The Forgotten Witches of Winnsboro, South Carolina | The Witch Hunt and Trials of 1792 (Ep 287)

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Very spooky. Howdy. Howdy. Hey. Hey. What's up? quick. Quick to the draw. This is Two Girls One Ghost. Two Girls One Ghost. And we are your ghostesses. That's Karyn. Hello. I'm Sabrina. And this is Finn. Yeah. Finn is back with us. Hello. He's grown a bit. I swear to god if at some point during the recording the jaw just starts going like I'm going to lose my mind. Or he turns his head. Hello, Finn. of my recurring nightmares when I was a little kid was just you know those like wind-up teeth that would go like ch ch ch Oh, I hate those.

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This is so dark and I don't know why this came into my four-year-old brain. I had this recurring nightmare of one of those things going off and attacking this woman who was sleeping in her bed and she was pregnant and it was like trying to like Just a random woman? Just a random woman and it was trying to Eat the baby? Basically get into Yeah. What's that creature? The Oh my gosh. I did a whole episode Manananggal? Yeah, the Manananggal. Yeah, it's similar. Yeah, going for the baby except for they use a really long tongue. Right. I am curious now that I'm thinking back on it my mom had been pregnant with my brother like six months before and then he was born. I wonder if some of that like just anxiety of like my mom going through pregnancy was in my little four-year-old brain and I was just thinking about like a toy attacking her and the baby. You were concerned. You were concerned about your mom and your baby brother. I've always had dark intrusive thoughts. Yeah, nothing's changed. If anything they've gotten worse. If anything they're so much worse. So, that's what I came up with when I was

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four. Yeah. I told you this before, but on my family, we were all talking about like intrusive thoughts, because me, my mom, my brother, like we all have anxiety and have intrusive thoughts. My dad was like, "Oh my gosh, yes. I get them all the time, too." And we were like, "Oh, really? Like what happens?" And he's like, "Yeah, like sometimes I worry, like you know, what if what if a coyote comes and like attacks us you guys?" Like that's not an intrusive thought. That's just like a normal worry. Yeah, that's a normal worry. worry for living in a place with like a field where coyotes aren't behind it. Yeah. So, he tried to participate, but he's not let in the anxiety club. He's not one of you. No, he's not one of us. He's too happy. It was so cute that you Oh, oops, sorry. My cell phone fell. Do you want me to help you get it? No, I don't need it. Okay. I'm going to go on my phone in about 5 minutes, actually, and just ignore you for this whole episode. Even though it's your episode. It was really cute that your baby child your dad He knows that I like IPAs. So,

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he was so stoked to show me all the Vermont IPAs. And he saw the one that I was drinking, he was like, "No, no, no, no. You got to get this one next time." And it was really nice. Yeah, I did hear that he was trying to sway people at the cooler, cuz we had a cool we had a cooler that said IPAs, and then another cooler that just said all other beer. Yeah. Because it's what's not important. Right. All other beer. pretty stoked. Yeah, he was worried about who would drink the IPAs and then I was like, "Well, don't worry. I know Sabrina drinks some." And And Payne did, so. Yeah. He's got some IPA buddies. He had a few. Okay, I have something to read to you. Oh, oh, I'm excited, cuz you've been teasing this. I've been waiting. Okay. For 12 hours. Cuz I've been teasing it nonstop since um okay, so I'm moving into a house that was built in 1767, and it has one of those historical plaques. I'm not going to give my street address, shocker.

History of the new house

Um but basically I've been going into the archives and I've reached out to the historical society and I found one

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article on like the website where you can search the archives and I was so stoked because the plaque on the house says the name of a man that it was built for and he was a cooper. What's that? A person trained to make wooden casks, barrels, vats, buckets, tubs, troughs and other containers from timber. Oh, interesting. I could use his skills right now. I I would hire him if he were available. still alive. Yeah, I'd shop his Etsy shop. Yeah, but I actually found an article that kind of just um that plaque does not do it justice. Oh, really? So I found this article and this house was once used in part as a shoe factory and the owner paid off his employees in groceries. Oh, honestly kind of sweet deal. Very. So I'm going to It's like bartering. Like that's kind of what Right back in the day. that's what we we need. Yeah, you use your trade skills to Right. get uh things. Okay. So this was written on May 10th, I don't know what year, but the house is more than 200 years old and was built by Gammell Harris who erected

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the Foot and Salkin houses which are on the same street. Which is interesting because Gammell Harris is not the name on the plaque at all. No. So this was a developer then. One of the OG developers who's like let me just construct a bunch of houses for people. Exactly. Which is so interesting because at that time there were a lot of people who were like building their own homes. Right. You were in charge of building your house and and doing all of that. thing. Which is why a lot of them were really shotty. Yes. But also there the fact that they're still standing it's like that construction, you know, they took because a lot of people were building it themselves, they took so much care into building it. They were like, this needs to last forever. Mhm. The land on which these houses were built and the land in this vicinity was part of the Goodwin farm which was owned at the time by the Goodwin sisters. The house Win built was one and a half stories with gambrel roof and occupied by six families. Holy crap, they packed a lot of people in there. Aunt Polly Holden lived in the upper

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story and used to keep hundreds of pigeons, which she raised and sold. As if it weren't packed enough. Yeah, six families. you know what? And hundreds of pigeons. There might be 25 people in here, but you know what we need? Hundreds of pigeons. Hundreds. Hundreds. That's crazy. But they were well behaved. She had the upstairs all to herself. I don't I mean That's a pretty sweet deal. then the poor six family five other families were downstairs. Well, maybe that's why she got all the pigeons. She's like, I'm going to make this the room for everybody else. Maybe. James H. Snow, father of Samuel Snow, bought the property 105 years ago and added another story to the house, making it two and a half stories. James H. Snow conducted a grocery store on the whole lower floor and kept pigs in a long shed in the rear of the house. Oh, that's why they were making all those troughs for the indoor pigs. In the shed in the rear of the house, so backyard, which means there were a lot of slaughtered pigs in my land. Yeah. When the Civil War broke out, Mr. Snow turned part of the house into a shoe

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factory and made long boots, which were in style those days. He then paid his workmen in groceries. On the death of James H. Snow in 1872, his son, Samuel Snow, who was born in the house Born in the house. bought the property from the heirs and in the late years has had all modern improvements installed and all old fireplaces removed. The building had at that time 19 rooms occupied by three families. The second story commanded a fine view of the harbor and Marblehead neck. Mr. Snow is a veteran of the Civil War and is commander of John Goodwin part of it cut off. He is 81 years of age and is known as the miracle man of Marblehead, as he does not look as old as he is. He owns part of the old tavern which was made famous during the Revolutionary War and in which he makes his home during the summer months with his wife. So, he lived in the tavern during the summer summer months. That's freaking cool. And also the fact that he like doesn't age makes me think he did like a little bit of a handshake

