POSSESSION STORY | The Watseka Wonder | Haunted Paranormal Podcast (Ep 343)

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Spooky, scary possession stories. She would like Mary Roff to take over her body and that is exactly what happened. Mary in Rancy's body recognized everyone that Mary Roff had known. This is the tale of Mary Lurancy Vennum and Mary Roff, the deceased daughter of a nearby family. Very spooky. Hello. Hello. Happy October from Two Girls One Ghost.

Two Girls One Ghost. And we are your ghostesses. That is someone from the

costumes, Elara and intention setting

1920s. Getting spooky. And that's Mothman.

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Check out my chiseled abs. So good. We're basically Basically I'm literally breathing and talking with it

inferior. What did it say? Inferior.

Inferior. Yeah, we are pretty inferior right now. I'm talking through a face mask so I keep sucking in the the screen.

Oh, yeah. I will say I've never been so happy that these teeth are fake that is on my mask because my mouth is right up on them. And they are very scary real-looking teeth.

Yeah, I found this possum mask on Etsy. It's so cool.

seashells and burlap, but it just reminded me of the original costumes. Like back in the day people would make their own costumes usually out of paper mache masks, but like still burlap or extra cloth people would make masks for Halloween so I was like it's so cool.

I'm going to pull back on like the original idea of a Halloween costume. I love it and we without really planning it both picked to do this outside.

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Masked. Masked episode. I'm so distracted. I can barely see through this burlap, but I'm so distracted by your eyes because they're they're not just like red, they're glowing and they're moving and you just feel like an animated character right now.

I have no idea what I look like right now.

Can you see me? I can see you. Behind you. Who's behind you?

Who's behind you? We also have another special guest with us today.

And that is Sabrina's doll friend Alora. Alora.

Alora. So it's October, which you know what that means. Spooky, scary possession stories.

Although Corrine, you warned that this one actually isn't that terrifying, which is great.

Yeah, I'm shocked that it's not. So I picked a really scary listener story for us to read at the end. Uh-huh. Um but we do encourage since it is October and we are talking about exorcisms, possessions, darker topics and we are inviting a spirit, a haunted doll to be a part of the episode it's always

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encouraged to set intentions. Mhm.

And we also because we are inviting Alora into the studio, we are setting intentions with her just letting her know that she's safe. We are respecting her boundaries, she will respect ours and she doesn't have to communicate with us if she doesn't want to, but should she like to we've got ghost tube running and maybe she'll warn us if anything dark is coming in here or she'll just let us know that we're inferior. If you are curious about Alora's story, go check out our episode that came out on October 7th cuz we did an introduction to her.

You're watching us.

I always feel like I do feel weirdly as if I'm being watched more now. I think because I can't really fully see my surroundings. Well, I didn't feel like that, but now I'm going to be paranoid. I also have to scratch my nose, but it's going to look like I'm picking a booger, but it's like through the mouth hole. Ah, that felt good.

That did. Look at your poop good.

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It's ragweed, Susan. Consciousness. What does it say?

Consciousness. Are we all one? Consciousness. What is consciousness? Are we actually the ones who are dead? Oh, speaking of being dead uh kind of I saw the new Conjuring movie. Experiment. How was it? It Bless you. Bless you. I think I'm allergic to the mask.

I'm sorry, that was there's something about watching you sneeze in a mask that was the most amazing thing I've ever experienced. Also, why is it that like all of your costumes this year I'm like, "Wow, you're really attractive." The Victorian possum, Sabrina. Oh, my ears fell off.

When is your next therapy appointment cuz I think you need to bring this up with your therapist.

I think I do, too. There's a lot of things wrong with me, but um the Conjuring movie

Actually, to your point of like I think it's just like the attraction to like beasts and other things because the other day I was thinking about like my first crush and then who my second crush was and my third crush and like going through and these were all like

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celebrity crushes and I realized I have no childhood crushes that weren't related to the paranormal. Okay, who are they?

Casper, the little vampire I loved Little Vampire.

Right? I loved Luke from Halloweentown Okay.

both as a monster and as a normal human being, but mostly as a beast

Hilarious.

as his little monster self. Danny Phantom Like just they're all And now you're in love with Brian.

And luck of the Irish. Like I liked the leprechaun.

We like you. Oh. Oh. So you also have the same sort of crushes then I assume Alora or whoever is speaking here. Maybe Alora Alora feels the way I do. We like you.

Also, can we just recognize what different energy this is

this is compared to when we first recorded with all of the haunted items.

Um the Conjuring movie, I really enjoyed it. I feel like it was so much more about Ed and Lorraine Warren and their lives than it was the Smurl family possession case. Oh. But I like

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That bumps me out though cuz the Smurl possession case has so much.

Yes. But I think the Conjuring films have always been about the Warrens and then this they just like focused even more on it. And so I felt like there was not enough Smurls. I also feel like I've become a little bit desensitized in terms of fear when it comes to scary movies because I wasn't spooked. Mhm.

I don't know, there's something about maybe it was the way they were portraying the entities that felt too fake. I don't know, I haven't seen it. I don't know. I mean I enjoyed it. It was a great as a horror movie I enjoyed it, but yeah, definitely did not feature the Smurls enough and I think our episodes on them are scarier. Well, and people experience a lot of hauntings. I do wonder if any of the Conjuring movies like if people leave and immediately experience anything when

about that sort of thing cuz that's like You're opening yourself up.

Yeah, and in like a mass-produced way where when people listen to our episodes, you know, like we're giving

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warnings. Yeah. But when people go and see a movie about it or like based on it

There's no warning. It's like, "Oh, this is a horror movie. This is just for fun." Success.

Success. Success. Okay, and then I rewatched The Exorcist, which I'm like, "Did I Have I ever really seen this in its entirety or have I just like been terrified by things and moments of it while other people are watching?" Because I did not remember so much of it. And can you believe that in the original film that was released in theaters the scene where she crawls backwards down the stairs was cut out? What?

It wasn't until like the 2000s when it was re-released as a like extended director's cut that that scene was put back in.

iconic part. Right.

That makes me mad basically at the different companies that like dis- not distribute, but like the whole production company or like the buyer of the film because

chose to cut it out originally because

See, I never would have guessed that. I would have thought that artistically he'd want it in especially if during the director's cut he's putting it back in.

