PARANORMAL MURDER MYSTERY | Christopher Case & Haunted Gunter Hotel with @The Generation Why Podcast

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Hello spooky friends. Hello. This is Two Girls, One Ghost. Two Girls, One Ghost. And we're more than two girls, one ghost. This week, we also are joined by Justin from Generation Y. We had an amazing conversation where we talked about our beliefs in the paranormal. And then Justin shared this wild story with us that we had never heard of. And I'm shocked we haven't heard of it. And then we told Justin a story about a murder, a mystery, and a haunting at an infamous hotel in San Antonio, Texas. So, we're really excited to share this with you. This episode is coming out both on our feed and on the Generation Y feed, but we highly recommend checking out Generation Y wherever you listen to podcasts. And we hope you enjoy this episode.

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Yeah. Yeah. Very spooky. It's very spooky. It's very ominous outside. Dark and gray and mysterious. Perfect setting for spooky stories. How are you doing, Justin? I'm doing good. It's uh sunny and probably going to be 80° here today. Okay. Well, [ __ ] you, dragging. You guys have been doing this for a while. I just wanted like for my listeners uh if they haven't heard of you, if they don't listen to other things because you know there's people that either listen to just one podcast or they have 50 that they're subscribed

most haunted pod in america

to. Totally. So could you guys introduce yourselves real quick? Like how long you've been around, what you guys covered? Sure. So we are I'm Sabrina. That's Karen. And we are two girls, one goes podcast and Oh no. Did Sabrina

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freeze for you too? Yes. See, we're the most haunted podcast in America. Immediately cursed. We just got done telling you, Justin, we break all equipment, even if we're not in the same room. Literally, as I was saying that we're the most haunted podcast and people might get haunted. My video just crashed. Okay. Well, you froze before that, Sabrina. You said we're two girls, one ghost podcast, and then you were gone. Great start. Okay, perfect. Well, I was saying that we are the most haunted podcast in America, and by listening, you might get haunted, but I guess we might be haunted, too. So, now I'm going to pass it over to you, Krin. You tell the rest. Okay. Well, we've been doing this for 8 years, which is pretty wild. Um, well, we're coming up on 8 years, and it's a very long time, but I would say don't let our name confuse you. We're one, not a porno, and two, we don't only cover ghost stories. We

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obviously love all of the paranormal, all of the macob. And so we're really just more of like a a mystery spooky podcast where we do researched episodes and figure out kind of like why places are haunted or we at least attempt to theorize why they're haunted. And then each week we also have an episode that we title encounters where we read listener stories of real life paranormal encounters. And also, we might not be a porno, but we do love covering stories where people have dabbled in some sexual encounters with ghosts. Have you heard of that, Justin? Have you heard of people having sex with ghosts? Um, I have not, but when I grew up, there was a movie called The Entity, and it wasn't consensual. It was, you know, horrible. But that movie scared the [ __ ] out of me. That's based on a real story. Yeah. I remember there was a woman who made the tabloids a few years ago. She

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was engaged, I think. And her fiance came back and Yeah. to a human. She started having sexual relations with a spirit that lived in her apartment. And her fianceé came home one day and like looked up at their apartment windows and saw the shadow of a man in in their unit and like ran up to confront them. There was no one there because it was a ghost. So, There you go. People do poodle with the spirit world consensually. I've listened to your guys' podcast and you do a very good job and I've listened to other YouTubers and whatnot and I am like the biggest skeptic. I have like no I don't even believe an Epsom salt in the bath actually makes a difference. That's like how skeptical I am. I know. You know, your muscles have never relaxed with some nice Epsom salt. I just think it's hot water and it makes

Justin's paranormal encounter

you relax. Okay. Okay. But have you had any encounters that you've maybe questioned that have challenged your

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skepticism? I have one encounter at least that I have no explanation for. Okay, let's hear it. My uh grandfather died when I was I don't know in high school and my grandmother continued living on after his death. And I would walk into the room and she'd be talking to somebody and I would be like, "Were you talking to me? I was in the other room. I didn't hear you." And she'd be like, "No, no, no. I was just talking to the TV." I'm like, "TV's not on." So didn't know who she was talking to. And I have no fear of the dark, but at night I would hear noises like people walking around. And I lived in the basement for a while uh in high school of my grandmother's house. Much much later on I moved out, whatever. My mom goes on this long trip with my grandmother and they say, "Can you watch the house while we're gone?" So I go there and the upstairs is where my

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grandmother lived. You know, master bedroom, hallway, bathroom, whatever. I'm there. I got to go to the bathroom. So, I go to the master bathroom where my grandfather and grandmother spent all their time. My grandmother's name is Ellen. And I go in there. I'm standing there taking a whiz. And I hear my grandfather's voice say, "Ellen, is that you?" It wasn't a I heard a noise. I heard a sound. I heard and recognized his voice asking Ellen, "Is that you?" And I am 20 something years old now. Absolutely not a kid. And I pinched off and ran out of that house faster than you could imagine. There's nothing worse than being like pants down encountering the ghosts. Yeah. you know, and so when you talk about haunted houses and talk about hauntings and stuff, you know, it's like, oh, I'm

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going to tell you all about this murder that happened and how there's this, you know, little girl from 1920s in a white dress and everyone thinks about that when they're in the house and then maybe you see this white thing ran across the room or something. I'm standing there going to the bathroom, not thinking about my grandfather. There was no kind of uh I guess subliminal thought there. And that is my only real like I have no explanation for this. I have no idea. Well, we we do. Uh it was your grandfather's spirit. Wow. Okay. But riddle me this. You experienced something like that, but you don't believe in the paranormal. So So can you bridge the gap for me there? I mean, one incident, one thing out of millions of times I've been on ghost tours, I've been to haunted places. One moment in my life, two

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seconds, but the rest of my life is just boring, regular. You know, the ratio there, it's like if I had a lot more experiences, I would probably weigh it, you know, in the other direction. But I just Okay. Well, we we're going to have to take you on a paranormal investigation with us. Yeah. And lock you in a room. No, I'm kidding. We won't do that. But you're going to be the errand to our Zach. We're like, "Go into this coffin and we're going to lock you lock you away for 9 hours and I'll go hide in my car." And I would do it. I I personally I'd be like, "Oh, that'd be kind of quiet and bug me for a while." your version of a like sensory deprivation tank. Yeah. We'll put some Epsom salts in. Yeah. You'll make me a believer in a lot of things by the end of it. Oh my gosh. Well, I feel like you're not alone in this boat of you've had an experience and yet you're still a skeptic. Tell us