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with that one wizard. Yeah, Dimond. Edward Dimond. Edward Dimond? Yeah. Which you covered on another episode when you did Haunted Marblehead. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Wait, that's a really cool. I also am curious how much land because I'm assuming it's been subdivided from the original land if they kept a whole thing of pigs and all that. I would assume that there was more land before all the other houses were like built around it. I have looked at Okay, this picture I have another picture. I'm going to go into the Historical Society and actually look at They have some digitized records or sorry, paper records that they were like, "You're welcome to come in and look through them." Which you absolutely should. Yeah. You have to start a book of the house, too, cuz like you're collecting all the information. 100%. And whenever you don't live there either by choice or you died and the next person's taking over the house to leave behind like a whole history of the house would be so plan. Okay, so this is a photo that the previous owners actually had in their home and it's of the street back in the day. It does look like everything was there as it is now.

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Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, these communities were small especially cuz it was a harbor and like a sea town and a lot of fishermen. Yeah. But all the It makes sense that the houses were closer together because it was such a good little community. But stay tuned. 19 rooms, too. It's just like that was such a Those rooms were small. It was like such a typical colonial where it's like Yeah. How does a family of five sleep in this one full-size bed? I don't know. That's so crazy. This is so cool. Cuz even now like it's not 19 rooms at all, but the rooms are small and they're petite, you know? Which think of every single room you have split in half. Oh, 100 like the the primary bedroom was probably four bedrooms. That's crazy. I know. Like bunk beds. Yeah. I guess it makes sense if you think of like a hotel people live usually like that. But now our views of houses are like very different. That you can yeah, move about a little bit more. Yeah. I am curious. We should have done some research. We'll have to I know we did this once and but I forget. Because

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when we'd been to Marblehead a few years ago, we were noticing that there were either like pineapples or eagles or fish on all of the plaques. And we had looked up what they all meant. So But I don't remember now. I asked Shoot, I asked our realtor and

Town symbols and lore

now I'm forgetting again, but the pineapples sometimes mean swingers in a certain places, but not in Marblehead. Yeah, we're not in Florida. No. It's not a whole town of swingers. I mean maybe. I haven't I have not been When you start inviting into that loofahs on people's side mirrors of their cars. Apparently that's a new thing. a new thing? Yeah, and then someone tried to say that if you have two Adirondack chairs outside that that's the new sign and I'm like, that's not the new sign because that's every house Well, that's every house in New England. That's typical. I know. If you have a house in New England, you have an Adirondack chair. So I feel like you can't You're getting like awfully defensive. Why why are you being so defensive? defensive cuz I'm remembering the conversation we had with some of our friends who were also equally as like what the hell? Listen. like saying like, oh, if you have a doorknob on your front door in New England, you're a swinger. And we're

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like, how is this a thing? if you're a swinger, you You know where to swing. You know how to find them. Yeah. Yeah. You're not like leaving secret codes. Like you have There's probably swinger clubs. Yeah. I wish that they had like a bat symbol that they'd put in the air. I mean, not that I'm not a swinger, but I think I would enjoy knowing that someone is about to have some fun. Like I see it and I'm like, oh. Someone somewhere is about to party. I think you can just think that that's happening all the time. I'll start to put it in my mind. Someone is swinging randomly people. right now. Someone is. Someone is. Will Smith and his wife. Rumors. This is not a celebrity gossip podcast. You would be good at a celebrity gossip podcast. I'd be like, wait, who's that? I don't know enough about everything. I only know like one sentence about five people and that's it. So, I'm not that good, but thanks though. We're wishing it. But, I am curious what some of those things mean because you see it most in Marblehead because Marblehead's also the oldest basically

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like town up here. Mhm. But, as you drive through like Ipswich and Beverly and Salem and Gloucester and like all those places, you do see a lot of those You see the historical plaques, but like they still carry on with like eagles or the fish. makes sense because it's like a fishing community. were a bunch of fishermen. But, I don't know what the pineapple is. Right. We had looked it up at some point. We'll ask. They're right side up pineapples, not upside down. Yeah, they're not upside down. Wait. What? I'm starting It's starting to come back into my mind. What is it? It was something about importing pineapples and it being a big thing. Weren't they imported from Hawaii? Perhaps. They must have. I mean, Hawaii is now where we get our pineapples. Let's see. Oh, interesting. Why do many old houses in the New England coast display pineapples? It signifies the house is open to guests to welcome the captain home. Oh, okay. So, not about But, then there's also the symbol of wealth and hospitality because pineapples were expensive and difficult to obtain. So, only the wealthy could afford to decorate their homes with them.

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Oh, but that's the a real pineapple. So, it was just like a status symbol? Both a status symbol, but then also being like, hey, won't you be my neighbor? Come on in. Have a cup of tea. welcoming. Okay. So, I understand why swingers would then utilize it for their Oh, yeah. Swinging. That makes sense. Come on in. Come on in, the water's warm. I was just about to say the waters are warm.

Salem Witch Trials overview

All right. Well, now that everybody's warmed up, let's get into another tale. Great. One that's a little bit darker. Oh. And a little less desirable. Okay. So, we mentioned Salem. So, let's let's venture back in our minds to 1692, when a group of young girls in Salem Village, Massachusetts, suddenly found themselves possessed by the devil. Mhm. And horrified, all of the community came together, and they were like, "What is the cause of this sudden affliction?" Witches. Witches. Yes. And they didn't have to question for long because soon these tween girls pointed the fingers at a few people and gave up some names. These were the people who brought evil

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upon them, people who were witches. They were devil worshipers. They were evil people conspiring against the community, posing as kind neighbors and mothers and family-oriented folk. But they were not. And these teenage girls believed in their dramatic acts that they were actually being possessed by these people. Mhm. So, hysteria spread and colonial Massachusetts was no longer safe for anyone, man or woman, because there were some men who were also convicted of witchcraft. Yeah. No one was safe. You could give these girls the wrong look and be accused. Yeah. Or you could own land as a teenager. Just Exactly. Neighbors. It started with bored teenagers basically like coming up with rumors to entertain themselves, but it ended up being a death wish for or not a death wish, a death sentence for so many people. Yeah. But then because of that, other people started to see how easy it was to just point the finger at someone and be like, "Oh, old man Willie, he's got some nice acreage. I'm going to point the finger at him and his wife,