He thought it looked too weird. Oh, like

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it was take you too out of the story. Mhm. I'm like, "That's what I remember from the movie." And I watched the original and I was like, "Wait, when does that happen? Is that from a different version?" But no, it was not in the original version of the film. Wow. Yeah. That one's scary though. Classic horror film.

Yeah. But um

All right. Well, we're going to get into horror today. Interestingly enough, oops, am I hitting my microphone with my teeth?

been until just now. Fail. I feel Yeah, I did though.

All right. So I was actually kind of shocked because Sabrina alluded to this earlier, but I picked an exorcism case, which I was like, "Perfect. This is going to be so creepy and spooky." Turns out it's like maybe the most light-hearted possession case maybe exists. Which feels like a oxymoron having a convent. Why do I keep thinking it's saying Corrine? But yeah, it feels like an oxymoron to have a light-hearted possession {slash} exorcism. It does. All right, so let us begin.

The Watseka Wonder

On a quiet street in a modest Midwestern

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town along the Iroquois River a house sits. From the exterior it may look unassuming, peaceful even. But inside the house still remembers the weight of a girl who more than a century ago came home to a family that had already buried her. What? This is the tale of Mary Lurancy Vennum. Her nickname was Rancy for short. And Mary Roff, the deceased daughter of a nearby family. This is a possession case or maybe a performance so convincing that even the sharpest minds and researchers of the era argued over what exactly was happening. And the story begins

Have we met? Well, if it is you Alora, um I know we're we look confusing. It is Corrine and Sabrina.

You live with Sabrina. We just are wearing masks. So the story begins in the late 1870s. Watseka is the kind of place where news travels very quickly and strangers don't really stay

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strangers for long. And in 1868, the Roth family built an Italianate home in this idyllic community. It had ornate brackets, tall windows, enough room to host some conversations for people that were also had some curiosities similar to the Roth family. So, the Roth parents, Dorothy and Asa or Aza, I might be mispronouncing this. I'm going to say A Does Asa for this Asa, okay.

story. A S A. But Dorothy and Asa, they were actually spiritualists and they were pretty prominent members of the spiritualist movement at this time. Which already when I first learned that I was like, okay, well, is there some like something happening because they're making it it happen for like the sake of spiritualism or something? Yeah.

But it actually does not go that direction. What we know already coming into the story is that the Roth family believe in the possibility of contact Mhm. from the other side. Down the road lived another family, the Vennums. And their daughter, Mary Lurancy, was born

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on April 16th, 1864 and was by all accounts a very ordinary child. Much of her childhood was very typical, but all of that changed when she turned 13 years old. Why do I feel like this is turning into Carrie? Ooh, I was thinking Harry Potter. But it's a little bit of both. In July

Rancy's visions

of 1877, Mary Lurancy began to startle awake at night. There were people in her room, her voices. She couldn't see anyone at first, but they were whispering in her ear and they were whispering her nickname. They were saying, "Lurancy, Lurancy, Lurancy."

Oh, that's so scary. Yeah, so she was terrified and she told her mom about this and then just a few days later, after hearing all of these voices in the middle of the night, Lurancy just collapsed. It was evening, she was with her family, she collapsed and started convulsing for hours in what they thought was a seizure at the time.

Right, I would think that, too. Yeah, and this would be the first of many seizures for poor Lurancy.

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So, through autumn of that year of 1877, Lurancy would drift in and out of these seizures, which seemed to be a lot more like trances. And I know that like absence seizures can also kind of look more like someone's just in a daze or in a trance or like drifting off into space. But when she came out, she would describe seeing two of her deceased relatives. She would see her own brother and sister. So, it wasn't like she was just completely blank. It said Benjamin and then something else. I have no idea. I'm curious, does she know the names of the siblings? You know what? I don't think I wrote them down. What if it is Benjamin and

Ooh. So, basically like she was going into these seizures, which would Who's Jesse? Well, the Aloura story is that she was sadly murdered by her brother. Oh. I wonder if his name is Jesse.

Jesse. I hope not. Aloura, you're safe here. Okay, so she's seeing her deceased siblings. She's seeing her deceased siblings. So, these I like I don't know what happens when people seize and if they like hallucinate or if they dream or if it's just blank, I'm not sure. But

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yeah, she was coming out and she was talking about the two siblings that she'd lost, her own brother and sister. Mhm. And while the visions were obviously like a very confusing, but also maybe a little exciting to get a glimpse of the other side, it really did start to take a toll on her and her health continued to decline. Mhm. By winter, these trances or seizures intensified and now Lurancy was crippled with violent stomach pains multiple times a day.

She would drift off into this dream-like state, she would stare blankly for hours at a time. Though when she would return from the state, she was completely mentally normal again. So again, they're like, is this a seizure? Is this not like what's going on? Right. Did they go to the doctors? They eventually do bring in a doctor, yeah. Okay, I am raising my hand here because the first time your child has a potential seizure, don't you take them to the doctor? I don't know what happens in the 1870s. I guess. I think the doctor comes to you.

That's true. I should have dressed up as a You got the You got the spiritualist

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vibes. Yeah. Very much. Very much, they're in agreement. I got the spiritualist vibes. When Lurancy was first entering these trances, she started to see her brother and sister, right? But by now, a few months later, she is starting to describe seeing angels and heaven. And her parents are

Interesting. becoming increasingly concerned for her. And so they did whatever they could to help her. So, two physicians were actually brought in to help or I guess like evaluate Lurancy and hopefully provide some answers as to how she could recover or what illnesses is or whatever. Also, I know that this is a possession story, so I'm curious if Francis. Hi, Francis. Are we calling Saint Francis for some assistance? But I'm curious if her saying she's seeing angels in what's heaven, like is that what the spirits are telling her? Oh. Or is that just intuitive intuitive? Right, like that's what she believes she sees. Sounds right. But it is interesting because while she didn't call upon a Saint Francis, like they did

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call religion into play here. So, they did bring in a Methodist minister.

Invisible. Wicca. Ooh. Wicca, is there witchcraft going on? You think maybe some dark magic? Are we adding an extra element into the story? We are. So, she's seen by two physicians, she's seen by this Methodist minister and in the end, basically, she's not given any medicine or treatment plan, no care plan. Mhm. She's not even given a diagnosis. Instead, these professionals recommend a different line of treatment. They say that Mary Lurancy needs to be sent to the asylum because Mary Lurancy is insane. Okay. I've just been reading a lot about history of female hysteria.