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about Generation Y and the podcast and what you cover and where people can find you. And then we have some ghost stories

Generation Why Podcast

that we're both going to share with each other. Yes. Yes, for anyone that hasn't heard of Generation Y, I'm sorry. We started in 2012. I had uh been called for jury duty for a first-degree murder trial and jury selection was on a Monday morning and I found a guy guilty and put him away for life by Thursday. Wow. And I thought, you know, normally we watch Law and Order, CSI, there's a lot more to a murder trial than what I just experienced. So, I wanted to talk about that. And at the time, Aaron had just watched a little documentary called The Staircase about uh, you know, Michael Peterson and all that. So, Aaron's like, "I think you want to start a podcast." And I was like, "Yeah." So, we started the Generation Y. And we cover mysteries, murders, wrongful

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convictions. Uh, we used to do a lot more mysterious stuff. We used to do a lot more conspiracies, but people like the murder, so we focus on that. We're

favorite conspiracy theories

sick species. Yes, we are. What's your favorite conspiracy? I have a lot, but the one that comes to mind is the Titanic switcheroo. So, the Titanic had a sister ship called the Olympic, I think. And they say that the Titanic didn't sink. It was actually the Olympic and they they switched the identities for insurance things or some I don't even remember how it's so dumb. But that's a good one. And that one's kind of fun because nobody's getting hurt. No, there's no hate involved. It's just this random weird idea that I had no idea existed before I covered the case. And I've never heard of that. Yeah, there's a whole documentary on it

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and they talk about like the port holes, the number of port holes that were on each ship and you know that one's fun. Are there any that you believe in like that you buy into? Well, the one I buy into uh or the ones that I buy into aren't exactly mainstream ones, but I absolutely believe like the sugar industry is lobbying our governments and food industry to put sugar in everything. Yeah. without concern for our health. That doesn't feel like a conspiracy. That just feels like a conspiracy. I think that's just fact. I think that's just living in America, baby. I know. It is really scary and it does make me want to like run away from reality. And I feel like, well, this was going to be a horrible segue. I was going to say, and that's why I love ghost stories, but that's not that's not true because we do believe in ghost stories. So, it's not running from reality. It's just um maybe trying to run into a different plane or dimension or a reality that exists within our reality that we don't quite

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understand. Yeah. And if nothing else, it's a little bit more lighthearted. And for the most part, if I do believe in paranormal, I I don't believe that it can harm me, but the episode I'm going to be covering tonight is something that does harm somebody. So, I mean, I don't know the details of your story, but I know we picked some things that are a bit dark and then have hauntings. This

killer curse (the death of Christopher Case)

case has been covered all over the internet. And so, I always I mean, Aaron and I when we cover a case, we're we try to be as factual and evidence-based as possible, but when it comes to the paranormal, it's like, how do you vet this evidence? is if you know how do you claim that this is absolutely true but this story has been covered in newspapers. This story has been documented. So this man did exist. This man did die and it is a mystery that

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surrounds it and the story behind it is out there. But I've kind of just taken uh you know assimilated and coalesed all of the information I could about it and I'm going to present that. Whether or not every single detail is true or vetted is hard because again we're talking about curses. We're talking about ghosts. We're talking about things that can't really prove in the court of law I guess. So I just want to put that disclaimer out there. Actually, I will say there is one case that we covered, the case of the Greenbryer ghost, Zona Hester Shu, and it is like the only historical case where a ghost came back to help convict her murderer. I've heard of this. Yeah, like it's a legal case. I just don't ever want to be like talking about Bigfoot and then somebody give me a fact check on that. I'll be like, but the case I'm doing tonight, there is a man and his name is Christopher Casease.

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Last name is Case and he is 35 years old. This is in 1991. He is in the music industry and I think he lives out in like New York, New Jersey. It's all the same to me. Sorry. I live in the flyover states, but he lands a job at a radio station in Seattle, Washington. So, he moves across the country and he has a very unique sense of musical taste. He likes the old Egyptian music, like the old archaic. Wow. So anytime, you know, in a movie when you see the pyramids and they have that like, you know, kind of weird sitar sound, he's really into that specific type of music. How does one get into that? That is my question. I don't know. He's really into this. He's uh he's single uh or I guess he had a girlfriend, but u maybe long distance.

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He's just hanging out with his buddies. He's living his life. And it's said that he is invited to a party, whether this is a work-related party or just a personal party. It's not really specified here, but he goes to his friend's party and he's having a good time. Everyone's drinking and there is a woman at this party and this woman is older than him. She's probably in her 40s or 50s. They start talking and she starts talking a little bit about occulty things and Egyptian things. and he goes, "Well, I love Egyptian music." She's like, "So do I." And they have this like connection, you know, about this very obscure niche thing that they have a common interest over. So, it's said that they are talking all night, hitting it off. But Christopher, he's not really interested that way. He is just having a good time talking to this woman. Sure. and he, you know, has

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somebody that he's, it's always said that it's his girlfriend, but, you know, it's never really painted clearly like this woman was his permanent partner. And so, he's talking to this woman, it's getting the end of the night, everyone's drunk, and she's like, "Hey, you should come back to my place. You know, maybe we can listen to some Egyptian music or whatever it is." Wink wink. Yeah. And he's like, "Uh, I I think I'm good. I'm going to go home." She's like, "No, no, you need to come back to my place." She's very, very forward. And he's like, "I I have to work in the morning, and again, he's just moved across country, gotten this job, so maybe he wants to make sure that he's on time, whatever." And it said that she does not take this rejection very well. She says, "Well, all that stuff I've been telling you tonight is because I'm a witch and I'm going to put a curse on you and you're going to die by the end of the week." Oh my gosh. Christopher's like,

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"What? I'm out of here." But she, according to everyone at the party, according to Chris, this happened. She put a curse on him or claimed she did. Did you ever see the movie Drag Me to Hell? No, no. Okay. Well, sorry. There's uh uh Sam Ramy and his brother do the Evil Dead movies and they hadn't put out an Evil Dead movie in a while and then uh they put out a movie called Drag Me to Hell and it's about a woman who works as a loan officer and she denies somebody alone and the woman puts a curse on her and says you're going to be dead by the end of the week and it's an amazing film and I'm just thinking the same thing about Christopher Case and being told you'll be dead by the end of the week. So Chris goes home. He doesn't think anything of this. He doesn't What a powerful curse that has to be as well like and just the darkness required. Sabrina and I have