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and then I'm going to take over their land once they're gone." Yep. Yeah. So, in the Salem witch trials, over 200 people were accused, 30 found guilty, and the infamous Salem witch trials, they're the ones that we think of when we think of witches, when we think of witch trials. And it makes sense because it was the deadliest witch hunt in history. the deadliest. It was the deliest. It was so much deli meat. It had some turkey, some ham. I don't know what what other deli meats are there. Pastrami. Salami. in the North Shore, so we we got to default to the roast beef. Yep. Kelly's is the next. Okay. But it was the deadliest witch hunt in colonial North America. Yeah. But the town of Salem, it leans into its dark history. If you've ever been, which Sabrina and I have been a bunch and now we live right there. Yep. The downtown basically centers on the lore and the history of these Puritan people, what it was like living in the late 1600s. And the Salem witch trials, to just put it into perspective, it's this really famous infamous time, but it actually

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only lasted from 1692 to 1693. So just over a year cuz it was February of '92 Right. to May of '93. Which when you think of it, I always imagine it being such a large time period, but it Yeah, that's Yeah, you would think it was like over a decade or something. Right. Well, because they 200 people Yeah. Basically, it was like they had 400 days. Every other day Someone was being accused of being accused of being a witch. So for years, the years that have followed the Salem witch trials, survivors and family members have sought justice and to absolve their family, their loved ones, themselves from the reputation of being a witch. Mhm. So while Salem had worked to rebuild their community after killing each other off, essentially, things were beginning to brew down south. Ooh. Nice choice of words. Thank you. Also a nice choice of sweatshirt. Thank you. Very witchy. The back of it says the moon made me do it. Also, one of our listeners, Living Luna Creations on Instagram, created these

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and sent them to us. I'll remove the crease of my baby bump so we can see the design better. She has so many incredible designs. They're so cool. And then on on the sleeve Don't forget Don't forget to look up. She also designs tattoos. So my next tattoo I want her to design. Yeah. Absolutely. A century after the Salem

The witches of Winsboro

witch trials, four people were once again accused of being witches. This or these are the witches of Winsboro. Ooh. The forgotten South Carolina witch trials. Which we first heard about from our listener Eric. Right. I think he told us about it on Campfire Stories or made of commented somewhere and was like, you should look into the witches of Winsboro. So You were like, got it, on it. Wrote it down, a year and a half later, here we are. The year was 1792. So this is exactly 100 years after the Salem witch trials. Cattle in Winsboro, South Carolina, suddenly became ill. And everyone's like, how peculiar. What could be wrong with these cattle? What is the mysterious illness that seems to befall our livestock?

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And it couldn't be something natural. No, no, disease, what's that? So the cattle, they said they weren't simply sick and dying. They actually were seemingly being attacked by the devil. Of course, naturally. Reports circled around the community and soon people themselves became the target. So not just the cattle being afflicted by something dark, but the people. Multiple residents were now battling with poltergeists, seemingly cursed by something that wished them harm. Some people said that, similar to the cattle, they were struck by illnesses and injuries. Okay. But others reported seeing others or themselves levitating. Like with no control, either. Like just being like held up. And many people talked about changing into animals. So basically being morphed into different animals. Wait, like the person themselves would have no control and all of a sudden transform into an animal. Yes. Yes. I mean, that's sick. It is pretty cool. Why would you complain? like, yeah, don't complain about that [ __ ]

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If you're sick, I get it. But like, yeah, like go roam the world as a freaking cat. Right. No, I cuz they were scared of their sudden power and also how how brave of them to just admit that that happened to them, too? Like what if people are like, well that's you cuz you're a witch. Cuz you're a witch. Well, it didn't happen like that. So. We We want to rewrite history. So soon rumors also spread that there were witches gathering in groups and they were communing with the devil and with evil. Mhm. There was at least one reported sighting of the devil. And so now it looks like I don't know. A goat. The devil. Handsome? Chiseled? Sven? Just like this. red and Has an eight-pack. Yeah, I was going to say like for sure like looks oiled up. Yeah. Shirtless. Has some little fangs, some dimples. Yeah. Oh, for sure has dimples. There's like a little glisten in his eye. Mhm. He's cute. I know. Why do I suddenly have a crush on the I'm like, ooh.

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Give us a minute. We conjured something. Something beautiful. Our first book. Screw fairy smut, we're making devil smut. I'm super down, actually. So with all of their friends and neighbors becoming possessed, the townspeople of Wind Borough, South Carolina, which by the way was a very small, kind of like farming-oriented community, Mhm. they became extra vigilant in observing one another because there was a traitor. Traitor to the group. They were like, who the hell is causing all of this destruction and evil around all of us? Who is the witch? It's so sad how quickly we turn upon one another. Right. I know. Why can't you just say it's ghosts and the devil? Why does it have to be a certain person who's like actively working with that? isn't strong enough to just come and show up by itself. He needs to be invited. To this is how it starts. You would stand up at the town hall and you would say that and then suddenly everyone's like, I am sad to admit I definitely would not

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have been accused to as a witch. You'd be the accuser. I don't think I would go that far, but I would definitely would sit back and not Well, listen, you might speculate and say something. myself and it's not even real. Give us your excuse right now as to why you did what you did. Unforgivable. Gosh, I'd enter to the grave. Witch. Right now, I like would love that accusation. I don't know what I would do. Honestly, truly, I think I'd probably be an accuser as well, cuz it was kind of like a self-preservation thing where you have to like save yourself. So, if I don't think I would do it unless someone came sniffing around me and then I'd very quickly It's like survival, you or me. Yeah, make that person look a little more guilty than I look. Yeah. I do think if I was accused though, I would just lean into it. Be like, I'm going to die anyway. Like, let's actually curse some people. It's like an Outlander. Yeah. And I feel like the lighting is getting so dark. It's starting It's going to rain. It's going to rain today.