Yeah, and like hysteria. I'm glad they didn't recommend that because she's a child. Oh my god. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you don't know, um, hysteria comes from the word It's like a Greek word like hystera. For uterus. Like hystera.

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And uh doctors used to It's coming. Oh, no. Are you adding to the story? It's coming. Doctors used to like prescribe massaging of the clitoris as a cure for hysteria. Yeah. Women have long undergone undergone Well, now I make up my own words.

Anyway. It's awful. It's awful. So, now they're saying that they need to send this 13-year-old girl to the asylum. And so this is where Asa Roth, the Roth family, steps in because this is the Vennum family and they live down the road from the Vennums.

my way. So, like the other side of town. You just said move out of my way. We're stationary. Yeah. Who's in the way? I mean, it is a very cluttered room. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff around. Bring it. Bring what? My dance moves? So, Asa Roth, the Roth family, they're down the road, they'd built the Italianate mansion, they're the spiritualists. And now again, this is a

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small town, so gossip travels. The Roths had not previously had any meaningful contact with the Vennums other than the two men from each household meeting like one time in passing. If anything, there is like maybe a wrapping paper sale over the years.

Exactly. It was like a nothing more than like one single exchange of pleasantries. Otherwise, they had no communication with each other, they didn't know details of each other's lives other than what was passed through the town gossip. Sure. And so basically, this is how the Roth family learns that the Vennums were experiencing this with their daughter and that there was the recommendation to send her to the asylum. And so, Asa Roth is like, "Oh my god, this cannot happen." He worked as a lawyer and he was no stranger to what the Vennums were enduring because his own daughter, Mary, had suffered a similar ailment. She had some fits, she had visions that overtook her. And just like what was about to happen or like what was happening with the Vennums, the Roth family was advised to send her to

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an died. At the asylum?

I believe so, yeah.

Oh my gosh. Well, I was just thinking at 13 years old, can you imagine being sent to an asylum, being taken away from your family? You're already like going through this like horrific ailment, what whether it's mental illness or a physical illness, and then you're isolated from your family, put in a really terrifying foreign place where you probably aren't being treated the best. That's so scary.

My right arm is suddenly like absolutely freezing, too. I keep trying like trying to rub it on the armchair, it won't warm it up.

Maybe Aloura was saying move out of the way so she can get to the microphone. Oh, sorry. You can sit here, too. You guys are kind of matching. You have similar dresses.

Oh, yeah. Well, I think I was inspired by you. All right. Okay, so Mary passes away and this is before the Roths had moved down the street from the Vennums. And at the time of Mary Roth's death, Lurancy, who was now being told at 13

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years old that she should go to the asylum, was only 1 year old. So, they were they were not near the same age. Like there was no interaction with these children, either. So, she passed away when Lurancy was 1 year old. Yeah. Okay. Mary Roth was 18. Yeah, okay. So, Asa is pleading with Lurancy's parents. He's like, "Do not make the same mistake that we did. Do not send her to the sanatorium." And Asa then asks them, the family, the Vennums, to allow a Wisconsin physician who is also a spiritualist, Dr. E. Winchester Stevens, to first see Lurancy before they make any final decisions. I am so glad that the Roth family is stepping in. Right? And like I'm sure he's convincing, one, because he's a lawyer and two, it's like also like a parent-to-parent situation. He's like pleading, like no, we experienced the same thing and it's one of our like deepest regrets that actually happened.

a great neighbor. Yeah. So, he pleads with them, "Please let me bring in this doctor spiritualist friend that I have or physician."

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And the Vennums, wanting to do whatever they could to help save their daughter, agreed and invited this spiritualist physician, Stevens, and the Roffs into their home. On January 31st, 1878, Stevens and Asa Roff arrived to the Vennum home. And they found Rancy hunched over the stove. Her eyes were hard. Her voice was sharp. And when Stevens asked her name, she did not say Larancy or her nickname Rancy. She instead identified herself as Katrina Hogan. Oh.

She answered that her age was 63. She was from Germany. Oh.

And then abruptly, she was someone else. This time, a man named Willie Canning. And the room is becoming super crowded with all these identities coming through. There was

imagining her Rancy's just like demeanor completely shifting, her voice changing as each entity is coming through her, which makes me so sad because clearly she's a medium or a vessel of some kind

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that is open to What's the word? Where you can like channel spirits. But like there's no boundaries cuz she doesn't know how to control it. Right. And this isn't necessarily like my thought too also went to just like different mental illnesses where like, you know, you have different identities coming forward and stuff. But I think if my understanding of that situation is that there's always like an identity that's present and forward. And I think that for her there would just be these big sudden bouts of like many switching through and then she was herself again. Geez. So, there's a bunch coming through. And again, like like you said, there's the question of is Rancy channeling spirits through her or had she become possessed? Mhm. So, Stevens I think we view possession as a demonic spirit, but possession can be just spirits.

Séance. All right. Séance. Séance. Séance. All right.

Assuredly. Would you like to do a séance? Well, it's interesting because this is like kind of what happens.

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Mary Roff's Possession

So, in the time that Stevens was here, he started coaxing and questioning Rancy to try to get the answers that he needed. But after an hour of doing so and not really getting any meaningful information, Rancy fell to the floor and then she entered one of these trances. So, now she was just like staring off into space. Oh. And in this trance, she actually was able to speak more freely and more focused and Stevens' questions were answered more directly. So, while she's like staring off into space, she stated that she believed that Katrina and Willie were evil spirits. Oh. And

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Stevens then asked for a higher pure spirit to step forward and take control. Rancy replied that there were many, but there was one angel who could step forward and provide her name. And the angel's name was Mary. Mary Roff.

No. Oh my god. Right? Chill. Like my nips get hard when that happens. Ooh. Wow. Okay, well, my question I'm so curious if Mary

She said, "Please go." Oh. Um sorry.

We will in about 60 minutes. I'm so curious if Mary had come through before and cuz there is a skeptic part of me that's like, okay, now that the Roff family is coming in and they've like shared their story and their tragedy

and go. of their daughter Mary, is that why Rancy is now bringing up her name?

Right. Right. Like again, like I was saying in the beginning, is this a real possession case or is this a performance? So, this happens, jaws are on the floor, and presumably mostly Asa's jaw is on the floor because here

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he is trying to save this little girl in this town from suffering the same fate that his own daughter did like a decade before. Right. And now he's standing in front of this little girl and his own little girl speaks out.

own daughter is trying to do what he's trying to do, is save her.