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said that we believe in in most things, but like if someone told us that, at least if we were in Christopher Case's boat, I don't think I would think much of it. I'd just be like, "Okay, like that lady had a very emotional response to me not wanting to go over." Yeah. I would be like, "Well, I dodged the bullet there." Right. Exactly. Right. what would have happened if we would have started a relationship and broken up later like this is not not a good thing. So he goes home, he doesn't think much of it, but during that week he starts waking up at night and he hears, you know, something fall and he is jerked awake and he's like, "What the hell is that?" And then he starts hearing whispers and he gets up and he's walking around. He's like, "Is that somebody in my apartment?" I mean, what's going on here? It's freaking him out. And he's also new here, so it's like potentially he's like, "This is a new place. I haven't been here very very long. Maybe this is like a typical weird thing that happens here. Yeah. And you

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know, I'm assuming this is an apartment complex. You know, maybe you're hearing your neighbors. You know, I don't know. Yeah. So, the second night, he actually is awoken by these whispers. They're so loud. Oh my gosh. And he's walking around and it said that he sees something dash across his hallway and he thinks it's a person now. So he's freaked out and he runs down the hallway and he's looking for an intruder in his house and there's no no one there and it's like said that like you know the person dashed into the bathroom. So it's like he can't escape from the bathroom. He goes in the bathroom there's no no one there. So he calls up his friend. He's like there's somebody in my apartment I think but there's nobody here. and his friend uh her name is Sammy and it said that she's into Wiccan and some types of stuff, but she's like, "I don't know what to tell you, but it sounds like you're having a like a

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poltergeist or something, right?" And he's freaking out because two nights of no sleep now because he's been waking up. Third night again, all this happens and he's calling his friends and Sammy, calling multiple people and telling them, right? I was at a party, this woman cursed me. I'm now he's like believing in the curse. Yeah. Yeah. Or you at least start to question yourself, right? Question your reality. Like, is this connected? It has to be. And again, he's in his 30s and it's said that he works out all the time. He's in good shape. You know, it's like I probably wouldn't want to fight this guy. He could probably take me. So, it's not somebody who gets scared very easily. And he is now believing that there are people that he can't see in his apartment and whether they're shadow people or just things that he sees on his periphery. But he's he's freaking out. He's on the phone with his friend

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Sammy and she's like, "You need to call the police." He goes, "What the hell am I going to tell the police?" Right? there's no one here. And he's like, and I'm not going to tell them that some woman cursed me because that sounds even crazier than, you know, there's somebody living in my house. So, this is just days after this party he went to. It said that he goes to a local bookstore and pretty much asks for the occult section and says, "I need to buy some books or something. I need to figure out how to protect myself." and he purchases a bunch of books on witchcraft craft and the occult, crucifixes, all this stuff. Anything he can get his hands on, he's like, I will take it all. I'm sure this bookstore owner is like, you're not going to learn overnight how to do this, right? And also, I know a lot of people that practice witchcraft and curses are not really their thing. But that's really I

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just wonder, you know, what kind of magic magical spell was actually put on him. Well, cuz we've also talked about this a lot and like anytime we've covered curses, there's this belief that a curse especially like this dark takes a toll on the person who's doing it as well. Like we've read stories where like the person who was believed to put the curse on someone was like losing their hair and like started to like age quicker and it's part of like selling their soul a little bit. Yeah. It's it's kind of like uh as above so below and what you put out does come back to you. So he's freaking out and his friend Sammy is trying to call him and he's not answering. Again, this is early 90s landlines, no cell phones. So, he's not answering. She calls the police for a welfare check and they show up. It's claimed that the door is locked. They

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don't see anything that's out of the ordinary. They leave. During this time, Sammy gets a call, I guess, on her answering machine or something from Chris saying, "I don't think I'm going to make it. I think this is it." Oh my god. I can't imagine what it was like to receive that phone call. Cuz it's it's also like if someone is suffering mentally or physically, you as a friend can be like, "Okay, well, I'm going to bring you to the hospital." But when someone's encountering a potential curse or poltergeist, and you have no experience, you would feel so helpless and no one believes you. They just think you're crazy. Yeah. And it said that the curse, the poltergeist, the possession, whatever you want to call it, had ramped up. And so he wakes up one night and he has sleep paralysis. Can't move. And whatever this entity is is above him and strangling him. And it's claimed that he can't breathe. This

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entity goes away. And he claims that he has bruising around his throat that is left from this attack, this physical attack. My god. And he's again telling everybody about this, but he leaves this final message for his friend Sammy. And she calls the cops again, says, "You need to go check on him." But she's just called. So this is kind of they're like So she waits, calls again in the morning, and says, "Please check on my friend." And they go and they get the landlord or whomever to open the door. And reports are a little different here, but it said that they find Christopher Casease dead in his apartment. And the Seattle Times, I think it is, they say that he's found clothed in his bathtub, not moving. There are other versions of this of where his body is found, but they find him. And the police see lines of salt

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around every window and every door. You know what that means? Yep. Keeps the bad spirits out. Trying. He tried. Candles, crucifixes everywhere. Oh my gosh. But for the most part, the cops don't see anything like no sign of struggle, no breaking of the doors or anything like the place is locked up. So no sign of force entry, no sign of anyone else in the place. And he doesn't appear to be beaten, stabbed, or murdered. So they take his body to the corner and you know they have an autopsy done and they say he died from essentially a heart attack or myocarditis. Jeez, do you think he was scared to death? Well, that's the thing is why does your heart stop? Now, there's a difference between cardiac arrest and myocarditis because myocarditis is inflammation of the heart um after you've had an infection such as

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you know COVID. COVID will cause myocarditis and that will cause the heart to maybe pump in an irregular rhythm or the muscle will grow, the tissues will grow. My like heart hurts just thinking about this. So the family and friends are thinking we don't buy this because we know what was happening a week before his death and he was freaking out but it said that there wasn't any drugs in his system. Toxicology reports came back clean. Have I seen the autopsy report? No. Right. Yeah, because that's what I mean, not that this could happen in the span of just one week's time, but it did make me curious about like mold. Yeah. Carbon monoxide, but again, like that doesn't really explain the strangling and and all of that. Yeah. And I'm thinking drugs myself. I'm thinking you're on a meth binge or something. You can, you know, put a lot of stress on yourself. You can hallucinate, get paranoid. You said he worked out a lot. Did Could