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Oh, no. It's getting a little spooky. My windshield wipers are broken. We need to make a visor for your car. Just a little Let's construct some. Oh my god. Soon, a name came up. People thought they knew who exactly was doing all of this. Okay. Mary Egelman. Mary, described as a neat, tidy, and decent old lady, a description that would later be compared to Rebecca Nurse, who was hanged and killed in Salem. about that is that she's a neat and tidy old lady. Like, if she was a messy, unorganized old lady, isn't that even more damning, too? Because back in those days, as a woman, you're supposed to keep a tidy home. Right. But then maybe people were like, "Oh, she's too disheveled to actually know what's happening." I I don't know. I don't know. But Rebecca Nurse in Salem, she was one of the well-known people who were convicted of witchcraft and hanged. And she basically had the same exact description. So, these two people were quite similar. So, Mary Egelman, she was originally from Germany and supposedly she worked

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in herbalism and she had an interest as a healer. So she quite literally was trying to help people. Like she was doing these simple cures and making remedies from herbs and she just like understood how plant and nature work works. Yeah. And I guess that was suspicious. Sus. Could be yeah, extra sus, possible witch. How dare you understand the world around you? And how dare you try to help people? Yeah, gross. So there was a witness who saw Mary do the complete opposite from helping people. This witness watched this 70 to 80-year-old woman, she's older, we don't know exactly how old. Watched this older woman kill. With her bare hands? Yes, well with her magic hands. That sounded kind of perverted. This person claimed to see has magic hands for sure. oh 100%. That's why he bewitches all the all the women. This person claimed to see Mary killing one of their cows. They said they watched in horror as Mary

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caused the cow to levitate, then violently threw it back down on the ground and threw it on the ground with such force that when the cow hit the ground its neck broke and snapped and it

Accusations against Mary

died. Ow. And do you know who said that they saw this? Who? Mary's own son is the one that accused her. You [ __ ] You dirty little ungrateful Your son better not do that. Oh, well if he tattletales on mommy, witchcraft is going to be coming in full force. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. Locked away in my little jar of spells. You live there as a trinket now. And I'll also keep him in play. I'm not going to be allowed to tell bedtime stories, I don't think. My friend who um was my mentee in the Warner Brothers Writers Workshop has a son and she just posted a story today of her like over her baby telling him a story and she goes, "I'm the witch in the woods."

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I was like, yes. I've already started doing that with the books that people give. I I'm way too animated. There's too many voices. I'm either going to be the best storyteller or the scariest. Yeah. So, we'll see what happens. But, basically Mary's own son turned against her. His name was Adam Frey. Adam Frey, you're on our [ __ ] list. You are. And he claimed that basically his mom came and was like, "Hey, can I borrow your cow?" And he was like, "No." And so, she was like, and made it levitate and snapped its neck. Adam Frey, you [ __ ] You [ __ ] We are mad at you, Adam Frey. Yeah. Redeem yourself. own mother? And so, this wasn't an isolated event. So, yeah. I mean, this was rough because Adam was her son, Yeah. but more witnesses came forward. A Wenham woman named Winning Ha claimed that Mary had caused her to levitate in the air and then spit up balls of hair and pins. So, like pins and needles were like sticking out of this hairball. And

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then that she could feel all of the pins just like all around her back and her shoulders and her neck and she was in this horrible state of discomfort. that does sound very uncomfortable. Right. But, it's also like, why would she do this? Right. What's your beef with Mary? What did Mary What did you do to Mary? Yeah. Right. There were two sisters that said Mary caused them to have fits. This is so Salem witch trials here. very. Caused them to levitate out of the bed until they were against the ceiling and they would become stuck on the ceiling. And sometimes they could get themselves down, but then they would just kind of like wither down like one of the walls and then just like be shot up again. And as she tried to like climb down another wall, Were there ever any witnesses to these levitations or was it all hearsay? No, apparently there were. But, yeah. Can we trust them? Wink, wink.

The panther incident

Yeah. So, basically four very strong men had been witness to this. I don't know if they're relatives or friends or neighbors called into the house as like the girl screamed for help or whatever. But basically, it was said that Mary's power was so strong that four very strong men attempted to get

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these girls down from levitating against the ceiling and couldn't. So, it was just like whenever Mary's spell or magic, wow, dwindled, they could return to the ground, but otherwise like nothing could be done. No one could pull them down. Okay. Oh, and also apparently this happened multiple times to these girls, so it wasn't just one event. Okay. Interesting. Another townsperson named Isaac Collins said that Mary actually turned him into a horse, mounted him, and then rode him to a quote grand convention of witches where he, in his horse form, looked on at the group of witches and realized that the devil himself was present during this gathering. This reminds me so much of the movie The Witch, which terrified me as a child. The witch? turn Didn't she turn the kid into a mouse? Oh, oh, oh, oh. The Roald Dahl The Witches? Oh, witches. Yes, yeah. Yeah, not the witch. I was like, I think we're like 23 when that came out. Yeah, yeah. Witches. Yeah. And they just did a remake and Anne Hathaway was Yeah, which I couldn't watch. Yeah, she turned them into mice.

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Yeah, scary. It is scary. So, he said that while he was in his horse form, Mary rode him up to the devil. And the devil complimented Mary. He was like, "Oh my gosh, what a fine new horse you have there, Mary." And Mary replied with, "Ah, this is that rascal Collins." Listen, I know that this is all hearsay and conjecture and not true, but I wish that there was someone present day doing this. Like that is sick. I wish I could do this. Yeah, me too. It's just a group of incredibly creative minds coming together to just spin wild tales. Right. There's a lot of creativity happening here. Yes. I just saw an Instagram of there was this like witch retreat in Europe where I think it was a group of like 20 women and you can like buy a ticket and go and they stay in a castle and spend an entire week doing witchcraft and practices and rituals, and it was very meditative. It was almost like a healing powerful women

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retreat, yeah, but like surrounding witchcraft, and this woman I I think it was targeted to me, of course it was, but this woman was saying that they were doing this ritual outdoors, and they were all standing in a circle, and they had lit candles, and it was a really, really windy day. Mhm. And the entire ritual, the candles stayed lit the entire time. And then the second they like let go of their hands, the candles blew out. Oh my god. Ooh, that gives me chills. Yeah. The power of women. Mhm. The power of humans and energy and working together. Right. I would love to go on that retreat. Yeah. So, Isaac Collins, the guy who was ridden as a horse in front of the devil, he also testified that he once went out deer hunting, and he tried several times to shoot his rifle at this deer, but every single time he tried to shoot, the rifle would not go off. So, he was like, "Okay, either my rifle's faulty or" he said, he also thought perhaps there were some witchcraft happening. So, his

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mind's already on Yeah. there's magic. Yeah. So, he unloads his rifle, and he replaces it with this sliver of silver. And then he shoots his gun at the deer once more, but as his gun goes off, so it does successfully go off, the deer disappears. And in place of the deer is this big black cat. It's like a panther. And it's struck by the sliver of silver in its front leg, and it just like limps away injured. Two days later, Isaac is down by the stream gathering some water, and Mary Ingleman comes up to him, and she has her arm in a sling, the same arm that would be the front leg of that panther, of that black cat. And she says, "You're to blame for my injury and

Tormented and accused

I will not forget this." Interesting. So, I think that happened prior to Isaac being turned into a horse and being paraded around. So, she turned him into a horse, presumably as revenge. As punishment, yes. So, earlier Mary's