Yes. Ugh. So, Rancy stated then she would like Mary Roff to take over her body. Mhm. And that is exactly what happened. There were no more evil spirits fighting over Rancy, just one angel, Mary Roff. Rancy's body then softened once she welcomed in this other spirit, Mary. And she became quite courteous, very affectionate. She was a bit timid, but very polite. Okay, but okay, sorry. Cynical me, is this really Mary or is this the most powerful dark demonic

do? entity who had strategy? And I I know that's probably not where this is going given the If there were some like nefarious acts that came after that, I would say, "Oh, yeah, totally." But actually this is kind of a lovely possession story.

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But it was really interesting because like this was such a stark difference from Rancy's own personality over the past few months and the way that her body softened and the way that she spoke and carried herself. It was so so different and it was exactly the way Mary Roff had when she was alive. And so, here is a little bit where the story veers off course from where we see other possession cases happen because Rancy allows Mary to access her body. And we can presume that this was meant to help Rancy kind of like stay safe when communicating and advocating for herself with the physician Stevens because there were other spirits, bad spirits apparently, who were trying to take over her body. Right. But Mary did not just temporarily stay in Rancy's body. She stayed for a long time. Well, then where is Rancy? Somewhere still hidden in her own body, I guess. This is wild.

Mhm. And she didn't just stay for a long time. She wanted to go home. So, Mary

No. begged to go home. She begged her parents. Yeah, she begged to go back to

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the Roff house just for a little bit of time cuz she was so homesick. Oh my god. Which is like I get it and that's sad, but how do you deal with that as Rancy's parents?

Right. I think that there was a a bit of back and forth and they did eventually let her go. Mhm. Okay, another cynical thought, is this actually the Roff family's entire plan? Okay, another cynical thought, is this actually the Roff family's entire plan? And they did a séance and told Mary to go take over Satanic, yeah. Did they tell Mary to go take her body cuz they knew that she was a a vessel? Oh my gosh. And Asa Roff didn't hear it about it from town gossip. It was just because they orchestrated it.

Yes. That is a cynical ordeal. Plot twist. I don't think anyone is alive from this story. So, hopefully you know, we can still say the word allegedly, but I don't think that this is a true accusation of what happened.

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But she begged to go home. Which Which? She was super homesick. And actually when Mary Roff's mother, Ann, and her older sister Minerva walked into the Vennum home to see this girl Rancy who it supposedly was their daughter/sister, Mary. Mhm. The girl cried, "There comes my ma and my sister Nervy." Using a nickname for Minerva that the family had not used since Mary's death. It was like what Mary called her sister, Minerva.

only Mary would have really known that. Yeah, cuz no one else called her Nervy. Oh my gosh. Though reluctant, Mr. Vennum called Mr. Roff's office on February 1st and he said, quote, "She seems like a child real homesick, wanting to see her pa and ma and her brothers." Oh my gosh.

I assume her sister Minerva, too. But I guess she'd already laid eyes on her. Yeah. On February 11th, 1878,

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less than 2 weeks after Mary Roff took over Rancy Vennum's body, and with the consent of both families, the girl all moved into the Roff's home. I'm sorry. Like I cannot imagine being Rancy's parents.

Right. They took it really hard. I know that Mr. Vennum did go visit and some other relatives did, but I don't think her mom went and visited because she was like, "This is so not my daughter." Like it was too hard. It was so confusing. She didn't act anything like her and didn't recognize her, either. And was like kind of in distress when like the threat of being taken from her her home, the Roff the Roff's home. Why do I feel like Rancy is the one communicating with us on Ghost Tube? Like it just said, "I'm weak." Like was Rancy so weak I mean, probably. That's like

was just taking over her. Dolls. What would you do with a doll here? Okay, well I don't want to give too much away, but like she was weak and Mary wasn't making her weak. I think Mary was actually like protecting her as she regained her strength from battling these spirits for like all of fall and

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to winter. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. Okay, so then they asked how long Mary in Rancy's body is going to stay here and she said, "Quote the angels will let me stay until sometime in May." And this was February that she That's a very poetic sentence.

Yes. The angels will let me stay until sometime in May. And she remained there for 3 months and 10 days. Oh my god. A daughter returned in a borrowed body.

proof of past memories

And here's the thing, this maybe could have been dismissed by other people as like this teen girl with some mental health struggles and a grieving family who's looking for any sign of their daughter to see that like that she's still with them, right?

Right. But this goes beyond Rancy just behaving like Mary. She has Mary's memories now. Oh my gosh. Mary in Rancy's body recognized everyone that Mary Roff had known, neighbors, school

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friends, household visitors from the 1850s and the early 1860s before Rancy had even been born. This is crazy.

Mhm. Sometimes she would remember them by other names. So like when people had been married and like their surname had changed and she didn't know that cuz she died, she'd call them by their the name that she knew them by. Yeah. Oh, she called one woman by her widow's name from years before not knowing that she the woman had lost her spouse and remarried and now that was the name everyone was using. She recalled a journey to Texas that the family had made years earlier. So there was like a family vacation and she was recalling the different companions they made on the trail, really specific details about the vacation, things that they learned while they were on the vacation. This somewhat reminds me of the Pollock twins reincarnation story.

god, yeah. I know it's very different but like tangentially they have some parallels. It's like proven in a way to be Mary. Right, there's like no trickery, there's no teenage girl who

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can act her heart out in the way that she is or like guess correctly so many times at such specific details. It doesn't make any sense.

Oh my gosh. So this appeared to be without a doubt Mary Roff getting a second chance at living even for just a few months through Rancy Vennum's body. Some other strange things happened. Apparently for the first month out of the three that Mary was home, she refused to eat. She like literally didn't eat for 1 month. She said that she was getting what she needed from heaven and that she would refrain from eating until the body was ready again. Okay. What? I mean scientifically can't you not go that long more than like 7 or 10 days or something like that? Right? Yeah, I don't know what the breakdown is. It's like obviously you need water.

Water definitely first. Jeez.

Yeah, but apparently she didn't eat for a month. That girl is snacking on chocolate up in her room. That's what I was like she Oh, she's the midnight snacker. She's eating everything in the middle of the night.