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steroids cause some type of like mental breakdown? I mean, there's the the rumor or the the thing of roid rage where you can become very emotional, but I would think that would be more of a suicidal tendency or something like that as opposed to just paranoia and hallucinations. Now that said, you know, myocarditis can be caused by an infection and then that infection will inflame the heart. Seattle does have ticks. So you have Lyme disease. There are weird parasites that cats carry. And I'm like, at the party he was at, was there a cat? I don't know. I'm trying to think of but again this would be so bizarre because so I was actually interviewing a toxicologist the other day and and she made a good point when I was talking to her about like a specific case which is that there usually has to be more than one case right like we saw it with COVID we've we've seen it with so many different things that have gone through as like epidemics and pandemics

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in recent past where it's like it doesn't happen to just one person you're looking for a pattern so if it were a weird response to Lyme disease or something that's being carried on cats. Wouldn't there be more than one? Wouldn't there be other people that are having the same reaction and then it's investigated as a whole instead of just this one-off case of a man who was cursed one week prior experiencing all this? I mean, I think we're trying to do all of these like rational explanations, but I'm I'm already I believe it was he was cursed. Yeah. And there is the placebo effect. And if somebody says you're cursed and you start having weird things happen to you, you start believing it. And then mind over matter, you start creating or manifesting these things yourself, whether or not he was cursed. He created the curse in in his own mind. Well, that's actually a good interesting

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perspective because we've talked a lot and there's a big conversation in the paranormal world. We're like, are there some paranormal encounters that are just manifested by humans putting energy into it? Like, can we create, you know, there's this whole case of Conjuring Phillip where this group in Toronto created a spirit based on group think? Like, could that happen? Well, and even in today's time, paranormal researchers Greg and Dana Newkerk basically took that to the streets. They just did a a tour this past year and they had ventriloquy dolls made of themselves and had at the end of the show everyone go and try to project some sort of energy or thought onto these dolls and within a few shows the dolls started to behave and like do weird things and they went from these inanimate objects to these things that maybe are holding a bunch of people's energy and are suddenly now like what we would deem as haunted dolls. Yeah, it's wild. So it is weird to think about like how much power

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thoughts and energy has and how that interacts with our space and other people and things around us because if you wish someone harm perhaps that will actually happen to them. Yeah. And I I think of the Black Mirror episode uh most hated in the nation or something where it's like everyone tweets you know so and so die and then you know it ends up being like you know wasps or something you know mechanical wasps that go and kill them. But at the same time I mean some people will be pushed to suicide because they are being harassed and attacked so much. And I think there is something to, you know, the power of a group psyche to influence things. And uh what is it? Not group uh group term. Well, it's uh it's when it's like if all of us saw the same ghost in the room, you know. Oh, isn't it just a group hallucination? Yeah. But there's a different group psychosis. Psychosis. That was it. Yeah. And I'm wondering,

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you know, not that Christopher Case had group psychosis, but he definitely was influenced and was having a hard time. And I just think a 35year-old guy who is in pretty good health, how does he die from myocarditis at that age unless there was some crazy pre-existing condition like Lyme disease or something else? But all of those things have other symptoms, too. And myocarditis is something that kills over time, not instantly. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Although it does make me wonder if there was something in his like if this was something that was building up over time and there was something he was exposed to during his move in this new environment where he did have this sort of adverse reaction and it was the tipping point for what would maybe still have happened to him 2 3 months down the road, 5 years down the road. but something specific to this place. I'm still team curse. Team curse. I'm trying

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to channel Justin and figure out like are there non-p paranormal possibilities? Well, and when I was researching this case, I went down a whole like what causes myocarditis and what are the symptoms and da da da da and it's not something that will just cause problems so quickly. Nor normally it's you can live with it. you know, you can live a long life with it. I I just I'm trying to look at all of the explanations, but at the end of the day, most of them actually don't fit. Unless you think of, yeah, he was scared to death. And people can, you know, you can frighten somebody. I mean, I wouldn't want to run up on my almost 80-year-old mom and freak her out. She might she might fall down and have a heart attack. So, yeah. Now I'm thinking about this woman and who she is and she was set off so easily, right? Like how many other people did she curse. Was this a pattern? Did it happen to other people?

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But we only know the story of Christopher Case. Okay. Also, one more thing, and maybe this is me getting like extremely paranormal after trying to take the skeptical seat. Who is this woman? Did anyone else at the party actually know her? Was she invited? Is she a person at all? because it sounds really strange that there would be this perfect little meat cute of someone with this really niche interest of his and it almost makes me think that she herself is the poltergeist is this sort of demon and she prayed on him there and he was always whether he went home with her or not this was always going to happen he was targeted he was found at the party and she latched on to him and now here's a conspiracy she was like a succubus demon who just appeared she was the entity she's already a paranormal Oh, you know what this reminds me of? Did Did you ever see VHS, that movie? Yeah. A long, long time ago, there's one like segment of it that just sticks with me and it's this girl at a party and she's wearing a long white dress and she's like stalking the guy and she keeps like saying, "I like you." And she like shows

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up in his hotel room and like for sure is a ghost and attacks him. Well, I mean, it's just like the drag me to hell situation. It's just this thing. But I I just assume Christopher Casease got a little taste of what women have to go through at most parties anyway. So, you know, right? An unfortunate truth. Well, that's my story. I hope you enjoyed it. And it was I've never heard of this. It's I mean, tragic, fascinating, and clearly still an unsolved mystery. I'm so curious now like with the family, what story did they settle on? Have they done any more research or found the woman? like, "Oh, I I have so many questions." I would go down a rabbit hole on that one. Yeah. Seriously. Wow. Dang. I cannot believe we've never heard of that. I know. I just assumed you guys had covered it. I'm like I'm like they have hundreds of cases. I'm sure they've done this one. Wow. Well, that's the thing. Karin and I were just talking about this yesterday where and you guys

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have been doing this for even longer, but we've been doing our podcast for 8 years and we're still discovering so many stories we've never heard of. Like we could truly do this for eternity. Yeah. You know, and it's unfortunate to say that because unfortunately murders happen, deaths happen, and for Sabrina and I, many of those result in sort of like the stories of the paranormal, and for you guys, cases that make the news

the Gunter Hotel murder and haunting

and and have a lot of mystery and intrigue around them. But yeah, no, it's it's endless. There's so many things that are just so strange. Well, we have a murder, a mystery, and a haunting. Tonight, we are going to take you to downtown San Antonio, Texas, to a grand old hotel with polished floors, southern charm, and a very morbid history. It is called the Sheran Gunter Hotel. A hotel where something so terrible, so brutal, and so baffling happened. A hotel with a room so haunted that no maid dares enter