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own son turned against her and now Mary's grandson is also Adam's I think it's Adam's son. Mhm. Bad branch of the of the family line. Mary's grandson had a similar story about being turned into a horse. Interesting. time, instead of being paraded in front of the devil, Mary kindly took him into an apple orchard. Huh. But, as with his big horse head, he goes to grab and pluck an apple. Mary strikes him very violently on the head and injures him. What the heck? I want to believe that like Adam and his son were in danger or at risk of being accused and to Mary with them came up with this plan of like, I will take the fall. Like, accuse me. It would be nice if that were the truth. it's not, but I'm rewriting history in my own head. Yeah, she didn't This was complete backstabbing. So, obviously these are pretty damning testimonies against Mary. There's more than one witness. Yeah. Uh a lot of what people had said that they were experiencing, these stories

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are in line with that. They back them up. So, it sounds like Mary had a lot of explaining to do. Could she convince people that she was not a witch? But, what we've learned from the Salem witch trials 100 year prior, there was very little you could do to convince people of your innocence. And the way that you did was by dying. Like, they would see if you sunk with an anchor or weight, right? And then it's like, if they if they drown, then they're a witch. And it's like, well, now they're or if they drown, they are not a witch. Right. God forbid you were accused of being a witch in Iceland, you would just end up at the bottom of a lake. Yeah. So, yeah, there was very little that could be done to convince others that you were not a witch. Basically, being called a witch was being as good as dead in many of these cases. But for Mary, she was with company. For Mary Ingleman and three others were accused of witchcraft. It wasn't her alone. Mhm. The others were said to have practiced hypnosis and other magic and to also aid Mary. So Mary was like said to be the strongest, said to be the one orchestrating Yeah, she was the head witch. She was orchestrating the whole

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thing. But these other three people were also contributing and doing some stuff on their own as well. So accounts do vary as to whether it was three or four people, but we do know that Mary Ingleman, Hending Smith, and his wife Sally Smith were three of the accused. The fourth person that is mentioned doesn't seem to have a name in any of the articles. Interesting. Okay. So maybe it was just three, but a lot of people say it was four. Right. And I'm also sure there are a lot of other accusations, but maybe these were like the only ones that it went further. Yeah, perhaps. Yeah. So this group of people, they were tried for their crimes, but they were not brought in front of a judge like in Salem. These people were actually tried illegally by a self-selected judge and jury. Self-selected. Self- So basically the townspeople were like, "I volunteer as judge. Well, I'll be jury member number two. Okay. I'll be number seven. So it's a game of murder. What What's that game that we played? Yes. And then it's probably the people who actually already think that they're

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guilty that are self-volunteering. 100%. Yeah. Exactly. All of these four three to four people were marched out to

Illegal trial and torture

a farm about 5 miles south of the town of Winsboro into the barn of Mr. Thomas Hill. Mr. Thomas Hill, he was the self-elected judge. He was acting as the judge. People did respect him. He had a lot of land. He was a like notable farmer. Also, he was a slave owner. Mhm. So I like how he also is like, "I I'll to be the judge, but you all need to come to me. Yeah, he's just exercising his power. Come to my barn. So, they're all brought into the barn and person after person or like {quote} "victim" after victim comes forward to speak about what they endured at the hands of these people and especially at the hands of Mary. And what could these four people say in return? Right, nothing. Nothing. They also didn't even know what these people were going to say, right? Like Right. I mean, it reminds me of the Salem witch trials where people who were

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accused had never even met the people who were accusing them Right. until the day that they were being confronted. Right. You're like, who the hell are you? I've never met you. I've quite literally never How do you know my name? Right. So, nothing they could say or do would help against the multiple lies that were spun by all of these {quote} "victims" and witnesses and people that they This was also a small community. So, I mean, Mary's own family turned against her. So, a lot of times like unlike in Salem, these were people that they thought were their neighbors, their friends, their community. Yeah. Very sad. So, this entire group that is now on trial at Mr. Hill's barn, they're found guilty. The majority of the wrongdoings were believed to have been spearheaded by Mary Ingleman, but they were all punished the same. They were punished by flogging and having the soles of their feet burned off. Holy [ __ ] Yeah. There was an article They were tortured. Yes. And there was also I only saw this in one article, so I I didn't

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like really take it as something that truly happened, but I did hear that there were some like other torture techniques used and that actually like there was an attempt at maybe hanging Mary that just failed. But I don't know. I think it was it was mostly flogging and burning of feet. like waterboarding? Oh, I don't know. I thought it was kind of like being whipped, but but like with a board. It might be. I'm I'm see. Yeah, whipped. Okay. Yeah. So, there's an article in the South Carolina Gazette that reported on some of the {quote} "punishments" and it read, "A number of wretches have beaten and abused a man about 80 years old and two women who both exceeded that age." Okay, so this one is saying that basically that Mary and Sarah were over the ages of 80. Jeez. So they're elderly people. Yeah. "They happened to possess more sense than their neighbors and were otherwise strikingly distinguished from them by their inoffensive conduct and purity of their morals. These remarkable singularities gave rise to a pretended belief that they were the agents of the devil, that they were guilty of the sin of witchcraft, and that they were

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treated accordingly." So basically that they were aging better than other people? I guess and just like stuck to their morals and like weren't overly influenced by others and like didn't say "No, I'm not a witch." They were just like What happened to respect your elders? I don't know, but I also This is like my trauma response coming out. I hate the phrase respect your elders because I feel like it was only used by adults who were trying to exert their power on you in a negative way. parents said that all the time. Yeah, there were plenty of people in my community and at church that were like "You have to respect your elders." And I'm like "I'll respect you when you respect me." I think the distinction is like there are a lot of cultures and people who like when your parents or the older generations are getting old, you take care of them and you bring them in and you respect them in the sense that like you show them love and honor them and understand that they've lived life in a much longer way rather than respect them and do everything they say. I think that's the

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distinction. Yeah, it's not supposed to be this authority Right. driven sort of phrase, but it it's used that way by the people who want authority. Yeah. So it says, "After whipping them in the most shocking manner, hot coals were applied to their extremities till signs of life were scarcely discernible." So basically they were tortured until they were near dead. Oh, gosh. So, their feet were quite literally burned until the soles were melted off, like till Ugh. Yeah, disgusting. So, they couldn't walk away. So, after they were released from their punishment, half dead and unable to walk, Mary and the others were able to crawl off of the hill farm. But, poor Sally Smith, she didn't get that far. Another man approached her. She's half dead. She's crawling for her life. She's already been tortured all night. Another man finds her as she's like trying to crawl off of this property. He knocks her to the ground. He places a heavy log across her neck. And she's old. Oh my god. so weak. And she's so injured that she

