right? And everyone died in different ways. It was like a heart attack or just missing in the Alps or a blood disease. Like it was all just very unrelated ways to die, right? But no, I guess like the only thing I could think of is like if Otie died in this really intense battle with these strange men who he's never encountered before, could there be some sort of like energy? Obviously, if someone from the copper age were to see someone from today, it would be a really scary person to encounter, right? We look so different. We act so different. We have so many different tools. So, I'm

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like, could his spirit be kind of confused and think that he's again in battle with the people that are touching him? I don't know. I don't know. I think that's the coolest discovery and I for sure would love to be an archaeologist. Yeah. So cool. I do wonder too if you're an archaeologist like what's your access to things like that? Like can anyone pitch to go study or like right do you have to get like per the forbidden fruit of the archaeology community that

listener story: museum hauntings

everyone wants a piece of I don't know there's probably archaeologists who each have like their own passion. If you're an archaeologist email us let's talk. Take us on your next dig. I have a listener story and this is the only listener story I can find in our inbox about mummies. Wow. And I cannot wait for it. So, actually, so our listener Cass, if you remember, remember we did our New York show and there was someone a listener outside who like asked to take a picture with us. Yeah, that was when we were loading up my car after the

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show. Okay. Yes, exactly. So, in the email it said there was like a tease of a story about a mummy and I was like, "You have to email this to us." And she did. She delivered. So, we just got it into our inbox yesterday. That is really good timing and also crazy that we asked for it 2 years ago and it just arrived. No, I asked for it two days ago. Oh. Oh, okay. Yeah. I was like, "Wait, that's also spooky, but okay, got it." Okay, ghouls, you asked for it. First of all, I'm obsessed with you both and absolutely metaphorically pooped my pants when you asked for the story. It's a long one and probably not what you're expecting, so let's get into it. I used to work at a certain museum that I won't mention by name because it's my only job I ever got fired from and they do not deserve my publicity. That being said, it was haunted. This museum was one of many mansions owned by a very famous family in America. All I'll say is that a couple of months ago, Karen spoke on the podcast about visiting another mansion owned by the same family. I feel like we

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have clues. We could figure this out. Mhm. I live on Long Island, New York. So, if that doesn't give it away, I don't know what else will. Is it the Vanderbilt? She literally then says it's the Vander Vanderbilt Museum. Yeah. The original owner was a collector of sorts. He had lots of weird that he collected on his many travels and brought them back to this beautiful mansion now museum. I started working there because I got involved with the summer Shakespeare Theater. I was the box office and house manager and eventually was hired to do admissions and retail for the museum year round. The museum isn't just a mansion. It's an entire property with the mansion being right in the middle. It includes other buildings and multiple different wings of the mansion, all dedicated to specific collections. There's also the grounds of this property that was pretty huge and a celebration tent where they hosted weddings and other fancy events. There's a pool house area which sits right at the water and another larger building at the top of the hill by the road that holds all the weird taxiderermy sea creatures. What? Pretty big property. Lots of spooky dark corners. That's cool. There's one building on the property, specifically the building that I spent

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most of my time in that is shaped like a big circle. Outside of this building is a garden that overlooks a big cliff that goes down straight to the water. It's a beautiful view. When you walk into this building, there's a theater of sorts in the center. So, picture a large enclosed round theater in the middle and a round lobby area just outside. And in the back were some offices and storage rooms. My office was back and one time I had five Easter chocolates that I left on my desk and I came back the next day to see only one. Nothing else had changed in the room. The door was locked behind me. So, I guess the ghost ate four and left one for me. When you're inside this building, in the center of the lobby was the admissions desk. I sat here all the dang time. From the spot, my view is somewhat skewed since, again, this building was round. I have experiences, and I know my co-workers did too, of hearing someone from the left side of the lobby and then seeing them walk out from the right side. And I know this might be tough to envision, but when you're in a round room, sound bounces around weird and would constantly see and hear things

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around the corners that would leave us confused about where it came from. A co-orker of mine, who we'll call Jay, used to work night shifts often. And when he would leave the building at night, he recalls walking up the hill towards the parking lot, turning around to see a man in a top hat looking over the ledge down to the water. For some reason, Jay kept walking and didn't think twice about it, but he laughed while telling me this. That is creepy. just a very creepy man staring down to the water. A friend of mine, Nicole, used to work a lot of special events at the museum and she would escort guests around the grounds. Once she was sitting in the wing of the lobby when she heard someone whisper, "Hi, Nicole." in her ear. She says, "They seemed pretty friendly, TBH." and wasn't scared, but she was completely alone at the time. Months later, I was working on the set of an Amazon Prime TV show that had rented the mansion for filming. I was lucky enough to be one of the few staff members that was permitted on the property that day. And while on set, I got to talk to a lot of cool people. And I spent a lot of that time running through the secret underground storage tunnels that ran under the mansion in