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alone. This is room 636. The room where in 1965 a heinously gruesome crime was committed. A crime that left more questions than answers. There was a man who checked in under an alias, a missing woman, a man slipping away with a hefty suitcase, and a room left soaked with blood. Now, some 60 years later, this mystery remains, and so too does a haunting. This is the mystery of Albert Knox and the haunting of room 636 at the Sheran Gunter Hotel. Is it supposed to be 666, but they just couldn't put six? They like renamed it. It's like there's no 13th floor. Exactly. Yeah. Similar to your story, Justin, this is also reported in newspapers and the murder part at least is like factual. But we'll start we'll we'll give a little history of how this hotel came to be. So the story begins

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with a man with Jonathan Jot Gunther. He was born November 14th, 1845 in North Carolina. And he was one of 11 kids. So he had nine brothers, one sister, huge family, but he was a very motivated kid. He did not want to get lost in the shuffle of his siblings. And so at 15 years old in 1861, when the Civil War broke out, he really wanted to enlist, but he was too young by one year cuz you could enlist when you were 16. So he was 15 at the time. He couldn't enlist, but his four older brothers did enlist. And then the next year when he turned 16, Jaw enlisted as a drummer boy. He was very motivated to be a part of something bigger than just him. And he really wanted to build this empire and to really enrich his life financially, to find a lot of financial freedom and success, and to to be a name people will remember, which obviously there's some success there because now there's a hotel named after him. Yeah. Yep. So when the war ended, he became a lawyer and then he met his wife, his beloved

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wife that he married, Roxanna, and they soon welcomed a baby girl into the world. And that is where kind of like the beginning of his legacy and his wealth grew. I'm pretty sure he also there was a town he formed like a town named after him in Texas, but I don't know if the town still exists or not. He definitely found a a lot of success in was a wealthy person. So I wouldn't be shocked if there were many other places with his family name associated with them. But there's something else also associated with Jot Gunter and that is a fatal shooting that happened sometime around 1884 and the shooting was Jot Gunter killing someone. So, he was actually never prosecuted in the crime, which is a bit suspect, but perhaps, you know, I don't know how crimes were convicted back then and how investigations worked in the 1880s. It sounds like he was pretty successful, so maybe they didn't want to mess with Here's $2. Leave me

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alone. Forget this happened. $2. But alas, he continued on the goal of building an empire, forgetting about the person that he just murdered. and he saw a lot of potential in Texas and so he followed the trends of the railroads being built in Texas and he was like, "Oh, all the paths seem to be leading to San Antonio or that San Antonio is going to be this big place." So he became a key investor on a hotel that was built in San Antonio. And by 1901, he relocated to San Antonio, Texas along with floods and floods of other people. So he was right. It was a hot spot where people started to to come and businesses started to build and it was soon a very booming city. And by 1901, San Antonio actually was the largest city in all of Texas. So it took him nearly 8 years to build this hotel that he was an investor in. And it began as a small lodging structure and then it was converted into the tallest building in San Antonio. But unfortunately for Jot, he never got to see the completion of this hotel because he passed away on July 19th, 1907. And then two years later on

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November 20th, 1909, the eightstoried 301 room hotel opened, the Gunter Hotel named after Jot Gunter himself. And so his dream lived on, right? He wanted to build this hotel. And here it was, even though he maybe could only see it from the afterlife. Yeah. The hotel underwent a few expansions and renovations. They added a few stories, I think three stories by 1926. And then the Gunter Hotel hosted also many historical events. So this is super cool if you love history like us. Yeah, there's some cool history nerd nerdy facts. That's the thing about paranormal stories and I guess what we cover on Two Girls One Ghost. A large majority of each episode is history. Yeah. And then you get into all of the spooky stories with Aaron and I. He will give most of the background and all of those kind of details where I'm just like get to the story. So, I want the mystery. But it's it's interesting cuz sometimes you'll learn something in history where you're like,

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"Oh, wait. Is that the answer? Is that is that what's like being pulled through to solve this mystery?" It's interesting. I can't remember what episode it was, but there was like some topic I was covering and the like main guy I was talking about was obsessed with asparagus. Like he wrote books about asparagus. And so like I became obsessed with asparagus. So, I spent like 10 minutes of the episode just talking about asparagus because I was like, I need to know why he loved it. And then I was like, I get it. And then it became like a history of asparagus podcast. And I'd be lying if I didn't listen to ancient Egyptian music for about 2 days like in the background while I was cleaning. So, it's like what's you have to channel these people. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Okay. So, the hotel it became a site for many historical events. It was the administrative office for the US Army during the Mexican-American War. It was also the birthplace of the US Automobile Association. US Army officers would also spend a lot of time here. The iconic blues musician Robert Johnson was also a

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frequent guest of the hotel and he always requested room 414 and he would spend hours and days and weeks there just composing music. And similarly following in his footsteps, John Melanchamp also would rent out that same room, room 414. It's like where all of the creative music genius comes from. And he recorded his song right behind me in that very same room. Interesting. So, a lot of rich history in this place. It's a hotel of elegance, just as Gunter had hoped it would be. But there's also something quite dark lurking in this hotel. A haunting past that outshines the memory of these sweet, sweet musical melodies. A murder. On Sunday, February 8th, 1965, the reputation of the Gunter Hotel changed forever. It was a regular morning at the hotel and the maid, Maria Louisa Aguera, was going about the sixth floor cleaning each room. She reached the door of room 636. She knocked. She

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heard no response. So she inserted the room key and with a turn, she heard that familiar click and turned the handle, opened the door, and what she saw changed her life and the course of history forever. Maria at first wasn't sure what she was seeing. She remembers how vibrant this color was. Bright red everywhere, like the room had been painted, a terrible, terrible paint job. But that couldn't be red paint all over the room. But that is when her brain focused in on a figure. She was not alone in the room. No, there standing at the foot of the bed was a man holding something in his hands staring at the bed. And that is when the pieces come together. This was not paint. It was blood everywhere. And this man was standing there holding a blood soaked sheet staring at the bed. As it clicked, the man became aware of his presence. and he did the most terrifying haunting thing he could have done. He looks at

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her, puts a finger to his lips and goes, "Sh." Then he grabs this like suitcase, sprints out of the room, and Maria screams. Insane though that Maria actually got to escape, right? Like the the fact that she got the opportunity to just be told to be silent about what she saw and was let go. Well, clearly this man was like interrupted and so he was more concerned about him getting away than her. Yeah. So, Maria screamed. This man ran. The police were called and almost immediately they spoke to Maria. They investigated the room, room 636. There was so much blood, but usually this amount of blood would be accompanied by a body. Yet, no body was found. So, according to hotel records, a man named Albert Knox checked into room 636 on February 6th, 1965. So, just 2 days prior to this crime scene being found. Albert Knox was described as a