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couldn't do anything. So, she just remained there knocked down on the ground weighed down by a log all night until at some point the next day someone came and found her and rescued her. So, she's still alive. All of them are still alive. All of them survived. survive that. I would want I know. Like, being tortured to the brink of death is so much worse than just being executed Yeah. in my mind. I mean, all of it's awful,

Seeking legal justice

but like They're burned. They're marked by their neighbors, but they survived. All of the accused witches survived. But, it's like for what? Like, they're in their community and their community is Just like How do you ever go back to life normally? You can't. So, they all kept their lives, but Mary was not happy with what happened. Me, neither. Right. But, Mary's also she's not just like, "Oh, I'm upset by what happened. I'm going to go somewhere else and try to like escape this." She stays within the community and she's like, "No, you guys will pay for this." So, brave Mary took all of the

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persecutors that did this to them to court. So, she was like, "You're going to give me a legal Yeah, you're going to take me to the illegal court. I'm going to take you to the real [ __ ] legal court, man. And you're going to go down for this." So, she one one one brings each person to trial. them. She serves them. And she's seeking legal redress for her injuries. She did win She didn't win as many of the cases as she should have. Obviously, everyone should have been punished for what they did. But she did win one of the cases, an aggravated assault charge against the prosecutor John Crossland, who I don't know how much money this was, but it doesn't feel like enough. He His punishment was basically to pay her £5. But instead, he skipped town. And that's kind of what happened to a lot of them. So, most people didn't actually have to do anything at all cuz they just skipped town or they were just given like a light slap on the wrist. Jeez. So, Mary and the others certainly did not receive the justice that they so sought and deserved.

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But now the question stands as to why this happened. Why 100 years after the witch trials, and years after America gained its independence and we're supposed to be like building as a new country, did this community convince themselves that they were shapeshifting, that they were levitating, that they were coughing up needles? Is there an answer? Well, there's a theory. And it's similar to the theory that came up in Salem where it was like, "Oh, was it moldy bread?" And they were like it was food poisoned. Yes. So, there is this a theory that I think in terms of the discussions with Salem, it's kind of believed that it actually isn't the case that there was like moldy bread, that it was just like kind of mass hysteria. And boredom. And boredom. But this theory that essentially there was this moldy bread, that these people had been poisoned by the fungus, it does resurface when examining the Winsboro, South Carolina witch trials. And it's specifically the ergo or ergot fungus. It grows on grains. It can make you trip balls. It's basically like taking LSD. And so people were presuming or wondering if perhaps this small

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community, the small farming community who all ate from the same stash, were potentially suffering from this poisoning and the these hallucinations. Sure. I feel like that is giving them much credit in a way. Like it's excusing it in a way that if that's the case, wouldn't way more people have been levitating or hallucinating and having these experiences? Cuz everyone ate bread. Right. There was no gluten intolerance. Right. If there was, they didn't know what it was. But like I think we just altered the the wheat plants so much genetically in America that now it it exists way more than it ever did. But then also like the cows were getting sick. Like clearly there's something maybe there was just something in the harvest or like people or like an illness that was being spread. Or in the water. Or in the water. I mean people were like pooping in streams. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The water resources were not clean. Yeah. So people were like could this have just been a misunderstanding or was this poisoning or was this boredom or was this hysteria? What the hell was it? It was wrong. That's all

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we need to know. Incorrect.

Theories behind hysteria

So one of the other theories that came up was basically just talking about the different cultures of the community. So a lot of this community was of Swiss and German origins. But some of them were not. At the time the German Seventh Day Baptist Brethren religious movement had commonly practiced hands-on faith healing. So it does kind of sound a bit like what Mary Engelman was doing before. Like using herbalism and healing and maybe like some meditation. that type of similar to that. Yeah. Certain prayers were like your your body like things are involved. And so it was pondered. Like could these non-German neighbors, these non-Swiss neighbors who weren't a part of this religion or this culture, could they be frightened by such practices? It was just a little too different from what they were used to and maybe this is what triggered that. And then people just got caught up in the the wave of accusations. Well, I mean that's in Europe a lot of witchcraft originated from religious differences. Yeah. Protestants versus Puritans.

44:00

And yeah. People trying to stray from what was socially acceptable. I know. was an easy way to try to like, I guess, battle and infiltrate the people that you thought were wrong. Yeah. And got the religion wrong. Also, this is such a sad tangent, but one of the things that is going around on social media is for women specifically being asked the question, "Would you rather be alone in the woods with a bear or with a man?" Bear. Right. That's what everyone says, cuz it's on what man. Right, but if you don't know what man. If it's a stranger, then bear for sure. Then bear. Yeah. Cuz it makes sense, because Yeah. Because of a lot of we could rattle off 15 reasons right now. Yeah. But basically the point is, when a lot of men are asked that question, they don't choose the bear. And they're confused about why women would choose the bear. And someone brought up I saw a video the other day where they're like, "Literally God chooses the bear." And there's an actual part of the Bible. It's not specific about women, it's just specific about Like people.

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that discusses, "If you had to choose between the dangers of a bear and wildlife and unpredictable nature versus a man who could be spited, Mhm. who could come with all of this extra emotion, you should always choose The animal. The bear. Huh. That is interesting. I guess we are religious after all. Yeah. I agree with that part of the Bible.

Hauntings and legacy

So, after the trials, the superstitions around witchcraft, it did die down a little bit. There were moments where things in the area did circulate again. Like not far from Winsboro, a couple decades later, there was a woman named Powers who was accused of turning a girl into a horse and then riding her into town and into the shops and and things like that. Jeez. But in terms of the town of Winsboro, it started to die down and it People were still angry. Mhm. Mary was still trying to like fight for justice. Yeah. And it wasn't the safest place, but there was a Baptist minister who gave a speech on why witches were not like

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basically trying to help Mary out. Okay. And he did it in kind of this like silly way where he like held this congregation, like held this mass. And he was like, "Guys, witches are not going to be old and ugly. If you have the opportunity to use magic, why the hell would anyone here choose to look the way they do?" Like he was basically like roasting everyone. Right. And he's like, "Why don't you look to the girls that are like young and pretty and and spoil all the all the boys?" And get them all excited. Yes. Yeah, so luckily that didn't turn into a witch hunt for like all the Oh, [ __ ] you're right. Let's execute the young woman. Yeah, um but people did have a good chuckle and then start to be like, "Oh, [ __ ] Yeah, maybe. Maybe we should think about this cuz what we're saying and the powers and all of those choices don't really make sense." So, apparently his speech did help the town move on from their witchcraft hysteria. Okay. As the years rolled on, people stopped