Mysteriously like the cheese is

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disappearing. Right. Okay, so a bunch of other strange things happened and actually she is entering into these trances again. So just like she had previously when all these spirits were coming through and entering Rancy's body and speaking through before Mary took her over, this apparently starts to happen again. And one day one of the voices says that he'd lived and died in Tennessee and then the spirit stated that Mary would continue to keep control of Rancy's body until she was healthy again. Cleaning. Cleaning house? I'm just so curious. I would love to know what Rancy's perspective is and like if she has any memory at all from these months of being of recovering if that's what it's being called. Well, I think the answer is no and we'll get there. Okay. So Mary's sister, Minerva, Nervy, wrote a letter

Nervy. Nervy. She wrote a letter to Dr. Stevens, the physician and spiritualist, that said, "Quote A few days ago Mary

34:00

was caressing her father and mother and they became a little tired of it and asked why she hugged and kissed them. She sorrowfully looked at them and said, 'Oh pa and ma, I want to kiss you while I have lips and hug you while I have an arm to hug you with. Wait, this is so sad.

For I'm going to heaven before long and then I can only be with you in spirit and you will not always

Are you okay? Oh, I am sad.

Yeah, I'm so sad. And you will not always know when I come and I cannot love you as I can now. Oh, how much I love you all. Why do I feel like she sounds like a Shirley Temple character? Yeah, a little bit. The way you also read it. So this is very much a special thing for the Roffs to experience, probably for Mary herself too, right? Cuz they're they're getting this It's it's a mixed feelings. Well, it's a reminder that this is temporary and that they really did lose their daughter. Mhm. And it's so weird too cuz you're like getting hugged and kissed by your daughter but it's like not physically

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her. And I understand this actually really reminds me of the movie Bring Her Back that just came out cuz it is very similar of like trying to get a new vessel and bring back a spirit of your loved one. But it's horrible because in one way yes, there's temporary spell the it's like a temporary reunion with your loved one but at some point you're going to lose them again. I know and then there's a whole other family too that you have to consider. It's like you're borrowing another person who's still alive. Yeah. And so the Vennums like they felt conflicted too. I mentioned this before but like Mrs. Vennum didn't visit. It was weird. The person looks like her daughter but it wasn't her daughter at all. She had no knowledge or memory of them. She only knew this family, the Roffs, who they hadn't known anything about prior to this. So it's like it was too hard for her to watch the body of her daughter Haunted. just like It is haunted.

reject her and fully embrace this other family. I mean this is why I do feel like there's some like other thing

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happening behind the scenes that maybe is just not really talked about in the story because how convenient that this family, the Roff family, came in to try to prevent the family from sending their 13-year-old daughter to a asylum Mhm. and then all of a sudden they get to steal instead of the daughter going to the asylum, this daughter goes to live with the Roff family. It does feel a little too convenient.

It it does. But also it's like when we're talking about the spirit world, is this how things work? I don't know. There's something about it that I just feel like

There's something a little icky about it for sure.

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Rancy returns

On May 7th Mary went to her mother and told her that Larancy Vennum was coming back. Within moments Mary's sweet and calm disposition changed and suddenly a

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new personality emerged. She looked at her mother Dorothy, though it was kind of confusing because some people said that her name was Ann and that maybe she It was Whatever her mom's name was, it could be Dorothy Ann. Yeah, Dorothy Ann. She looked at her mother and it was no longer Mary looking at her own mom. This was not her mom. Rancy stood before her absolutely terrified, looking around her, confused apparently as to where she was. And then she begins to cry. Aw. She was so scared and she wanted to go home. Aw, that makes me so sad. Just as quickly as Rancy came back

I'm having so much anxiety. I need to take this off.

Okay, take it off.

Please come back. I'm back. Huh, sorry. The cocoon. You've been rebirthed. I was really trying to breathe through it and it got to a point where I thought I was going to die. Yeah. So just as quickly as Rancy came back into her body, Mary took it over again. Rancy had only been present for 5

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minutes of which she was really scared and asking to go home and confused as to where she was. So Mary came back forward and said that she would actually stay in Rancy's body for a few more weeks until May 21st. Huh. Asa Roff in a letter written to Dr. Stevens which I appreciate that they're like the family I don't know if it was like a required check-in that they had to like write updates about what was happening to this physician. But now the father, Asa, is writing, "Quote Mary is to leave the body of Rancy today about 11:00 so she says." This is so I've never heard of anything so clinical when it comes to a possession. Right? It does feel like a possession and not like this girl had any say in like acting out the parts because like there's too many unrelated people moving in like a perfect line forward.

Right. Huh. So he said, "Mary is to leave the body of Rancy today about 11:00." So she says she's bidding neighbors and friends goodbye. She tells

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me to write to Dr. Stevens as follows. "Tell him I am going to heaven and Rancy is coming home as well." She says she will see your dear children in spirit life. She talked most lovingly about the separation to take place. And most beautiful was her talk about heaven and her home. Huh. Then Wait, okay. So now I'm curious like is this physician communicating with a spirit of some kind? Or did Mary say this to him? No, Mary said this to her dad.

I want to talk. Oh.

in Rancy's body and then said, "Hey, can you tell this to Stevens?" Gotcha. Okay. So he's writing down like, "Hey, my daughter

told you told me to tell you." Okay. Okay. Okay.

My daughter who's in spirit form that's possessing this other child told me to tell you.

Okay. Okay.

That she's leaving at 11:00.

like so who Yeah. Okay.

Who Yeah.

Yeah. Telephone. But it's a game of letters. At 11:00 that day Mary did leave Lurancy Vennum's body.

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Rancy looked up at Asa Roff, a man who she did not know, with fear-induced tears, addressing Mr. Roff as sir and asking him to please take her home to her family. So she did not recognize him, which makes me think she truly was like trapped somewhere and didn't know what was going on.

Which makes me just so scared for Rancy and her soul for 3 months. Where is she?

Mhm. And what is she enduring? What is she seeing and experiencing? Were there flickers where she came through like I imagine when Mary was sleeping in her body? Mhm. Did Rancy's consciousness come through? Oh. That's who was snacking in the middle of the night. Or to keep her alive. Was Rancy like fully booted from the body? And just like in this ethereal like unknown?

In the like in between.

Which makes me think of Insidious. Did she get trapped in a scarier place? Right.