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blonde man in his late 30s. He had spent the last two days at the hotel, sometimes in the company of a tall, blonde, sophisticated looking woman. He was otherwise unassuming until, of course, the horror scene that was discovered in his room. Police were certain that with this amount of blood, someone had died. They scoured the room and the hotel. Nobody. They found empty bottles of wine strewn about. Small bloody footprints staining the hotel room floor. Remnants of shakuderie, olives and cheese were on top of a table. Clothing belonging to a woman was left behind. Undergarments, nylon stockings, things that a woman would not have left without. They found strands of long blonde hair, lipstick stained cigarette butts, and receipts for San Antonio trunk and gift company. But perhaps the most damning piece of evidence was the shell from a 22 caliber gun on the bed. And of course, the ungodly amounts of blood. Yeah, the bed was soaked. The chair was drenched. There were trails of blood coming and

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going from room to the bathroom, back to the room again. They knew someone had died. The only problem was there was no body and the man, Albert Knox, had made a run for it. So, they were pretty sure that the guy was Albert who took off. Yes, it was definitely him. But for the police, the problem was that Albert Knox was an alias. So, he had checked into this room under a fake name. And so, when he ran, he was a ghost. They were like, "How do we find him?" Yeah. Uh, well, luckily for them, he was also kind of dumb because he used a different name, another alias. So, his first alias was Albert Knox. A couple days later, he used alias Albert Cox. Literally the same day. So, like February 8th, he ran and then he found another hotel like in San Antonio and checked in under the name Albert Cox. So unoriginal, right? So, the police were like, "All right, we're coming over." and they raced over

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to the hotel room. And when they arrived, they wanted to obviously catch him and take him into custody, but he had fatally wounded himself. So, he ended up dying and they weren't given the opportunity to question him about this murder. So, they kind of apprehended him, but not really, right? Yeah. Sure. It's clear he was guilty of something. Yeah. People don't be acting that way when they're uh leaving another murder scene. No. No. And also, it makes me wonder like did he kind of want to get caught? Because why would you use a name so similar? I think he was in panic mode and like maybe he forgot the first alias that he used. Like it makes me wonder if he forgot that he called himself Albert Knox and thought he was using the same name. Right. I always default like I never applied malice when incompetence and stupidity is so prevalent. And I just think he was dumb, you know. Yeah. I also think he was like panicked because and and as we'll talk I really do feel like a lot of this was premeditated and when we hear about his

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history there's potential like this wasn't the first time but it was the first time he was caught and so he panicked and ran and didn't really know what to do and then he was like this is the end of the road. So now we're left with like all of these questions. The police are like who was this man really? What happened in the hotel room? Did he kill the blonde woman he was seen with? Where is her body? All of these questions are unanswered. But the police were able to identify the man. I'm not sure exactly how they figured it out, but they knew Albert Knox was an alias and they discovered his real name was Walter Emer. He was a 37year-old unemployed man with a very sorted past. And there is some content warning here for sexual violence and potential other crimes. But similar to Jot Gunter, Emer did have hopes and dreams. Unlike Gunter though, Emer took another path, a darker, more sinister path. And as he traveled along it, he left behind him a trail of hurt and blood. Walter Emer was

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born on May 24th, 1926. His beginnings are not quite clear, but he is of Russian descent, and it seems that his parents either put him up for adoption or like his mom remarried. Either way, he kind of moved around a lot and didn't have a solid home growing up. And it seemed that he was a very difficult child filled with rage. He got wrapped up in a life of crime and very quickly became a violent, dangerous man. When police discovered his true identity, they found a long record. Theft, violence, rape. So 11 years prior to the bloody scene at the Gunter Hotel, Walter Emer was arrested after sexually assaulting a young woman. He was sentenced to 2 years for his crime. And I even found like the old police record of his arrest. So what happened after his release in 1965 is unclear, but given that he had checked into the hotel room under an alias, I do feel like Walter Emer spent time traveling to different places, checking

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in under aliases, doing who knows what type of crimes, picking up women, possibly harming them, running, and then doing it all over again in different cities. So, had the maid not walked in on Walter Emer on that tragic day of February 8th, 1965, who knows how many other crimes Walter Emer may have committed. And who knows how many he committed prior to this day? Because part of the clue trail that the police followed from the crime scene, they found that receipt that was to the trunk store. And so, they went to the store to find out what did he purchase. And they found that he had purchased a massive suitcase. And the way he purchased it was actually with a check under the name of his stepfather who one month prior in January of 1965 had mysteriously gone missing. Oh god. So, like Emer stole his checks, potentially did something worse as well

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to his stepfather and was using his checks to buy suitcases to potentially move bodies in. Well, and that's was like the the peak of serial killers was 60s and 70s. Right. Right. Yeah. And very sadly, we have no idea still today. It's a mystery what exactly happened on that evening, February 8th, 1965, in room 636. No one knows where the body of that woman was disposed. And I know technically they're or who she was. Yeah. Yeah. It's all such a mystery. Some people do theorize that she was a call girl perhaps because you know like she it's not like she came with a bunch of luggage and was checked in like as a girlfriend or partner or something like it was just her and what she had on her at the time. But cops were informed that the day before the murder, Albert Knox in his alias, he visited the local Sears department store in search of a meat grinder. And when the employee informed

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him that they actually did not have in stock the size of meat grinder he was looking for, he became super enraged and just like stormed off. Yeah. You don't forget that encounter with someone at a department store. No. And also like why do you need a massive meat grinder in downtown San Antonio? Right. So they were like okay presumably this was premeditated. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Unless he came in and said, "Hey, I own a restaurant where I make sausages and I need this thing and can you order one for me? You don't come in and demand one and then get pissed off." You know, that's not how that works, right? And also like it was clear that it was almost like a timebound thing, right? Like he needed this meat grinder right now. Super super quick turnaround. That's why he was so upset, which like you know if you owned a restaurant, would you really need a meat grinder that short of turnaround? Maybe. I don't know. But uh the maid Maria, it's thought that maybe she interrupted him

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when he was attempting to clean up and dispose of the body and that the box or the suitcase that Maria saw him like running rushing out of the room with actually had the remains of the woman inside. And then he ran, but obviously not far enough because when cops closed in on him, he did end up taking his life to evade capture. But this has remained one of the biggest murder mysteries in San Antonio. There's a missing woman, her identity still unknown. And then days after this horrific murder, staff at the Gunter Hotel began seeing and hearing really odd things. And more specifically, they began to see the spectral shape of a woman passing in their peripheral vision. So when they would turn to look and look at this woman who kept like kind of just passing right next to them, there would be no one. they'd be completely alone. And the majority of sightings were all around room 636. So, ever since this horrific