47:00

blaming witchcraft and they were no longer pointing fingers at their neighbors in an attempt to take over their land or just to have a bit of drama. But some of the accused are not so satisfied with their ending. Mary, for one, is still seeking justice. [ __ ] yeah, Mary. Well, but also sad. I know. Mary Engelman's house was torn down in the early 1970s, so it actually did stand for like 300 some years. While it was still erected, so it it hasn't been around for 50 some years. But when it was, people said that they would catch glimpses of her around the house. And on the chimney was a rune. It was like a a German version of a rune that was for fertility and good fortune and creative power. And you know, I'm sure a lot of that was a part of Mary and her personality, but she didn't get quite good fortune with being accused of being a witch. Yeah. But people do say that her spirit remains on the grounds. Onlookers have reported strange lights and sounds coming from the property. And then not far away is the Fairfield County

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Courthouse. And she's trying to take people to court. Still? Yes. So it is said to be the host of the spirit of Mary Englemann who waits for justice to be served for the wretched crimes perpetrated against her and the others that night in the barn. I also like to think that she's like watching all these trials happen and is becoming a lawyer as a ghost and taking the the spiritual forms of the ghosts. She's whispering in the judge's ear, too. Yeah. Object. That's a tort. I don't know. Legal terms. Legal Legal terms. Her spirit has been seen time to time wandering the halls and also sitting on the steps of the courthouse. So she's around. All right. 100 years after the Salem witch trials, 16 years after the US independence, this small farming town likely seemed like a safe place to put down roots and live a quiet peaceful life. Unfortunately for a handful of people, that was far from the truth. But perhaps

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one day Mary Englemann and the others will receive the justice they so deserve. Justice for the witches of Windsor. Mhm.

Listener story: Witch wars

I have such a mixed feeling of like I'm glad that they survived, but I'm almost I just think about the pain that they had to go through and the feeling of that. Their souls were burned off. I mean, I have parents that are older. I have Yeah. grandparents that are older and like people when they fall, like it's a trip to the emergency room. I can't imagine being whipped and knocked down and an 80-year-old having to crawl away with their souls and their feet burned off, too. Yes. Like Mary's family's not going to go care for her after they They were the ones accusing her. Right. No one's there to help, you know, her in her recovery. Yeah. And even like infections, too. I can't believe that that I mean, maybe it did come into play, but apparently Mary lived to be quite old. Cuz she's a witch. Because she's a witch. Because she's magical and people just couldn't handle the strength and

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kindness of a woman like Mary. Something about Mary. Something about Mary. That's what the movie is actually based off of. Wow, that's really sad and tragic. I mean, every witch trial story is, you know, follows a very similar pattern. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Justice for the witches. Justice. Now it's such a compliment, I feel, to be called a witch. I know. It is, 100%. Yeah. Well, we have a listener story from a witch, from our listener Stevie, and it is called Witch Wars. I won. Oh, [ __ ] Hi ladies. I think I'm in the 2021 episodes, but I've been listening every night, so I'm almost catching up. Also, my husband is in the Air Force and he got stationed in England, and on the 8-hour flight over here, guess who kept me entertained because I knew I wouldn't sleep? You two, the best Gus and Eddy's in the world. Thanks. So, I've been sitting on this story for a while because it's more witchy than paranormal, but I felt like it would be something you're interested in hearing. In February of 2022, I finally found the

51:00

strength to leave my extremely abusive marriage. Trigger warning, this story does involve abuse and some violence. Okay. I remember that morning. He was screaming and screaming at me, continuing a pill and alcohol binge from the night before while he also screamed at me. I was having a cigarette and I felt it, a snap in my head, like a synapse that just clicked like a mechanical pencil ready to write. And I don't remember what I said to him in that moment, but maybe I referenced the iconic monologue from Gone Girl. I packed my [ __ ] I grabbed my cat, I got in my car and drove to my dad's house. My saint of a loving father helped me get a lawyer and gave me a safe space to live. And eventually he helped me get my own apartment. Literally, I cannot thank him enough. So, this apartment was amazing. It was one of two complexes in the small town I lived in and one of those renovated old mills that got turned into units. And I was the first person to live in this unit that I got. So, I restarted my life and I found a new job. And it was just working in a

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grocery store deli. The deliest. Deli meat. The deliest. Prosciutto. During this time, I joined the dating app Hinge and I met my then boyfriend, now husband, Chris. He's amazing and I could write a book about how we're actually literally soulmates, but that's for another time. Hinge, the app that's meant to be deleted. Yeah. I know. There was a commercial recently about how Hinge and like dating apps are losing so many users cuz it's working. Yeah, that's good. bad for them, for their business. Oh. Well, I I guess for Hinge it's part of their business model, right? Or I guess like their marketing, but Yeah. I met Brian on Hinge and we have a lot of friends that are getting married this year that also met their significant others on Hinge. There's nothing wrong with meeting people on dating apps. No. I worked the evening shifts. Normally, I would get off at 11:00 and drive home and stop at the gas station for some two-buck chuck and a pack of cigs. And I got to recognizing some of the people at the gas station. It was a small southern town and I liked the camaraderie of late-night workers. I would get my stuff, go home, and finally drift to sleep. But sadly, I really grew

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to hate that job and started to hate my coworkers. There was borderline sexual harassment going on and insufferable [ __ ] around me all the time and it was driving me nuts. So, I found out there was another store closer to my apartment with an opportunity in the produce department. I'd worked produce for years, so I decided to apply and put in for a transfer. I successfully transferred and began my work. On my first day, my manager gave me a small tour. And as she introduced me to the bakery workers, one of them seemed familiar. He was a young guy with shockingly blue eyes and an honestly gorgeous mane of sunlight blonde hair. Is this the devil? Ken doll? Well, where this is going is interesting. I knew him from somewhere, but I couldn't put my finger on it. And so, for the sake of privacy, we'll call him Andy. I would run into Andy in the smoking section, and eventually we got to talking. He was sweet and incredibly smart, worked very hard, and I really enjoyed having a smoke and conversation with him. We had a lot in common, gaming, cooking, and he was also interested in witchy stuff. We would

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take lunch together most days, and it was all seemingly harmless. He never looked at me weird or touched me or said anything weird, we just talked. And one day he gifted me a gorgeous quartz stone. He finally asked me for my number, and this was the first time I got a sign of feelings on his part. But, I saw him as such a good friend that I obliged. Big mistake. Huge. Man, but he gave a quartz crystal. He's a crystal girly. Yeah, witchy. This also reminds me of Baby Reindeer. It started Which when you first told me about Baby Reindeer, I was like, I don't think I'd like that. And then I I saw like a 2-minute segment of it, and I was like, I need to watch this. Have you started it? No, not yet. Cuz it's not something Brian would like. So, it's going to it's probably going to be a maternity binge. Yeah, yeah. It's easy to binge. Yeah. It started immediately. The texts were relentless. He saw me as his girlfriend already and started referring to me as his girlfriend. But, I was already with my boyfriend Chris. That's not good. No. Every alarm bell sounding off.