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order to stay out of the way. Those tunnels were creepy, especially when the lights were off. But I had gotten very familiar with them, and while filming, they became very convenient for running from one side of the mansion to the other without getting in the way. Unfortunately for you, but fortunately for me, nothing creepy ever happened in those tunnels. But something did happen while filming. I found myself in a side room that wasn't being used at the time and there were a few crew members in the room and the paramedic that was hired to be on set. We got to talking and obviously the conversation led to the mansion being haunted. The paramedic scoffed jokingly and made it very clear that he did not believe in any of that stuff. Hours later though, while standing in the courtyard, I saw this paramedic sprint towards me. He was looking for me just to tell me that he was alone in the wing and someone whispered hello in his ear. He, unlike Nicole, was freaked out. I feel like there's a lot of friendly ghosts in this, right? But I also love that the paramedic was like, "I do not believe." And the ghosts were like, "We're going to make you believe." Hello. My final spooky story is the one you've been anticipating, the mummy. Here's what happened. One night

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during the summer, we had a Shakespeare performance. I was stage managing this particular production, which meant that I was placed in, you guessed it, the same wing where Nicole and the paramedic made a ghost friend. In this wing, there was a break room for the staff of the museum. And this is where I sat during the show. There was a large window that opened up right next to the stage, so I was able to see and hear the actors, but I was hidden from the audience. I had a clear view from where I sat of the hallway, bathroom, and the main and only entrance to that entire wing. I could clearly see at all times if any actors had entered that wing. And guess what particular creepy collector's item was in the room right next to me? Yeah, it was a mummy. Before the show had even started, the security staff at the museum had come down to the mansion to lock any doors to any rooms with collections. Having been an employee, I knew the security staff very well, and I distinctly remember talking to security guard Ed as we walked through the swing, and he locked the doors. He locked every door and pulled on the knob to make sure it was locked. And I know for a fact he locked the mummy door. Once the show

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started, I was alone in the break room, and I heard a creek, like a very old door was opening. I remember looking out into the hallway and seeing no one, but the main entrance door to that wing was still closed. The bathroom door was still open. No one was using it, and there was no one else anywhere near me. So, I got up and I went out to the hallway. Sure enough, the door right next to me was wide open and the lights were on. I peaked into the room, saw the mummy, and I said, "Hey girl." Pulled the door closed and made sure it was locked. I always joke that the mummy really liked the theater and just wanted to be a part of it. Maybe she's the one whispering hello at everyone. All I know is that she's in a glass cage and there's no way that door could have opened on its own. So maybe she just needs to be freed to watch the theater. Thank you guys for creating a safe space for spooky weirdos. I love you so much and I'll probably cry if I actually hear this on the podcast. You two are the best. I hope we get to see each other on the other side and spend an eternity haunting Earth together as friends from Cass. Oh my god, what a freaking cool

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place to work. One, like all the tunnels, too. Yeah. And just like obviously this place is haunted. It makes so much sense. Unfortunately, Cass got fired, so we can't use Cass to go explore. Okay, this is reminding me of Greg and Dana Newkerk's tour when they had their ventriloquist dummies just like out in the lobby. I feel like this mummy needs to be in a glass case that is on wheels so they can bring the mummy around. Like perhaps she does want to watch some some shows. Perhaps she wants to be in the front. She wants to greet people. Maybe she wants to see some daylight, which I know doesn't really work well for mummies, but this mummy needs to be on the go. Let's see if we can look up the mummy at the Vanderbilt Museum to see if we can see a picture, which is also just so random that there's a mummy at the Vanderbilt Museum. Oh, there is. It's a 3,000-year-old mummy. So weird. Makes sense, though. Like I don't know how they acquired it, but if it was because the Vanderbilts bought it, that makes sense because they were just freaking acquiring all these oddities. It says

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she was acquired by Mr. Vanderbilt in Egypt in 1931. He was visiting the E Hotton and Sons antique shop in Cairo and purchased the mummy there, which is so crazy that they were just selling mummies there. And purchased the mummy there along with the glass case that she's displayed in. Oh. Oh, this is actually not that expensive. It puts the modern day price in the range of about $20,000. Can you imagine if years in the future someone just like digs up your body, puts you into a shop and sells you to like just go home in someone else's house for them to be like, "Wa, look at this cool dead body." And you're like, "What? That is wild." Yeah. Okay. A little bit more about her. We know that the mommy was a young woman in her 20s and fairly healthy, too. Her death seems to be of natural causes, suggesting sudden illness or possibly child birth. Her exact identity is hard to pin down, but given the state of her coffin, it's likely she was a lesser noble woman. We've dated her to the 21st dynasty in ancient Egypt, which makes her over 3,000 years old today. That's so cool.

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Very cool. But I'm also stressed about this. I'm stressed that she was taken. I'm stressed that she was sold. I'm stressed that she's here in America. But I guess she's she seems okay with it. Maybe if she's just saying hi to everyone and eating chocolates, perhaps. I mean, if I were dead, that would be a cool place for me to hang out. Yeah, I guess that's true. So strange. Wow. We love mummies. And in this case, it's not really even a mummy. Oussie is just an iceman. That's true. A preserved iceman. Yes. Well, if you have any mummy stories or ghost stories generally, please email us at two girlsodcast@gmail.com. We would love to read them and include them in a future episode. So, email us. You can rate and review wherever you listen to podcasts. Tell people about us. Join us on Patreon for ad free oneweek early content and additional bonus episodes and campfire stories where we bring you on stage with a group of like-minded paranormal enthusiasts to tell ghost stories live.

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And you can also follow us on social media. Watch on YouTube if you want to see some of the photos that we discussed in the episode. And shout out to our editor and producer Jamie Ryan. And thank you to all of you for listening to our podcast. We love you and we will see you on the other other side. Very spooky.