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murder, the room has been the site for multiple haunting reports. Visions of this woman who's wearing white, lights turning on and off, the feeling of being watched. One guest even reported seeing a ghostly woman holding her hands out to them with this sort of like vacant lost gaze, which is so sad because if this is the woman, it seems like her spirit is very confused and searching for answers. And it's like, can you tell me why I'm here or what's happening to me? Which I hate hearing that. It's so sad. Yeah. Multiple investigators and paranormal enthusiasts have investigated the now infamously haunted room 636. And one of the investigators from the San Antonio Paranormal Investigators group was actually physically attacked in this room and another person was shown violent visions of the crime. That is difficult too cuz it's like and Justin you kind of briefly brought this up but when something is put in your mind do you then fill in the gaps in like in your imagination or was a spirit trying

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to show what happened trying to be like hey solve my murder. This is what happened. Then there's also this question of like does someone know something? Is the answer to this murder somewhere? because the general manager received this really heavy envelope and it was addressed to the Gunter with no return address and then instead of the return address were just the following numbers 1 1965 which was the year that the murder took place and then when they opened the envelope there was this like huge old room key and it was the room key to room 636. It was like someone was trying to hint at knowing so creepy. Yeah, but like that's another mystery. like who sent this and why and what do they know? Yeah. I mean I I guess it's could have been somebody who rented the room later and then stole the key, but Sure. It seems to be very specific. Yeah. And I would hope that or I would just assume that one he you know it said there was a a 22 caliber shell or something. I would

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hope that he killed this person quickly. She didn't suffer. I hope so. And then you know I don't know if you can run off with a big old trunk. So maybe he had removed her body and was in process of removing her because I don't know if you can just run off with the big trunk. So maybe that trunk was disposed of prior to the the maid coming in and catching him. But if he's just standing there with a bloody sheet and everything, it sounds like he's kind of just ruminating and getting off on what he's done. Right. Right. Yeah. Like he done most of the cleanup but not all of it. Yeah. And in the arrest record that Sabrina had found, they did have his weight and he was like 170ome pounds. So it's not like it's not like he was this like massive muscular like he was like 5'9 or something like it's not like he could

more Gunter Hotel hauntings

easily to your point Justin take a trunk with a full dead body and just casually stroll out the hotel. It it would require some probably immense physical

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effort on his part. Yeah. Just like most people. So, the Gunter Hotel is well known now because of this tragic event, but there are other ghosts and more ghostly activity that happens at the Gunter Hotel. It is said that room 414 is haunted by multiple spirits, specifically Robert Johnson, the blues musician who wrote music here. And like Krin mentioned, in 2009, John Melanchamp went to stay at the Gunter Hotel. And when he got there, he requested to check into room 414. And in that room when he was writing his own music, he did feel the company of Robert Johnson and felt very inspired. And then I love this. There are two female spirits who are believed to be of the flapper era. They're dressed in flapper dresses, probably like from the 1920s. And one is seen wearing a long white dress, and she roams the upper floors of the hotel. Staff is lovingly nicknamed her Ingrid, and the other is nicknamed Peggy. But

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here's what, okay, you might think, "Oh, two female flapper ghosts. They must be friends haunting like ghoul friends haunting this hotel together." But no, they hate each other. They hate each other and they quarrel all the time. And like Ingrid has the upper floors and Peggy has like a different part of the hotel like the lobby and downstairs. But occasionally they'll intersect and you don't want to be there when they do because apparently like the energy shifts. They get into like an altercation. They fight which I love. It's a ghost fight. So typical, right? So typical. Oh my god. Turf. Don't come up here. Exactly. That's the EVP I want to capture. I want to hear what they're fighting about. What is the bickered argument? Real Ghostwives of the of San Antonio. Oh my gosh, that is a show people would pay that instantly. But okay, so when they are separate, I

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think that they are enjoying their time there because there is a staff member Christina Richards who she was getting pretty irritated at one point because there was a couple who she was waiting on who kept saying like, "We see a ghost. We see a ghost." and she's like, "Oh my god, these people are just trying to get out of paying their bill or whatever." And so she she was like annoyed, but then not long after she sees the ghost and it's Ingred. It's the spirit that they call Ingred. And she was walking through the hotel tossing her dress around, twirling, just having a great time because probably Peggy wasn't around. And you might be able to see Peggy or Ingrid or many of the other spirits that are supposedly haunting the Gunter Hotel. It is still fully operational today. And room 636 has now been divided into two separate rooms in an attempt to lessen the paranormal activity, which I feel like that's probably gonna like make it worse because now it's like instead of just one room with hauntings, here's two. Well, and now you have two more opportunities for other people to come in and like shake up the energy. They're

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just doubling their profits cuz they know people are going to rent out both rooms and one. It's probably a twoyear wait to get to that one room. Now it's Yeah, I know. Probably. I totally get wanting to rent out a haunted hotel room, but there is something kind of disturbing about it being haunted because there was such a brutal murder in it. Yeah, I stayed uh this was on a business trip. I did not pay to stay here. Um but it was in the uh Hotel Dell Coronado in San Diego. San Diego. Yeah. And I wanted to stay in the haunted room, but of course they're like there's like a two-year wait like you're not getting in there. Um, and I don't even remember the story about it now if there was a murder in that room or not. But I did stay in another room that they said this whole wing of the hotel people, you know, report things. And um, I was staying in that hotel room and, you know, nothing happened. Nothing happened. You got to open yourself up. You got to believe that something will and then maybe maybe I'll experience

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something. I want to believe. We'll take you on a paranormal investigation cuz not to toot our own horns, but we do feel like somehow we get lucky and there is a lot of activity that happens around us. Yeah. And our approach is very like we're not come at me ghosts, demons. We're very like respectful. We treat them it we like to treat it like we're walking into a stranger's house and it's like we'd like to get to know you. What do you want to share with us? If you don't want to share anything, all good. We'll just hang out. What is it like? ghost adventures where he like antagonizes the ghost. Come at me, bro. Come at me. Yeah, we don't we don't do that. We treat we treat the spirits like stray dogs. We're we're just like really gentle with our approach. We just sit there and let them come to us. And so far, so good. Yeah, we've had a lot happen. I have a question for you because most of these ghost stories are from the past and you'll hear like some