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Chris lived 2 hours apart at the time from me, so despite having a boyfriend, we weren't always together. I was also still legally married, so I couldn't tell anyone I was in a relationship or I risk compromising the upper hand I had in my divorce. But, I set boundaries, or I tried to, with Andy. I said no to all of his advances. I kept saying no, no, no, no, you can't come over. No, I don't want to date you. No, you can't kiss me. But, he wouldn't stop. And at this point we had forged a friendship, and I was so sad that we couldn't just be friends. Mhm. I kept working at that store, but it got to a point where I felt unsafe. His friends were coming in and staring at me from across the department. Oh my god. And his mother started texting me. He had given her my number. I was afraid to leave my apartment. That is so inappropriate. I will never understand that when parents try to involve themselves in something like that. Like do not see the pattern of your own child. Right. Yeah. I spent most nights at my dad's house and I brought my cat with me. And I finally lost it when he texted

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me that he had originally seen me at the gas station where I used to stop late at night. He worked there and suddenly I remembered him. I had seen him there one night after I had a particularly bad shift. He was stocking shelves and had said hello to me. I waved, grabbed my stuff, and left. But then that's what I realized, that's why I remembered those impossibly blue eyes. But I had only ever gone in there in my work uniform, meaning Andy switched jobs to try to find me. Oh my god. And I had transferred myself to the same store. He was stalking me before I even knew who he was. I felt so unsafe I quit my job and Chris moved us into an apartment together 200 miles away in Charlotte. Wow. I finally felt safe, but then the bad luck started. It was relentless, like the universe was trying to break us. First, someone stole the catalytic converter out from under my car, $1,400 to fix it. Then I found out that I was pregnant. Very quickly after finding out, like within a week finding out, I had to go to the hospital only to sadly find out we were losing the baby.

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On the way to meet me at the hospital, Chris got into a car accident. Oh my god. As we were healing from this miscarriage, we both got into another car accident which totaled my recently fixed car. Our rental cars both broke down after this. We got a fly infestation at the apartment which had no real origin. you've been cursed. You've been hexed for sure. Our cat got fleas. We began to see a lot of cockroaches. Chris got let go from his head chef job. This was before the Air Force. And it was just constantly being beat down. Finally, we made it out to dinner one night to try to cheer ourselves up, and Chris looked at me. He knew I was a witch, and he asked me with bleary eyes, "Can you please do something?" I'd already been planning on doing something, but his plea sounded so defeated, yet so strong, and I asked if he wanted to be involved. He said yes. He's what I like to call a skeptical atheist, but he sat in my circle with me as I worked. His energy melted with mine perfectly, and I did a ritual. As I was ending that ritual, I suddenly felt this pull in my gut. Something was screaming

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at me. So, I grabbed that beautiful quartz that Andy had given me. I grabbed a hammer, ran out to the back porch, and in one swift move, I shattered that son of a [ __ ] I swept the shards right into the North Carolina night, and I felt that same snap from when I had left my ex. I knew in that moment we were free. Our luck began to change all for the better, and amazing things had began to happen. I realized that my gut had been telling me that Andy had cursed that quartz, and it was the reason we were going through hell. Oh my gosh. Andy literally sent me a Facebook message after that. I left it on red. It was nothing significant, but I think he knew that I had broken the curse. Untethered. Since then, Chris had started a wonderful career in the Air Force. Our wedding was more than I could ever have asked for. Our cat Elliot did unfortunately pass away, but he was 16 years old and gave us so much love and joy, and we celebrate him in every way we can. We now live in England, and I found a group of witchy ladies here that I really love, and we actually live in a house. Holy [ __ ] I know, but it feels

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like a home. Aw. Always listen to your gut, and if someone makes you uncomfortable, tell as many people as you can. [ __ ] politeness, call out that behavior, and don't accept rocks from weird people, no matter how pretty those rocks are. Love you both. Please come to England for a live show. Stevie. I feel like we accept rocks from weird people all the time, cuz we're weird, everyone else is weird around us, and we love giving and accepting crystals. But, we accept them from our community, which I feel like we've fostered such a beautiful community that we trust. We all love the strange. And we are a little strange. you, weirdos. Yes. You strange little freaks. You little freaks. You freaky freakies. Wow. Oh my gosh. Well, I'm so glad that she got out of all of those bad situations that she was in, but my god, how scary to be to be like a spiritually and physically stalked. I know. And the fact that it dated back to before she even knew him. Very Joe Goldberg. It's so sad. It is. But I'm also so proud of you, Stevie,

1:00:00

and so like in awe of you for removing yourself from a horrible situation, [ __ ] banishing this curse from someone who is dangerous and not cool. He's the uncoolest. He's the most uncool. Um, and you're a badass witch, and we love you. Yeah. And to put in all that effort, too, to protect yourself and your family, and that's great. Yeah. And how amazing to have now like a little coven around you. I know. That's awesome. We'll come to your house and do our witchy retreat. We won't bring you crystals unless you think that we're Unless you trust us. Not weird. We'll bring you so many pretty rocks. Pebbles from the beach. Sea glass from Marblehead. Yes. If you have ghost stories, if you are a witch and have had witch wars, or if you have any anything paranormal or odd or unusual, please email them to us at twogirlsoneghostpodcast@gmail.com. That is in the YouTube video right here below us, and it is also linked on everything and in the show notes. If you

1:01:00

can't find it, listen, we held your hand as much as we could. And Sven is holding ours. Wow, we were very in sync there. in sync. It's love. Do you love me? Of course I do. Okay, cool. I love you, too. I'll give you pretty crystals. Thank you. It's like penguins, giving the penguins that they love rocks. Yeah. We give each other rocks. Yes. You can join us on Patreon if you're interested in ad-free, one week early episodes, extra episodes every single month, and extra ghost stories every Tuesday night live on Campfire Stories, which is hosted on Patreon. We also have the club, discounts on merch, exclusive merch, and quite a bit more. Should we give Sven a pedicure? Or I mean a manicure? The tiniest little manicure? It'd be kind of cute. I feel like it's just the tiniest little marker mark. Let's do it. Paint his nails. We'll change it up. Thank you to our editor Jamie Ryan, who edits and produces our audio and video every week. We would be significantly

1:02:00

worse of a podcast without you. If you can believe that. We love you all. And we will See you. See you. I forgot to speak. That's okay. See you on the other side. Very soon.