Below. Alora, are you trying to say where Rancy was?

She was alone. Below, I think. Oh,

42:00

below. Huh. Asylum. Hi. Oh. Well, she avoided the asylum, right? Yeah. Rancy was returned home. She did not hear voices again. She did not have seizures again. She did not have trances again. She did not speak of the dead again. She did not spirit channels again. Well, she did She wasn't a spirit channel anymore. I get it.

She did not channel spirits again. She instead went on to live a completely normal spirit-free life. Gosh, if only she had a It was in a time where she was writing an essay to apply to college. Let me tell you about the 3 months that I spent in

possessed someone else's home because there was a spirit possessing my body.

Also, she lived at home with her family until she married George Binning in 1882. They then moved to Kansas 2 years later. If you want to know If you want to know more

Nerd from Aussie. If you want to know more about this story and what happened

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to Rancy after, too, there is a book that I read. It is from Dr. Stevens himself. He published about the case in 1878. There is a fuller edition, too. I don't know which version I read. It was like 40 or 50 pages. But I'll link it in the show notes. It's called The Watseka Wonder. And it's a very interesting read because it also includes a lot more dialogue between everyone. And it is written in like, you know, the older English cuz it's from the 1800s. And so I was like, "This is so like the door." Like I I was using like the transatlantic accent when I was reading. Of course. But I did think it was cool. Fire. Are you saying Krinz's telling of the story is fire? Also, another interesting fact about this case is that William James, who was the first educator to offer psychology courses in the US and is often dubbed the father of American psychology Mhm. stated that this case, the Roff Vennum case, was {quote} perhaps as extreme a case of

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possession of the modern sort as one can find. Terrible. Because I mean, she was fully possessed for a good 3-plus months. It's just such a different iteration of possession than we've talked about. Yeah. Okay. So now we'll dissect the

Influences of the Spiritualist Movement

story a little bit and try to understand some of the influences at the time. So obviously the Roff family were spiritualists, right? And then they brought in Dr. Stevens, who was a physician, but he was also a spiritualist.

And obviously the Roff family was conducting seances for weeks and weeks and weeks and then came up with the plan. That's fact. That's a theory. That's a theory. Yeah. So the spiritualist movement is happening in tandem with Mhm. this case. In the 1870s, spiritualism had gone from the sort of like parlor novelty to a real social movement.

Yeah.

And circles would meet, mediums would lecture, journals chronicled spirit returns. And so this was a big thing. And so again, like you said, like there could have been some motivation behind the scenes from the Roffs to do this.

Right. In Illinois, the conversation

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around the Watseka case would become one of this movement's showcase stories. And of course, this brought in also many investigators. Richard Hodgson, a tireless investigator of mediums, had gone out to Watseka to check out and witness all of this himself. And he declared this case substantially as described. So basically he was saying like 24. it seems implausible for it to be anything more than what it it is, which is seemingly a case of possession. Huh. But not everyone agreed with him. In 1903, psychologist Frank Sargent Hoffman examined the reports and offered a different label. He said hysterical impersonation. He argued that Rancy was just a suggestible teen and perhaps she was immersed in gossip about the dead girl Mary Roff. Maybe that was like a thing of the town and she just became so absorbed in every detail. Mhm. Enough so that she could impersonate Mary without any supernatural help. Okay. Let's

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explore that as a possibility. What a drastic way to go about running away from home. And like

And then returns home.

to return. If it is like a mental illness in any way, it would continue throughout her life. Like it doesn't just like Ooh, it doesn't just abruptly stop after a few

Resolved. 3 months and 7 days or whatever. Yeah. Did help. You need help? Who needs help? All of us. Me. Yeah. You're agreeing? Yes, I need help.

No, no, to all of us. It was a delayed agree- agreement. Journalist H. Addington Bruce likewise favored a psychological and social explanation. Mhm. He said it was imitation, it was suggestion, it was the dynamics of a grieving family longing to believe that the child came back. So there was a lot of either like suggestion on the part of the Roffs for like how to act or details or do you remember? And maybe it wasn't just all magically given up by Mary in Rancy's body.

Sure. So everyone's like, "Okay, what's

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going on? We have this Watseka Wonder case. What is it in the end? Well, we can say what it looked like, right?

Start. We know that in the winter and spring of 1878, a teenager who had suffered seizures and trances stopped seizing. A dead girl's identity appeared in her place.

Hospital. Knowing names, rooms, details not written or spoken about anywhere else. And then 3 months later, this identity left. The teenage patient inexplicably recovered. We can also say that some of the best minds of the era could not agree on what happened. Some found spiritual hypothesis less absurd than the alternatives. And some instead found grief and suggestion and the malleability of a young mind to be the explanation. Huh. And we can say what the living who were there said, what Mary's own sister said. That during those 3 months, she was allowed to hug her mother again, to tuck herself into

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her childhood bed, to speak of going away soon and loving them while she still had them in her arms. Whether you believe that that was the Start. dead borrowing a body or the living discovering a new way to heal, for the Roffs, it was healing. It was a great experience.

spend a night at Mary/Rancy possession house

And the house where this happened, the house where Mary and Rancy spent those 91 days still stands today. It's known today as the Roff house. It has been carefully restored. Its owners worked to earn the landmark Illinois Preservation Award in 2020 honoring this sort of revival of the original 1868 Italianate mansion. Well, I say mansion. It was It was a home. Yeah. Where this famous story takes place. And over the past decade and a half, more than 10,000 visitors have toured or stayed the night. And if you are the sort of person who likes history immersed with uh mystery Yeah. Like us.

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you can stay overnight.

Ooh. Because it is an Airbnb. No way. I thought it was going to be like a Like you you book through like the website or like whatever and it's just Yeah. Wow.

Airbnb. Anyone can stay there. People who don't even know that they're staying there can stay there. Wait, they don't realize the history of it. Right.

Yeah. They have no idea. They're like, "I just wanted to stay in Illinois." Yeah. Ooh, it's so it's so wild.

Crazy. Crazy. It is crazy. Alora, you're one of us. Obviously people who are interested in the paranormal and these sort of stories, they do book the Airbnb. And I didn't like find any real evidence online, but people say that or investigators claim that there are EMF spikes, EVPs are captured, there's shadow figures walking around, lights will flicker, just a very various paranormal Interesting.

anomalies. Oh, we don't know what was going on with the Ross in that house, how many seances they had, if they had made contact with other spirits prior to like in attempt to make contact with Mary.