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little girl in a white dress from like the 1800s and come play with me. Yeah. You know, but where are the ghosts of the the guy in the affliction shirt that's saying hold my beer? Where where are those ghosts? How come they don't exist? I think they're here. I know. To your point, it's like why is there no like glowing cell phone? just like phantomly scrolling Instagram in the middle of the night next to your bed. I'm just waiting for like, you know, when the modern day go hits the the market as opposed to like these, you know, I mean, even even 1960s, that's pretty close. You know, that's that's not that's not too far away. Well, it's interesting cuz it's like there's so many different possibilities that Karin and I over the years have pontificated about and hypothesized that the paranormal actually is. And like sometimes I'm like, is it a weird glitch where it's not even a haunting that you're experiencing, but you're experiencing like a moment in time where timelines blur? Yeah. And there's one story, and I

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can't remember like the specifics, but this person was at like an old castle visiting and doing a tour when he saw like two men in period clothing standing by the fireplace and he was like, "This is odd." But then he saw the two men turn and look at him and they seemed just as confused at seeing him. So it's like back in whatever time period that was happening were these two men standing at the fireplace when they saw a strange man in weird clothing and they're like what? Yeah. They saw you and what was that? A strawberry sweater. Be like tomato. Tomato. Yeah. I mean they would be like what are you wearing? And and I wonder, you know, there is like the time loop thing of somebody, you know, the woman just walking down the hall, you know, forever aimlessly and she don't even notice you as opposed to what you just described where it's like the the timelines cross over. Or they say in Poltergeist it's, you know,

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maybe a teenager who just has a lot of emotions come, you know, going through puberty or whatever, and is manifesting this energy to cause things to fly off

Corinne's current haunting

the walls. I will say I wish that that is what happened every time I PMS. Like I would love my menstrual symptoms to show up as like Matilda like objects floating and being thrown around. That would be awesome. I'll tell you one quick ghost story that's personal that's like kind of happening to me right now and you can be the judge of what it means. But I feel like Sabrina and I have talked a lot about on our show like residual hauntings and what happens when you know like it seems like there's that repeated event where like there's someone walking down the hall and they don't even know that that they're walking down the hall or whatever and it's like what is that? Is that like that person's spirit and they're just completely trapped or is that just like the place remembering a moment that meant something whether it was good or bad for that person? So, I recently moved into a house a couple years ago,

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and my husband and I just had our first child, and I was having a really, really tough time with postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety. And my neighbor told me a few months ago that he saw me in the kitchen at like 11:00 p.m. doing dishes in the window cuz his backyard like looks directly into my kitchen. And I was like, "Oh, interesting." But like I was not downstairs. I I like do not go downstairs in the middle of the night. And so I was like, that's And also your neighbor, just for people who are listening who are like, why was your neighbor staring into your kitchen window late at night? There was a possum attacking his peach tree. Right. So he was trying to catch Yes, he was hunting. He was hunting the possum and his peach tree. So the conversation came up cuz he was showing me, "Haha, I caught the possum. Look at these look at these photos and videos I took of the possum like mid bite of my on my peach tree at 11 p.m. And then he's like, "But you probably saw me out there cuz like I looked over and I saw you doing uh dishes in your in your window. So you probably saw me out there with a flashlight." And I was like, "Oh yeah,

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whatever." Cuz I He's an older man who definitely does not believe in the paranormal. So I was like, "Okay." And then I was like, "That's super freaking weird." And I didn't really know what it meant. And then maybe a week later, my mom was here helping us out and she woke up in the middle of the night and had sleep paralysis. And there was a woman next to her bed that looked just like me just standing and like hovering over her. And so it all goes to this theory that Sabrina and I now have where because my postpartum journey was so awful and I was having such a just like a very like mental emotional battle that a piece of me, a piece of my soul chipped off and now I have to do some sort of like inner work, inner healing journey to try to find that broken piece of me and bring it back because there's me walking around my house in the middle of the night and staring at people apparently creeping people out and I haven't seen her. I haven't seen her, but everyone else is. You got to collect her, bring her back. I know. I'll just

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like open a tub of cookie dough and just wait. Watch for her to like make her way to the kitchen. Girl, I know you're coming. And then I would show up and be like, "Cookie dough. Where's the cookie dough?" All of the ghosts start coming to your house for the cookie dough. Yeah. Well, I mean, if if our soul is the ghost, you know, if our soul won't leave this plane of reality and that is the ghost, then why can't you haunt while you're still alive, right? Yeah. You know, the timeline doesn't should death should not be the We read a listener story that like broke me and healed me at the same time where both of her parents died within like a year of each other. her mom had passed away first and then when her dad passed away she dreamt of her dad and in the dream she was like driving in her car and her dad was sitting in the passenger seat and her first question was like why aren't you with mom like is mom okay and her dad's spirit's response was I'm with her right

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now just like I'm with you right now just like I'm with your mother when she was 3 years old and I'm helping her through her childhood just like I'm like there for you when you were a kid and I'm there for me when I was alive. Like his spirit was everywhere watching people as they were living and I was like, "Wow." Not bound by any one singular timeline. Yeah. There's a a new movie out called Presence. Oh, so good. Karen, I've been telling you about it. I know. Sabrina Sabrina finds a way to bring it up like every other episode. It's not scary at all. It's not I mean I mean there's a scary moment but it's not because of the ghost. It's you know I don't want to spoil or give away anything but the whole timeline doesn't apply thing is definitely in presence. So well this was so much fun. I'm so glad that you got to tell us about the Christopher Case story cuz I've never heard of it and now I feel like a new

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paranormal level has been unlocked in my brain. Can you tell everyone where to find you and your podcast and if there's anything new and exciting coming up that they should look forward to? Um, Generation Y uh WHY all spelled out. It's you can find it anywhere and everywhere. I don't know if there's a platform that doesn't carry us in any timeline, everywhere, all at once. And then uh Gen Y Pod is our website and we're out on Facebook, Instagram, all the regulars. Just search Generation Y all spelled out and you will find us and uh and we have hundreds of episodes. So, binge to your heart's delight. Amazing. Yes. I will definitely be posting your guys's uh links in my show notes and everything to us too. Well, thank you so much. This was so fun. I love it. And when you look for Christopher Case, there's probably other people that will tell the story better than I did. But no, you did an amazing job. I was hooked. This is my request to

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you that when you find other stuff like that in your in your journey, like if there's anything super paranormal, send it our way because this was I can't believe that we'd never heard of this. Mhm. We're employing you as our research assistant, our director of of topics. And we'll send hauntings your way. So, we'll send our ghost to give you a nice gentle haunting to help you a nudge towards being a believer. Yeah. and we will see you on the other side. Very spooky.