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They're visiting you. Who? Or are you just saying like these spirits are visiting you when you book a stay at this place? Maybe. Just as a note, if you're hearing background noise right now, it is not a haunting, it is the generator. Yes. Our professional

still being kind and enjoying this experience, we believe, and so

love Aloura.

Yeah, this is good vibes, good vibes. But yeah, if you find yourself curious about booking a stay here, perhaps you will find yourself in a position like Mary where you can stay until sometime in May. Or you'll find yourself in a position where Mary takes over your body and is staying in the home until May. And you return to your life. It's Sorry, out of office, possessed by a girl from the 1800s who misses her family. But isn't that such a wild case? I have I don't know how to feel about it because I know, I want to

to take my mask off, too. But like I do want to believe it's just like beautiful story, and in a way it is, but it is

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also really tragic, and I have suspicions that perhaps there were other things going on behind the scenes that we're not fully aware of. And I feel really, really sad for Rancy. What happened to her in that time, regardless of if Mary was pleasant and it was a, you know, agreed upon, "Hey, help me take my body while I heal." Rancy went through a lot. Yeah. And Rancy's family had to experience a loss that's pretty traumatic. Totally. I know it is such a confusing thing, and it's like I want the answer to be within Rancy.

a shadow move. It's like right here.

Where? It's right here on the curtain, and I kept thinking like I'm doing something, but it's above me. Ooh, that freaks me out.

it's my

Oh, IT'S YOUR IT'S YOUR MOTH MAN.

IT'S MY ANTENNAS, my antennae. Okay, I'm putting my moth work on. I told myself I'd commit to the full episode.

Debunked.

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listener story

Okay, I have a story from our listener Ellie, and it is called My Dad Was Possessed. Oh, I shouldn't chuckle. Sorry. My dad, too, Ellie. Perhaps still. Hi, my name is Ellie. I'm a relatively new listener, but I've been binge watching on YouTube.

What's going on with come inside? Chuckle. Ellie thinks she we would enjoy this story. Ellie says, "I'm originally from Germany. I grew up in the Eifel mountain range and then moved to a city named Trier, which is arguably one of the oldest cities in Germany. I've experienced hauntings all my life and had the coolest witchy great-grandma, my Omi, who I've inherited some abilities from, which

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I'll share more on next time. But due to a language barrier, I apologize for any mistakes, weird ways of saying and pronouncing things because I'm not from here. This story takes place when I was 5 years old. Some of the details, memory-wise, are a little wishy, but I also have gaps filled by word of mouth from my mom and dad. At this point in time, we moved into a house located in a town called Spiker. This house was one of my favorite ones we ever lived in, and growing up with an American military dad, we moved a lot. This was a cute little town surrounded by fields, forests, and mountains, and there was one forest right outside of our house, and while we weren't allowed to go play in the forest, it was early 2000s and my parents didn't pay a ton of attention at times, so as a child, I went and explored even though we shouldn't have. I don't know exactly what caused the following events, but there are a number of things that played part in this. The old landscape, the old house, my dad's mental state coming out of active duty in the military, or my mother's involvement in magic. Ooh. But the year of 2005 was an

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eventful

was an eventful one. You're hoping it's magic? Us, too. It began with my brother and I playing deep in the woods and stumbling upon an old cottage. This feels like an old German fairy tale.

Mhm. Hansel and Gretel. The door was unlocked, and while I wasn't overly cautious child, my brother was not. So when he decided to step inside, I followed behind him. How are you? Even though we were 5 and 7 at the time, our memories of this are vivid. The interior was dusty, it smelled horrible, most of the furniture was broken, and the elements and nature had taken over most of the cottage. The flooring was dirt and growing grass, there was graffiti on the walls. We explored a little more, and Finn, my brother, found a brooch under the old wood stove, and he decided to keep it. It was cool, and honestly, probably a very cute hunter's cottage at one point in time. So both of us stepped outside, we circled the building, and my brother let out a huge gasp. When looking a little ways out, he saw a grave. And this is

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when I decided to stay back, but he decided to go investigate and told me that the grave said a name, which I no longer remember, but it was dated 1946, and it had a small symbol on it that was no longer recognizable. Tell me about it. Move out of my way. Follow me. A lot of things happening right now. Today we speculate that it might have been a German soldier's grave from World War II, but I have a theory that the brooch was haunted. Because fast forward a few months and my parents are in the thick of fighting constantly. And this is a very stressful time in Germany, and both my parents hated working, which I mean, I get, but when both parties refuse to do so, and we constantly have living room candlelit camping nights because utilities were shut off, it sucks. Life is what it is, and at the time, those were some nice moments for a codependent, scared little girl like me. I loved having everyone around all at once. One of the normal nights, though, when the utilities were intact, my brother and I would have sleepovers in each other's rooms. He said he would

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like to stay with me in my room because he knew I hated being alone, but I also secretly think he hated being alone, too. On this specific night, we heard both of our parents downstairs in the living room talking, and we decided to play spies. Slowly, we snuck our way down the stairs and stopped by the door by the living room. We noticed everything was quiet the moment we got there. The lights were off, the TV was off, there was nothing. My brother peeked his head into the room and looked wide-eyed, and immediately waved for me to follow him back upstairs to go back to our room. He told me once we were up there that there was no one down there. So who did we hear? But he dismissed me. Our Omi always taught us not to speak about the veil when it was open, because if there was present activity, we should ignore it. And so, we ignored it.

Watch me. Aloura? We actually didn't even speak about this night again until 2018, and also found out that like the Appalachia, European mountain ranges have some similarities, and our Omi was raised pagan. This is also the year my mom started practicing

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magic on her own in secret because my dad was very Christian and raised in a very close-minded household. She told me a few years ago that she had performed a spell for financial help, but thinks that she didn't word things correctly and maybe did something wrong. She did this in October, and by early December, hell broke loose in our house.

Wow. This is why you don't mess with things if you don't really know what you're asking for.

Right. Or make sure you have like boundaries set, intentions set. The earliest recollection I have about things being weird was when I had a nightmare, and this happened 20 years ago, but I still remember it as if it happened last night. The dream involved a little rotting monster. It was the size of a large dog, but looked like a zombified rat/fox. Ooh. And it was hunting us in our house. In this nightmare, we hide in the attic, but all of a sudden, all the doors and windows in the house fly open, and this thing got us. That's when I woke up. For the rest of that month, my dad started acting very strange. He would wander around the house at all hours of the

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day. He couldn't sleep. He would whisper things like see no evil, hear no evil, Ooh. speak no evil. Or That's strange. he would say over and over, "365 + 1."

Mind. Wait, what would he say? 365 + 1. Oh, plus one. 366. I don't know. 365. Damn you, Finn. Unfortunately, he was not doing that. And then he started speaking languages I've never heard before. He would snarl if you got too close to him when he was in a trance. His eyes would would change from his normal gray color to a deep green yellow. This is so scary. This reminds me of the Arne Cheyenne Johnson case.

Yeah. During this time my older brother became nonverbal and was taken to school in the countryside where he would stay until 2011 and only visited us every other weekend. My mom became depressed and would sleep most days away. My god. This is happening to everyone. Like everyone's so affected. So it was just me witnessing my father's conscious coma. He would tell horrible things about hell. He would ask me why my eyes

1:00:00

were black and he started having delusions of the walls turning to sand and scorpions crawling all over me or him or my mother who was barely present mentally either. One night I heard my parents screaming at each other. I crawled out of the bed into the middle of the stairs. I sat and watched. My dad had my mom pinned against the counter while holding a knife screaming, "What did you do to my family? I will cut all eight of your arms off if you don't bring my family back." I was six at this point. And I was fully aware that something was very very wrong with my dad and that I might witness him hurt my mom. I bundled myself up in a ball on the stairs and I prayed. I was never taught how to do this and I knew my prayer wasn't a good one, but I kept asking the universe that whoever was out there to please call my father and make him see the way I see things. I asked the universe to help my mom and make sure that we didn't die. When I opened my eyes, policemen were walking my dad out of the door. I had been sitting with my eyes closed for about an hour. I guess my mom had noticed me and pleaded to him

1:01:00

not to hurt her. And that I was sitting on the stairs watching. He had turned and he came to enough, basically cried to my mom saying, "Please call the police right now or I know something bad is going to happen." My dad stayed in a mental facility for 6 months and had another psychosis where everything replayed itself every 2 years. It always happened around December until 2012 at exactly midnight of that New Year. My dad came out of this trance and since then has been living relatively okay and has had no more psychosis experiences since then. Absolutely. My theories are the brooch could have had something attached to it and attached itself to my dad. My mom may have invited something in with her spell because once my dad got put into the facility, he now receives money from the military for PTSD. I'm not saying he doesn't have any PTSD, but it is weird timing and also they got money which proves again to very much state your intentions very specifically. Yeah, like be clear of how you want the money you get the money. Or maybe it's

1:02:00

just that the house in the mountains are haunted. I also have another theory about the world ending theory that happened around 2012 because I promise you guys that he was spanking out for that entire month and it was right up until midnight that he was having these delusions, but ever since it changed to midnight, he's been fine. So did the world end back then? Did we shift somehow into another world?

that we know kind of shifted, yeah, exactly. Whatever it was, I think left him or died in 2012. This is also the same year that I got into witchcraft and I moved in with my grandma for a year which I have plenty of stories from then as well. Also, my brother is totally fine now, too. He's 26. He has some trauma, but he's doing well and he's still my best friend, but across the big blue ocean. Oh, also I can't believe I didn't include this in the first email, but again, I was very young when everything happened and this was an ongoing experience for about 7 years. But my dad was diagnosed with schizophrenia during that time, but now somehow is completely fine and unmedicated and has zero mental

1:03:00

illness issues since then which schizophrenia doesn't have a cure. So I don't really know if that's what he had. Anyway, I'm not a doctor, but it's a little detail I wanted to add that really still boggles my mind. See you on the other side, Ellie. Wow. Um that's horrifying and that I would be so upset if that all was just because your mom did a money spell that went a little bit wrong. Right. I mean it could be just like a combination of all of those things. Like is the brooch haunted?

from everyone yeah, kind of coming out. Ugh. It's just like the perfect storm of things happening. I'm glad that everyone's okay. I cannot even imagine a 6-year-old seeing your dad threatening your mom with a knife saying like, "I'm going to cut off all eight of your arms." And then also the way that her mom then retells it of when Ellie's mom saw Ellie like crying and like praying on the stairs, she pleaded with the dad and the dad had a moment of

1:04:00

coming to being like, "Call the police. Like I don't have control of myself."

Yeah. Oh god. I think your dad's possession is scarier than my dad's possession. Yeah, I agree. Not that this is a competition, but it became one and you won.

Just now and you won. And you won.

the ribbon for first place. Like I don't even know what to say about this. It's just horrifying. I needed to make this thing to experience. Make the scary story happen at some point in this episode.

Yeah. I'm like grabbing onto myself from listening to this.

I know. I'm clutching my fingers cuz I don't want to wear them. Yeah. Um clutching my pearls except for my fingers. Uh Alora, what did you think of today's episode? Anything you want to add? Did you have fun with us? Alora has left the building. She's in a trance. Mary, are you here?

Mary? Huh. Well, we hope you enjoy or Benjamin. Those were the two names we kept hearing. Jesse and Benjamin. Well, we hope you enjoyed this episode. We hope no one got haunted. If you have any ghostly

1:05:00

paranormal encounters, please email them to us at twogirlsoneghostpodcast@gmail.com. Join us on Patreon for episodes 1 week early and ad-free plus bonus content plus campfire stories and so many other things and also stay tuned because at the end of this month, we are announcing some refreshed exciting new things happening on Patreon and possibly a re-taping.

I hope.

Talk with me. We're trying. What do you want to say? Oh, you want people to talk with you on Patreon? Ooh, that's a fun bonus. Good idea, Alora. So, stay tuned. And also we wanted to let everyone know that there's a new member of our team Yeah.

that we wanted to get

remember. Well, we can remember. Her name is Emma and she's been helping us out with social media. She's been helping kind of like manage the some business stuff for us which has been incredibly helpful. She's very creative. I think she has like a million jobs. I don't know how she does it all.

I truly don't.

has a child named Noah.

1:06:00

We have a girl baby Noah and a boy baby Noah.

Yeah, yeah. And thank you so much to

another place. our editor producer Jamie Ryan. Girl team. Girl power. We love you all and we will see you on the other side. Very spooky.